It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

criss angel discussion...

page: 86
13
<< 83  84  85    87  88  89 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 04:00 PM
link   
If you call the top of the Luxor a controlled envrionment then no wonder...and Criss has NEVER used editing to make the film appear to show something it does not..and the reason you ' cannot see how Criss does his tricks ' is because they are not tricks, and thus you cannot see any props. Since you cannot see any props, you assume that they MUST be there because of your limited ability to discern reality and your inability to conceive of anyone levitating without props.

Thats the key to it all really...the inability of some people to accept the fact that not all humans are unable to defeat gravity. Criss is NOT in a copntrolled envirnment at all, thats a laugh. Golf course? Controlled? No way. And WHY is it that not one of you will discuss the fact that Criss alone, in the world, does the feats we see him do? Afraid of that, are you? Too afraid you will be seen as shallow if you claim that not one other human being has any interest in such things and that Criss is the King of Illusion and all others accept this? you will ignore that fact because you know it stumps you. Cannot wiggle out of that one, so you quit and run.

Typical. Not one photo of a prop. Not one witness paid off. Not one example of film tricked to fool the observer on a material point, not ONE stinking ounce ofg proof to believe that props are there, yet you will defy logic and reality until the sun stops shining because you are dead set certain that you know all there is to know about the forces that govern reality and the physical and spirit realms. This innate brilliance has brought you to the conclusion that somehow, some way, Criss is folling us all into thinking that he really doesn't use props, while of course doing so..right? isn't that what you believe? Unreal..just unreal.

To accept NO evidence whatsoever over the plain and simple proofs right in front of you says a lot about you and nothing about Criss. Try again, using something real this time.




posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 07:38 AM
link   
reply to post by pavil
 



You have proven NOTHING, you have shown nothing and you have accomplished NOTHING. All you have done is to imagine that the lack of evidence means lots of evidence, and that is clearly a delusion on your part.

Nothing has been refuted, and nothing exposed. All you have done is show that the people who believe in invisible props and loyal to the death witnesses who lie and film that fools live audiences...you will believe anything as long as it doesn't challenge your conceptions of how things work in this world. Anything that goes beyond your experience is a ' trick ' even though you cannot find out what the trick is!!! You admit that Criss is so slick that you simply cannot figure out how he does it, and that does not even bother you. I would be asahmed if I could not come up with the ways that an event is accomplished, but I did and you did NOT.

Warning!! Warning!! Pavil issues a warning: to all those who come to a debate with a knife and the main man has a machine gun, you had better rethink your approach. Come with proof and not guesses, proof and not some theory that is impossible and unproven, proof and nopt wild speculations. Oh, you cannot? I didn't think so: You are right, you had better retire and quit the debate as you are beaten already.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 07:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by tom goose
I dont know if this video was posted yet, but i found it on digg.com

If Criss was for real, then why would he admit to his tactics and fakery.



media.putfile.com...



Speaks for itself... nothing paramormal going on here.


I wondered how CA was able to pull off that levitation trick. Now I know. The way he describes distracting with his arms while slipping his leg out of the pants is great.

He makes it look so real.

Stars for you, tom goose. Nice find.

[edit on 4/1/08 by masqua]



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 09:05 AM
link   
reply to post by eyewitness86
 



Eyewitness, you obviously must not have participated in the last 20 or so pages of this discussion or seem to have memory loss, we provided ample proof of CA blatently editing his television shows and staging his illusions. We also showed you CA using the EXACT same people for the SAME exact illusion (girl levitating on street) seperated by years and 1000's of miles. That is the nail in the coffin, using the same people in two seperate levitations seperated by years and cities. The odds of that being a random coinincidence are astronomical. You have a good day.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 11:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
If you call the top of the Luxor a controlled envrionment then no wonder...

Actually, I do call that a controlled environment. If you think for a second that CA didnt have his crew up there with him (maybe just below him), a team of paramedics standing by somewhere close, and luxor personelle then your more delusional than your posts make you out to be.

If you think for a second the Luxor hotel would just let him float there without some kind of saftey for himself, or better yet, the people below, than I dont know what to tell you.

