China Refuses To Back Down On General's Nuclear Threat Over Taiwan

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posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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If I remember correctly, Russia wanted to nuke China back around 1971 and was apparently prepared to do so if they could get assurances that the U.S. would not interfere. They didn't get those assurances and thus dropped the whole idea--That's a different subject though. At any rate, I'm glad they didn't bomb the Chinese way back then. Only a madman would be the first to use such weapons and China went on record the other day as declaring they would not be the first to use nukes.




posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Why does America have to defend Taiwan? Whats so important about Taiwan that we risk Nuclear war over it. I'm a Brit so i don't understand the American thinking. I always thought Taiwan was where the ousted Government of China went when it turned communist. Its still more Chinese than American id let them have it back.


Taiwan is a allie of US, and US don't like it's allies to be pushed around. The US will come to the Brits rescue if there is another war in euorpe too.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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(especially, keep in mind, that this is a NON-WESTERN nation we're talking about here that didn't have any knights and code of honor junk in its history)?


I don't agree, The chinese have always had their own code of conduct/honor. Throughout history all they wanted was to be left alone hence the Great Wall. Taiwan is the bone of contention that has the appearance of being the spark that ignited a war however, if as stated it was done for saving face, then its doubtful you could save face and face destruction. Think about it.

If on the other hand, we got drawn into a limited war over Taiwan using conventional weapons alone, our forces are spread so thin and our enemies grow in numbers, what kind of logistics do we have to fight a war of attrition? Peace is always prefferable to anyone of sound mind and using a 21st century logic, the CHinese know this. They do have considerable military might and if they had world dominance aspirations they could make a run for it, but MAD prevents any world power from overstepping their bounds.
Something America should realize though is that being the worlds policemen was never assigned to America. The only thing this is accomplishing is uniting a lot of potential enemies against us. We do stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves, however, like Iraq, should it be up to us to cleanse the region of a tyrant or shouldn't we let the indigenous neighbours deal with their own?
we have fallen into the devils game here, doing the wrong thing for the moraly right reason. In my eyes, the better posture would have been utilizing our strengths instead of displaying our might. There is a fatigue factor that eventually comes into play.
World politics is a beast that has its own nature and I don't profess to understand it since its doubtful any man has all the facts. The one thing I do know is that violence doesn't win hearts and minds.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by keybored]



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 07:49 AM
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I don't get it. It didn't sound like a threat to me. All China is doing is exporting their way of life. Much like America has done to Iraq.

Why not make it like Britian and HK? Sign some treaty for the next 25 or 50 years and after that period the Island goes back to China, and that gives those people that don't want to be under China control enough time to leave, and also allows both sides to save face.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Huh? Did i see correctly? CCP is and was not the owner of the Island although they claim(yes, they claim), they never even sat foot on it! So you are asking Taiwan to be ceded from ROC to CCP's PRC? Ridiculous! That sounds a bit like the policy of appeasement in which countries were given to Nazi's Germany until Hilter, unable to contain his greed anymore, went all out to take Europe. To prevent history from repeating itself we cannot let the communists have their way



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Galvatron
I don't think it was a threat. A threat would be, "we are going to do this" Not "we feel unsafe if this happens so we will do that"

I'm not defending China here, I think the destruction would be fairly mutual. Not to say that the US doesnt have anything to stop nukes, just not enough. It would be horrific to both sides.

Who do you think has more to lose in a Nuke fight? An overpopulated semi-developing country or the world's lone superpower?

In summary, I think that china wants to make it absolutely clear that they don't want US intervention.


The destruction on both sides would be a tit for tat thing and would leave the whole area really non-usable by any country. The one to really keep your eyes on would be those countries that are in the path of the fallout effect. Depending on the prevailing winds, I get the feeling that the Russians would get pretty pissed with all of the toxic dust coming their way. It would be the old classic situiation of MAD and who would the real winners be? No one.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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The CCP is the government of China, the US reconizes that there can only be one China, Taiwan is mostly Han Chinese and thus a part of China. In fact if we go back 80 years we'ld see that it was the policy of the West that everyone within a certain language/culture group should have their own nation prompting the creation of Poland, Czechoslavakia, Yugoslavia, greece, turkey, romania, austria and the baltic states.

