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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
The link you gave to a prop shop was totally NOT any proof of anything. It does NOT include the person reaching thru the glass and geting the card back!! It is totally different!! If you read the item offered, the GLASS section is included in the trick; you must use a prepared piece of glass. It is a small toy trick that might be funny at a party of drunken teens but not for anyone else and NOT under the conditions we see in the videos. SHOW US ONE VIDEO OF A PERSON DOING THE EVENT USING THOSE CHEAP PROPS YOU LINKED TO.

The glass that Cyril uses is not from a shop and it is not a 75 dollar trick; he uses the glass on a BOAT underway and UNDER WATER. How could you POSSIBLY compare the two? It is as different as day and night. The trick you linked to requires someone to use a small supplied piece of glass with obvious abilities to decive the grade school kids that might be impressed with it. It would have to be used under totally controlled situations.

On the other hand, the ' thru the glass ' events we see Criss and Cyril and David do are all PUBLIC and using glass that was already there are in place, and that could not possible have been the same as the cheap trick you mention. If 75 bucks can buy a way to do the events we see, then why are not legions of Youtube videos showing us the events being done in similar situations?In public, windows that are huge and attached to businesses..NOT some 12/12 inch toy that is meant for kids. Give us a break; if you are going to insist that what we are seeing is just a trick, at least give us something that is close to what we see and not something at a totally different level.


So even though it says "The spectator can see his card under the glass. The spectator can touch and examine the glass.
Remove the glass from the frame to confirm that the card is really inside the glass. Take the card out and hand it to the spectator so she can verify that it is in fact her selected card. She checks the torn corner and it matches exactly!", they are completely different huh? He couldn't take the same principles that apply to a small scale trick and apply on a larger, more dramatic scale? There are several tricks similar to this and different ways to perfom them. There's no way he could have put a piece of glass similar to this over one of the windows? The trick from the shop comes with a black silk cloth for no reason, huh? I guess it's just to blow your nose and not to perform. It doesn't give the reason it's included, but since it says you throw the cards at the window, one would assume that you use it during the removal of the card so as not to reveal how you did it.

This guy performs for tv as well. He probably doesn't have any financial backing that would allow for him to construct a piece of glass as the above mentioned that would fit perfectly.

You claim that though the methodology is the same as this "cheap trick", he alters the properties of glass


Cyril and the others have NEVER been duplicated, and you do not wonder why. It is because they cannot be duplicated because they are NOT using cheap tricks that anyone can buy; they are using abilities that virtually no one on earth is able to generate. THAT is why you cannot and have not given us ONE example of the events being done under similar circumstances. I could point to some business that sells harnesses and wires, but that has nothing to do with the high levitations where no props were possible, seen, witnessed, photographed or alluded to. Two different things totally.

Isn't it kinda funny how all the sudden there are so many of these illusionists performing feats similar to each other. Cyril, David Blaine, Criss Angel, just to name the three we discuss most. Now we have had no one else performing tricks like this ever. But all the sudden, the stars in the heaven must have lined up just right, and *poof* we have three of them. All with television shows. Hmmm......

The video where it shows how the high levitation was two different camera angles superimposed means nothing I guess.




Lets hear about how Cyril got the company that owns the boat to replace all their glass with the 75 dollar toy you mentioned and how the card got on the outside of that glass while the boat was moving, and with a card signed by the witness. Pavil says a scuba diver was there swimming along with the boat, and you say that for 75 bucks we can do what Cyril did there, right?

They wouldn't have to replace the glass. As I said above, another piece could be fitted right over the first one. There is no proof the card was ever outside the glass. It could have been inside the glass. The trick I offered for sale states that the witness can sign the card and even rip off a corner and the trick will work perfectly.



My God how low will a denier go to deny relaity? The most LUDICROUS and UNLIKELY excuses are the best that the deniers have to offer, how sad. Their case in chief is that we are all just too stupid to see that a few bucks and a trip to the prop store copuld allow US to perform the same events we see...Right? If so, WHY isn't it being done? TELL US WHY we cannot find ANY proof or evidence or videos of ANYONE repeating the same events WITH the props; that would shut us up. THAT would be actually convincing. But we NEVER do get any proof, do we? NO videos of anyone doing it the same way or even close..NO examples of anyone being able to perform the same events.

