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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 09:49 AM
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I havent had a chance to review the videos in keymasters post but i can say one thing. Everytime we (deniers) post a video documenting Criss' tricks, there seems to be a short lasting silence that falls over this thread. Afterwards, the video's are dismissed without any critical analysis or point by point examination at the hands of the believers.

Violet, great source. Ive been reading some of the posts there since yesterday night.




posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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i suspect he still has me on ignore but :


Actually, no one has been able to duplicate Criss Angel's feat of flying around a golf course and his other high levitations. Granted, veteran illusionists like David Copperfield have performed the illusion of levitation, but that was done in a very controlled environment and on a magician's stage. You won't see Copperfield or any other magician flying outside as Criss Angel does, simply because they do not have a Gift of Prana, Chi, Ki, Telekinesis, whatever.


david copperfeild , grand canyon

how much more ' outdoors ' can you get ?



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I havent had a chance to review the videos in keymasters post but i can say one thing. Everytime we (deniers) post a video documenting Criss' tricks, there seems to be a short lasting silence that falls over this thread. Afterwards, the video's are dismissed without any critical analysis or point by point examination at the hands of the believers.

I've been very busy with other projects of late, but I'd be happy to offer some illumination.

First off, one must always take into consideration that any exposé video that supposedly uncovers a "trick" can in itself be the product of video manipulation.


The UFO in the upper left atmosphere of Criss Angel in the golf course video had nothing to do with his levitation. If all the witnesses were paid off (which is highly unlikely) and the wires from the UFO were erased through digital editing so that we couldn't see them on the finished film, then it still wouldn't pan out. The reasons: the sheer angle and the significant distance of the UFO in reference to the subject does not allow for a pick-up or hook-up of any kind


The pool feat has been addressed before. You had people swimming all around Criss Angel and even under him while he was "walking on water." No one else has been able to duplicate that anywhere - well, in recent times anyway.

Actually, no one of late has been able to duplicate Criss Angel's feat of flying around a golf course and his other high levitations. Granted, veteran illusionists like David Copperfield have performed the illusion of levitation, but that was done in a very controlled environment and on a magician's stage. You won't see Copperfield or any other magician flying outside as Criss Angel does, simply because they do not have a Gift of Prana, Chi, Ki, Telekinesis, whatever.

This is also why magicians like Penn & Teller, The Amazing Randi, and David Copperfield will never come out with a Street Magick video that comes anywhere close to being as good as what Criss Angel has done.

This doesn't make Criss Angel out to be a god, a messiah, or a demi-god. Only an angel prophet at most. Experienced mystics know that someone can have a Gift of Prana and not be highly evolved. Once again I cite a point from Paramahansa Yogananda: he knew of a man who could manifest flowers and he espoused that it was not a sign of spiritual attainment


It just means that he or she channels a discarnate community on the Other Side, typically in the Mid Realms. To have a Gift of Ki/Chi/Prana then is more of an indication of popularity with a group of people in the Spirit than being an indication that someone is highly evolved.

EDIT: I see that there are those who are still deceived by Copperfield's illusions. They should Google his Statue of Liberty feat, as it is a well-known trick that was done by rotating the entire audience on a huge platform. Providing the illusion that the statue disappeared.

But once again, you will not see Copperfield flying around a golf course or off of a city sidewalk.

Discrimination is the key. You get that with experience and careful analysis
.



[edit on 5-9-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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Apples and oranges, always. Invisible thread? Are you saying that Criss uses invisible thread from a cheap magic store prop to perform the levitations at the Luxor and the golf course? Of course not. You will NOT address those events in depth or with any ' videos ' allegedly disproving the event. WHY are you deniers always talking about the petty tricks and props that have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the major events?

What in the world does some prop that a kid uses on his 9 year old pals have to do with the events that Criss does? NOTHING!! Thats what. And you darn well know it. That is why you always fall back on ' suspicions ' like some girl that may or MAY NOT be the same person..even if she is, all that proves is that she is a Criss fan and goes to as many events as possible; probably lives in Vegas. So what? You offer no PROOF of any subterfuge, just the allegation that some girl was in two events. If Criss did not say " Have we ever met before?" and then the girl lied, then it is a non issue. So far no PROOF of any wrongdoing has been given.

