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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Still stuck on the roller coaster when I specifically asked for ways that the videos I posted lately could be debunked .... the others just ignore the videos with the impossible to refute events and keeps harping about the ones that they think they can pick apart easily. try the hard ones people.

The Rollercoaster video clip was added for YOU to see a bit of what you miss not having television. PR brought it up, suggesting you watch more of CA's teleportation "gifts".

I haven't watched any of your Cyril videos, so that's why I personally haven't commented. Nothing gets through your closed mind, so why bother.

You have proven NOTHING. You say because we can't see props, etc, that means there are none. Wouldn't be much of an ILLUSION if we could see them would it?

You've been provided with plenty of proof. Proof that you asked for.

If CA was to levitate right in front of you and you saw the prop that showed he really wasn't using TK, you'd come up with "well, he had to fake it, he got tipped off the CIA was onto him .... very clever actually". That's your response when you hear it for yourself, from CA, he has no powers.

[edit on 31-8-2007 by violet]




posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Now get us an eyewitness that can testify to Criss Angel using props, gadgetry and/or paid-off witnesses for his levitations and teleportations



Even though he can't hear me. What about the times CA does the levitation unto a ledge or chair? He has even shown us the prop involved?

Oh I forget, CA using a prop in that case is fully understandable. Forgive me, I am dense.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Those who are going to appear on camera, in any capacity, often have to sign a release that grants their permission to be filmed.


Originally posted by pavil
So there should be a record of all the people who have witnessed the "higher levitations" right? CA should know their names and addresses, wonder why he doesn't ever get one of those "fans" requesting to put up a fan site or talking about their "event"?

Sounds like a good idea for objective research but not a lucrative one to him. It appears that his main interests these days are wealth and popularity.

Instead of providing a database of eyewitnesses online, he gets them to testify on his Mindfreak show in order to improve the credibility of his feats. It works.

Eventually we will come across someone - outside of 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan - who saw him perform a high levitation LIVE and who will state such in here.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Now get us an eyewitness that can testify to Criss Angel using props, gadgetry and/or paid-off witnesses for his levitations and teleportations



Originally posted by pavil
Even though he can't hear me.

Part of it depends on how bored I get with what is going on in here.


Originally posted by pavil
What about the times CA does the levitation unto a ledge or chair? He has even shown us the prop involved?

Yes he has.


Originally posted by pavil
Oh I forget, CA using a prop in that case is fully understandable. Forgive me, I am dense.

Couldn't have said that better myself.


Criss Angel explains in detail this particular illusion here.

He has never attempted to explain his high levitations and has no intention of doing so. Simply because they are not done with props or gadgetry but with a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis



[edit on 31-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard


Originally posted by pavil
Oh I forget, CA using a prop in that case is fully understandable. Forgive me, I am dense.

Couldn't have said that better myself.




And you can say that with a straight face? Are you a politician?

Ok, why does CA need a prop for smaller levitations? I am not following your logic. Or is CA actually levitating using Chi-TK and only using the prop to throw us off his tail?



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard


Originally posted by pavil
Oh I forget, CA using a prop in that case is fully understandable. Forgive me, I am dense.

Couldn't have said that better myself.




And you can say that with a straight face? Are you a politician?

Ok, why does CA need a prop for smaller levitations? I am not following your logic. Or is CA actually levitating using Chi-TK and only using the prop to throw us off his tail?



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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there is no god,

First off, you are right in that there is no God in the traditional Judeo-Christian sense. But you are wrong in your assumption that there is not a Higher Power, which there very much is. Near Death Experience research validates this.


Originally posted by there is no god
The speculation point is valid for both camps. You are speculating that the gentleman is using a power that science does not accept exists. Science does for me. Any balanced judgement would accept the speculation of something that exists, proven science (the Internet that you are using for example) over something that has not been demonstrably proven. So I see it as science that exists in the real world, up against something that exists in your mind.

As I have stated before, there are various things that science cannot prove in a laboratory but exist nonetheless. The example I like to use is emotions. We cannot isolate emotions in a test tube or gauge them with instrumentation. All scientists can do is measure the chemical reaction caused by them, not the energy of emotion itself. This is similar to the inability of an investigative team to measure the Chi of John Chang. They could measure the effect of his Chi but not the energy of Chi itself.