If something were to go wrong during such a stunt, the Luxor would suffer serious PR damage.

The luxor top, the luxor atrium, the golf course; there all controlled environments.




and Criss has NEVER used editing to make the film appear to show something it does not..

What about the building 2 building levitation? You know, where that man is walking across frame in one shot, then you see a different angle of the same shot and hes not in frame. Or did you just forget about that?



and the reason you ' cannot see how Criss does his tricks ' is because they are not tricks, and thus you cannot see any props.

Or, the camera angles make it very difficult to see props, than cleaver digital editing takes whatever might be visible out.



Since you cannot see any props, you assume that they MUST be there because of your limited ability to discern reality and your inability to conceive of anyone levitating without props.


Actually, my spiritual beliefs allow of a lot of otherwise "mind boggling" things to happen. I myself have been witness to things others might call paranormal, and through my own exploration (as we shall call them) I have come to understand a strong relationship between human boundaries and the minds will to overcome them.

But does that mean that because I believe these things are possible, that CA must be the incarnation of such abilities? HELL NO! CA is a preformer, he preforms tricks and stunts for entertainment and thats it!

Your constant condemnation of those that do not believe in CA is really wearing thin. Just because we do not share your belief in CA does not mean we are somehow spiritually deviod. Quite frankly, I take that offensively.



And WHY is it that not one of you will discuss the fact that Criss alone, in the world, does the feats we see him do? Afraid of that, are you?

Nope, we've addressed this a number of times. It boils down to patent holders, presentation, and sheer lack of interest.

1) Patent holders.
CA probably has a team of engineers on his crew (as most magicians do) These engineers design and patent the contraptions that are behind all the tricks and stunts they do. These engineers are loyal to their employer because often times, the machines they create become the intellectual property of their employers.

Basically, CA's crew makes the gizmo's, CA gets the patent.

2) CA creates the presentation of the trick and stunt, probably by himself, but most likely has a consultant or someone like that to help him out. Seeing as CA creates the show, no magician in the world is going to copy him directly, they will need to come up with a new routine.

3) I dont care what you say, but people arent interested in seeing joe shmoe do the same trick CA, or any other magician does. People want to see, at the very least, an improvement on an existing trick, or a new one all together.

Coping CA just isnt as profitable as you think it is.


Cannot wiggle out of that one, so you quit and run.

Hardly, we left this debate because In Spite Of whatever counter-evidence we provide, and whatever counter-argument we made, you came back with the same tirade about being spiritually devoid and morraly backrupt. We got sick of you berating us so we agreed to disagree and went out seperate ways.



... This innate brilliance has brought you to the conclusion that somehow, some way, Criss is folling us all into thinking that he really doesn't use props, while of course doing so..right? isn't that what you believe? Unreal..just unreal.


You speak about us providing no evidence (we have, you just brush it off and call it coincodence or a non-issue) but you have yet to provide one quote, one video, one ounce of proof that CA does have some spiritual gift. All you provide is post production footage of CA.

And yes, that is what we believe. That CA is using props that you cant see. But its not so crazy as you make it out to the believe. the combination of camera angles, repetitive shots, and post production digital editing creates the effects you see in CA's stunts.



To accept NO evidence whatsoever over the plain and simple proofs right in front of you says a lot about you and nothing about Criss. Try again, using something real this time.


What proofs? What the hell are you talking about? You have given us NOTHING to suggest CA is actually levitating. Where is the independant footage of CA using his gift? Where is the scientific evalutaion of his gift? Oh whats that? You dont have these or anything else that would conclusively prove CA is legit? Well shucks, then I guess you got jack.

Seriously, this could have been a very civil and enguaging conversation but you keep throwing this BS up like its yesterdays spoiled lunch. Stop calling us liars on whatever scale, stop saying we are spiritually deviod (or whatever your witty remark may be on those lines) and start presenting some real evidence that doesnt come from Criss Angel Productions.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 03:21 PM
link   
Guys, without a doubt, this is the single most amusing thread i have ever, ever seen on any internet forum.

