It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

criss angel discussion...

page: 75
13
<< 72  73  74    76  77  78 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 02:13 PM
link   
Paul :

for some reason i cannot quote the reply i want , as the threrad is acting up - so forgive a bit of paraphrasing

regards the helicopter / hooks stunt

i do not believe for one second that he was actually hung by his flesh below that helicopter

PS - in one reply you stated that you believed this was evidence of his pain tolerance , yes ?

what evidence do you have that he was not given novocaine injections of camera ?

also you opined that this stunt attested to his self healig gift - if thats your position :

can you date that event ? to show that he can heal himself you have to know that a given [ and unatrualy short ] number of days elappse between the stunt [ helicopters / hooks ] and is next public appperance where he went shirtless

can you provide the dates and elapsed days ?

PS - my jibe about dynamic load was veery serious

load in such as situation is measured in newtons [ N ] and is a function of mass and velocity / acceleration

look it up

then tell me what you think is keeping him connected

if his flesh posseses the tensile strengh - how did they getr the hoooks in ????????

and another thing - have you got a link to a better vid , that shows more of this stunt ??

the only one i can view is very poor quality and avoids showing key elements i want to see more of

PS - when you see mr angel suspended below the choper - look caredully at his arms / legs and body position

no sense of deja vue ???????

like you have seen the stance before in his " levitations "

think on that one


given that i cannot read som,e of your replies right now to address your exact opinions - i will stop here




posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 06:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
Paul :

for some reason i cannot quote the reply i want , as the threrad is acting up - so forgive a bit of paraphrasing

regards the helicopter / hooks stunt ...

what evidence do you have that he was not given novocaine injections of camera ?

Regardless of any drugs for pain, it is a nutty thing to do in the first place.

But it is very much along the lines of what fakirs and those who pursue advanced yogic discipline perform.


Originally posted by ignorant_ape
also you opined that this stunt attested to his self healig gift - if thats your position :

can you date that event ? to show that he can heal himself you have to know that a given [ and unatrualy short ] number of days elappse between the stunt [ helicopters / hooks ] and is next public appperance where he went shirtless

I don't know about your body, but if I had my skin pierced as he did, it would probably take months for it to heal completely. Even if I had scarring, the pain involved would not make it worth the effort.

Are you implying that he does these self-mutilation feats while pumped up on drugs?

If that be the case, then why aren't other illusionists piercing their flesh and hanging from helicopter wires?

I'm not buying it.


Originally posted by ignorant_ape
and another thing - have you got a link to a better vid , that shows more of this stunt ??

It is not something I look for. Do a YouTube search.


Originally posted by ignorant_ape
PS - when you see mr angel suspended below the choper - look caredully at his arms / legs and body position

like you have seen the stance before in his " levitations "

That is neither here nor there. For all we know, and some of us know more than others, he partially levitated during the helicopter stunt in order to lessen the burden on his pierced skin.

Think on that one.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 06:52 PM
link   
Well, so far we have one denier who THINKS that he saw someone ELSE answer my question, that is a real answer..and another who cliams to have answered it..where is the answer? All I am asking is that you tell us HOW he did it please. Was he using invisible helicopters to hang from? Were all the witnesses paid off? Was there film trickery wiping out the alleged cranes or wires or whatever it is that you believe Criss was hanging from? Tell us, WHAT was Criss hanging from on the golf course?

Saying you know is not enough..tell us. Give us a LIKELY answer to a very simple question or acmit that you cannot. Simple. Just tell us all, how did Criss pull off the golf course event? Describe to us the props you imagine he used..tell us just how you think he did it. SURELY people as aware and intelligent and savvy as you deniers will not have any trouble giving us a likley scenario, right? Isn't that right?

C'mon now, no more refusing to answer, no more saying that you did already..just tell us in a paragraph or two a LIKELY way that Criss did the event. That is so simple and should be very easy for those of you so sure that there are props..Tell us where they are. What type maybe? Why the people there didn't see them? NO MORE HIDING< DENIERS< ANSWER THE QUESTION or be seen as totally unable to do so. If you cannot even IMAGINE a way that it was done, HOW in the world can you be so sure that you are right? Just because??!! Is just because good enough for anyone? NO!!