NO VIDEOS have EVER been posted here that show ANYTHING even close to what we see Criss do. NOT ONE EVER. There is no evidence of anyone performing an similar event because no one else can do them!! Simple. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, ever heard that? If anyone could do what Criss does they would be doing it to impresss someone or to upstage Criss. It is only logical to assume that. Human nature is the same always. But yet we see NO examples of ANY high levitations, building walkings, teleportations, capturing objects from mirrors, etc. WHY? Why is it that not ONE person on this earth has ever duplicated Criss feats?

If you say it is because everyone else is too lazy, or too disinterested, you are being silly. There are TWO types of ' magic(k) performers today: There is the STAGE magician, like a Randi or Copperfield, who rely on massive numbers of props as well as sleight of hand and distraction; and then we have the performers who use and need no props for SOME events, like Criss and David and Cyril. Those are the ONLY three noted performers who are able to perform feats that CANNOT and HAVE NOT been duplicated. Sigfreid and Roy could do what Copperfield did, but they CANNOT do what Criss does. WHY? They cannot, thats why.

Showing us examples of totally different events means nothing!! Show us a video that gives us the same or similar event, done WITH props, and we will be impressed. But you cannot. You cannot because they do not exist. They do not exist because no one else can do them. See how easy logic is? Does it even matter to you that only three people on earth can do these things? If not, why not? Isn't it a bit strange that ALL other performers are unwilling to become the ' illusion ' King and allow Criss to remain on top for all these years? Isn't it a bit weird that not ONE example of a prop can be shown or proved for the high levitations, etc.? Not one inch of footage shows a prop. Not ONE witness has ever alluded to a prop.

In order to accept the denier's claims, one must make dozens of ASSUMPTIONS NOT SUPPORTED BY ANY EVIDENCE !! Occams Razor was never more appropriate than here: The simplest and most obvious answer is usually the right one; one must not be asked to suppose a number of UNPROVEN assumptions if a case has merit on it's own. No way. All we ask for is ONE bit of evidence or proof that Criss uses props in his high levitations and other certain events, and still NOT ONE example has been given, not ONE!!

Where's the beef? Remember that old commercial? Where is the substance of the deniers argument? Where is the proof? There is NONE!! All you have are suppositions and guesses totally UNSUPPORTED by any evidence at all. That is not a great case. I have shown many videos and still not ONE video of an event similar enough to be relevant has ever been given to us. WHO ELSE levitates high above the ground with NO PROPS evident or reported? NO ONE! Who else teleports in front of massive witnesses? No one!! How can that be? If all it is, is a case of props and camera angles and paid witnesses, then why has not one other human being done it to show the world the truth?

One fact is worth more than a million guesses, and all you deniers have is guesses as to how it is done..no proof. But that does not matter to you, nothing matters except maintaining your view of reality at all costs. You will point to issues that are totally insignificant and claim some revelation. You will say that all the other performers are too lazy or scared or bored to try and emulate Criss events. You will claim the most ridiculous assumptions are valid alternatives, you will refuse to see the obvious: If anyone could do what Criss does, we would be seeing it on Youtube.

You have IGNORED the videos I posted of Cyril and others, you have ignored all of the facts concerning the events, and you must do so because if you analyzed the events with an open mind and used common sense, you would see that your position is untenable, totally. But that would upset your entire outlook and view of reality and that is a tough nut to crack. THAT is why you cling to the slimmest guesses instead of seeing the obvious.

I guess the denier's are claiming that Criss Angel is the worlds most intelligent human being; he is able to amass a crew of employees that are forever loyal, he is able to locate and use props that are unavailable to any other human being since they are invisible and cannot be seen or photographed, he must be able to convince legions of paid witnesses to remain forever loyal and never reveal the tricks he uses, he must have a video production company that is able to trick us into seeing things that are not there, or making us NOT see things that are there, all while keeping the live audiences amused..RIGHT? Is that right? Is THAT what you deniers believe?

If so you can see why we have not jumped on your bandwagon, to do so would be to ignore ALL the available evidence and facts known. You deniers are just like the 9-11 official story promoters; the possibilities are just too horrible and vast to even be reckoned with. You feel better thinking that all is well and all is understandable and in order. If you were to accept that Criss can levitate, then that would send the average denier into a fit of mental torment; they just cannot handle the ramifications of such knowledge.



