WAR: NYC Police Will Randomly Search Bags on Mass Transit

Originally posted by shots

Kelly stressed that officers posted at subway entrances would not engage in racial profiling, and that passengers are free to "turn around and leave."

Source

There goes your argument for violating constitutional rights right out the window.

You actually think its that simple... to say no and walk away...

Get real, you tell them no and walk away your ass is going to jail. plain and simple..

Thats how they get people for a stupid traffic stop. Watch any cop show and this will prove my point.

These people stop you for speeding yet they want to go thru your #.. what is up wit that.. Same in this cause it will pose a treat to our constitutional rights.. Plain and simple.

[edit on 7/21/2005 by ThichHeaded]

Originally posted by shots

how can they be unconsitutional when the searches are random, and are not mandatory If you don't want to be searched you just cannot ride

Actually, that's exactly what would make the unconstitutional. Generally, the more specific information police have on a possible suspect, the easier it is to find probable cause and obtain a warrant, if necessary. The randomness makes it much harder to prove probable cause. I'm not saying this is logical, given the nature of the threat, but it's the law.

As an aside, I saw increased police presence on the way back home today (riding the subway in Manhattan) but didn't see anyone being searched. Some cops were riding in the cars though, so I guess they probably are stopping some people.

-koji K.

This is ridiculous.

Number one riding the subway isnt a "privilege" some of my taxes go toward the upkeep of this subway so I expect to be able to take advantage of my only viable way of getting around in the city without being unneccesarily hassled.

Number two how exactly will this be enforced will the cops just randomly grab someone out of the crush. Where exactly are they going to search you? Are they going to take you to a back room?

There is a difference between being searched when entering an airport (private property) and a public area (the subway).

I'll be damned if I ever throw my fourth amendment rights out the window.

Originally posted by boogyman
I'll be damned if I ever throw my fourth amendment rights out the window.

This is completely legal, just ask shots and Bloomburg..

You know the guy who said protesting isnt a right its a privledge.. I doubt that he dont know much about our constitution.

On the BBC today, one of the people spoke out against this idea (Police Chief I think) he stated that the idea of a metal dectector, etc, would add 40minutes to the average persons journey.

I myself know how annoying those things can be. Everytime I go anywhere, where their is one I have to be searched by a hand-scanner due to my attire. Even some of my piercings can set them off sometimes (why I got rid of them).

Let alone having to take my boots off, belt, jacket, etc.

Unwarranted searches are what they are. You can't possibly say this doesn't contrivene the prohibition against unwarranted searches, unless you can prove these are something other that just that. Have fun trying.

Our justice system is set up in such a way that there are checks and balances against abuses of power by the state, or by individuals employed by the state. That goes right out the window here. There's no judge approving each search based on probable cause! This is guity until proven innocent. precisely the opposite of the intended ideal.

Then there's the right to travel freely that's being dismissed.

I think the process at airports is insulting to the inteligence of the average mongoloid, if you want to talk about efficacy vs. cost analysis and inconvenience for passengers, but that's neither here nor there. Airports aren't publicly funded inter-city transportation.

It will decrease the ridership dramatically because people are sick and tired of being treated this way. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people moved to Jersey and bought a car with the money they saved not having to spent 4k a month on their tiny apartment.

When I lived in the city, I rode the subways 5 or 6 times a day on average, nevermind the bus. I would have been so pissed...

A citizen in the free world has the right to move around his country and city without being detained, questioned, and searched by his government's security apparatus. You can't sell out your freedom for security, it's a no profit deal.

People are FREAKING OUT about a few thousand deaths a year, when there are MILLIONS of preventable humanitarian ones. It's irrational, and the justifications for it can be shattered to pieces by the simplest logic of the men who created this country.

Now it appears London police have shoot to kill orders for any suspected terrorist riding the tube. Kind of puts random searches in perspective, doesn't it?

[edit on 7/22/2005 by djohnsto77]

Does anyone here actually think these searches will be truely random though?

I doubt it, racial profiling will be used, the majority of those stopped will be those of Muslim appearence. If not all.

Scary times ahead, I predict this kind of treatment to increase in many forms. How much longer before random street searches and random searching of homes, not long.

I lived in NYC for 5 years from 1999 to 2004 and i think it is a good idea. I was there when 911 happened and i can tell you that though they said security was stepped up, it really was not stepped up to do much. It is to crowded and to easy for a terrorist to carry a bomb on to the subway and just leave it in a bag sitting somewhere. On top of that NYC has so many different races living there that you really can not single someone out because they look arab or something (not that that should happen).
There were many times i would see a bag lying in the subway or under a seat and no one seemed to care (that's NYC).
At least with the announcement that they may ramdomly search bags on MTA it may help to deter a terrorist from carrying a bomb onto the subway.
It may be unconsitutional but if you have nothing to hide and it does not make you late to where you are going, then it should not really matter anyway (as long as the cops are polite when doing it).

[edit on 22-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

all i can say is it is unconstutional. where does it stop. i believe it wont stop. it will only get worse from here. every time something happens thats another reason for just one more of our rights to be taken away from us. where does it stop? how soon before they come into our homes and take things away or kill us on the spot and say they were a terrist. whose going to question it if the government said they were going to blow you up. we truly need to open our own eyes to what is really going on here.

Shar, you have to remember something. A lot of you keep say "what if" they start to come into our homes and kill us becuase they said we are terrorist, etc. That is not going to happen. you have to remember that the majoprity of the people that work for the gov't., be it soldiers or cops are people just like you and I. Even if the gov't. was to order stuff like that, the gov't. workers would not just carry it out with no questions asked. I was a soldier for the Army and there is no way I or any of the other soldiers I knew would just go into the homes of americans and just kill them, especially if it was starting to be ordered on mass levels like you are talking about. It just would not happen.
There may only be a few men that make the final orders, but the orders have to be carried out by workers who are american's just like you and I.
We are losing certain consitutional right because of the attacks, but those rights are not something that is really affecting our way of life. It is instead helping to mantain our way of life. I'd much rather they search people and bags while i am on the subway then they do nothing and i possibly get killed on the subway and then i have no way of life as i am dead.
The bottom line is if you have nothing to hide and are doing nothing illegal then you have nothing to worry about.

your words are comforting i can only hope you are right. and the military people and officers dont carry things out.

Originally posted by boogyman
This is ridiculous.

Number one riding the subway isnt a "privilege" some of my taxes go toward the upkeep of this subway so I expect to be able to take advantage of my only viable way of getting around in the city without being unneccesarily hassled.

Isn't a privilege??? Get real it has always been a privilege, transit authorieties have always had the right to refuse to transport people just as airlines and taxis have. The same goes for driving, you pay taxes for the roads don't you? Yet you can have your driving privileges taken away for DUI etc. Driving too is a privilage not a right.

There is a difference between being searched when entering an airport (private property) and a public area (the subway).

Wrong again most airports are public not private properties, but nice try. Doubt what I say, check with your local tax office, I am sure they can confirm that your taxes pay for the runways and buildings in most cases.

in my opinion that is useless... e all know that they are concentrated in England for now...The US only want's to be "in the light" with these randomly searches...