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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Badge01
 


No, not so, the way these guys are talking he wouldn't need to touch the cards, he could levitate them across the ether, while making balloon animals with his Chi-Kinesis (love that phrase...sounds like a form of aerobic exercise while drinking tea).

I am amused that the argument seems to be, to prove that cleverly edited or used props are made to appear, while there is no real evidence for their claims...and no way of proving them. The honus is on there camp imho.

I have seen magicians up close, they exist. My best friend was in the Magic Circle, many years back. That was when I learnt, that magicians just buy the tricks. Sometimes they commision them but I realised what was going n behind the scenes, was just as important as what was seen in front.

Pen and Teller have shown some of the gags as did that masked illusionist. So I have at some personal level evidence of what can be done. I can find it credible that Mr Angel is and Illusionist. Especially as he says he is


I have no proof of so called Chi- Kinesis. I read the posts and can find nowhere, where I can go to see it in action, first hand and examine it.

It is crazy talk. The believers are more blinkered than the sceptics imho.




posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by zysin5
 


The saving babies is an excellent point, especially as he has said if he had such powers he would use them in such a manner.

Taking what Badge01 has said, It would be like that christian messiah bloke being able to save lives and feed the masses but decide to levitate across the Temples and walk on water instead....oh wait a minute is that their point?


He has no more Chi-Kinesis ability than I have Pamela Anderson's chest


I could be wrong but sometimes I feel that the defence of Chris Angel is more about defending hurt ego's and reputations than anything else...tut tut...

Got to go now, my Chi-Kinesis has opened a bottle of beer and demands I drink it



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by pavil
 


I think anyone reading through this thread with an open mind can see where the rational explanation leads to.

It is obvious that a couple of dudes are either delusional or have an agenda. Either defending a flagging reputation or part of the CA publicity machine who knows and I suppose really, who cares.

I would be surprised if people here hadn't noticed that there is scant response to yours and others posts. The responses are all very selective and I don't blame them. Given the case they advocate, I wouldn't want to cross examine all that evidence


As I see it now, if you had a jury of 12 just and true and you brought the two cases before it, you could demonstrate the Illusionist case easily. The Chi-Kinesis would no doubt cause great merriment in the Court as they tried to prove it


"Mlud, I would like to show how I levitate but I got a bit of a cold."



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 09:19 PM
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As I stated before, this is ATS. It is our job to embrace the avant-garde. If you want a parochial understanding of this and related, talk to a high school science teacher.

No I don't want a "parochial" understanding. And yes this forum is designed for the discussion of alternative subjects. However, you cannot make up words and expect to sound believable.



But if you need to know that others are aware of and use the phrase Chi-Telekinesis, peruse these:

Chi Telekinesis (Positive or Negative Chi Mastery)

The homepage of this site
If you will go here you will realize that this is a page on geocities that is discussing a Role Playing Game. In other words, some kids living in imagination land. Good example. LOL!



I wonder if LMB's chi-telekinesis would be able to affect the rifle?

Source: A Military Tactics Discussion

A military Tactics Discussion? Ha ha. Not hardly. It's a what if discussion. What if Li Mu Bai (played by Chow Yun Fat in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon) was to fight a marine? Another beautiful example.


Another place where the term Chi Telekinesis is used: Stupid Chi Tricks

Once again, Role Playing Game called Fengshui.



So I did not make-up the term Chi-Telekinesis.

Even if I did, so what?

Inventing new terms for greater understanding is what advanced research and development is all about.


Actually, I just strung the two words together because it was logical to do so, and then I found that others have done the same thing.


My problem here is that you are spreading disinformation. You speak of levitation but I see nothing but smoke and mirrors. I'm not going to bother arguing with the rest of your "logic". I have never said that levitation is not possible. I have never said I disbelieve anything but Criss Angel. The only thing that makes a man a man is his word. Criss Angel stated repeatedly that he is not gifted in any way other than he is a master of his craft, illusion. I have no reason not to believe him. I am more inclined to take a mans word when he is the person who is being discussed. Of course I can't prove he can't fly around like frickin' superman, nor can you prove that he can. You can spout off all the "avant-garde" sites you like that are run by others as yourself and still have zero proof. No concrete evidence at all. You expect me to believe in Criss Angel as a priest believes in God, just because you have faith. Because you claim you have seen this and you have felt this. You are just some random person on the internet. That's the thing. You have given me nothing to even make me doubt that I am right.