NO PROOF. THAT is the deniers biggest point; what does that say? Give us some proof that what you all;ege could be possible or admit defeat like a mature and honest person would.


Ludicrous and unlikely? So you're saying that our saying that these illusionists performing illusions to make you doubt what you've seen is more ludicrous and unlikely than a man levitating or another man altering the properties of glass? My guess would be that within the next two years we will be seeing many, many more people performing these same tricks. Anytime something takes off on the entertainment circuit many more are soon to follow. How many channels now have an illusionists show? They are all jumping on the bandwagon. Of course there is no video of people performing the better illusions. They are a closely guarded secret. The magicians have a code of conduct not to reveal their secrets.




posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
...

I'm not sure you read what I actually say! I never said I'd experienced a failed healing done on me. I have never gone to a healer. I said I know some people who are healers and have known of people who have (unsuccessfully) used healers. I know of people who have "healed" without using a healer.



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
No matter HOW MUCH proof we give the rabid deniers never will admit the obvious; they would rather deny than open up and that is a condition that no one


The big problem as with all the other video is they are videos for amusement. This one is off a magician site for magician tricks. I know posters like eyewitness86 will post massive posts on how real it all is, but please put a little more investigation into it other than just TV shows…please



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 08:02 PM
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Criss Angel Glass Tricks and Walk Through Glass

I am just watching the Mindfreak Hallowe'en Special.
CA is back in his home town of Long Island, and visits a magic shop he used to buy all his tricks at.

He picks up this small glass trick, that he'd used back as a child. He showed how the card behind the glass worked, tapping on glass, putting a pencil thru it etc.

Then he says how this stupid little glass trick inspired him to improve on it to do the Walk Through Glass Trick. The walk thru glass scene is shown.

So here again is evidence by CA himself saying these are magic tricks / illusions.

I will try to find a video online of this segment



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by violet
I'm not sure you read what I actually say! I never said I'd experienced a failed healing done on me. I have never gone to a healer. I said I know some people who are healers and have known of people who have (unsuccessfully) used healers. I know of people who have "healed" without using a healer.

Many people do indeed get a healing directly from Spirit. I have and I know of other people who have as well.

Sorry for overestimating you. You have less experience in the subject matter than I assumed.

You need to go out and experience the energies that people channel for various purposes.

Then you will be able to come in here and provide an informed perspective.

Just how old are you anyway?


Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Hmmm...

Do I believe levitation is possible? Yes. There are accounts of it through history, by the yogi's and other people who did so under not so controlled conditions. Do I believe CA has that ability? Not sure-I sort of lean towards no, but anything is possible IMHO.

I definitely enjoy watching his show each week though-It's great entertainment.

Thanks for chiming in with an intelligent, informative, and open-minded post.





posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
please put a little more investigation into it other than just TV shows…please

I am sure that we would all like to hear about your more in-depth investigation.

Certainly, you can up with something better than TV shows and websites that only explain CA's less impressive feats.

Then again...maybe not.



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by Badge01
 

I also have a number of terms that you and he would not know about.


But in addressing the main issue you bring up:

NEWSFLASH: The Chinese don't hold a monopoly on Chi.

Never did...never will.


That same energy has been channeled by other cultures around the world for time immemorial and is called by other names other than Chi. For example, the Japanese call it Ki, the Hindus call it Prana, Catholics call it The Holy Spirit and many Judeo-Christians simply refer to it as God or Jesus. It is all one and the same thing - God Force in the Spirit - and there have been many miracles of healing, telekinesis, and the creation of food that have come from those same energies of various different names.

Since you claim that your friend, a one Chen Xiaowang is "the inheritor of the Chen system of Taiji and the most authoritative expert on Qi," then I have an inquiry for him.

Ask him to use his Chi or Qi - if he can indeed do this - to discern who will win the war when his imperialistic and communistic government attempts to invade the Republic of Taiwan in 2008, which was confirmed via a public statement by a Taiwanese general months ago


We would love to hear what he has to say about that.


If he is such an expert with the use of Qi, then this key question (pun intended) about his nation should not prove to be beyond his expertise


Then again...maybe it is.




posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Sorry for overestimating you. You have less experience in the subject matter than I assumed.

You need to go out and experience the energies that people channel for various purposes.

Then you will be able to come in here and provide an informed perspective.

Just how old are you anyway?


