It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

criss angel discussion...

page: 73
13
<< 70  71  72    74  75  76 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 12:25 PM
link   
Clear Guidlines of Evidence Have Not Been Established Yet

1)Video evidence is fine, so long as it is the original video.

Your analogy relys on the assumption of the judge that the video evidence being presented by an officer of the law is unaltered. The judge can safely make this assumption for the following reasons: 1) The person presenting the evidence is a sworn officer of the law/peace 2) The video has time and date stamps rendering the video difficult to forge/edit/fake 3) The video is never in direct contact with the officer involved in the case. In other words, it is the RAW footage.

The differece with your analogy and this case is simple. The video's soon to be presented by your side are produced by Criss Angel and his production/editing team to show you what they want to show you.

We have presented, in the past, video analysis that points to anomolies in the official CA video's.

As such, i want the original guideline you layed out to be amended to say something to the effect of: Video footage will be accepted if it is the RAW footage. No post production footage will be accepted as credible.

2) Witness testimony must be accompanied by verifyable information. IE name of the person, date they saw Criss, where they saw Criss, contact information, ect.

3) We need someone to actually judge this. I will not even participate if you or PR are the self decided judges of this case (as you have made youself(ves) in the past.)

Editing for format



[edit on 6-9-2007 by InSpiteOf]

[edit on 6-9-2007 by InSpiteOf]




posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 12:47 PM
link   
reply to post by InSpiteOf
 



Sorry to hear about your mother, cancer sucks, I lost my father to it.
My Sympathies



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 01:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The videos above MAY prove that some girl lied to Criss. So what? If someone steps up and volunteers to be on a show and lies to Criss and says: " We never met before ", what is Criss supposed to do, take out a Rolodex of all his fans and volunteers from the past ten years and look up names? Give us a break. That proves nothing. Criss has fans that live nearby and like to see Criss perform. Big deal.


No no no. You don't get off that easy. The girl lied? What about Criss Angel lying and staging the whole thing both times. The original levitation was in New York and the second in Vegas. You mean you actually believe the girl is not a part of it? The odds are astronomical of her being levitated twice in in two different cities, years apart. Face facts, it was not a "random" meeting, it was prearranged.

You are in such a deep state of denial about Criss Angel's abilities that you are losing any semblance of objectivity. Truth be told, I expected no less of a response, but I have proved my point with a preponderance of evidence that is available. Go ahead and tell me how the films I presented have be "edited and distorted". Unfortunately, you are the one who is distorted when it comes to belief in Criss Angel.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 01:18 PM
link   
Those conditions are totally unacceptable and you know it. you cannot expect me to find the original film from Criss Angels production company and do an exhaustive work presenting it here..nonsense!!

You are stacking the deck and it will not work. The ' officer of the law ' thing is a joke. Why would a cop be any less inclined to lie than anyone else? They do it all day long. Their word carries no automatic belief, evidence is required to validate what they say. My point in that example was to show you that making an allegation of tampering places YOU in the drivers seat as far as finding proof goes. YOU show US any proof that the videos we see are NOT representative of the truth and then we will listen.

You are doing the same old thing: Expecting your unproven allegations to stand as evidence while limiting the evidence you will consider!! YOU are the ones alleging fakery, so SHOW US SOME PROOF OF FAKERY!!

You are asking us to disprove fakery when YOU are making the allegation!! You want us, the Court, to believe you, the drunk driver, and believe that the film is tricked..or that we must prove it is not!! YOU must prove it, not us!! Amazing gaul.

I am NOT going to do the work and present a case that will be disregarded because I cannot adhere to the restrictions placed that will be impossible to perform. It is silly and ridiculous to ask me to get all the stuff you require..foolishness. No fair minded person would ask for such a limited set of conditions and they cannot be done by a person on a forum. You are being disengenuous and petty and if that is the way you operate then fine, believe what you will. Your fear of confrontation is showing. you are asking me to fight with a hood over my head while you are allowed to see, right? Real fair!!

But don't expect me to waste my time when I could not possible aquirte the necessary ORIGINAL films, and all the rest..if someone wants a strictly set up scenario, let THEM pay for it and get the stuff and do the work!! After all, it is US who are and have been waiting for ages for ANY real evidence or proof from any of you...all we get is guesses and maybes and demands that are not fair or realistic. So being that dishonest intellectually places you in a file that I will label as unworthy of the effort. You will not honestly evaluate the evidence anyway.