One last thing. If these people were so "gifted", in this day and age of technology have they never been caught doing anything that wasn't planned or staged? Criss Angel has never been seen just floating around.

I am done arguing delusional thinking.



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by keymaster
 



Simply priceless! Most of his own supplied links were for roleplaying games and a fictional character in a movie. Too funny.



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 09:38 PM
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Sorry, I havn't read all 65 pages... I cant belive some people think this guy has real powers....


I just watched this stunt where he was on a roller coster.... The trick was a joke... He goes behind this piece of paper, with short sleves on and sticks his hands thru some holes... Then claims that he is going to pull in these flaps... So the hands go in and new hands come out... These new hands have long black sleves.... Way to screw up on something that simple



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 03:44 AM
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Eyewitness,
I thought you said you don't have TV service. and are viewing CA's "gifts" on youtube's poor quality blurry videos, that have been re-edited by the person who recorded or uploaded them. If that's the case, you must also be missing all the in between fill-in segments, where he will mention "an illusion is coming up" or any other revealing details, quotes, tricks etc. You don't really see the whole picture, to be in a position to comment.

[edit on 29-8-2007 by violet]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 04:26 AM
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I don't understand how you became so convinced he is using this Chi -TK and has all these powers. Esp when he has said himself he "has no powers". He didn't sound to me like he was making that up as a cover for his hidden gifts. He sounded very adamant about it, and angered by people who claim to have powers.

When you witness the unbelievable, do you not EVER first try to come up with other logical explanations, before you conclude it's TK?

Does it cross your mind that he's an Illusionist, and perhaps, he actually can do these illusions to appear real? Maybe credit CA for these stunts, and not this chikinesis?

[edit on 29-8-2007 by violet]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by keymaster
No I don't want a "parochial" understanding. And yes this forum is designed for the discussion of alternative subjects. However, you cannot make up words and expect to sound believable.

I didn't make up that phrase and others use it just as I do. Your lack of education in the subject matter is your obstacle - not ours.


Originally posted by keymaster
If you will go here you will realize that this is a page on geocities that is discussing a Role Playing Game. In other words, some kids living in imagination land. Good example. LOL!

The difference being is that the links I provided point not to gaming but to a genuine discussion - even instruction - on Chi-Telekinesis



Originally posted by keymaster
My problem here is that you are spreading disinformation. You speak of levitation but I see nothing but smoke and mirrors. I'm not going to bother arguing with the rest of your "logic".

If you can't handle all the eyewitness testimony, logical analysis, and mounting video evidence, feel free to put me on you ignore list. I have no need to argue with someone who does not embrace critical thinking ability.

Here...I'll make it easy for you...[hitting ignore button].




Originally posted by Badge01
What's so funny is that the position some people take on CA having 'gifts' is similar to having Jesus return to Earth, part the Red Sea, and heal a bunch of people then turn to the camera and say:

"...pick a card, any card".

You are making a lot of assumptions about what you THINK someone should do and what you THINK are their motivations - without doing any research.

BTW...Jesus never returned to Earth after dying at the age of 80 in India. Group Entities are not powerful or skilled enough to manifest a fully-grown Homo sapien body. That is also why you don't see him here today, on international television, healing many people on a daily basis.

Issa/Jus Asaf Escaped Death On The Cross & Died In India At 80 After Proclaiming To Be The Galilean Messiah

The Tomb of Jesus/Issa in India

Guess you haven't done much research about Jesus either.


Do you ever perform an investigation before you post or do you always just shoot from the hip with baseless speculations?


Originally posted by zysin5
If Chriss is everything you say he is.. Then why the heck is he not out saving babies? And other people from the harm this world brings?