The energy of Chi, Prana, Ki, telekinesis, "the holy spirit," etc., are all one and the same thing; they all stem from The Light on the Other Side that spirits or discarnates channel into the physical spectrum.

Moreover, the effects of Chi-Telekinesis are seen and witnessed all over the world and in myriad ways. To dismiss something because you cannot measure it in a laboratory is foolish. Ever person that has ever experienced a spontaneous healing after visiting a Christian faith healer, Reiki or Seichem practitioner, Muslim healer, Hindu healer, Qigong practitioner, etc., have all had the experience of knowing that Chi-Telekinesis exists.

So the fault in not knowing that it exists falls on those who simply refuse to get the necessary experience in seeking validation on a personal level.


Originally posted by there is no god
As for coaching. You do not net a degree in Chaos Theory to undertake the part as a stooge in a magic trick.

Try faking a levitation with coaching. I'd like to see that sometime.


Originally posted by there is no god
If Mr Angel had all these mysterious powers surely he could have magically done the make up for them.

That's magickally.

Yes, that is something well within the energy level of the Group Entity he channels. However, doing so would not aid him in being a Mindfreak. There is not enough of a demand for someone who uses Chi to apply makeup, so they simply don't pursue it.

One has to learn to think like a Group Entity in order to understand them. This is accomplished simply through analysis and practice.


Originally posted by there is no god
As for finding witnesses, silly point...why do you think they get them to sign the forms?

Because they need their written permission before they can use them in their filmed program. That is why one occasionally sees a face blurred out via editing - because they did not get permission.


Originally posted by there is no god
Where can the average Joe find a demonstrative example of so called Chi-Kinesis or whatever it is called?

Do a Net search.


Originally posted by there is no god
If I put my hand in a fire and it burns, life experience has taught me that.
If I walk in front of a tank, I will come off worse. life experience has taught me that. Tanks and fire are real.

Quite so.

So is Chi-Telekinesis.


Originally posted by there is no god
If I see either event on the TV, I can accept either it really happened or it was staged and acted.

With experience one learns how to discriminate between the two.


Originally posted by there is no god
Life experience has shown me that magicians do not have real powers, they are masters of illusion and manipulation, smoke and mirrors etc. So when I see one on TV I am sure it is an illusion.

Most but not all magicians are just illusionists.


Originally posted by there is no god
So do the CA believers believe that the battle scenes from "Battle of the Bulge", with Robert Shaw were real and that Johnny Storm, The Human Torch from the Fantastic Four film was actually burning?

Just good illusions.


Originally posted by there is no god
If you cannot accept that CA is but a TV entertainer, how much of TV do you really think is real? Have ever watched "Galaxy Quest"? I see parallels with the CA cult and the ThermianS. LOL.

The alien brunette was hot


What was that actresses' name anyway?

However entertaining, they were all illusions.




posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
Ok, why does CA need a prop for smaller levitations? I am not following your logic. Or is CA actually levitating using Chi-TK and only using the prop to throw us off his tail?

The reason why Criss Angel explains his minor levitations is so he can avoid having to address his major ones. So people who have little or no experience with Chi-Telekinesis will say, "See...I have found a website that explains how Criss Angel does his low levitations. It is all a trick. So his high levitations must be an illusion too."

[edit on 31-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
Oh I forget, CA using a prop in that case is fully understandable. Forgive me, I am dense.



Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Couldn't have said that better myself.




Originally posted by pavil
And you can say that with a straight face?

In admitting that you are right in being (at least occasionally) dense?

You bet


Being a politician is not required.




posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 09:19 PM
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Dont know if anyones posted this, but here is Criss showing how he levitates

www.youtube.com...



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 10:08 PM
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This is still a pretty good thread. I don't understand why people get mad and put people on ignore, or why people say 'I'm done'.

The stuff you learn in a thread like this is BEYOND the idea of magic or debunking or shouting at one another.

You learn how to research, how to present an argument, how to find videos and first person witnesses, how to make TV camera angles work.

Here's two examples.
1. TV fight scenes
2. Pro Wrestling (WWE).