Because Taiwan is Chinese Taiwan should go to China.

Next, your under the assumption that Taiwan is like say Quebec or Chechnya, a bunch of people who wish to break away to form their own nation. Wrong.

Taiwan was where Chiang-Kai-Shek and the KMT ran off to after being defeated by the Red Army under Mao, this is still a continuation of our civil war and must eventually come to a close with the final capitulation of the Nationalist forces.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by The Middle KingdomBecause Taiwan is Chinese Taiwan should go to China.


PRC is chinese. Taiwan is chinese. Taiwan is PRC
I like carrots. Rabbits like carrots. I'm a rabbit!


Taiwan was where Chiang-Kai-Shek and the KMT ran off to after being defeated by the Red Army under Mao, this is still a continuation of our civil war and must eventually come to a close with the final capitulation of the Nationalist forces.


It's great! U are the first among ur guys to agree that even Taiwan will not fall/be taken by CCP without a fight. That at least shows Taiwan does not belongs to PRC, yet. And can u stop saying China is CCP? That's an insult to many many chinese like me.


[edit on 20-8-2005 by NotheRaGe]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by xmotex
The furor over this is pretty silly.
If China started bombing US territory, do you think we'd hesitate to nuke them?

The US has no "no first use" policy.


where the heck u been xmotex, u havent read the doctrines on the use of nuclear weapons? the U.S. made a doctrine to not use nuclear weapons in response to conventional weapons.


no no.. you got it all wrong..Out of the big 5 only china has a no first use policy.. and then there's India..



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
The CCP is the government of China, the US reconizes that there can only be one China, Taiwan is mostly Han Chinese and thus a part of China. In fact if we go back 80 years we'ld see that it was the policy of the West that everyone within a certain language/culture group should have their own nation prompting the creation of Poland, Czechoslavakia, Yugoslavia, greece, turkey, romania, austria and the baltic states.

Because Taiwan is Chinese Taiwan should go to China.

Next, your under the assumption that Taiwan is like say Quebec or Chechnya, a bunch of people who wish to break away to form their own nation. Wrong.

Taiwan was where Chiang-Kai-Shek and the KMT ran off to after being defeated by the Red Army under Mao, this is still a continuation of our civil war and must eventually come to a close with the final capitulation of the Nationalist forces.


What is your claim to arunachal pradesh then.. Han chinese there too?



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by Bulldog 52
Why does America have to defend Taiwan? Whats so important about Taiwan that we risk Nuclear war over it. I'm a Brit so i don't understand the American thinking. I always thought Taiwan was where the ousted Government of China went when it turned communist. Its still more Chinese than American id let them have it back.


Two reasons. The first is a matter of principle. Taiwan is a democracy and the US government has a stated policy of supporting democracies worldwide. Given that Taiwan is a pain in China's backside, I think our gov't views that as an extra incentive to go the extra mile for Taiwan.

The second, and probably more important reason, is that its a reassurance to Japan and even Australia that we are committed to keeping China in check and will not allow them to expand militarily into the Pacific without a fight. So its actually more about our major allies in the region than it is actually about Taiwan.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 02:07 PM
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I don't know what the claims there are, I never reserched it, if there are Han Chinese then yes, if they're aren't maybe it was part of the older Chinese Empire, maybe its just politics I don't know in regards to that.

Now why should China be contained? Has China ever really invaded another country? We've defended countries, we've bought countries, we've had dozens of civil wars but any real invasions aside from Kublai Khan's little adventure? No. I think it's America who should be contained, invading 2 countries (though Afghanistan has training camps confirmed, but the US botched reconstruction), the second one was a farce, its America that refuses to sign SALT2 it's america with the largest arms budget and currently has a NeoCon administration controled by the oil industry.