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Apples and oranges, always. Invisible thread? Are you saying that Criss uses invisible thread from a cheap magic store prop to perform the levitations at the Luxor and the golf course? Of course not. You will NOT address those events in depth or with any ' videos ' allegedly disproving the event. WHY are you deniers always talking about the petty tricks and props that have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the major events?


That store isnt "some store", its Criss Angels personally endorsed store. It is within the realm of the possible to believe that some, if not all, the tricks in there have been preformed by Criss. Therefore equally possible that the invisible thread was used in say, ohh i dont know, the floating light bulb tirck you so adamantly believe is proof positive of his abilities.

Also, her contention wasnt that the thread was used for the high levitations. Just for small objects. Go back and read voilets post carefully, and do so with all others from now on, spare us the knee jerk reactionism.



What in the world does some prop that a kid uses on his 9 year old pals have to do with the events that Criss does? NOTHING!!

How about the light bulb leviatation?


So far no PROOF of any wrongdoing has been given.

So far, no PROOF of any Gift has been given. Video's produced and created by CA do not count. A court of law would not accept a video that was edited by the denfense as evidence and neither will we.


There is no evidence of anyone performing an similar event because no one else can do them!!


Pure speculation. Your basing this on the fact that a video has not shown up on YouTube or Google video or the internet. You talk about us using spirious logic, where there you are, using that same logic.


Simple. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, ever heard that? If anyone could do what Criss does they would be doing it to impresss someone or to upstage Criss.


Ill go one further, if anyone had the production values and hard currency Criss has, they would duplicate what Criss does, and it would look as if no props were used. Do you have any idea of the cash that is used to produce his effects? The cash that goes into an event such as the Luxor certainly isnt all used up on camera crews, lighting, and make-up. Its used for securing actors, set-up of machinery, and most importantly, video editing!


Isn't it a bit strange that ALL other performers are unwilling to become the ' illusion ' King and allow Criss to remain on top for all these years?


The networks seem ot have a good monopoly on who gets teh spotlight and who doesnt. If someone was doing what Criss does, or even better than Criss, but they were cut out of the big picture, dont you think they would protect their investment and burry the preformer?


Isn't it a bit weird that not ONE example of a prop can be shown or proved for the high levitations, etc.? Not one inch of footage shows a prop. Not ONE witness has ever alluded to a prop.

Isnt it a bit weird that with all those "witnesses", not one had an independant camera and has posted the independant footage from it?
Isnt it strange that with all those "witnesses" to those high levitations not one of them has come forward with an independant account of what happened?

Instead all you have is this 1 tru criss angle fan, who cannot be contacted, whos story cannot be verified by anyone or any footage. Far from a credible witness.



In order to accept the denier's claims, one must make dozens of ASSUMPTIONS NOT SUPPORTED BY ANY EVIDENCE !!


As stated before, the only evidence you have provided is video's that have been produced to show you exactly what you believe in. That Criss can fly. There is no independant footage of any of CA's events. There is no independant eyewitness testimony of any of CA's events.
You have ZERO credible evidence! ZERO



Occams Razor was never more appropriate than here:

Couldnt agree with you more.



I guess the denier's are claiming that Criss Angel is the worlds most intelligent human being;

Nope, just well financed.


he is able to amass a crew of employees that are forever loyal,

Where are the employee's stating that Criss has these powers?


he is able to locate and use props that are unavailable to any other human being since they are invisible and cannot be seen or photographed,

Hardly, he probably has a design team building and creating exactly what he needs to do such events. They sure can be seen, the purpose of video editing is to trick the video audience, and its been perfectly accepted by you.


he must be able to convince legions of paid witnesses to remain forever loyal and never reveal the tricks he uses,


The only time he had legions of people watching was the luxor outdoor levitation, and as already stated, the people that watched this event could not have even made Criss out at the top of the hotel because of the sheer distance between him and the crowd.

The other events have a marginal crowd gathered. Not very hard to pay of a dozen people or less.



he must have a video production company that is able to trick us into seeing things that are not there, or making us NOT see things that are there,

He DOES have a video production company to do just that. Its stupidly simple to edit and manipulate film these days (for someone trained to do so.)



all while keeping the live audiences amused..RIGHT? Is that right? Is THAT what you deniers believe?