TV fight scenes - people think that the best way to have good fight scenes is to hire ''Fighters". Wrong. You need people who know about film, 'selling the punch', perspective, timing, bracketing a shot and other things.

Fighters make for TERRIBLE choreographers and often look fake on the big screen, even though what they do in the real world is fight effectively for REAL.

The converse is often true - movie fight choreographers sometimes make for not-too-effective fighters in real life, but for a variety of reasons, most not having anything to do with their screen work. But their TV/Movie work is superb!

Pro Wrestling - The biggest mistake a Pro Wrasslin' fan makes is to go to a Live match, say in a Colosseum or Arena. I've had several tell me this.

Why? Simple. Stuff that looks real and great and cool on TV looks horribly fake in person where you can see them miss by a mile, or see them stomp the mat and not the opponent. TV uses the angles and moves to the best advantage. It's the best way to watch WWE on TV - you get a 'box seat' as it were and the illusion is maintained.

What CA and other 'new wave' magicians have learned is that certain types of Magic/Illusion ALSO looks best on the TV. They can exploit the angles and jump cuts and all that 'TV Magic' that made Captain Kirk look like a good fighter back in the 60s.

Thus they have their own arsenal of stage illusions, PLUS a new medium to exploit. We saw this first in David Copperfield, with his BIG tricks (like moving an Island or a big building).

Does this make sense? It's not that either stage, closeup, TV, or other types of magic/illusion is bad/wrong/cheating or anything. They're just different and they exploit different things about human perception and the way the 'Brain' interprets the world and film. Remember it's the fact that the brain interprets 24-32 fps as 'movement' that allows us to Watch TV!

HTH.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


Yeah, you deleted the part of his quote where it says "(Text deleted by Mods) " That was where you put ...

At the bottom of his post it says, "Note from Mods: Whilst we can appreciate that you were more than disappointed, please go and read the forum rules about exposure".

From the forum rules "6. Please don't ask how tricks are done, it means we're being asked to be giving away other people's secrets which are not ours to divulge. "

The moderators deleted where he explained how the trick was performed due to their rules.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by Badge01
 


I know, I should quit saying I'm done. It's just that eyewitness is so bullheaded and throws nonsense around. At least Paul_Richards posts are intelligent and well formed. I get fed up with trying to make head or tails of eyewitnesses posts.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by keymaster
 


I'd have to slightly disagree with you. Eye just types a lot. There are times when he asks a legitimate question.

Not sure why he feels he needs 15 paragraphs to say one or two things, but maybe he's just 'verbose' by nature. Maybe he's really quiet in person and this is a big outlet for his 'internal dialogs'?

Maybe to him, -we- post too much stuff and think it's 'proof'.

Thing is, if you have 'proof' it really should be able to be presented briefly and elegantly and not really require 70 pages.

I know I'm trying to find that elegance to express myself, but it's not easy. Few people can be totally elegant, Mr Roper.


OK, I'm joking around a little...

What part I do NOT like is the tactic of a 'Gift Believer' to find 'one little mistake' or error in a 'explainer's' post and then sensing he's Won, puts the person on Ignore.

That's a totally cowardly way of debating, imo.

Yep, sorry Mr PR, you are outed!





[edit on 1-9-2007 by Badge01]



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Badge01
 


That's kinda what I meant. I may not always be clear myself, LOL. I just hate wading through all the unneccessary retelling of his same points, over and over and over.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:13 AM
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Remember the video where Cyril passes the card through the glass? Yeah, you want to do it too? Click here and you can be just like Cyril for only $75.

From the link:
You are going to love the Ultimate Card Thru Glass Frame!
Have a card selected from a shuffled deck. Ask the spectator to mark the card, then tear off a corner for later identification. Give the corner to the spectator to hold.
Hold the selected card in front of the glass frame. The spectators will be aghast as they watch the card penetrate through the glass!
The spectator can see his card under the glass. The spectator can touch and examine the glass.
Remove the glass from the frame to confirm that the card is really inside the glass. Take the card out and hand it to the spectator so she can verify that it is in fact her selected card. She checks the torn corner and it matches exactly!
This is an easy yet very powerful effect. It also can be done with: business cards, bills or photos.
You get: Glass Frame with the special gimmick, black silk and a DVD with full instructions and tips.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
... the effects of Chi-Telekinesis are seen and witnessed all over the world and in myriad ways.