If anyone with a better plan chimes in, I will consider what they say. But for now, the rules that are being asked for are beyone ridiculous and anyone with any thinking ability can see that fact clearly.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 01:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Those conditions are totally unacceptable and you know it. you cannot expect me to find the original film from Criss Angels production company and do an exhaustive work presenting it here..nonsense!!

Of course their unacceptable to you, their legitimate requests. I want you to show me the original version of the feat to prove to me the original matches the TV version.



You are stacking the deck and it will not work. The ' officer of the law ' thing is a joke. Why would a cop be any less inclined to lie than anyone else? They do it all day long.

That they do, but that doesnt mean a court will not accept what they say at face value. Ive been in front of a judge enough times to know that the officers word is taken over mine, even when a lack of evidence is present.


YOU show US any proof that the videos we see are NOT representative of the truth and then we will listen.

We have, and you brush the issues raised by them off as non-issues.



But don't expect me to waste my time when I could not possible aquirte the necessary ORIGINAL films, and all the rest

That raises an interesting question. If CA's events are legitimate, then why not release the RAW footage?


You will not honestly evaluate the evidence anyway.
An acusation of bias. How quaint comming from you.


If anyone with a better plan chimes in, I will consider what they say. But for now, the rules that are being asked for are beyone ridiculous and anyone with any thinking ability can see that fact clearly.


Why is asking for original film rediculous? Beacuse YOU cant find it? Find me a court of law that will accept a video that has gone through extensive editing (even minor editing) as evidence and I will show you a goose that lays golden eggs.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 08:44 PM
link   
Unbelievable!
You conveniently and repeatedly use CA's statement "we never met before" as proof the events aren't staged, then we show you, in more than one example, this is NOT true and now the fans lie?? Get real.

Your rules aren't fair. Who appointed you Judge and Jury?
The problem wth your rules, is they only apply when you're stuck for an answer. Make up your mind what "your rules" are

NEW RULES: You shall not use any statements made by anyone in the crowds NOR this "we never met before" BS as an excuse to prove they are random fans always telling the truth, because YOU just disqualified that. The random fans are liars, therefore nothing they say means anything .. oh wait a minute, didn't WE say this already?
Or do you not want this rule? It's up to you.

Which is it? It can't be both!
Do you want A] People in the crowds are PROVEN liars.
or B] People in the crowds have ALWAYS told the truth.

As for what you have left with the videos, as I've said earlier you are in NO position to make any judgements on Criss Angel because all you watch is bits and pieces of poor quality clips. There aren't many videos on youtube showing a full version of an episode.


[edit on 6-9-2007 by violet]



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 09:25 PM
link   
reply to post by eyewitness86
 


There's a little problem with your drunk driving analogy. You see, you can fail every sobriety test except the breathalyzer, urine sample or blood work, and still be found not guilty just by hiring an attorney. You see, without actual proof, there is no case. Trust me, I've had experience in the DUI thing. First thing every lawyer tells you, admit to nothing and refuse sobriety tests. You can claim you got dizzy and fell down. The thing about the law is that the state has to prove their case BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. That means if there is any chance that they weren't drunk, the judge cannot find him guilty.

How this applies to this discussion. We have shown that he has used stooges, or as you call them, fans who lie to him. We have shown that there are ways he could perform levitations without the use of some "gift". We have shown explanations of several of his tricks. That would constitute REASONABLE DOUBT that he is actually levitating without assistance.

Video is admissable in court, as was said before, if it is the actual, raw footage. Not post production, not a youtube video, not a grainy clip of something somebody taped off television. Anybody can alter any video and post it to youtube and not worry about the consequences. Does this actually help me prove that Criss Angel can't levitate? No, but it shuts your case down completely because that is your only "evidence".

What you're asking is just plain silly. So, if I wanted to, I could take some Criss Angel footage and using CGI, place props in where there could be some and you would count that as credible evidence as long as I posted it to YouTube? I could place strings on him, I could place him walking on a bridge if I wanted. But since I posted it to YouTube, it's got to be real? Video as you want it is definitely NOT admissable, that has been my case all along.



Of course, the bulk of my case will be in video as there are not many sources for other forms of evidence. If all videos are excluded automatically because there MIGHT have been some conspiracy and there MIGHT have been some trickery...is NOT enough. MIGHT have does NOT mean DID have, ever. THAT is where the deniers always make the error; one cannot assume something NOT in evidence over something that IS in evidence.


