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What are your thoughts?
Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Nice longboard, RRS. It looks like a WMD.
Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
Originally posted by LeftBehind
Roy, is it a fact that AlQaeda was a CIA creation?
There's a fair bit on the subject over here:
Al-Qaeda evolved from the Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK) — a mujahideen resistance organization fighting against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s. Osama bin Laden was a founding member of the MAK, along with Palestinian militant Abdullah Yusuf Azzam. The role of the MAK was to channel funds from a variety of sources (including donations from across the Middle East) into training mujahideen from around the world in guerrilla combat, and to transport the combatants to Afghanistan. Bin Laden and the MAK have allegedly been aided by the governments of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and indirectly (and perhaps unknowingly) by the United States, which channeled all of its support via the Pakistani intelligence service, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate. In fact, the Arab contingent in Afghanistan during the latter half of the 1980s was quite small and not generally involved in the fighting, rather limiting its activities to logistics, housing, recruitment and financing of the mujahideen. Bin Laden, the MAK, and most of the Arab volunteers were largely unknown to the CIA and the American government during the war to oust the Soviet from Afghanistan; only later would the Arab element come to U.S. attention.
Some argue that MAK was supported by the governments of Pakistan, the United States and Saudi Arabia, and that the three countries channelled their supplies through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). This account is vehemently denied by the US government, which maintains that US aid went only to Afghan fighters, and that [Afghan Arabs] had their own sources of funding, an account also supported by Al Qaeda itself. . The State Department quotes CNN analyst Peter Bergen as saying:
"While the charges that the CIA was responsible for the rise of the Afghan Arabs might make good copy, they don't make good history. The truth is more complicated, tinged with varying shades of gray. The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to favor the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which is how the charge arose that they were creatures of the CIA. Former CIA official Milt Bearden, who ran the Agency's Afghan operation in the late 1980s, says, "The CIA did not recruit Arabs," as there was no need to do so. There were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight, and the Arabs who did come for jihad were "very disruptive . . . the Afghans thought they were a pain in the ass." Similar sentiments from Afghans who appreciated the money that flowed from the Gulf but did not appreciate the Arabs' holier-than-thou attempts to convert them to their ultra-purist version of Islam. ... There was simply no point in the CIA and the Afghan Arabs being in contact with each other. ... the Afghan Arabs functioned independently and had their own sources of funding. The CIA did not need the Afghan Arabs, and the Afghan Arabs did not need the CIA. So the notion that the Agency funded and trained the Afghan Arabs is, at best, misleading. The 'let's blame everything bad that happens on the CIA' school of thought vastly overestimates the Agency's powers, both for good and ill." [Holy War, Inc.: Inside the Secret World of Osama bin Laden (New York: The Free Press, 2001), pp. 64-66.]
no time, no motive, no reason. People say getting us into Iraq could have been a motive but...there's a good chance we were going to do that anyway, whether 9/11 happened or not. The Patriot Act won't mean anything to him in a couple years. And as you can see now, it's doing nothing for his popularity.
Malkut, if a card game expains your entire conspiracy theory, it sounds to me like you haven't bothered thinking it all the way through. That's great that you can just blame Bush for mass murder, but can't come up with any plausible way to do so.
BsBray, there might indeed have been a connection between Al Qaeda and the CIA, but that does not mean AL Qaeda is a fiction created by the CIA to scare us, as others would have us believe.