I study magic and sleight of hand as a hobby. I own one of Criss Angel's Mastermind DVDs, in which he teaches the "Coin into Pop Can" penetration, along with introducing us to the man behind the plan, another magician of great standing within magic circles. Of course, Criss doesn't make his own illusions like he claims.

Did nobody even checked his website www.crissangel.com?

You can buy these DVDs right there!

Please, do some very elementary research before assuming Criss Angel is Jesus Incarnate.

And for following reference:
a) Do NOT believe everything you see.
b) If a magician tells you "The following is not a trick," DON'T believe him, no matter how impossible the trick seems, as i can guarantee that it has an embarrassingly simple solution.

Deny Ignorance.



[edit on 4/1/08 by SleightlyDicey]

[edit on 4/1/08 by SleightlyDicey]



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 03:50 PM
link   
reply to post by SleightlyDicey
 


Its been an uphill battle for the most part.

At least we see more support for those that believe in reality than those that wish to fabricate it.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 09:48 AM
link   
Gawd is this still going on?

He is an illusionist that is all. If a single celled amoeba was sentient and able to read, it would read this thread and know that.

Whenever, there is a camera there is scope for trickery. They say just filming you gives the impression of gaining 10 pounds.

Look at any footage with "stunts" is that for real...or is special effects and stuntmen. Did Harold Lloyd really dangle precariously on that sky scraper or was there some "propery" out of camera sight? In "Way Out West" did Stan Laurel really stretch Oliver Hardys head through that trapdoor? Were those guys in Westerns really shot to death by an arrow or were they wearing a protective pad? It goes on and on but that is all that is happening with CA.

Jeeze, the guy himself says he has no "powers" and he looks set to debunk those that claim that they have. But like the followers of Brian in "The Life Of Brian" they still believe he is the messiah...because only the real messiah would deny his divinity.

I bet the believers watched "Penn and Tellar" and the "Masked Magician" while they were showing "how to's" and believed that they too were covering up the fact that they were really gifted.
Who needs Jackie Mason and Billy Connelly with these guys about



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 10:07 AM
link   
there are NO DVD's showing the high levitations, only the one foot one. Next: I called the Luxor and spoke directly to the head of Engineering there, and asked very pointed questions. He said that there was ' no one up there that night except Criss and the light ". The Hotel denies that anyone was up there except for him. Now, are ALL employees of the Luxor told to lie for Criss? Will you call that man and tell him he is a liar?

Here is what it boils down to: You people who deny reality have NOTHING whatsoever, nothing, that proves your imaginings. You have not ONE witness paid off. You have not ONE example of film tricked to make it appear that something that did not happen happened. You do not have ONE example of anyopne other than Criss doing what he does.

But, somehow, you seem to find a great deal of comfort in all your NOTHING!! You STILL have not, and will not, answer the main points. You KNOW that not all up and coming performers, illuisionists, would accept being forever the second place finisher..in Las Vegas competition is incredible. But somehow no one BUT Criss ever seems to do the high levitations, levitations in broad daylight far from a stage...and even when I PROVE to you that there was no props and set ups at the Luxor, you will no doubt say that all the employyes of the hotel must have been told by some unknown person to always lie for Criss and always stay silent for Criss..is that right? Do you believe that? If not, then welcome to reality, if so, then WHY in the hell do you believe so much in what there is NO PROOF for?

HIGH levitations, NOT one foot tricks. Daylight levitations with multiple witnesses, not some stage with lighting effects. Multiple camera angles from private cameras and never ONE bit of proof that any editing was ever used to change the perception of an event..never.

You guys would deny Criss ability if he appeared in your living room and levitated right in front of you..you know you would. Your denial is not based on evidence and proof, but on a FAITH that you know all there is to know about the physical and immaterial universe. If your ego was not so sure, your brain would tell you that your bag of proof is empty and that you are relying on imagination and not on proofs to make your determinations. No matter how much you try and deny it, you simply are stumped that not ONE bit of real and material proof is available to you, all you have is CONJECTURE< and that is simply not enough to win the battle.

you can laugh and deride me all you want, just remember that when it is all said and done, NO ONE , not one other human being on this earth, has or can levitate at high elevations and in braod daylight in front of neutral witnesses, except Criss Angel. No one thinks he is Christ; but remember that Christ said that we could do all the things he could, and MORE. Wrap your mind around that a bit and then see how terrible shallow and immature your reasonings are.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 12:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The Hotel denies that anyone was up there except for him. Now, are ALL employees of the Luxor told to lie for Criss? Will you call that man and tell him he is a liar?