Quit running from the challenge and answer or be shown to be unable to do so. Your slipping and sliding is done..answer the question or be seen as empty and only relying on guesses for your beliefs.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 07:27 PM
link   
reply to post by eyewitness86
 


Eyewitness, I will try to be painfully clear so you don't get confused this time.

I am referring to the golf course levitation. I don't know or comprehend how you thought I was talking about his fake leg/pant levitation. No one else got confused on it, hmmmm.
Here are my points for the third time.

1. It happens early morning when not many are on the course. The few people we do see in the video are paid / acting amazed. It is not a huge amount of people and you can believe what you like. The don't necessarily have to be hired actors just people there willing to play along. That would explain the rotten acting we see in some of these "demonstrations".

2. There is a youtube video out there that documents the golf course levitation, actually quite a few of them. The one in particular I refer to shows CA making odd motions with his hands and legs prior to being levitated. They contend and so do I that those motions are CA securing himself to wires that cannot be seen at the distance the camera shots are taken at. They may be invisible on camera, they are not imaginary. Maybe later this week I will find it again. Rest assured that video exists, I don't think you want to doubt me again and be proven wrong at least a third time, but hey go ahead.

3. The most likely platform to be raised from is a crane, mainly for since CA says in the video something to the effect of "pan the camera up so you can see that I don't use Helicopters and planes to levitate" leaving out the crane. So in fact you can't accuse CA of lying when he says that statement. Very large cranes are actually common on golf courses and don't damage them much. Multiple cranes are used on every televised golf tournament you see on TV. A helicopter could also be used as the shadows would not be visible at all. The blurry UFO thing we see in the video I am not sure of. I don't think it is part of the trick, but why blur it out then? It is puzzling to me. I would imagine they could just have airbrushed it out of the shot completely rather than pixelized it. Maybe that Yahweh prophet UFO guy is part of it.

If someone in Vegas could do leg work, I would venture to say that you could narrow down the companies that supply cranes to golf courses down to less than a handful and research from there on the time frame in question to see if CA's production team rented one. I forget if they mention the golf course in question. I bet talking to the right people at the golf course in a causal manner would yield some results as well.

Anyhow, after CA secures the wires he is then levitated. He is levitated from multiple wires, my guess is four; one on each arm/forearm and one on each foot/leg. This corresponds with his leg and arm motions prior to levitating. Since the sway from the wires would be very noticeable, CA crosses his legs at the ankles to lessen the effect of the sway. Notice that after he lands, CA again goes through an elaborate hand and leg motion to get out of the wires again. It still takes a lot of skill and I am sure it is somewhat dangerous, but it is explained by pretty ordinary methods other than your mystical method.

Before you chime in on "you have no evidence", neither do you. If we had hold of raw video shot by CA's team we might be able to conclusively prove which of us is right.

Ok I answered your questions yet again. My turn now. Knowing what you do now about the Freemont levitation, that the same girl was levitated by CA on a previous special.

Do you think it is possible that the Freemont levitation was prearranged?

And you accuse me of being the "denier" ? Truly laughable.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 07:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
If you want to totally win this debate...

All you have to do is go out and film Criss Angel when he does a high levitation off of a magician's stage and show us in your film the wires, props, etc., that he uses.

That would settle the argument completely.


Are you ready?



The next time I go to Vegas and have a little extra time, you better believe I would be doing just that. It would have to be a concealed camera. Sooner of later someone will do just that however. Still a good reason to go to Vegas though, you could meet us there and see for yourself too.

After all seeing up close and personal is the best way to experience these tricks. Even then, some of them will leave you mystified. I have seen sleight of hand up close and I am an observant fellow, even then I can't figure out how somethings are done. The only way too do that sometimes is repetition. That is where You tube really hurts CA. Seeing it once, you scratch your head. Seeing 15 times pausing, you pull back the curtain.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 07:47 PM
link   
reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


I am not sure of the Hooks stunt. I have seen other artists do similar hangings. I think it is just a physical stunt, albeit one that not many would want to do. From the other group of people I saw do this for a performance art piece three things stuck in my memory.