As i said, the only thing that constituted a legitimate live audience would be the luxor outdoor levitation. The other events have a small (VERY SMALL in comparison) gathering.



If so you can see why we have not jumped on your bandwagon, to do so would be to ignore ALL the available evidence and facts known.

What facts? All you have is assumption based on no independant footage or eyewitness testimony.



You deniers are just like the 9-11 official story promoters; the possibilities are just too horrible and vast to even be reckoned with. You feel better thinking that all is well and all is understandable and in order. If you were to accept that Criss can levitate, then that would send the average denier into a fit of mental torment; they just cannot handle the ramifications of such knowledge.


Really? We seem to be doing more digging and independant research than you are. All you have done is post video's from official sources, sounds more like you fit the believers side than we do.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by eyewitness86
 

Once again you twist what I've said.

Of course he is not using invisible thread to levitate his body. Read my post - it's for light weighted objects. The invisible thread idea came from HIS Official Store - he sells it. He endorses it. Finding this for sale in his store led me to search around for more info on what illusions it can acheive; floating cards, dollar bills, pens, etc. Some thread kits are sold with these items to practice with.

Some are more advanced than that, allowing you to walk away from the floating object and command it to move.
Google it for yourself.
Do some research for a change.
Don't just take our word for it.

Petty tricks? These petty tricks seem to convince you he has a gift.

Now onto the same person who was in two events. Well now I have counted 3 appearances by this "Gloria" girl, in last night's repeat episode of The Underwater Car Escape. In this one she doesn't interact with him, she's just standing in the crowd. This leads one to suspect that not only are the participating spectators "plants", that people just standing in the crowds are as well. To quote your words: "what are the odds?"

Of course his employees will remain loyal towards him.
The Luxor are one of his partners. You obviously lack any expertise in what goes on behind the scenes of large corporations.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by violet]



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 05:30 PM
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It's funny how all this testimony from the random crowd of people is the only thing you can come up with to argue back with, yet it EXCLUDES anything Criss Angel says himself.

You've heard him say on the Penn & Teller interview he does not have powers. PR accuses him of lying about this

It has been shown to you that these random bystanders, are not so random afterall.

On the Halloween Special he said the walk thru glass was an illusion. Refer to my previous post, if you missed this. Or watch the special for yourself. Don't take my word for it.

It's been proven, again by CA, he's bought magic props, has used them, and has constructed his own. He also sells them.

"No Camera tricks".
Is this one of his statements? You can correct me if that's wrong. I've only heard it on the show a few times. Perhaps it only applies to the Episodes it's used on?
Yet another thing to consider.

Anyways it would mean just that. Carefully chosen words: No tricks with the actual camera itself, and we can allow for this to include the camera man if that suits you, as I imagine it will. It does NOT mean NO video editing tricks. Once it's left the camera, it no longer applies. "What you see is what you get". Exactly.



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 08:53 PM
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Getting closer to finding that video. Here is one that prooves the report in the You Tube comments was accurate in some respects. It's old Criss Angel in cornrows and he levitates a girl in similar fashion to the Fremont one. Can't tell what the girl looks like from this video but at least it exists. Look about a minute in:


What's with CA looking like Sting from WCW? Just goofy.

Can't wait to see them dismiss the video when I find it.



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 09:24 PM
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Hey look, Criss Angel has the same powers as "John of God". You were right all along Paul Richard.


[edit on 5-9-2007 by pavil]



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by pavil
 

There are thousands of Reiki healers around the planet, a number of which are members of ATS. Do you wish to imply that everything they do is a SHAM?

Criss Angel was right to drop the ugly Gothic look and it was good that he shows how charlatan healers can deceive. But to state or imply that ALL healers are charlatans, that ALL psychic surgeons are fakes, is simply untrue.


How does one tell the difference between the fakes and the people who truly do have a Gift of Healing?

With the same approach that one would use in seeking a therapist, doctor, etc., - through referrals.

The people who do have a Gift of Healing stay in operation. Those who do not...can't.

John of God is not a fake and he doesn't charge for his services. He has been in operation for DECADES. If he was a charlatan, he would never have been able to do it for so long.

