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The most successful religious conspiracy so far

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posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 06:45 PM
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Ok, let me step on the “original sin” debate and defend my fellow female of the species that so conveniently has been condemn since the beginning by the church for allowing the “serpent” or “Satan” to convince her of “sinning” by eating from the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”

First if our bible God was so “knowledgeable of all” he knew beforehand that this was going to happen.

So he would have spared his master creation from “sin” and taken the tree away. Right?

But instead the Tree was allowed to stay marking the beginning of what is the staple, bread and butter of the church.

Now while Christians believe in “guilty babies” Catholics believe in “guilty embryos” signaling with this ideology that we are all condemn from birth and depend on the church for salvation.

Now by the bible perspective let read what it said:

God created Adam and Eve “in his own image” declared that what He had made “was very good” then got so enraged with them that He cursed the Entire human race with an uncontrollable fury that continues to this very day.

What was the Old God of the bible to do? Unable to resolve the entire dilemma of the Homo Sapiens that only sin was to use the same free will he endowed them with, God came himself down to earth in the flesh and have Himself nailed to a cross to appease his own wrath. Even this action of a so called Powerful God of the bible did not have any effect on the human races.

How human can this myth of creation and original sin can be? I will say is all human made.

So who are sinners of an event that obviously was man made,?

Well, let’s see “The idea or expression of [original sin] is that all humans are born sinners; There is not such thing as an innocent baby. From conception, each of us merits the wrath and judgment of God. (Psalm 51:5) Due to original sin, we are charge with “Adam’s” guilt, and we can all be sent to hell not matter if we commit a sin or not.

Now let’s not forget that “original sin” is the whole point of this part of biblical teaching by the church.

Guilt like I said before has been the cornerstone of the church and fear it’s what many used to feed the masses and the faithful.




posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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You have voted marg6043 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.



BTW - I've been out of town for a few weeks so, I'm just catching up but, you're doing a great job!



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
How much you know of the historical facts of how the bible texts were taken from the Church to be translated?

Obviously you forgot to point out that it was the same "original church" the one that did the persecussion.


Why did I forget that ? I'm just trying to find logic in your posts but I'm still finding alot of contradictions.

First you say the original church (RCC?) used and tammpered the Bible to manipulate the masses and gain power. This statement is very wrong, for the people hadn't even read it or had any knowledge of it. Anyway, then when I post a simple fact about the Bible you say... oh no, it was the same "original church" the one that was persecuting the people who were trying to give the Bible to the people.
Okay, then how exactly were they using it to gain power even from ancient times?
That makes absolutely no sense.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by joyouslyhumored

Why did I forget that ? I'm just trying to find logic in your posts but I'm still finding alot of contradictions.


The only contradictions your are finding is the ones that can not posible fit in your understanding of what you have been fed by your own religious believes.



First you say the original church (RCC?) used and tammpered the Bible to manipulate the masses and gain power. This statement is very wrong, for the people hadn't even read it or had any knowledge of it.


Is a historical fact that the bible was translated by the original church and canonized. By hundred of people that were appointed by the church as the chosen ones, not God's chosen ones but the church.
Another historical fact.




Anyway, then when I post a simple fact about the Bible you say... oh no, it was the same "original church" the one that was persecuting the people who were trying to give the Bible to the people.



I am just correcting what is indeed historical facts in our church history, christians were persecuted by the "Romans" heretics were persecuted by the Church. Both events centuries apart.



Okay, then how exactly were they using it to gain power even from ancient times?
That makes absolutely no sense.


Constantino was the first to used the church in a sociopolitical gain to get support from the people. We should thank him from the establishment of the church and the worship of critianity even when until his death bed he was a sun worshiper.

The original church became one of the most powerful churchs in the history of the world, and until this day the original church built in Rome holds one of the most icredible wealths in the world.

Religion in the Unites States is a multimillion dollar empire and is tax free. The faithful always has follow their religous leaders with blind truts, they help others, they do the works of God, but in the meanwhile the leaders of the church trive and reap the benefit of such power.

Perhaps if you research and seek the truth you will see how power, money and decadence has been link to organized religion.

Aldavison thanks for your words.



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043The only contradictions your are finding is the ones that can not posible fit in your understanding of what you have been fed by your own religious believes.


You're kidding right ? How can you be accusing christians of being judgemental and then when someone doesn't understand you and asks a couple questions you turn around and say

"the only contradictions you're finding are the ones that can not possibly fit in your understanding of what you have been fed by your own religious believes"

Oh, so now my beliefs have been "fed to me". Cause you know me right, and you know why I believe what I do ? And now I'm stupid too because they don't fit in my understanding ?

This is as far as I'm willing to take this disscusion. You should live what you preach.