You're asking ME how old I am?!
How old are you, 5?
Nice try.

From what I see, you have very limited knowledge of the things you claim to be an expert on, your "informed" way of thinking is actually quite primitive.

[edit on 2-9-2007 by violet]



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
OK Pavil, here you are, a video of Cyril making a card go thru a massive business window in front of many witnesses, and the card is facing out this time!! After you were bold enough to suggest that there is a trap door in the window of the sightseeing boat, CLEARLY UNDERWAY to anyone that can see the motion of the water and bubbles, I should disregard much of what you say; that is simply silly and you know it. There is NO way a trapdoor could be in a glass windowed sightseeing boat and to assume so is nonsense.


I do not contend there is a trapdoor on the boat, not sure where you got that. There could be some sort of rig on the outside near the glass however. If the boat is moving I will take your word on it, I haven't bothered to look at the video again for that particular detail, it really doesn't bother me one way or the other. You believe what you like.

As for the video, this is one of Cyril's first versions of the card through glass trick. You can see how through the three versions of it, he has added his own stamp to a common magic trick and progressed the whole trick. Yes, it wll come to a shock to you but other magicians have performed the exact same trick you show in that video. I am not refering to David Blaine either. Just because they don't have the trick on Youtube doesn't mean dozens of other magicians have performed the same trick.


Here is Cyril altering the molecular structure of elements, proven and plain. Any way of getting around this one will sound insultingly ridiculous, I am sure: The interior of the building can be seen quite well and is empty. The exact card with signature is inside the window facing out. What more could anyone want?


How is him altering the molecular structure of elements proven and plain? You are just plain daft sometimes. Sorry, your tired "I know better than the rest of you heathens cause I said so" routine has worn out it's welcome with me. You spout utter nonsense as if it were common and accepted belief.



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 11:20 PM
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I found this link for a book that may be of interest to some. You need to view it in IE.
Telekinesis

Before you jump all over me, I haven't read enough of it, just found it. So I honestly can't say if I agree with any or all of it.



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by Xtrozero
please put a little more investigation into it other than just TV shows…please

I am sure that we would all like to hear about your more in-depth investigation.

Certainly, you can up with something better than TV shows and websites that only explain CA's less impressive feats.

Then again...maybe not.



I really care little for the guy other than out of amusement. I know some of you cannot be convinced no matter what the facts are. I said that statement not to debate any longer but to hope you do not sell the farm and move outside his house before you see more than a TV show. I'm not arguing whether he is real or not anymore, but I hope you all look harder than you been. The burden of proof as you will is in your hands and that might take much more investigating from all angles. One such angle is Magician tricks, and this seems to be a topic that you all totally write off as not a factor and it might be in your best interest to dwell deep into it just to make sure you are totally right.



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 11:34 PM
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So, Pavil tell us how they pulled this one off.


Again I am not a magician. I don't know every little nuace of a trick. What I will do is look on a magicians board and find out what they say about the trick in general. I remember reading about someone talking about David Blaines version of it in a restaurant and how it was achieved.

One thing that stricks me as odd on the Cyril video is how the card seems to float in midair, it's almost if Cyril's hand is behind the position of the card. That tends to lead me to video projection of the card, but I thingk that effect might be due to the youtube version of it. I will look for info as I find time. Please don't go congratulating yourself as winning this one, I am just very tired at the moment.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 09:33 AM
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It MUST be tiring to always be called out and never being able to respond intelligently and with evidence backing up your claims. You still have not said anything but " I haven't watched... ' or some other EXCUSE for not being able to answer my questions. You STILL have not given ONE example of anyone else on earth duplicating the ' card thru glass ' event under similar conditions: witnesses at arms length, glass that is already attched to a business or obviously too large for the toy that you refer to..film showing the events with NO evidence whatsoever of any props, tricks, or assistants.

It is really pathetic; it really is. Deniers muttering and hemming and hawing while we stand here and just point to the proofs over and over, waiting for intellectual honesty..and never getting it. Now we are back to ' its all films..and maybe films are all of some magic trick"..NONSENSE!!

Criss did NOT say that it is all tricks!! Show me where he says this. He says he is INSPIRED by a cheap trick to do a major event, and you call that some confession that all he does is a trick? Are you serious? That is DISHONEST and silly and you darn well know it. The PROOF is in the FACTS and the FACTS have not changed since the first pages of this thread...go back and read thru this whole thing and what do we see? the SAME old useless, disproven and silly escuses we see now.