The point should also be made that oftentimes those who are considered to be "experts" in the medical community, often make incredible blunders in diagnosis and treatment. Malpractice suits occur all over the world. So just because someone is seeing a medical doctor does not mean that he will receive the correct diagnosis and proper treatment. There is a constant circulation of nightmarish stories of people who were misdiagnosed and who died because of a doctor's incompetence.


Moreover, if the medical community at large was not so backward, then people would not need to seek those with a Gift of Healing in the first place


So until medical doctors progress into being more helpful, more holistic, more nutritionally oriented, and more accurate in their ability to diagnose and treat illness and affliction: people with a Gift of Healing will always be sought.




posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 07:38 AM
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I havent looked at the vid pavil posted yet because im at work, but I do have to side with certain points PR made on this one.

The reason:
My mother is a registered massage, Reiki, reflexology, and holographic repatterning thearapist. To be honest, i dont follow the last one, but I have had treatments in the other schools and the do hold a legitimate (in my eyes) healing power.

Thats not to say i fully believe the Jon of God story either.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 08:14 AM
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By eyewitness86:
If the same girl is used twice it means nothing unless she is represented as being new; show that please. If not then it means nothing.


Well lookee here, courtesy of another ATS memeber who really should take credit for finding this:

Imagine the luck of being levitated TWICE by CA in the span of about 5 years and being filmed! What are the odds of that? Oh by the way, "Madeline" claims to never have met CA before. At least she still has "Bob" as her boyfriend. I hope your bike allows you to backpedal eyewitness.

First the older levitation:



Now the more current one at the Fremont:




posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I havent looked at the vid pavil posted yet because im at work, but I do have to side with certain points PR made on this one.

The reason:
My mother is a registered massage, Reiki, reflexology, and holographic repatterning thearapist. To be honest, i dont follow the last one, but I have had treatments in the other schools and the do hold a legitimate (in my eyes) healing power.

Thats not to say i fully believe the Jon of God story either.


I fully understand that there are healing methods that that moder science just can't explain that do seem to work. Psychic surgery is not one of them. There are many Charletans out there preying on the most desperate of people. More often than not it seems the more famous of these healers, like "John of God" and his ilk are frauds more than the real deal.

I believe you in that your mother can affect peoples well being from many of her treatment methods. Most of those methods I am aware of save the last. You mother doesn't cure cancers or restore damaged retinas so they see again though does she? I just looked on one of John of Gods testimonies of a lady with breast cancer. Looking on her personal website she still has the cancer, but claims all the alternative treatments have prolonged her life. I think the most powerful medicine sometimes can be someone mind and attitude when dealing with some ailments.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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The videos above MAY prove that some girl lied to Criss. So what? If someone steps up and volunteers to be on a show and lies to Criss and says: " We never met before ", what is Criss supposed to do, take out a Rolodex of all his fans and volunteers from the past ten years and look up names? Give us a break. That proves nothing. Criss has fans that live nearby and like to see Criss perform. Big deal.

What really matters is the FACT that not ONE denier has answered my questions and all of you are still running like mad away from the MAIN issues. If necessary I will place a list AGAIN of the pertinent questions that denier's never answer. If only we could pin these deniers down and make them reply to specific questions..but they slip and slide and ignore and all they can come up with is proof ( of a sort ) that Criss gets lied to now and then. great find, means nothing but I am sure that it excites you and means more than what it is..nothing.

The ' pychic surgery ' video was staged totally; in the very first frames Criss hands are not seen empty as he starts to ' plunge ' into the guys belly, the back of his hands are hidden and obviously hold the chicken livers, etc. That is an example of FILM and ANGLE manipulation to accomplish a feat that could NOT be accomplished under controlled conditions. The events we speak of, the high levitations, etc, are NOT able to be duplicated by anyone else and they can not be attributed to the same elements we see in the ' surgery ' video; totally different.

I am going to compile a list of the main issues and questions and we will see if any deniers respond. If not, then the writing will be on the wall and everyone will know that the deniers CANNOT refute our main premise intelligently and with LIKELY alternatives. The proof is in the pudding, so get your spoons ready for a big gulp.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by pavil
I believe you in that your mother can affect peoples well being from many of her treatment methods. Most of those methods I am aware of save the last. You mother doesn't cure cancers or restore damaged retinas so they see again though does she? I just looked on one of John of Gods testimonies of a lady with breast cancer. Looking on her personal website she still has the cancer, but claims all the alternative treatments have prolonged her life. I think the most powerful medicine sometimes can be someone mind and attitude when dealing with some ailments.