You have finally figured it out. That without your video, you have no case. As I explained above (since you brought up the court analogy), might equals reasonable doubt. You can't send a man to prison because he MIGHT have murdered someone. You have to KNOW and PROVE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that he actually commited the crime. Until you can prove, without the use of a YouTube video, that he can levitate, actually the burden of proof lies with you.

Also, as far as the girl who was in two levitations, I haven't bothered to post them, but if you do a search on youtube for "criss angel stooges" you will find three seperate videos, one with the girl in question, one with a black guy who was at two seperate events, and one with the one "eyewitness" from the building to building levitation who was also at the walking on water. I just hadn't gotten around to posting them yet.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 09:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Here's a suggestion: Have her start taking distilled Omega 3-6-9. But it must be distilled, like the kind available here. In Canada, they found that when they put Flax Seed (the vegan equivalent of Fish Oil) in muffins and fed them to breast cancer patients, that the Flax Seed (which is high in Omega 3) did better to target and destroy cancer cells than the treatment of chemotherapy.


Dr. Johanna Budwig diet

Brazilian Coral Calcium & The Kitchen Sink multivitamin (both available here) would boost anyone's health. That should be taken by her as well, along with a very good digestive aid and Primal Defense (a Pro-Biotic).


Don't take my criticism of some alternative healing methods as a blanket statement as it may have sounded, as I read my posts again. All the points you brink up Paul Richard, in the above quote are very valid. As a whole Western society just puts junk into their bodies and then we wonder why we get sick and feel the way we do. Here's a real simple one, stop drinking pop and just drink the proper amounts of water you are supposed to. Your complexion clears, you think straighter, you skin looks better plus other great benefits just from drinking what you are supposed to and avoiding that which you should not drink. After about a week of hydrating properly, people notice you look different even.

I do believe in some alternative methods and supplements. For example, I am a firm believer in the healing properties of Silver. I have had numerous sore throats and ear aches "cured' from drinking liquid mineral supplements containing the correct concentration of silver. Tastes like, well, metallic but it really did work for me each time I used it. I basically will use it as an antibiotic, using when I get with certain symptoms. Get an earache pour a few drops in your ear with a cotton ball. Trust me, you would be surprised how well it works. It shocked me, nonbeliever that I am. Plus I have recommended it to others and they have reported the same results.

Chinese Red yeast extract is another thing someone told me about that works to reduce cholesterol just as good as many prescription drugs with none of the very noticeable side effects of some big name cholesterol fighting drugs. I don't have a use for it but I have told some people about it and they have documented tests of their cholesterol levels remaining the same with switching to the yeast extract.

Probotics also are very good to your body as well as water in the proper PH range.



I just have issues with "healers" who never let people perform biopsies on the supposed "material" they dig out of your body. I remember one special many years ago of someone in South America. The healer wouldn't let the reporter take the cotton balls used to soak of the blood, nor would he let the patient examine of keep the parts of his own "body" that the "doctor" removed from his stomach area. You could just see all the defences go up on the "doctor", you knew he was hiding something and didn't want the reporter to dig deeper.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 03:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by keymaster
Also, as far as the girl who was in two levitations, I haven't bothered to post them, but if you do a search on youtube for "criss angel stooges" you will find three seperate videos, one with the girl in question, one with a black guy who was at two seperate events, and one with the one "eyewitness" from the building to building levitation who was also at the walking on water. I just hadn't gotten around to posting them yet.


Ok, I found them , so will just save you time & post them for you.
Credits to keymaster

This one shows the black guy on two shows, the one who got the hand thru him



This shows the same girl who was wowed by the Building float, and again she is in the pool in the walk on water stunt.



This one shows that levitation girl again, also being shown a third time on another stunt, I believe.



What I truly don't get, is why does he allow himself to be caught? He is so meticulous (sp?) at putting together these stunts, but this is sloppy.

Does he hope you catch it eventually, so he can laugh at how gullible people are, then make them start to think how easily they'd been fooled? If Criss Angel can fool you, what or who else has done this to you before? Him putting the invisible thread on sale at his online store, it's almost like he wants you to find it. It wouldn't suprise me if these "clues" are in every episode. I don't believe he's that careless.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 04:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by they see ALL

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
But this is way way way off topic, i think we'll just end this conversation line here.


feel free to talk about it in another thread...

i would surely like to read what Paul_Richard has to say, as it seems he knows what he is talking about





I can -assure- you that Paul Richard is successfully channeling the 'Perpetual Motion, copper bracelet wearing quack' in this thread. He does NOT know what he is talking about, he just talks a lot. It may sound authoritative to the uninformed; that's what quacks do.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 04:46 AM
link   
I can't believe this thread has gone on for this long


HE'S AN ILLUSIONIST!!!