Rather than give evidence and proof, you are still asking us to IMAGINE and TRUST and DENY our critical discernment abilities and we will NOT!! If you wish to sound desperate and vacant then so be it, but we cannot. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, NONE, that shows any props, assistants, film tricks or paid witnesses, NONE whatsoever. It does not exist, if it did you brilliant deniers would have pointed it out already, but alas, you have not. The most ridiculous and far out imaginings are the stock in trade of the denier and you should be ASHAMED of yourselves for promoting a theory that you have ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE FOR.

Pavil; HERE is the quote of you saying that there is a trick glass on the boat:" Posted by Pavil: You don't even need a diver out there you just need a mechanism to slide the Plexiglass plate with the card in place and then move it at the end." SLIDE THE PLEXIGLASS PLATE ".. WHAT Plexiglass plate? The one that Cyril had installed on the boat just prior to sailing? Please. Don't insult us. If it is so easy to do, WHY in the world has NO ONE else done it? Can you answer that? Oh, yeah, its because not everyone films their duplications of these feats and puts them on Youtube, right?

See how silly it gets? See the depth that the deniers will sink to to try and assuage their lack of perceptions? Sure, Pavil , there was a scuba diver swimming with the boat, albeit invisible. Sure, there was a ' sleight of hand ' that allowed the water to soak the towel and the card on the outside was really NOT on the outside despite the witnesses rubbing the window and verifiying that it was in fact outside. You ask us to DISREGARD MATERIAL REALITY IN FAVOR OF BELIEVING YOUR NONSENSE!! You ask us to IGNORE the evidence and proof and just accept what you say ' just because you say so! The nerve.

You deniers sound like a kid caught with his cheat sheet in a class by the teacher: All they can do is tell blatant lies, stutter and stammer, or try and insist that the cheat sheet really isn't what it seems to be!! It really is the study notes that somehow just happened to get into his shoe!! See, when he got up this am he put the study notes in his pocket but his shoe had a hole, which now has mysteriously healed itself, and so he had to stuff the notes in the shoe to fill the hole so he could get to school on time. He was amazed to find the shoe healed in class ( Thank you Jesus!!) and so he was just removing the notes from the shoe as they are no longer needed to fill the hole..see? THATS why they were in his shoe and why he was taking them out!! See? A sensible explanation, right?

It is the same thing: The deniers are asking us to be the teacher that believes that hogwash; what else can one say when caught red handed? Well, an honest and morally upright answer would be " Hey, I got caught and am ready to take the comeuppance for my errors". THAT would be worthy of some respect at least. It demonstrates character and a desire to not insult the intelligence of the observer by using totally spurious excuses and expecting them to pass as legitimate answers.

Other than Pavils incredibly nonsensical replies, we have had NONE that answer the questions. At least I can respect Pavil to a degree for at least TRYING to come up with an alternative, no matter how weak, but at least he is not ignoring the main points as are all other deniers so far. What is really telling is the FACT that if we read back thru this thread, the deniers replies have NOT changed one iota; still as weak, still as lacking in ANY evidence at all, still as far out and UNLIKELY as ever. They never change and they never satisfy.

We have utterly defeated the deniers on a debate basis as they have proffered NOTHING that substantially proves a refuttaion of our claims. Nothing. There has not been ONE reply that has dealt effectively with the main issues: The high levitations and teleportations and certain other events that cannot be explained away by the assumptions and allegations that masquerade as evidence for the denier's.It is like standing on a summit and watching as the contenders of the heights scramble and scratch their way toward the top, only to slip and slide all the way back down when they hit that patch of PROOF AND EVIDENCE that mounts an inpenetrable obstacle for them: They cannot gain any footing on a slippery slope, and so they are ice skating uphill..frantically pumping the legs while sliding back down hill..

I showed this thread to a buddy and asked him for an honest comment. He has no opinion about Criss..but he said " Why haven't the Deniers come up with some hard evidence? Why no tapes of props? Why no witnesses telling about being paid? Why no ways given that could explain the events in a likley manner? Why no videos of others doing the same events WITH props? All he had were WHY's for the deniers; I explained to him that the deniers just IGNORE all of those questions and just repeat their mantra over and over:" Its all tricks, its all tricks " like a hypnotic chant until thats all they can say.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Pavil; HERE is the quote of you saying that there is a trick glass on the boat:" Posted by Pavil: You don't even need a diver out there you just need a mechanism to slide the Plexiglass plate with the card in place and then move it at the end."