[edit on 1-8-2005 by joyouslyhumored]



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 11:28 PM
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I wouldnt say that you were fed all this... I would more likely say that you were born into all this Babel ( confusion) Its up to you as a person to seek the truth out on your own.
we are all born into Ignorance. the only way we know anything is if we are taught this by lets say are parents. Then we go to church and have a preacher do alittle brainwashing for about 2-3 hrs whatever. then we have are parents doing the same thing at home. so I would say that like in my case it was up to me to decide what was right and wrong. I relized that I could think on my own outside the church. Dont ever let anyone do this for you. God gave us all a Brain. we are capable of coming into truth on our own, and not to let someone do it for us.

dont worry, its all good!!



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 11:36 PM
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The Original sin... Where does it say any where in the bible that what happen in the Garden was "The Original Sin"
also who says The Serpent was evil? am I missing something here, Just because Adam an Woman partook of knowledge of right and wrong does not make this the original sin. and why would this have been so bad?
Think about it, they were naked and told to cover themselves up. is this such a crime?
not unless they ran around like monkeys



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 11:37 PM
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Marge I too voted for you because I give you credit for thinking on your own, and not letting some else do it for you



posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Constantino was the first to used the church in a sociopolitical gain to get support from the people. We should thank him from the establishment of the church and the worship of critianity even when until his death bed he was a sun worshiper.

Supposedly he did confess to a priest on his death bed and received last rites.

I can't figure out if he had, in his mortal fear on the death bed, convinced himself that the religion he had skewered for his own reasons--just might save him from the eternal torture--that had been created into that religion--for the purpose of suppressing/oppressing the masses--and anybody daring contemplation of defying Roman Tyranny.


OR
if he just thinking it wouldn't hurt 'to cover all the bases.'



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:01 AM
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He wanted to make sure he played both sides of the fence



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by Chasrac64
I wouldnt say that you were fed all this... I would more likely say that you were born into all this Babel ( confusion) Its up to you as a person to seek the truth out on your own.
we are all born into Ignorance. the only way we know anything is if we are taught this by lets say are parents. Then we go to church and have a preacher do alittle brainwashing for about 2-3 hrs whatever. then we have are parents doing the same thing at home. so I would say that like in my case it was up to me to decide what was right and wrong. I relized that I could think on my own outside the church. Dont ever let anyone do this for you. God gave us all a Brain. we are capable of coming into truth on our own, and not to let someone do it for us.

dont worry, its all good!!


Do you know where I was born ?
Do you know if I had any parents at all or if I was born an orphan ?
Do you know if I went to church and recieved "brainwash" from a pastor 2-3 hours a week ?
Do you even know WHAT I believe in and WHY ?

If not, I find it very offensive that you would try to play the sad story of your life (if its not yours why bring it up?) on me and then turn around and say "God gave us a brain, use it".


[edit on 2-8-2005 by joyouslyhumored]



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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everyone should seek truth for themselves. Truth can be found outside of church doors. No I do not know you at all, and from your post
I dont know if I want to...



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:26 AM
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That's exactly it.

Where did I talk about church ?



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 04:23 AM
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I think you christian types are missing the point.

You are expected to think for yourselves and find the truth. You are just now allowed to come to the conclusion that Christ is truth. If you end up that way then it has been fed to you.



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 08:41 AM
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Well, let’s see “The idea or expression of [original sin] is that all humans are born sinners; There is not such thing as an innocent baby. From conception, each of us merits the wrath and judgment of God. (Psalm 51:5) Due to original sin, we are charge with “Adam’s” guilt, and we can all be sent to hell not matter if we commit a sin or not.

Now let’s not forget that “original sin” is the whole point of this part of biblical teaching by the church.


No, we are not born sinners because Adam and Eve broke or disobeyed the one commandment of God .....

.......we inherited DEATH of the body because Eve saw that the fruit was good and she did eat......


"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12).



Adam and Eve then inherited .....physical and spiritual death....away from God ... Adam and Eve began to choose separation from God....Disobeying God with His first commandment....they Freely chose of themselves to be seperated because of disobedience......Free will.

What is SIN?.."missing the mark" or "falling short of perfection."
original sin; man is born mortal and therefore sins......
quote///
Deuteronomy 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons,
nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.
Remember that "sin" here is the nature of man that is mortal.
For this, Apostle Paul said 1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

Ancestral sin has a specific meaning.
The Greek word for sin in this case,
amartema,
refers to an individual act indicating that the Eastern Fathers assigned full responsibility for the sin in the Garden to Adam and Eve alone.
The word amartia, the more familiar term for sin which literally means “missing the mark”, is used to refer to the condition common to all humanity.........death will come to all.