Who should be watched? an Isolationist emerging power or the Interventionist super power that shows absolutely no regard for the soverignty of a nation whose government the US consider's a threat.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 04:10 PM
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Who should be watched? an Isolationist emerging power or the Interventionist super power that shows absolutely no regard for the soverignty of a nation whose government the US consider's a threat.



Who should be watched is the county that threatens nuclear war over a hypothetical conflict. The US has said that china can have Taiwan as long as it does it diplomatically and not thorough military might.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 06:32 PM
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What a complete non-story.

According to the last round of polls (which confirm what every poll has said to date) the Taiwanese people - despite many attempts to condition their reponse to the contrary - don't want to declare total independance from China, therefore this non-story is an irrelvant bunch of empty day-dreaming 'what ifs'........with those itching to end up with a US-China fight effectively howling at the moon for the war they want.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 08:03 PM
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that's good, it allows for eventualy peaceful reunification. As for threatening nuclear war please, just the usual brinksmanship between polititians, the US I believe was the first with the "nuclear Umbrella" doctrine to threaten nuclear war with a "hypothetical" conflict, the Taiwan issue has far more justification to it then the Warsaw Pact invading Nato.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 10:29 PM
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People Rebublic is not Rebublic Of China, not Qing dynasty, not Han dynasty, Shang dynasty or any previous regime. It is not subjected to the territories of previous regimes. So stop claiming these foreign land to be yours. They were and will never be yours.

To this day, Taiwan is the safe haven for those who lost the civil war and escaped. Sadly, this island is in such a strategic location that CCP cannot takes its greedy eyes away from. Also CCP needs a national issue to divert its people's attention away from domestic issues such as corruption and human rights and prevent 1989 massacre from happening again.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
that's good, it allows for eventualy peaceful reunification. As for threatening nuclear war please, just the usual brinksmanship between polititians, the US I believe was the first with the "nuclear Umbrella" doctrine to threaten nuclear war with a "hypothetical" conflict, the Taiwan issue has far more justification to it then the Warsaw Pact invading Nato.


The Taiwan issue has far more justification vis-a-vis nuclear threats than the Wawsaw pact invading NATO??!!!

Man.. you have to justify this..
On one side we have one country(countries) invading another perfectly undisputedly sovereign bunch of countries, and on the we have one country trying to annex/unite another state who's sovereignity is under doubt..

what in blazes are you talking about?!!!



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 10:34 AM
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Hey these agents took a holiday? I was looking 4ward to their ridiculous replies!



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 09:36 PM
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If we look at it another way then Israel would have no claim on any of the middle east yet they do, yet they were given their own nation and were supported through thick and thin.

There are many situations where the world settled the borders based on PREVIOUS borders of porevious regimes/governments. So puh-leez make up your damned minds about which international rules you decide to follow or not. Realpolitik is the only internation sets of rules that apply because any nation can with enough justification either real, imagined or just hypothetical can break any rule as they wish.

As proven when the USA invaded Iraq hmm...



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by NotheRaGe
People Rebublic is not Rebublic Of China, not Qing dynasty, not Han dynasty, Shang dynasty or any previous regime. It is not subjected to the territories of previous regimes. So stop claiming these foreign land to be yours. They were and will never be yours.


chinese dynasty didn't become different countries after the dynasty ended. it merely changed hands. the winning party had the right to claim all the land that the last dynasty owned.

i can tell you this. the KMT never controlled a quarter of the land of the PRC.



To this day, Taiwan is the safe haven for those who lost the civil war and escaped.


Sadly, this island is in such a strategic location that CCP cannot takes its greedy eyes away from.


umm. 1943. this is when the CCP claimed taiwan. a long time before they even had a army. and a long time before they won the civil war.



Also CCP needs a national issue to divert its people's attention away from domestic issues such as corruption and human rights and prevent 1989 massacre from happening again.


no they dont. they clamed it along time before any of these issues were a problem.

you strawman is useless





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