... Ever person that has ever experienced a spontaneous healing after visiting a Christian faith healer, Reiki or Seichem practitioner, Muslim healer, Hindu healer, Qigong practitioner, etc., have all had the experience of knowing that Chi-Telekinesis exists.

Do you have a reference link of one of these people (besides yourself) who were healed and KNEW it was Chi-Telekinesis?

Most likely, if someone believed they had been healed, it was due to the power of positive thinking combined with the (hypnotic) suggestion they would heal, and therefore they expect it, it happens.

Even if the person was healed by the healer, again you cannot prove it was from this Chiki-Tiki.

[edit on 1-9-2007 by violet]



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by there is no god
Where can the average Joe find a demonstrative example of so called Chi-Kinesis or whatever it is called?

Do a Net search.

You may have missed it, but those websites aren't demonstrative examples. As I was on ignore, you may have missed my post after yours where I explain that the one you say provides instruction does provide instruction, however it is to the point system and scoring of using it in the Role Playing Game. Not in real life. As you should know, role playing games have no requirement to be accurate.

Again, not saying telekinesis doesn't exist, just saying CA doesn't use it.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by keymaster
You may have missed it, but those websites aren't demonstrative examples. As I was on ignore, you may have missed my post after yours where I explain that the one you say provides instruction does provide instruction, however it is to the point system and scoring of using it in the Role Playing Game. Not in real life. As you should know, role playing games have no requirement to be accurate.

Again, not saying telekinesis doesn't exist, just saying CA doesn't use it.

The point was that the term Chi-Telekinesis was used elsewhere and not just in this thread by those who support the idea that Criss Angel has a Gift in that capacity.

To find a website and/or school that actually teaches Chi-Telekinesis and which all the students are successful in learning it and in manifesting it on a regular basis, is problematic. The reason: Telekinesis, like Healing, Charisma, Astral Projection, Prophecy, etc., it is a Gift of the Spirit



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 05:58 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The point was that the term Chi-Telekinesis was used elsewhere and not just in this thread by those who support the idea that Criss Angel has a Gift in that capacity.


PMSL

as you are now admitting reliance on fantasy sources and invented terms

shall we discuss wether mr angel can use his " gifts " to master the sport of Quidditch ?

it would be as productive as using palladium games RPG material - asy you have already tried to



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by violet
Do you have a reference link of one of these people (besides yourself) who were healed and KNEW it was Chi-Telekinesis?

The term Chi-Telekinesis is the one we are using in this thread to describe that energy. But all you have to do is talk to anyone who has been healed in any of the healing modalities I listed for confirmation.

One route would be to do a search on Reiki sites and seek testimonials of its effectiveness. The whole idea behind Reiki is that it emulates the supposed healing ability that Jesus had. There are variations in the degree of success with this.


Originally posted by violet
Most likely, if someone believed they had been healed, it was due to the power of positive thinking combined with the (hypnotic) suggestion they would heal, and therefore they expect it, it happens.

Hypnosis cannot really heal physical afflictions, only serve to help emotional problems and addictions in certain cases.

On rare occasions I have had a Gift of Healing. In the late 1990s, there was an incident whereby I was given accurate information from Spirit as to an ailment that a Reiki practitioner had.

In parapsychology, the ability to discern illness or affliction is referred to as paradiagnostics. Edgar Cayce had this Gift.

I was told from Spirit that she had a problem with her right ear, which she confirmed. I then put my hands over the afflicted area. The Reiki practitioner said to me that the healing energy I channeled - which felt to her like alternating hot and cold - was just as powerful as anything she had experienced with Reiki.

So it isn't all just a placebo effect and one based on auto suggestions.

You keep coming up with theories based on ignorance.


The best thing you can do is go out and visit people with a Gift of Healing so you can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is an energy that they channel and that it has little to do with hypnosis. It also would help if you took a course on hypnosis because you tend to attribute things to it that are simply untrue. Until you do these things you will never learn


[edit on 1-9-2007 by Paul_Richard]



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