Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In the acts I have attended, the magic tricks were far beyond my ability to even offer a possible method they were done. But, I understand the skeptics, their position is rational. It is one thing to discount something, but another thing completely to explain exactly why it is not real. To deny without an alternate solution is rather tenuous.
Magicians do stuff that their most vocal, intelligent critics cannot explain.

I am a magician myself, and when someone cannot "offer a possible method" to how a trick is done, you know you are doing your job.

Chris angel's methods are an accumulation of others' methods i shan't go into here... but if you want a starting place, try looking at: Banachek, and luke jermay.
You can buy ONE of his levitations features on the show, from a dvd priced $100. You can read quite a few magic books and buy other dvd's from other magicians, at high prices and you'll find the impossible much more possible.
None of these people are really magic, they are "magicians" - big difference.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In the acts I have attended, the magic tricks were far beyond my ability to even offer a possible method they were done. But, I understand the skeptics, their position is rational. It is one thing to discount something, but another thing completely to explain exactly why it is not real. To deny without an alternate solution is rather tenuous.
Magicians do stuff that their most vocal, intelligent critics cannot explain.

Not being able to explain a trick doesn't make it real magic. It just means that someone doesn't know the secret to the trick yet. There are hunderds of examples where magicians buy a trick from someone else because they can't figure it out on their own, do you think they would pay for it otherwise?

Originally posted by johnjohnjohn
Not being able to explain a trick doesn't make it real magic. It just means that someone doesn't know the secret to the trick yet. There are hunderds of examples where magicians buy a trick from someone else because they can't figure it out on their own, do you think they would pay for it otherwise?

I agree in that much of the act of a magician is sleight of hand, distraction, smoke and mirrors, etc. I know that not knowing how doesn't make it magic, but it is also the case that if one trick is not magic, it does not prove that another one is not as well. Whether one believes or not is not my concern, I believe. My reasons for that are far more than attending shows, though.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I agree in that much of the act of a magician is sleight of hand, distraction, smoke and mirrors, etc. I know that not knowing how doesn't make it magic, but it is also the case that if one trick is not magic, it does not prove that another one is not as well.

Of course not. But what never ceases to amaze me that if someone can show or explain a way in which a certain trick can be performed as well -just as a trick-. Doesn't stop some persons to insist that the case in which they saw the exact same performace couldn't still have been real magic. Why assume that something can be real magic if the accomplishment can be the same with a simple trick?

It is true that a cake could have been transported by an alien to earth. But as long as a local bakery can bake the same cake, it isn't very reasonable to assume so.

Whether one believes or not is not my concern, I believe. My reasons for that are far more than attending shows, though.

Could you give an example? I'm honestly interested in your experiences.

A few months ago, while I was visiting my fiance in hospital, where she was still rehabbing from a severe brain injury, she looked at me with wide eyes, and said "See the ducks in the park.", i said when you get better, we can do that, she shook her head, wide eyes, trying to make her point, "see the ducks in the park." she said it at least three times, and then dropped it. I replied the same way as the first each time, but knew I was missing something. This was at a time when 3 word sentences were rare for her. the norm was one word. Pudding, More, Hi, etc. I went online after I got home about four hours later and checked out the posts at a webgroup that I had requested prayers for her from, and had been blessed to receive many. A woman who I had been in contact with from Portland Oregon (250 miles south of here), had a message for me. "K., did E. mention seeing the ducks in the park, cuz she really enjoyed it?" This friend
wrote that on her lunch break when she went across the street to the park and fed the ducks, my fiances spirit visited her and enjoyed the visit. I wouldn't have believed that, except for the fact that she did mention it, three times. I replied to her question. 'yes, she did.'
I did not see any rational way this could have happened, but it did.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
A few months ago, while I was visiting my fiance in hospital, where she was still rehabbing from a severe brain injury, she looked at me with wide eyes, and said "See the ducks in the park.", i said when you get better, we can do that, she shook her head, wide eyes, trying to make her point, "see the ducks in the park." she said it at least three times, and then dropped it.

Well, I respect your experience and you should value it. My rational mind however forces me to think about a possibility of chance here. May sound far fetched, but a non-rational explanation is at least equally far fetched.

mod edit: shortened quote

[edit on 31-1-2006 by sanctum]

The 'ducks in the park' thing is too specific in time and detail for me to see as coincidence. Others may choose to, of course, though they weren't there so it does not concern them as it does me. Here is another coincidence that I feel the same way about, though both are possibly just coincidences.
I used to work with a fellow who's wife died of lung cancer, though she was a nurse who never smoked. After she passed on, he raised their two daughters as a single dad. It was about a year from her diagnosis until she was gone. Around a month before she passed on she told him that she was going to send him some kind of a sign. He is a very honest, family-oriented, devout Catholic, and I honestly cannot see him lying about something this serious. Then, from her hospital bed a week before she passed on, she told him she knew what the sign would be....lightning.
I have only been to one funeral in my life, and it was scheduled for 1 P.M., one Saturday, at a local Catholic Church. As we arrived it was pouring rain out, really hard, the sky was completely filled by very thick, very low overcast clouds, and it made midday as dark as if it was dusk. We sat down, got settled in, and then boom, thunder, and the lights in the church went out for a couple of minutes. My friend told me that when the thunder struck, he immediately looked at his watch and, by coincidence, it was 1 o'clock on the dot. After the funeral was over we came out to find there wasn't a cloud in the sky; I looked in every direction.