1) I doubt most employee's of the Luxor knew any of the subtitles of CA's performance
2) the Luxor is in a contractual agreement with CA for performance and probably merchandise. Making any "negative" exposure a risk to an otherwise lucrative business venture
3) why the hell would some desk clerk confide in you, the inner workings of CA's tricks?



You STILL have not, and will not, answer the main points.


you said that last post, and I went through your post and commented on such "main points" as you described. What points in particular are you talking about?



WHY in the hell do you believe so much in what there is NO PROOF for?

Im not going to bother going through the bulk of your last paragraph as its just a rehash of the same trite.
Ive asked you time and again to please provide a list of what you believe is proof of CA's abilities and you have yet to do so. So far, all you have is Criss Angel Production films.

Where is the independent testimony?
Where is the independent footage?
Wheres is the independent testimony from his crew stating hes the real deal?


Multiple camera angles from private cameras

Now we're getting somewhere, please, do show us this private footage you have acquired. I sure hope your not relying on footage that has been passed through CA's mind freak production company, because you know, that removes the independent classification on it.



and never ONE bit of proof that any editing was ever used to change the perception of an event..never.

And you say we ignore your points, here is a quote from my last post to you:

What about the building 2 building levitation? You know, where that man is walking across frame in one shot, then you see a different angle of the same shot and hes not in frame. Or did you just forget about that?


Bolding added so you cant ignore it as easily as last time



Your denial is not based on evidence and proof, but on a FAITH that you know all there is to know about the physical and immaterial universe.

HA! speak for yourself!



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 01:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86 I called the Luxor and spoke directly to the head of Engineering there, and asked very pointed questions. He said that there was ' no one up there that night except Criss and the light ". The Hotel denies that anyone was up there except for him. Now, are ALL employees of the Luxor told to lie for Criss? Will you call that man and tell him he is a liar?


yes i will

watch the video - there is a minimum of one camera man up there with him

that is evident from the vid

how many more personel there were is unknown

but that one cameraman is enough to show the statement that mr angel was alone is a lie



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 02:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
You guys would deny Criss ability if he appeared in your living room and levitated right in front of you..you know you would. Your denial is not based on evidence and proof, but on a FAITH that you know all there is to know about the physical and immaterial universe.


Sorry just couldn't resist this one. So eyewitness, have you up close and in person witnessed one of CA's high levitations that you seem so confident of ? Otherwise you are just relying on FAITH as well.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 03:15 PM
link   
From my experience these people use pre planned actors for some of their stunts and well placed information gatherers in the crowd to size up potential people to bring to the stage. they fish for info like lost loved ones and such and then the so called 'magician' ' amazingly knows all about it. im not saying he is one of these people merely pointing out some of the more well known ways these things can be done. remember that most magic is simply knowledge thats unknown to the general public and thus not yet understood by the masses



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 03:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by pavil
Sorry just couldn't resist this one. So eyewitness, have you up close and in person witnessed one of CA's high levitations that you seem so confident of ? Otherwise you are just relying on FAITH as well.


That is the one thing which echoes throughout this thread that eyewitness just can't seem to get a grasp on! He has no concrete evidence to support his claims, so it's pure faith. WHY OH WHY CAN'T HE SEEM TO SEE THAT!?

It must be the cannabis clouding his judgment.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 10:14 PM
link   
reply to post by Arawn
 



My judgement is more sound than yours no matter what I medicate with, or do not, as the case may be. You have NO knowledge of me and my habits so stop the personal assumptions.

The film piece that they are howling about means NOTHING. All it was is two different camera men using two diofferent cameras moving around and getting shots of the event from various angles. As is NORMAL in ALL production stages, film is edited to emliminate scenes that detract from the event or have no value, or tend to distract. That is called professional film editing. You cannot have a TV show without many editors putting may pieces of film togeth to make sense. In this case. someone picked out some totally inconsequential scene and said that because two different cameramen shot the scene from two different angles, thios some equals a way to make us all think that Criss did something that we didn't get to see.