And no where do i state that it is a trapdoor. It would be a sheet of plexiglas that would slide down the exterior of the glass and make it "appear" that the card that was inside was that card. In reality it would be another card torn the exact same way.



Don't insult us. If it is so easy to do, WHY in the world has NO ONE else done it? Can you answer that? Oh, yeah, its because not everyone films their duplications of these feats and puts them on Youtube, right?


It hasn't been done because Cryril is the developer of this "twist" on the trick and has not shared it. Most magicians will not share their signiture tricks with other magicans. Quite honestly, I am not completly sure how he does it, but I am confident he is not changing the atomic structures of elements with his "power".

I have never said it was easy to do and I am quite confident that those tricks take substantial setup times. That would be another reason no one else can duplicate it. How many magician in the world have the team of people around them that Cyril, Derrek Brown, David Blaine and Criss Angel and other Vegas and Branson Magicians do? That is a professional group of probably less than 100 worldwide that have the resources to pull some of these tricks off. Take a look at Criss Angel's Mindfreak credits sometimes look at the amount of Special effects and Stunt directors involved, that is where you find out what is going on. I could be mistaken but in my limited research on those people I found some that did do some "wire work" as well as many other stunts in their resume.



Sure, Pavil , there was a scuba diver swimming with the boat, albeit invisible. Sure, there was a ' sleight of hand ' that allowed the water to soak the towel and the card on the outside was really NOT on the outside despite the witnesses rubbing the window and verifiying that it was in fact outside. You ask us to DISREGARD MATERIAL REALITY IN FAVOR OF BELIEVING YOUR NONSENSE!!
Yes, the nerve of me. I have stated two ways the "card" could appear on the outside. We never actually see the face of the card just the back. I have never contended that their isn't a card out there, just that is it no the card in question. That is fact.

Do you have any idea of the water that would come in the boat if there were even a momentary "hole or gap" in the glass? That is material reality as you put it. I can be cofident in saying a towel wouldn't help you "plug" the hole with only a little bit of water coming in.



You ask us to IGNORE the evidence and proof and just accept what you say ' just because you say so!
Isn't that what YOU are asking. The only proof you come up with is the video documentation of trick produced by the magicians own production company. Of course there are not going to be many tell tale signs, they are going to edit out anything obvious, as evidenced by the extreme amount of shot cuts in many of the videos. Magicians use misdirection and you sir have swallowed the hook.
I notice you still haven't come up with ANY eyewitnesses to CA's "high Levitations".....wonder why. Not one of the witnesses felt compelled to tell their 'story" outside of the Mindfreak episodes.

Btw, I am going to search for the video that will not be able to be dismissed . It is an old CA video from one of his earlier ABC family specials. He is wearing conrows in his hair supposedly and the girl he levitates is none other than the same girl he levitates at the Fremont. What are the odds of CA running into the same girl twice "never meeting before" of course, then levitating her? Hopefully I can find it. Others can feel free to search for it as I will be very busy this week.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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YAWN..Pardon me. We are always hearing about the PROOF that shows us that we are just too stupid to see the obvious as you do..yet it never seems to make it here. It is always something someone saw sometime back..sounds really convincing.

If the same girl is used twice it means nothing unless she is represented as being new; show that please. If not then it means nothing.

As far as the glass and the boat..Pavil..please lets be sensible. Look at that video and tell me that you see someone sliding the plexiglas on that boat to the side. Tell me that you see that window exhibit ANY signs of being other than a standard high pressure glass used for extreme conditions; it is underwater for Gods sake!! It is all one piece. There is NO proof of that glass being any different than the others, all one piece glass and with NO HOLES or slides or anything else. Watch the video again. It is clear and plain. The witness takes her hand and wipes across the card and it is on the outside!! You griped that the card was facing away..dear God..how petty.Denying ALL of the critical factors and desperately clinging to the most petty element to try and hold on to your denials.