1. the Location of the hooks. There is not much in the way of Muscle or nerves in that area of the body. It supposedly isn't that painful do to the lack of nerves there. There also aren't many blood vessels there so bleeding is minimal.

2. The amount of hooks in your flesh is the real answer. Hang from just one hook and the hook will just rip through your skin. Hang for a number of hooks and the load is distributed better and you can Hang.


3. That same performance group,(someone should google it somehow) if memory serves me right actually would hold another person below them whiled hanging from the hooks and being swung around. I am guessing that the load on the hooks while alot isn't out of the realm of possibility. The helicopter would create similar stress I thing.

All in all , I think it is just a very well planned out and executed physical stunt. Like I said the troupe I saw on TV kept making me wince with what they were capable of. It is possible.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 09:39 PM
link   
The golf course videos are on page 72.

[edit on 9-9-2007 by Herman]



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 09:51 PM
link   
[edit on 9-9-2007 by Herman]



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 09:53 PM
link   



Eyewitness,

Just do a search on youtube of "Criss Angel Exposed," and you'll find a number of his other illusions exposed. Now to be honest, I enjoy illusions, so I don't really like having them spoiled, but sometimes you just have to face reality and enjoy it for what it is.

[edit on 9-9-2007 by Herman]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 11:41 AM
link   
Pavil: Do you remember the scene from " Full Metal Jacket " in which the drill sgt. is telling Joker about his new bunkmate, Gomer Pyle? The Sgt. says " Private Pyle may be silly and ignorant but he has guts and guts is enough!!". I will not call you ignorant and silly; I will say that at least you have the guts to post possibilities; no one else has the nerve.

I admire your efforts to explain the event, I really do. However, you must realize that as soon as you say that the witnesses are paid off, you have asked us to believe something for which no proof exists.Think about it for a second. If Criss Angel had to rely on loyalty to maintain his profession, how long would he last? Over all these years not ONE employee, or witness, or anyone else, has EVER come forward to say that Criss paid them to act in an event, act suprised, act amazed, and then remain silent forever, supposedly scared to death that if they tell, Criss will sue them in court for breach of contract. Is THAT what you want us to believe?

What are the ODDS, Pavil, that ALL, 100%, of all of these paid people would remain either loyal or scared forever? C'mon now. That is just ridiculous to even imagine as possible or LIKELY. Remember I asked for LIKELY as a standard? And, if even ONE person were to allege or prove a payoff, it would RUIN Criss career. If Criss pays off witnesses, how could he make a living on live shows?If he relies on " cranes ' that have to be ignored by the ' paid ' witnesses and then removed from the films in order to fool the viewer, then we are talking about MANY people in on the deal and to believe that ALL would remain silent forever is beyond ludicrous, even to a die hard denier. You just cannot ask intelligent people to accept odds like that. Layer after layer of deception and always 100% effective and never caught? Right? Ahem..not likley, is it?

Then, after the paid witnesses, we have the cranes and wires and all the rest that has to be moved into the golf course and set up..all the ' witnesses ', supposedly members of the Screen Actors guild, no doubt..right? I mean, if Criss is doing ' movies ' using paid acotrs, the Union would demand that he use union people, of course.The fact that no record of this exists and that none of the actors ever discuss this ' reality ' you imagine mean nothing to a denier, just another pesky fact to ignore.

The rest of your diatribe is more of the same, baseless and fantastic imaginings that are so UNLIKELY that they stagger the sound mind when the odds are calculated. Imagine the odds for EACH of the ' scenarios ' you propose. Just the first one is beyond astronomical. Add to that the following assumptions, all based on guesses and nothing more. The odds of THEM being possible or LIKELY is so far out that no comment is needed as to the veracity of THAT proposal.Add all of the odds -defying facts to the total and what do you have?