I suppose you all think David Copperfield, David Blaine and even Paul Daniels can all make things disapear.




posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 11:09 AM
link   
reply to post by violet
 


Thanks for posting those. Just to make it clear for anyone who doesnt' know, a stooge is a magicians assistant who pretends to be only a spectator.

I think that it's not really a question of him letting himself get caught. Every magician has assistants. The assistants are always in on the illusion. He uses more assistants than most magicians to try to fool people. However, how many people would you want to be in on your illusions? The smaller the number, the less likely your secrets would get out.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by violet

What I truly don't get, is why does he allow himself to be caught? He is so meticulous (sp?) at putting together these stunts, but this is sloppy.

Does he hope you catch it eventually, so he can laugh at how gullible people are, then make them start to think how easily they'd been fooled? If Criss Angel can fool you, what or who else has done this to you before? Him putting the invisible thread on sale at his online store, it's almost like he wants you to find it. It wouldn't suprise me if these "clues" are in every episode. I don't believe he's that careless.


I do not think he cares for this is entertainment. He is not coming off some “my tricks are real” thing he just wants to entertain like any other great magician does. The number of people who would invest the time to figure his tricks out is extremely small for most people are just delighted to watch and let Criss take them to any place he would like to. This is not a bad thing and when people want to pick a part the trick it takes the magic and skill out of it and basically ruins the fun.

[edit on 7-9-2007 by Xtrozero]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 12:25 PM
link   
i saw one recently where he comes up to a group of peeps drinking and eating and takes a girls cell and puts it inside a wine bottle....any explanation for that one. it would be an awesome trick to learn. ive seen the one where they do it with a plastic water bottle. but a glass wine bottle CA is the only one ive seen do it that way.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 01:32 PM
link   
You know, it would be really nice if Criss Angel would just drop the illusionist facade and openly perform healings once in a while. I think people would be inspired by it and he definitely has the degree of Prana to have that Gift as well



Originally posted by pavil
Don't take my criticism of some alternative healing methods as a blanket statement as it may have sounded, as I read my posts again. All the points you brink up Paul Richard, in the above quote are very valid.

Thanks pavil.

I just wish more medical doctors taught these things and were not "in bed with the pharmaceutical companies" - as our doctor of nutrition puts it.


Originally posted by pavil
As a whole Western society just puts junk into their bodies and then we wonder why we get sick and feel the way we do...After about a week of hydrating properly, people notice you look different even.

Agreed. There is also a nasty ingredient in most dark sodas called phosphoric acid, which is really bad for one's teeth.


Originally posted by pavil
I do believe in some alternative methods and supplements. For example, I am a firm believer in the healing properties of Silver...

I have come across the claims of colloidal silver before but have yet to try it myself.


Originally posted by pavil
Chinese Red yeast extract is another thing someone told me about that works to reduce cholesterol just as good as many prescription drugs with none of the very noticeable side effects of some big name cholesterol fighting drugs. I don't have a use for it but I have told some people about it and they have documented tests of their cholesterol levels remaining the same with switching to the yeast extract.

I recommend distilled Omega 3-6-9 for that problem, along with cutting out non-organic meats, taking vitamin E (which is in The Kitchen Sink multi), and eating a salad daily. One must be careful with herbs, as they can affect the body like drugs do. But if it were a choice between Chinese Red Yeast and a drug, I, like you, would go with the herb.



Originally posted by pavil
Probotics also are very good to your body as well as water in the proper PH range.

Yes, they prevent all kinds of diseases in the digestive system.


Originally posted by pavil
I just have issues with "healers" who never let people perform biopsies on the supposed "material" they dig out of your body.

There are actually a lot of healers that don't pull anything out at all. I don't like invasive surgery by doctors and I also dislike invasive healers


If there is truly a Gift there, then nothing needs to be pulled out at all.

It can just be dissolved away.


Some have been fortunate enough to have this done for them.


Originally posted by pavil
I remember one special many years ago of someone in South America. The healer wouldn't let the reporter take the cotton balls used to soak of the blood, nor would he let the patient examine of keep the parts of his own "body" that the "doctor" removed from his stomach area. You could just see all the defences go up on the "doctor", you knew he was hiding something and didn't want the reporter to dig deeper.

It does indeed sound like he was hiding something.