Then, I present you with a ' card thru glass ' event that has the card facing outwards and you totally ignore that one!! Not even mentioned, eh Pavil? Why not? You said that the card facing in was a big deal and now that we give you what you asked for, what is the excuse there? Of course you will find some nitpicking and irrelevant side issue to keep the illusion going, right? There are ILLUSIONS, and there are DELUSIONS, and those who cannot tell the difference between an illusion and a real chi'kinetic event end up deluded and not infofrmed. Sad.

The deniers are sounding more and more desperate and frantic in their efforts to maintain an illusion of a world that can all be explained and accounted for and labeled neatly and comprehended fully. It is a psychological predisposition that no amount of evidence can persuade; it is a morbid and chronic state of denial that transcends all reason, logic and proofs. " The earth is flat!!", " The sun moves around the earth!!", " My country right or wrong!!". " The only good Commie is the one's that are dead !" Bush is a good man!!" " 9-11 was an attack by the A-rabs!!" "..and of course: " People can't lift off the ground! Gravity holds us here!!".

See how time and education can alter perceptions? It used to be normal to be a racial bigot in this nation, it used to be ' cool ' to smoke tobacco..and some day when kids are taught that gravity is not unchangeable we will see kids levitating in the school talent shows!! If one cannot believe in the other side of reality, how can they possibly be expected to comprehend it or accept it? First the veil must be torn away, and only then can the vision be clear.

Since you cannot see the props, yet assume they must be there, you are denying your own sense and logic and that causes a confusion that must be sublimated with denials to assuage the issues confusion causes. A psychologist would say that a person that continuously denies the evident and proven reality before him in favor of unsupported suppositions and guesses is a disturbed and confused person. If someone like that sees an event, and that event challenges their preconceived notions of reality, then they simply deny that the event was what they saw and tell themselves that they are simply unable to discern the event but that it does not matter!!

The denier does not MIND that they are unable to prove their point; they feel that invisible proof and supposition are the EQUIVALENT to evidence and the facts!! Amazing!! Who are you going to believe, the deniers or your lying eyes? THAT is the essence of it all; remember the scene from CHICAGO where the Asian lady comes in and finds her guy in bed with two lovelies and pulls a pistol on him ? The guy desperately tries to tell her that the women are not there!! He says " Babe, are you going to believe me or what you see?" That is the EXACT same thing the Denier's are saying to us!! Astounding gaul!!

The deniers say " What are you going to believe, all of the videos and witnesses and years of success at staging events that have never been duplicated..OR will you believe us, who are assuming and guessing and still have no proof or evidence for our position ". Who would ANY intelligent person believe? He would believe the people that are saying " Look!! Right here!! Here is the proof, NEVER refuted, NEVER disproven, with NO hint of props and no HINT of paid employees or witnesses..videos that show it all plainly".

We are asked to believe nothing versus what we see. They are asking us to see things that are NOT there as opposed to asking us to believe things they can point to. the deniers have had not one single " AHA!! " moment yet in all these pages. No breakthroughs, no witnesses alleging pay offs, no proof of video tampering to trick the viewer, no one on earth able to duplicate the same events..it staggers the sound mind to imagine that the deniers really expect us to treat their guesses seriously. Without any hard proof, they are left to stammer and stutter and nip at the edges of non-issues in order to keep the fallacy alive.

They just cannot handle ' what it means ' for levitation to be real. it would upset their minds and psyches too much and so denial takes over. No reason, no logic, no proof, just wild guesses supported by nothing. Thats a pretty sorry state of affairs for someone to have to defend. So far no one has defended it at all, certainly not in a convincing manner.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by eyewitness86
 


Where did I say that ALL of CA's magic acts are illusions and magic props? I also did not say HE said all were. I said here is evidence he has said the glass tricks and the walk thru glass (you believe are chi tk) are illusions.

Even if CA has special gifts, where is your evidence he channeled it from the source you claim it to be originating from?
Prove this.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86

If the same girl is used twice it means nothing unless she is represented as being new; show that please. If not then it means nothing.
We shall see. It is amazing that you will still blow that off. The same girl being levitated maybe 3-5 years apart is not strange to you. WOW. What exactly do you think the odds are of someone being levitated by CA twice in a span of 5 years and being "never met before" both times? You keep drinking the kool aid, ok?