You have the following: The deniers are asking a neutral observer with an open mind and no preconceived notions to accept the following guesses as legitimate possibilities and likley given the evidence:

1. To believe that Criss Angel pays off ' witnesses ' to act like they do not see the giant props, cranes, wires, etc. and expect them to remain loyal and silent forever due to some alleged ' confidentiality agreement ' or money as a basis for said loyalty and eternal silence. The fear of civil lawsuits make the witness/actors afraid to ever tell.

Rebuttal: Not one person in all the years of Criss career has EVER alleged being paid off or asked to act in a way that would be deceptive to the audience and cause an event to be seen as something other than what actually occurred. No employee, disgruntled or otherwise, not one ' witness/actor has ever alleged a pay off.To believe that Criss would have 100% success rates over the years is beyond logical or rational. The odds of human beings always following a predicatable pattern, without exception, is not LIKELY or sensible. Civil lawsuits are not so serious and costly that not ONE witness/ actor would dare to expose Criss; a person without many assets has nothing to fear from civil judgements for minor contractual breaches. The publicity for Criss would be devastating if he were to sue someone for spilling the beans; it would attract the exact opposite attention than what he wants.

To believe that is neither LIKLELY nor INTELLIGENT. The odds are staggering and there is NO proof of such a payoff, ever. To say " Well, prove that he doesn't pay off ' , is a dishonest and barren tactic to deflect attention away from your position. You cannot prove a negative; If Criss is not paying anyone off, how can one prove it? Get real..prove that he does pay off. How? Simple. find ONE reliable witness/actor/employee that alleges being paid off.

Just ONE out of the thousands of witness and employees and observers all over the world..just ONE. If you can, that is. So far not ONE has stepped up and made the accusation and yet you pay this no mind..as if it meant nothing. It does mean something, quite a bit as a matter of fact, at least to those of us with the ability to weigh odds and LIKELIHOODS while examining various possibilities as LIKELY or possible under the circumstances.

Picking apart the rest of your effort is not necessary, you cannot even get past the first hurdle so why bother? the odds have caught you immediately. Cranes and wires and invisible props that no other human being has access to..all this means nothing to you, does it? The fact that there has NEVER been one shred of evidence to suggest or imply any of that as being real or LIKELY seals the deal. You are asking us all to accept odds so vast and so ridiculous that it is MORE likley that Criss can levitate!!

That is really the key: The odds are greater that Criss Angel can levitate than it is that a series of totally unproven events must occur and without exception every time. What are the odds that Criss, among all men, has the ability to engender total loyalty, or fear, to an extent that would allow for Pavils theory to be true? Huh? Astronimical, that what. Then add all the other ' suppositions ' that Pavil makes and add the odds for all of them being part of the event at the same time, yet always hidden and never discovered? You have to get into FANTASTIC imagining to begin to believe the deniers excuses; to believe the truth, one need only look & think.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 12:04 PM
link   
reply to post by eyewitness86
 


Yes, I have no proof of "paid off" people. I and others have presented proof of "planted" accomplices ie the Girl at the Freemont and the Black Gentleman that gets the "hand" thrust thru his chest and the girl with the newspaper are three that spring to mind immediately.

The limited amount of people at his major events that he videos, suggests to me that he is intentionlly limiting/controlling the crowd to a certain extent. for All of his "high Levitations" save the Luxor outdoor, there are never more than 40 people that we see, most of the time far less than that. That he only allowed 40 people to witness his major events tells me he doesn't want too many "prying eyes" and is probably "stacking the deck" when it comes to his crowds. That we have already show multiple instances of the same people present at different events either implies fanatical "groupies" or performers working with Criss to pull off the Illusion of a random crowd. Either way, they would not be likely to "rat" him out. You believe what you like, I and others have shown you video evidence that his crowds are not the "random Fans" that you think they portray.