Most of Criss Angel's tricks are illusions, but the real tricks require a lot of concentration and mind power which I dare anyone to say they know about. Do your research, look at history and which I guarantee you will find massive amount of supernatural cases even fake audience and wires couldn't fit in.


[edit on 31-1-2006 by sanctum]

I agree that things such as a saint levitating in front of 60 000+ people can be found in the books. But, I have a more tactile method. I have seen David Copperfield live three times, once from the seventh row. When he does that stuff twenty feet away, it is much more impressive than when it's on tv. I have seen him get cut in half, make himself and the motorbike he was on vanish and reappear in the middle of the audience, and last time, fly around. No camera trick or paid audience answer works for me.

Originally posted by johnjohnjohn
Well, I respect your experience and you should value it. My rational mind however forces me to think about a possibility of chance here. May sound far fetched, but a non-rational explanation is at least equally far fetched.
[edit on 31-1-2006 by sanctum]

That is great, I totally understand. But I have come to a different conclusion. It is not my purpose to try to convince anyone of anything. You could be right. If I were to list all the reasons for my choice, they would number in the dozens. I have a hard time with the 'one-off, anecdotal evidence' solution, when the one-off's become so numerous.
I may be a fool, so be it.

I just watched the David Blaine drowned alive special, where he tried to hold his breath for 9 minutes. He only did 7, which is still pretty good, but it is the first time I have seen someone of his caliber (Angel, Copperfield)miss their goal. I used to be open to the chance that cameras and paid audiences were a possible answer to the more outrageous illusions... but having seen it in person, now I know it is not any kind of camera trickery. I wish all of you could have been there to see Copperfield fly around our local hockey arena... It was pretty cool. I have found some sites where you can watch streaming video of Angel, Copperfield, and Blaine do their stuff. I watched Angel walk up and back down a wall, and climb through a solid sheet of window glass without breaking it. Maybe its the application of some little known universal force or energy that allows these guys to do this, I don't know. Sure cool though.

thanks for sharing blackguardXIII

those were really great stories

you are very lucky to have seen that stunt in person...

hutchinson effect=old news.read the article. end of story

[edit on 10-5-2006 by jimmy1200]

i dont know what to believe. im more inclined to believe what most of what he does, aside from the stuff he shows you is false, is true, but my opinion is biased, because im more inclined to give the "paranormal" a chance, then just toss it to the side and laugh at it.
in reality though. its still entertainment and although it seems real, and maybe it is and magicians like criss angel, cyril, and blaine are just tryin to let you know through their magic, but honestly its not like any of them have come out and gone under the harsh scientific eye, to prove that hey, "some of these are tricks, but you can honestly levitate or walk up a wall, or through glass".
that is where the problem is. although they could be doin the real deal. its hard to say yay or nay, because as of right now, its just entertainment, and none have actually gone out of their way to change the consciousness of mankind, by proving such things are possible.
but just because you can levitate, doesnt mean you have to prove it. we just want them to, so from our point of view, we can shove it down the skeptics throat, and from the other point of view, so the skeptics can try to prove us wrong and shove it down our throats.
in all honestly. i would do a lot, but the last thing i would be concerned about, especially living in this world, is using any abnormal ability i have, just to prove someone that its real. yeah thats the cliche response from the community, but its true. if i could punch through brick walls and float through the air like crouching tiger hidden dragon. i would be on a mountain or in a forest enjoying my freedom and enjoying life from a new point of view. rather than waste time being tested and proving whether im the real deal or not.
just my opinion though

Originally posted by jimmy1200
in all honestly. i would do a lot, but the last thing i would be concerned about, especially living in this world, is using any abnormal ability i have, just to prove someone that its real. yeah thats the cliche response from the community, but its true. if i could punch through brick walls and float through the air like crouching tiger hidden dragon. i would be on a mountain or in a forest enjoying my freedom and enjoying life from a new point of view. rather than waste time being tested and proving whether im the real deal or not.
just my opinion though

that is a great way of describing it all

i have never seen it that way...

i must agree with you on this point...

"mindfreak" is on tonight at 9:00pm ET on "A&E"...

just a reminder...