I wish she could cure cancer. If she could, she would have cured herself 3 years ago. Unfortunately the alternative medicines she persued for 3 years (accept surgery) did very little to cure her, to the point where her kidneys were failing and she now has a nefrostomy tube and had no choice but to undergo Chemo therapy.

To eyewtiness: I pretty much commented on your last post point by point. Granted those aren't the questions you keep throwing out but it seems you have ignored my refutations to your ascertions. Perhaps you'd like to comment on my post in response to yours. If you do, please make it point by point and direct.

Edit: typo

2nd Edit: Eyewitness, while you compile your list of questions, compile a list of the "evidence" you have. Evidence such as, independant witness testimony, independant camera footage and angles, etc.

Im sure we all eagerly await these lists.
[edit on 6-9-2007 by InSpiteOf]

[edit on 6-9-2007 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 11:23 AM
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Here is an interesting reference site which points to Reiki, Qi, and Pranic healing all essentially using the same energy (just as I espouse), just viewed from different cultural perspectives: Article on Reiki & Pranic Healing.


Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I wish she could cure cancer. If she could, she would have cured herself 3 years ago. Unfortunately the alternative medicines she persued for 3 years (accept surgery) did very little to cure her, to the point where her kidneys were failing and she now has a nefrostomy tube and had no choice but to undergo Chemo therapy.

Here's a suggestion: Have her start taking distilled Omega 3-6-9. But it must be distilled, like the kind available here. In Canada, they found that when they put Flax Seed (the vegan equivalent of Fish Oil) in muffins and fed them to breast cancer patients, that the Flax Seed (which is high in Omega 3) did better to target and destroy cancer cells than the treatment of chemotherapy.


Dr. Johanna Budwig diet

Brazilian Coral Calcium & The Kitchen Sink multivitamin (both available here) would boost anyone's health. That should be taken by her as well, along with a very good digestive aid and Primal Defense (a Pro-Biotic).

Finally, she needs to go completely organic with all her food. No preservatives, no artificial coloring or flavoring, no caffeine, no soda, no pork at all, only beef sparingly and then only beef that is organic, etc.

There are a number of medical doctors - among those relatively few who are progressive and enlightened - who promote an organic diet to overcome cancer. The approach of Dr. Lorraine Day can also help your mother, and will confirm much of the above.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Here's a suggestion: Have her start taking distilled Omega 3-6-9. But it must be distilled, like the kind available here. In Canada, they found that when they put Flax Seed (the vegan equivalent of Fish Oil) in muffins and fed them to breast cancer patients, that the Flax Seed (which is high in Omega 3) did better to target and destroy cancer cells than the treatment of chemotherapy.

Shes been using flax for a long time, same with distilled omgea 369. SHe goes for chemo, but also sees people she considers legitimate naturalpaths, and they have boosted her overall wellness and energy levels.



Brazilian Coral Calcium & The Kitchen Sink multivitamin (both available here) would boost anyone's health. That should be taken by her as well, along with a very good digestive aid and Primal Defense (a Pro-Biotic).

Shes been taking BCC for 3 years, but im not sure on the multivitamine. She takes a variety of digestive aids and pro-boitics.



Finally, she needs to go completely organic with all her food. No preservatives, no artificial coloring or flavoring, no caffeine, no soda, no pork at all, only beef sparingly and then only beef that is organic, etc.

she doesnt eat meat (save for fish and chicken and turkey on occasion) and she only buys organic foods. Been that way for a long time.

Unfortunately, my mothers cancer is very rare, something like 20k cases diagnosed world wide. Its very agressive and in its original state it wouldnt have responded to chemo. She got the orginal tumors removed 3 years ago and its hitting her hard again. At this point, its not a matter of a cure, its a matter of prolonging what life she has, and making it as enjoyable as possible. Thankfully, its been working.

But this is way way way off topic, i think we'll just end this conversation line here.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
But this is way way way off topic, i think we'll just end this conversation line here.


feel free to talk about it in another thread...

i would surely like to read what Paul_Richard has to say, as it seems he knows what he is talking about






posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 11:36 AM
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EDIT:

whoops, double post...

anyway, thanks all for participating in this thread





[edit on 6-9-2007 by they see ALL]



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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Before I do the work and compile a list of pertinent questions with videos, etc. and post it here, we should , in all fairness, establish a few ground rules so we do not waste time. Only by accepting certain conditions will we ever be able to agree on any of this.