I don't know for sure if there are agreements witnesses have to sign, it has been posted by supposed witnesses that they do have to sign some sort of agreement. Many of the televised "special demonstrations" have very limited audiences, you know that from looking at the videos. Most would be fans in the first place and have no reason to "Dis Criss" in the first place. The same applies for his crew. It remains to be seen if there actually are "gag" orders placed on them to prevent them "spilling the beans".

Most people don't really research CA like we have been doing hear. As a side example there are tons of companies that do Billions of dollars of business and have horrible websites out there bashing them. Most people aren't even aware of those websites existence. I will grant you that it is somewhat odd there is one "Criss Angel Hater" website out there. Perhaps it is due to the fact that people like myself still appreciate his talent and shows even if it "magic". I have no axe to grind with CA, I bet his soon to be ex-wife can write a pretty nasty tale though. Wonder if the divorce settlement will have a gag order on her?

As for the cranes being "edited" out, I just think the shots are strategically done to show no evidence of them in the first place. the wires themselves are "invisible" from the distance the camera shoots and if you never show the cranes in the first place it's "hey look he IS levitating".












[edit on 10-9-2007 by pavil]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 12:08 PM
link   
just a note, HERMAN..There are NO videos on Youtube or anywhere else that show a refutation of Criss events. I have seen them all. There are silly middle schoolers trying to allege things not seen in their ' exposes', and others that talk about everything EXCEPT the high levitations and certain other events.

It is common for deniers to point at videeos that have nothing at all to do with the main issues and try to claim some new revelations. But when examined CLOSELY there is never anything there that can stand the test of logic and proof. Always just some opinion based on conjecture and guesswork; never any facts or evidence.

If you can find a video that shows any other human being doing the events that Criss does, using props, then that is worth listening to. that would be serious evidence. But you cannot and will not find anyone else on earth duplicating Criss events because of reasons that PaulRichard has explained in minute detail in past posts. How many of you deniers have gone to the links that PaulRichard has at the bottom of his posts? There is a wealth of proofs and evidence, and opinion, there that you need to read before even trying to convince people to accept a premise like yours, based on a LACK OF EVIDENCE and a LACK OF PROOF.

No other human being can do what Criss does. If they could, they would. That is human nature; some young buck is always trying to upstage the established order in any profession or ability, be it surfing or racing or flying..or magick..or illusion..to believe that no one has the desire to outdo Criss is silly; the fact is that Criss does not NEED to rely on loyalty or greed or fear to do his thing: He can do what no other human can do because he is gifted in a unique way and is using those gifts to make a living. No problem there. But he uses the ' illusions ' tag as a way to maintain a totally unique status amongst all the other performers.

Criss is an accomplished illusionist AS WELL as a very rare adept in certain spititual realities.He can blend and meld the effects to present events that CANNOT be duplicated because no other performers ( excepting Blaine and Takayama) have the extra ability Criss has; they are illusionists only, Criss is an illusionst PLUS!! Why doesn't RANDI levitate a girl on the strip just like Criss does, just the same? Because he cannot. Why doesn't Copperfield walk up the side of the hotel with cameras rolling from top and bottom and NO wires present? Because he cannot!!

To believe that these profesionals, all clamoring for the tourist dollars, would just be happy with a secondary position to Criss forever is beyond ludicrous and you all know it. No way.There are stage magicians and stage illusionsts, and then you have THRE OTHER HUMAN BEINGS: Criss Angel, Cyril Takayama, and David Blaine. These are the ONLY three people on earth to do what they do the way they do it. This is a fact. No other human beings have ever duplicated these events because they CANNOT. If it were just props, every kid with a few bucks would be showing videos on Youtube of a very close or exact imitation.

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, right? so why does it never apply to Criss? Hmmm? Because NO ONE ELSE can do what he does, simple. And NO PROOF of anything like props or wires or payoffs has EVER been presented or alleged by a competent source, and that means that Criss is for real, and the logical and intelligent viewpoint is that which assigns to Criss the respect due a person who is using abilities beyond the mundane to perform his events. Criss does NOT USE PROPS in his high levitations and NO PROOF of such has EVER been show or alleged. That alone makes the case to anyone with critical thinking and analytical skills that takes odds into account. Done deal.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 12:17 PM
link   
I have to agree with Eyewitness86...