As far as the glass and the boat..Pavil..please lets be sensible. Look at that video and tell me that you see someone sliding the Plexiglas on that boat to the side. Tell me that you see that window exhibit ANY signs of being other than a standard high pressure glass used for extreme conditions; it is underwater for Gods sake!! It is all one piece. There is NO proof of that glass being any different than the others, all one piece glass and with NO HOLES or slides or anything else.


Perhaps I have not made myself painfully clear. Yes the glass present there is real and the same as the others. I just contend one of the ways they could have done it was when the cards are shooting at the window is to move a Plexiglas sheet right on that window from the outside with the card already on it. I don't exactly know as I have told you, but Chi TK has a probability of .00001% of being the cause, if even that as no one has ever even produced and evidence it exists, other than magicians films.


Then, I present you with a ' card thru glass ' event that has the card facing outwards and you totally ignore that one!! Not even mentioned, eh Pavil? Why not? You said that the card facing in was a big deal and now that we give you what you asked for, what is the excuse there?
Still nitpicking. The two tricks while looking similar are not the same. The card never left the boat in the boat trick that is why you never saw it from the other side. The office trick is one many magicians have done and involves a different method of getting the card there. That is why I didn't comment on it. You are confusing two similar looking tricks that have different mechanisms. Still no comment from you why we never see, the other side of the card in the boat trick. If Cyril can do it in the office and fish tank, why doesn't he duplicate it on the boat? Seems out of place to me, but I am sure it is irrelevant to you right?






Since you cannot see the props, yet assume they must be there, you are denying your own sense and logic and that causes a confusion that must be sublimated with denials to assuage the issues confusion causes.


Umm what about movies, do they reflect reality? I never see props there so it must be real to use your logic. I am sorry but prearranged tricks done by a magician and filmed and edited by his own production company is just a movie to me. They (the magician) gets to dictate the reality I get to see just like a movie director does. Have Criss Angel do his high levitation live at a spot chosen at random with all the major news channels filming it with their own cameras filming all angles and then I will believe. Till then it's just a movie.

That you believe the movie to be real life is sad, IMO.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
If the same girl is used twice it means nothing unless she is represented as being new; show that please. If not then it means nothing.

It means enough. And should be a start for you to at least consider.

He doesn't say "we never met before" each time, but he's said it enough times, that the viewers will automatically think it applies all of the time. You are one of these types of viewers by the way.

Your "eyewitness testimony" of these spectators, who appear in his demo's on an Entertainment themed Television Show starring an Illusionist is enough for you to conclude without a shred of doubt it was a genuine demonstration of a "gift".

The same "fan" I spotted on two seperate shows (not the one Pavil hasn't found yet), may not have got the "we never met before" from CA. You might notice he is careful who in the crowd he says it too. She was acting. If you can't pick up on that, that's your problem. She was not some random fan who follows him around. The youtube clips you watch, cuts off the rest of the interaction with her.

I guess all these spectators have never been instructed what to say? They are all inclined to yell "Mindfreak" at the same time? Have you ever been on a television show set? I have, and we were told when to laugh, applaud, oooh & aaah, be quiet, etc. Even when it was nothing to applaud, it's naturally the polite thing to do anyways, isn't it, wouldn't you? You can't leave the set until it's finished. We were coached before filming what the hand motions and cues would mean, and how we were to react. It was a very tedious and controlling environment.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by violet]

[edit on 4-9-2007 by violet]



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 12:03 AM
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No one else is performing large scale levitations? What about good old David Copperfield or the Pendragons? They perform levitations as good as anything that Criss Angel does.

Here's David Copperfield performing levitation.

Or how about the Magician Maritess?

Let me guess, they all have magic powers as well?

Since the only thing Mr. Eyewitness believes is video here's a few.

Golf Course Levitation Explained
Part 1


Part 2


Part 3



Criss Angel walks up a building explained



Criss Angel walks across water explained


Or

Another video explaining the walk across water trick. This video doesn't allow embedding.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 02:48 PM
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Levitations

For the levitation of small or light-weight objects, Invisble Thread is used.
You can buy Criss Angel's
Invisible Thread Kit via his Official Store.

There are also other devices for larger objects, not for sale at this Store..

High Levitations


... However, as a magician, I am bound by the Magician's Oath to not reveal the secrets of any trick or illusion. Let me leave you with this: It does involve a magnet, but the magnet does not perform the actual levitation. If you figure it out, you will probably be disappointed for taking it so seriously


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