First, VIDEO TAPE is evidence. Let me explain why. Imagine you were caught drunk driving by a trooper. His in car camera caught you weaving and crossing the yellow lines, and when you are taken from the car, you slur your speech and cannot pass the ' sobriety ' tests, and you fall down while trying to walk a line. The eyewitness, the trooper, stated that your breath reeked of alcohol and that you appeared intoxicated to him based on personal observation. OK.

You get to court and your attorney says this to the Judge: ' Your Honor, my client cannot be convicted using this evidence because the trooper might have taken the film to a lab somewhere and had it altered to depict a scene that did not occur. it is a massive set up. The troopers statements cannot be trusted because if he took the tape for tricking, his testimony cannot be trusted, now can it?
My client was sober and was framed. Video tape CAN be tricked, so we must assume that it is tricked unless the State can prove conslusively that no such tricking occurred. The defense rests ".

Can you imagine the reply the Judge would give!!?? He would say " Until and unless the DEFENSE can prove that the video was altered to depict events that did not really occur, for example by providing a witness that would testify that they observed the process, or by proof that the State had done this trickery before as a common occurrence, or by some expert testimony that established by an unbiased and qualified expert that the film had in fact been altered, then the evidence stands. Also, to infer that the trooper is lying without any proof is not only inadmissable but insulting as well.

If the DEFENSE cannot prove any of their allegations of trickery by witnesses, testimony of prior trickery under the SAME circumstances by the same trooper, or by proving film manipulation , then the film will be considered evidence and will be admitted as such . The testimony of the trooper that he has never done such trickery with film stands as the only necessary refutation needed to establish the reliability and authenticity of the video, and the evidence will be entered." GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!

So, the LOGIC is that until and unless the DENIER'S can show some evidence of trickery, such as witnesses, film experts that have analyzed the films and concluded fakery or the showing of telling evidence from video or any other source, we can assume that VIDEOTAPE is a reliable and true representation of the events depicted. Merely saying " we don't trust any film "is not sufficient to deny us the evidence we present. The burden of proof that there is film trickery is on YOU, the denier's to prove.

Since there has been NO evidence presented so far that suggests this or demonstrates it in any way whatsoever, we can assume for the sake of argument that the video evidence I present depicts the events as they occurred and as witnessed, barring SUBSTANTIAL AND RELIABLE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. That is the ONLY fair and LOGICAL way to view the issue.

Of course, the bulk of my case will be in video as there are not many sources for other forms of evidence. If all videos are excluded automatically because there MIGHT have been some conspiracy and there MIGHT have been some trickery...is NOT enough. MIGHT have does NOT mean DID have, ever. THAT is where the deniers always make the error; one cannot assume something NOT in evidence over something that IS in evidence.

Remember the court case above and the logic of it and realize that the evidence that I will show and the accompanying text will, for any open minded and logical person, prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Criss Angel does NOT use props in SOME of his events, such as the high levitations and others. That is the real issue: Does Criss use props in his high levitations and other specific events or not? I will prove to a reasonable degree that he does NOT. The deniers are tasked with proving that he DOES use props. OK? Ground rules acceptable? If so, I will present a case soon that will either result in some intelligent and likley alternatives to what I propose, or the deniers will once again be forced into side issues and ignoring the evidence, or asking us to believe outrageous suppositions over what is apparent and plain.

Remember, you denier's are just like the drunk driver asking the judge to believe the allegations without proof, and your burden will be heavy to prove collusion, conspiracy, trickery and deceit. I hope you have plenty of real and substantial evidence to back up your assertions. We will see.

Let the case begin!! Eyewitness86 and PaulRichard ( I include him without his permission assuming his participation ), et al., defending Criss Angel against charges of fakery and props in certain events, versus the DENIER's, whoever they may be, accusing Criss Angel of trickery and using props in those same events. Although the prosecution usually opens, in this case I will present our case in chief first and allow the deniers plenty of time to formulate and present their best case possible. Let the informed and open minded observers be the Judge. Fair enough? Then Court is now in session! Opening statements coming soon.



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