If Criss Angel used paid-off accomplices, it would leak out, as there are simply too many people involved.

If he used video editing of helicopters, cranes, and wires for his high levitations (along with paid-off witnesses), then there would be many other magicians doing the same thing when filmed on city sidewalks, parks, and golf courses. No one is duplicating what he is doing.

In fact, if it were all a matter of film editing and paid-off accomplices, illusionists like the late Harry Blackstone Jr. and David Copperfield would have had their own Street Magick videos out years before Criss Angel ever made it to the spotlight. Criss Angel performing feats that none of the others even attempt, points to him having something special up his sleeve (pun intended). It points to him having a special Gift that none of the others - even veteran magicians who have been in the business for decades longer than he has - can accomplish.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 12:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
I admire your efforts to explain the event, I really do. However, you must realize that as soon as you say that the witnesses are paid off, you have asked us to believe something for which no proof exists.


Eyewitness86, the minute you ask us to believe the CA is using a gift of some kind, you have asked us to believe something for which no proof exists. Why cant you see that?! To top it off, CA says it himself, he has no powers. You ask us to disbelieve the very words from his mouth, because you know better.


Over all these years not ONE employee, or witness, or anyone else, has EVER come forward to say that Criss paid them to act in an event, act suprised, act amazed, and then remain silent forever, supposedly scared to death that if they tell, Criss will sue them in court for breach of contract. Is THAT what you want us to believe?


Think about this for a second, over the years of doing these logic defying tricks, not one witness has come forward and posted, proposed, sworn or stated the awe-inspiring sight s/he saw was 100% legit. The ONLY testimony you hear is at the end of MindFreak productions. Odd isnt it?


What are the ODDS, Pavil, that ALL, 100%, of all of these paid people would remain either loyal or scared forever?


Your not seriously going to bring statistical calculations into this again are you? I thought we covered this already, you know, the part where you were unwilling to produce your statistical analysis to us, despite claiming to know what the odds of certain things were? Or did you forget?


If Criss pays off witnesses, how could he make a living on live shows?

Outside of the Luxor outdoor levitation, to my understanding, CA has not done a high levitation with a large live audience. Of course i will stand corrected when evidence is provided.



If he relies on " cranes ' that have to be ignored by the ' paid ' witnesses and then removed from the films in order to fool the viewer, then we are talking about MANY people in on the deal and to believe that ALL would remain silent forever is beyond ludicrous,

Then why have there not been legions of people comming forward for the other illusionists in the world? Unless they all have a Gift of Spirit, they someone inspired this loyalty you insist must be present.



Then, after the paid witnesses, we have the cranes and wires and all the rest that has to be moved into the golf course and set up..all the ' witnesses ', supposedly members of the Screen Actors guild, no doubt..right?


Where did we say that? Since when does hiering a bunch of people off the street, golf course, or where ever, to act as extra's in a video require SAG permission?



I mean, if Criss is doing ' movies ' using paid acotrs, the Union would demand that he use union people, of course.


Thats only if such actors are members of said Union.


The fact that no record of this exists and that none of the actors ever discuss this ' reality ' you imagine mean nothing to a denier, just another pesky fact to ignore.

A little confusing, is it your contention that you have looked into such a thing? (the SAG and its possible links to CA)


The rest of your diatribe is more of the same, baseless and fantastic imaginings that are so UNLIKELY that they stagger the sound mind when the odds are calculated.

Kind of like your diatribes with no factual basis in reality? So you have calculated the odds finally? please present them now! Ive been waiting for these figures and charts since i joined this thread! This should be good!



The odds of THEM being possible or LIKELY is so far out that no comment is needed as to the veracity of THAT proposal.Add all of the odds -defying facts to the total and what do you have?

What are the odds? Seriously, im waiting.