That is a total lie and no proof exists for it. criss has NEVER used film tricks; Why would he? he has to satisfy LIVE audiences that pay him real money to watch him perfom the same type events and he cannot fake them then or depend on films later, now could he? No way. Cannot have it both ways. The live performances are legendary due to the crowds reactions and the events themselves.

STILL no way to get around the fact that ONLY Criss can do the high lev's and the daylight lev's? really believe that there is not ONE young buck out there ready to make the money and take Criss down a notch. The very first thing he should do is to replicate one of Criss events, do is just as he does, with NO props seen or witnessed or filmed by anyone , ever. That would at least show us that Criss is not the only one who can do it, right ?

But somehow the years kep rolling by and Criss justr never seems to get anyone even close to his events. Wonder why? No? No wonder then!!



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 10:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
My judgement is more sound than yours no matter what I medicate with, or do not, as the case may be. You have NO knowledge of me and my habits so stop the personal assumptions.


Well, I agree with you there, bringing personal habits into this conversation is not necessary.



The film piece that they are howling about means NOTHING.

See what I mean by brushing off discrepancies as meaningless?



All it was is two different camera men using two diofferent cameras moving around and getting shots of the event from various angles.

Yes, thats exactly what it was, 2 different angles, from 2 different cameras. But we have to assume one of two things here: 1) these shots were taken at the same time, but edited later to produce the final shot. Or 2) these shots are taken at 2 different times and edited later to produce the final shot.




As is NORMAL in ALL production stages, film is edited to emliminate scenes that detract from the event or have no value, or tend to distract.


So its your contention that some guy walking under CA is such a distraction that it will take away from a man floating from 1 building to another? And you say we have flawed logic.

We are not focusing on this shot because of the man taken out of the frames, we are focusing on this shot because it is indicative of further film editing. If the CA production company takes out an inconsequential man underneath CA (by the way, they would need digital editing effects to do such a thing) than why should we trust them to not edit out the props, or splice multipule takes of the same trick together?




That is called professional film editing. You cannot have a TV show without many editors putting may pieces of film togeth to make sense

So you admit that CA has an entire production team working with him then?




. In this case. someone picked out some totally inconsequential scene and said that because two different cameramen shot the scene from two different angles, thios some equals a way to make us all think that Criss did something that we didn't get to see.

HA! Thats hardly the issue we have with this. This scene is indicative of CA's editing feats. The fact that they spliced two shots together with incontinuity suggests that other shots may be spliced (as well) as well.

If CA's production team has no problem editing out some inconsequential walking man, then why would they have a problem in editing out something more telling?

One more point to make after reviewing that video.

In the disappearing man shot, there is a group of people in the corner of one of the buildings. If CA's production team felt that the one man walking under CA was so inconsequential, why leave a small huddled group of people in the corner?


That is a total lie and no proof exists for it. criss has NEVER used film tricks


What hypocrisy! In one paragraph you admit that he uses film tricks to cut someone out of a scene, then in the next you say theres no proof he ever did! LAME!



Why would he? he has to satisfy LIVE audiences that pay him real money to watch him perfom the same type events and he cannot fake them then or depend on films later, now could he?


Bolding mine

So, when was the last CA performance in which he preformed a high levitation in front of a live audience of thousands of people that payed to see him preform?

Go ahead, please tell us, better yet, find the footage of such an event.

I'm willing to bet dollars to dough nuts CA has NEVER preformed this stunt in front of a paying audience at the Luxor.

prove me wrong!




No way. Cannot have it both ways. The live performances are legendary due to the crowds reactions and the events themselves.


He only does high levitations for video's!




STILL no way to get around the fact that ONLY Criss can do the high lev's and the daylight lev's?...