Wish we could send InSpiteOf's mom - and others - to see John of God in Brazil, as it might at least prolong her life. My intuition tells me that his Gift is genuine. He also has other mediums who work with him and who also channel healing energies.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 02:14 PM
link   
reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


I can't say I'm convinced CA has a gift for healing.
I do agree with your comment about the Pharmacutical companies and much of what you said about the right diet. I don't drink soda pop, or any other food that is made of chemicals, dyes & excessive amounts of sugar. I stay away from potatoe chips, crackers, etc.



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 04:04 PM
link   
It would be nice if they had health classes starting in elementary school that covered all this. Instead of having to painstakingly learn it over a period of decades, sometimes through trial and error.

Anyway, one of the conclusions derived from my research over the years is that whenever you have someone that has a Gift of Prana or Chi that is powerful enough to teleport or levitate, it also indicates a level of energy whereby a Gift of Healing is possible. Minor healings, such as those which may be termed chakra balancing, auric attunement, emotional healing, etc., that one finds at the numerous psychic fairs and metaphysical expos around the planet, don't require a large Group Entity.

Also, there are many Reiki healers but one finds that the vast majority of them do not have a Gift of Telekinesis, i.e., they can't bend eating utensils with their Chi and they can't levitate.

I am a pretty intuitive guy and have been a spiritual medium for many years, and have even felt the emotional healing energy of Criss Angel's Group Entity.

Could they - through him - instantanously manifest missing limbs or internal organs?

Maybe.

Could the Group Entity of Criss Angel manifest a Pranic healing that is more powerful than that of your typical Reiki practitioner?

Absolutely.

Could they manifest a healing as powerful as that which channels through and around John of God?

Probably not as consistently, as they are a smaller discarnate community by comparison.

Another indication that he has a Gift of Healing:

The speed with which he recovers from his self-mutilations that would land most of us in the hospital and for a much longer period


Like the self-mutilations shown in this video. (Turn the volume down or off.)

Although not the soul of Jesus/Issa, Criss Angel definitely has a Gift of Healing...

...and he knows it


[edit on 7-9-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 08:43 PM
link   
Remember a few pages ago when I came across a post on another board from a user named Oberon?

Guess what? He replied. This is what he had to say about Criss Angel.

"Hello Tim

Chris Angel is a total fraud. I would not be surprised if he did'nt even know one trick before Hollywood found him. I too was of the opinion that he must be a warlock or something, until I actually saw him in vegas. It is pretty easy to appear to have powers with the magic of Hollywood's cameras. Everyone who is there, that Chris Angel was supposedly to have ust met, MUST sign a release form, or they are very abruptly and rudely removed. Of the people that are there, they are coached, on the trick whatever it may be, and some are even commissioned to be the screamer at the right moment etc. The entire time Chris is surrounded by hair and make up people pampering him, and the shoot the trick over and over and over, with Chris getting very upset a couple times cause the camera man was moving to an angle that would allow the TV veiwing public to see. This particular trick was te levitation of a woman. As i said the entire group of people permitted to watch, me and my son being part of the group, having signed the release form were the only ones permitted to partake. The levitating woman and her husband were taken into a room and coached on the trick. And both Chris and her were harnessed up, and chris didn't even make an effort to hide the fact that he was hooking his harness up to hers, and then she was able to appear to float, after take after take, my son and I got bored, disgusted, and left. The woman who was levitating, was asking people, "did it look real"? and the woman they asked to scream at the right time, was asking her husband if she sounded good. The whole ordeal was very deflating, and a huge let down to say the least. Sorry to burst your friends or whatevers, bubble, but Chris Angel is a total fraud and it is amazing to me that more people have not uncovered him for the fake he is. I mean it is ok to be an illusionist, and things, but to blatantly pull the wool over the publics eye, with trick cameras etc and pass it off as a genuine talent it unforgivable, and disgusting."



posted on Sep, 7 2007 @ 11:18 PM
link   
reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


Hanging from fish hooks is one of his most amazing feats. I'm sure he has scars from it though. Or are you saying there are none? What other self mutilations has he done, besides the illusions?

Some people do heal faster than others. Some aren't so fortunate.



posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 09:08 AM
link   
is anyone else having trouble reading the recent posts in this thread?

THis post is really just a test. I cant read anything past a post by PR from yesterday.

Edit : Now that ive posted i can read what violet and keymaster recently posted.

Keymaster, very interesting reply and great detective work on your part. Another notch on the belt for the "deniers"

[edit on 8-9-2007 by InSpiteOf]



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 70  71  72    74  75  76 >>

log in

join