That is really the key: The odds are greater that Criss Angel can levitate


I swear man, you've been spouting the same line for a long time, and when asked for statistical proof, you never provide any!
Show us the odds. Show us your analysis.

It boils down to this. It is a FACT that you can levitate with the use of props. It is a FACT that you can make it look like you have no props with the use of a computer. It is a FACT that you can employ people to act shocked, surprised, or delighted. You can even get them to read a few linesabout how amazing it was and how the person didnt use props.

It is NOT A FACT that CA does not use props. It is NOT A FACT that CA does not use stooges, as violet, keymaster, and pavil have shown instances of the same person being used in different tricks (tricks you believe highlight CA's abilities.) It is NOT A FACT that CA does not use digital editing to change, alter, or splice his tricks. We have shown this with the building two building levitation anomolies video.

For the love of whatever god(s) you believe in, answer my post, point by point so as not to miss anything.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 12:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
That is really the key: The odds are greater that Criss Angel can levitate than it is that a series of totally unproven events must occur and without exception every time. What are the odds that Criss, among all men, has the ability to engender total loyalty, or fear, to an extent that would allow for Pavils theory to be true? Huh? Astronimical, that what. Then add all the other ' suppositions ' that Pavil makes and add the odds for all of them being part of the event at the same time, yet always hidden and never discovered? You have to get into FANTASTIC imagining to begin to believe the deniers excuses; to believe the truth, one need only look & think.


Well hell, if CA can levitate than, as you have implied he seems to be able to control minds too. Why can't he just mind control the people to not see the cranes? You need to work on your probability factors. The chances of my version of the events are far greater than yours, since yours is based on something that has never been verified in the history of mankind to even really exist. If you claim my odds are astronomical, then your odds approach infinity.

Still no reply to my question : Knowing what you do now about the girl in the Freemont video, do you think it is within the realm of possibility that the whole Freemont "demonstration" was pre arranged?

You are cowardly for not even replying to this question IMO. I will keep asking. That you don't answer it, implies to me, that in your heart, you know the answer but can't admit to it.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 12:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
CA says it himself, he has no powers.

Criss Angel has said that a lot of what he does is illusion and a lot of what he does is real. But when asked directly as to if he has powers when on a radio show that is run by skeptics, he replied in the negative. This comes as no surprise. When cornered on this issue, he doesn't want people to believe he has powers. Instead, he wants people to be impressed by his feats that are better than all the other mentalists and magicians so he can "laugh all the way to the bank," which is exactly what happens.

Seeing through the personality of illusionists and understanding the motivations of why magicians and politicians bend the truth to suit their purpose, is part of the challenge of unraveling the mystery of Criss Angel.




posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 01:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
CA says it himself, he has no powers.

Criss Angel has said that a lot of what he does is illusion and a lot of what he does is real. But when asked directly as to if he has powers when on a radio show that is run by skeptics, he replied in the negative. This comes as no surprise. When cornered on this issue, he doesn't want people to believe he has powers. Instead, he wants people to be impressed by his feats that are better than all the other mentalists and magicians so he can "laugh all the way to the bank," which is exactly what happens.


I understand your position Paul, but i just dont share the same opinion. In my mind your stance on this issue is a cop out. CA basically admits he has no powers, completely negating your position, and you somehow manage to make it sound as if his blatent admition, is really the opposite of what he says.

To me, thats nothing but obfuscation of the facts.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 10:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Over all these years not ONE employee, or witness, or anyone else, has EVER come forward to say that Criss paid them to act in an event, act suprised, act amazed, and then remain silent forever, supposedly scared to death that if they tell, Criss will sue them in court for breach of contract. Is THAT what you want us to believe?

What are the ODDS, Pavil, that ALL, 100%, of all of these paid people would remain either loyal or scared forever? C'mon now. That is just ridiculous to even imagine as possible or LIKELY. Remember I asked for LIKELY as a standard? And, if even ONE person were to allege or prove a payoff, it would RUIN Criss career. If Criss pays off witnesses, how could he make a living on live shows?If he relies on " cranes ' that have to be ignored by the ' paid ' witnesses and then removed from the films in order to fool the viewer, then we are talking about MANY people in on the deal and to believe that ALL would remain silent forever is beyond ludicrous, even to a die hard denier. You just cannot ask intelligent people to accept odds like that. Layer after layer of deception and always 100% effective and never caught? Right? Ahem..not likley, is it?