The Eastern Church, unlike its Western counterpart, never speaks of guilt being passed from Adam and Eve to their progeny,as did Augustine.
Instead, it is posited that each person bears the guilt of his or her own sin. The question becomes,
“What then is the inheritance of humanity from Adam and Eve if it is not guilt?”
The Orthodox Fathers answer as one: death. (I Corinthians 15:21)

Death and corruption began to reign over the creation. “Sin reigned through death.” (Romans 5:21)
In this view death and corruption do not originate with God; he neither created nor intended them. God cannot be the Author of evil. Death is the natural result of turning aside from God.

more here.....
Ancestral Versus Original Sin:
An Overview with Implications for Psychotherapy
by V. Rev. Antony Hughes, M.Div
St. Mary Antiochian Orthodox Church, Cambridge, Massachusetts
here

The Church is like 'paradise on earth' all that are present are there for themselves to be healed through Christ our God...Christ Himself said that He would build the Church (cf. Matt. 16:18).

.....that this Kingdom(earth) is not of the world, that is, its nature is not of the world, not temporal; it is not comparable with earthly kingdoms (cf. John 14:27; 15:19; 17:14-16; 18:36).


Hope all that makes some sense
IX
helen

[edit on 8/2/2005 by helen670]



posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Supposedly he did confess to a priest on his death bed and received last rites.

I can't figure out if he had, in his mortal fear on the death bed, convinced himself that the religion he had skewered for his own reasons--just might save him from the eternal torture--that had been created into that religion--for the purpose of suppressing/oppressing the masses--and anybody daring contemplation of defying Roman Tyranny.




And you are right, yes he turned Christian in his death bed my appologies for not mentioning that, he loved his mother so much that when his mother became Christian he honor any wish that she had her wish was to find who the Christ was in time and history, even making some of them own her own.

Thanks to her we have Jerusalem marked with all the places that the Christ was manifested.

Even when Jerusalem was destroyed completly after AD.

But occurs that is another story worthy of another thread.



posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by queenannie38
Therefore none will be lost and all will be overcomers.




Rev. 9:20-21 Both say there are people who will not repent of their sins.

Rev. 16:9&11 Same thing, repented not

Rev. 20:15 Some are thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity. We don't know how many, but there are some.

The beast and the false prophet are in the Lake of Fire, Rev. 20:10, so you are wrong that "all" will be saved. Your statement is now proven to be a lie. You are not telling the truth concerning salvation.



I believe every word that the Bible says about the lake of fire; I don't believe what Rome says about it, nor what the apostate Churches say about it, nor what tradition says about it; but I certainly believe what the Bible says about it.

The teaching concerning the lake of fire does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in the book of Revelation where it is spoken of in the following passages: Rev. 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10; 20:13-15 and 21:8. This last passage definitely states, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

There should be no question remaining as to the certainty of this lake of fire; neither should there be any doubt as to the awful consequence of having to be cast into it. These Scriptures with their dreadful foreboding should be a fearful warning to all unthinking and foolish people who, because of their love for the world, the flesh, and the devil, have dared to ask why we should serve God now if all are going to be saved eventually. Such people have no love for God nor fear of God, and they manifest by what they say that their professed serving of God is only a pretense, arising - not from any true love for Him - but from fear of punishment. If there were no prospect of hell these would promptly tell God to go to hell and they would, themselves, go to the devil. It is not thus with those who truly love God, for they serve not from fear, but from pure love and devotion. Remove punishment completely from the universe, and they would still serve God with all their hearts.

Because of the gross misunderstanding of almost all people concerning the lake of fire, I would like to draw your attention to three words found in the passage quoted above. "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which BURNS with FIRE and BRIMSTONE: which is the second death."

The word BURN means combustion, or to consume. To consume does not mean to annihilate, for there is no such thing as annihilation in the absolute sense.

FIRE is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really HEAT and LIGHT.

I realize that the above thoughts define the subject very briefly, but let us summarize the meanings thus: BURN means combustion; to change the form of. FIRE means heat and light. BRIMSTONE means divine. Putting these three together can we not see that the lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually, DIVINE HEAT AND LIGHT PRODUCING A CHANGE! Is such a process eternal? All the laws of nature shout that it is not!



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by colbrezharly
I realize that the above thoughts define the subject very briefly, but let us summarize the meanings thus: BURN means combustion; to change the form of. FIRE means heat and light. BRIMSTONE means divine. Putting these three together can we not see that the lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually, DIVINE HEAT AND LIGHT PRODUCING A CHANGE! Is such a process eternal? All the laws of nature shout that it is not!


Yes. I really like the way you summed that up in your all-caps sentence!




posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 03:02 AM
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Getting back to the original topic:

I don’t know that it is a conspiracy, but I do know that organized religion is being used as a form of mind control. Instead of uniting the world through love, religion tends to divide us by what we believe. I have known Muslims, Jews, Christians and Pagans and what they all have in common is that they believe that they are right and all others are wrong. While they are arguing their beliefs, the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

I am a Christian. I will not preach or try to make you believe anything. I will not argue scripture interpretation, although I may offer my interpretation. I will not condemn anyone. I will love. And I will pay attention to what is going on in the world and try to figure out what I can do about it. I will not let the religious institutions, or any political party dictate how I am to live my life. I will try to make a real difference.



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