Not going to bother addressing these points again because, it is just a rehash. Every post you make you bring the same thing up regardless of how many times we address it. How about you offer some damn counter-points to our explanations? Ill quote myself below for easy refrence:


1) Patent holders.
CA probably has a team of engineers on his crew (as most magicians do) These engineers design and patent the contraptions that are behind all the tricks and stunts they do. These engineers are loyal to their employer because often times, the machines they create become the intellectual property of their employers.

Basically, CA's crew makes the gizmo's, CA gets the patent.

2) CA creates the presentation of the trick and stunt, probably by himself, but most likely has a consultant or someone like that to help him out. Seeing as CA creates the show, no magician in the world is going to copy him directly, they will need to come up with a new routine.

3) I dont care what you say, but people arent interested in seeing joe shmoe do the same trick CA, or any other magician does. People want to see, at the very least, an improvement on an existing trick, or a new one all together.

Coping CA just isnt as profitable as you think it is.


Im still waiting for that independent footage you claimed existed in a previous post. So please show it to us and shut us all up.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 10:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
My judgement is more sound than yours no matter what I medicate with, or do not, as the case may be. You have NO knowledge of me and my habits so stop the personal assumptions.


I'd just like to point out that you say I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF YOU...yet you say your judgment is more sound than mine! You're doing what you hated me for, right back at me! Heh.

TALK ABOUT HYPOCRISY!

And you expect us to believe what you say, when you continuously bounce the ball around your fantasy head, picking out what you believe one second, then later on saying quite the opposite!

Oh, give over eyewitness! Maybe you should change your profile then. It clearly says you enjoy cannabis! You lie about everything, your habits, not knowing what you've written in your own profile and now about Kris Angel. Dear oh dear oh dear, you are quite the joke aren't you.




posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 06:09 PM
link   
It does not say I ENJOY anything, liar!! I support medical cannabis in states where it is legal. If ylu can read, it says NOTHING about my personal non- use or whatever. You made that up, therefore you lied. It is ONE WORD, cannabis, with NO elaboration at all.

Why bring all this up? Because you cannot reply with any substantive answers. Always attack the messenger and not the message, because you cannot. So transparent, so lame..ignore button here I come!



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 06:17 PM
link   
reply to post by InSpiteOf
 



Patents are public and none exist for invisible perops!! How totally lame. Unreal. to sink that low. Imagining nonexistant patents for invisible props that no one ever talks about, ever. No one sees them also. Of course since they are invisible, they cannot be seen !!

Thats it!! We have finally discovered the truth of Criss success!! He has secret patents on invisible props that all employees and engineers stay silent about forever. No wonder they cannot be seen!! imagine that! And all this time I thought he could levitate: silly me: Secret patents and invisible props explains it all and now we can all go back to sleep.

My God, is there no shame in the deniers creed? Secret patents? Invisible props? Loyalty from strangers forever, not only from employees but from all the ' paid off ' witneses as well, right? What will you people NOT believe? Jesus, I have some nice mountain land you need to buy: kind if steep but lots of trees!! If you can believe in secret patents and invisible props, you will believe anything. I am willing to bet that the vast majority of the denierts are believers in the official story of 9-11 also, aren't you? Admit it, you rascals..you believe anything that will make you feel secure and in control..what a laugh.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 07:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Patents are public and none exist for invisible perops!! How totally lame. Unreal. to sink that low. Imagining nonexistant patents for invisible props that no one ever talks about, ever. No one sees them also. Of course since they are invisible, they cannot be seen !!


Your right, patents are public domain, but the product they detail isnt. If you happen to talk to the engineers behind CA's magic tricks, do ask them for patent numbers so we can look up such apparati, as Im sure they exist.

No one said anything about invisibile props, you just use it as a side step to the possibility of camera manipulation and carefully thought-out camera angles and shots.



I am willing to bet that the vast majority of the denierts are believers in the official story of 9-11 also, aren't you? Admit it, you rascals..you believe anything that will make you feel secure and in control..what a laugh.



Riiiight, you think you know us and our thinking patterns because we dont believe CA can fly. Childish man, real childish. Im done with this, believe what you want, but you look like the idiot for your outright refusal to accept the probability that CA is just another illusionist, not us.

[edit on 7-1-2008 by InSpiteOf]



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 83  84  85    87  88  89 >>

log in

join