Rebuttal: Not one person in all the years of Criss career has EVER alleged being paid off or asked to act in a way that would be deceptive to the audience and cause an event to be seen as something other than what actually occurred.

What about the guy I found that said the entire act was staged? That means at least one person has come forward and said, "Hey, what I saw was fake."

And I quote from his reply to me.

"Of the people that are there, they are coached, on the trick whatever it may be, and some are even commissioned to be the screamer at the right moment etc."

"And both Chris and her were harnessed up, and chris didn't even make an effort to hide the fact that he was hooking his harness up to hers, and then she was able to appear to float, after take after take, my son and I got bored, disgusted, and left. The woman who was levitating, was asking people, "did it look real"? and the woman they asked to scream at the right time, was asking her husband if she sounded good."

"I mean it is ok to be an illusionist, and things, but to blatantly pull the wool over the publics eye, with trick cameras etc and pass it off as a genuine talent it unforgivable, and disgusting."




The rest of your diatribe is more of the same, baseless and fantastic imaginings that are so UNLIKELY that they stagger the sound mind when the odds are calculated. Imagine the odds for EACH of the ' scenarios ' you propose. Just the first one is beyond astronomical. Add to that the following assumptions, all based on guesses and nothing more. The odds of THEM being possible or LIKELY is so far out that no comment is needed as to the veracity of THAT proposal.Add all of the odds -defying facts to the total and what do you have?

There has been no proof of a human being ever really levitating. None. Zero. Nil. Nada. NEVER!! Except your lovely YouTube videos. Which as I have said repeatedly are not worth anything other than to waste time.

Since you keep talking statistics, the odds of a human levitating are astronomical. No one has ever scientifically proven it can be done. No one. Not your beloved Criss Angel. Not David Blaine. Not one single person. How have you convinced yourself that this is rational thought?

How can you honestly believe everything you see on the internet? How can you put belief in something which has absolutely no proof. I can introduce you to thousands upon thousands of people who can't levitate. My chances are pretty high of not finding one single person who can levitate.

You sir are a fool.

To believe what has never been proven, even once, is ludicrous. That's like my believing that even though it's never been done, I can reach into my television and grab ahold of whatever is on tv. Prove I can't do it. Show me proof.

You keep screaming about lack of proof. I shouldn't have to prove what is common knowledge. You are exactly what you call us, a denier. "No the worlds not round. If you keep sailing you'll fall off the edge. Well no, I've never seen the edge, but I saw it on YouTube."

You ignore anything that might damage this "illusion" that you're living in. That isn't just insane, actually its schizophrenic.
About Schizphrenia
Formal thought disorder. People with schizophrenia describe strange or unrealistic thoughts. In many instances, their speech is hard to follow due to disordered thinking. Common forms of thought disorder include circumstantiality (talking in circles around the issue), looseness of associations (moving from one topic to the next without any logical connection between them), and tangentiality (moving from one topic to another where the logical connection is visible, but not relevant to the issue at hand).

Sound familiar to anyone else?



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 09:31 AM
link   
edit: delete this post

[edit on 11-9-2007 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 11:26 AM
link   
That wasn't Criss that admitted to having no powers, it was one of his evil brothers who are mad because they don't have magic powers. It's true. Criss has a number of twin brothers that are out to make him look like a fool because Criss was the only one blessed with powers. How else do you explain tricks like the wood chipper, where Criss is clearly seen being pulled into a deadly wood chipper, yet he walks out of the stunt without a scratch on him? Obviously, there were two "Crisses." Prove me wrong, I DARE you! I would LOVE to see some proof that Criss doesn't have evil twin brothers who are out to get him.



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 72  73  74    76  77  78 >>

log in

join