You are presuming that just because someone has a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis that HE MUST BE ALTRUISTIC.

That is a bias that many have. They think that those who have extraordinary powers must automatically be using them SELFLESSLY.

However, if one does the required investigation, one learns that that assumption is incorrect and based in IGNORANCE.

Despite minor services performed on occasion, in the overall sense, Criss Angel and the large discarnate community or large Group Entity of angels that he channels and represents is not interested in selfless service for the betterment of humanity.

To further illuminate this issue...

Criss Angel is an angel prophet at best.

He is not a Saint, lesser god/Magi, or God/Elder.

In the future and in various degrees, gods and Gods will be doing much along the lines of what you would like to see happening.

But don't expect that from angel and subangel prophets.


When is the last time you saw Moses or Jesus in the flesh saving babies?

Or for that matter, doing ANYTHING in the flesh in service to others?

BINGO

EDIT: In all fairness and objectivity, there is a fairly noble and fairly stable discarnate community locally on the fifth plane (i.e., they generally have Dominant Aura Color of violet) that is ecumenical and which strives to heal many people SELFLESSLY. (I have not yet been astrally abused by this large discarnate community, which in itself is quite remarkable.) It is the large Group Entity that channels through and around the healer in Brazil - and his subordinate mediums - known as John of God.

John and his fellow mediums are and have been for many years, as you say, "saving babies."


So maybe there is some glimmer of hope for a small percentage of Group Entities who are one level below embracing Sainthood.


.................

Hi Eyewitness86,


Originally posted by eyewitness86
Great job as always holding the line, PR. They just will not admit that they cannot explain HOW Criss does these things, except for the ridiculous and impossible , and so relegate that fact to the back burner while they trot out the old ' They are illusionists ' excuse. They simply cannot face the fact that they have been stumped by Criss.

Thanks.

GMTA



Originally posted by eyewitness86
Now we know what missionaries in the jungle go thru to convert savages.



So true.



[edit on 29-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

The difference being is that the links I provided point not to gaming but to a genuine discussion - even instruction - on Chi-Telekinesis


Umm, that's the best defence you can come up with. He busted your links wide open and you offer that as your rationale?


If you can't handle all the eyewitness testimony, logical analysis, and mounting video evidence, feel free to put me on you ignore list. I have no need to argue with someone who does not embrace critical thinking ability.

Here...I'll make it easy for you...[hitting ignore button].



What eyewitness testimony? The snippets we see on the TV show? Please provide outside of the show, someone who was a witness to the Building to Building, Luxor indoor, Golf Course, Freemont or nake torso "indoor" levitation? There are no websites I am aware of that tell of some one's experience at those events.

Critical thinking ability and logical analysis? You are the one making a discussion on Chi-TK on a role-playing card game site sound like it is justification of your claim! You brush off someone eyewitnessing the IDENTICAL TRICK as CA does as nothing more than a cheap illusion, while you claim at the same time CA's version of that same trick to be evidence of his "many gifts". What kind of logical analysis is that? Your standards are obviously lower than most.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 08:51 AM
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GIMME GIMME GIMME !! Give me more proof, give me more evidence. Make a foolproof scientific set up and let me decide how it should be done. Show us more .. THAT is the attitude of the deniers. they all want someone to prove to them that there are no props even though they will not accept any evidence we give. They will not comment on the really critical questions, they remain ignored while the deniers are shout " He is an illusionist!! He said so!!

What the challenged deniers all miss is the point that means the most: Until they can disprove the evidence we have shown, the onus lies on THEM and not us!! We have presented massive and clear proofs, video tapes, eyewitnesses, and still the deniers scream for ever more to be given them, as if any amount would ever be enough. The weakest and most silly excuses, all unproven of course, stand as their case in chief.

Why has no one answered the main questions I asked? Because they cannot, thats why. All they can do is allege things not in evidence. It is sad, really, for so many supposedly intelligent people to be so stumped by Criss that they cannot even come up with the way he does it. They cnanot even try, without looking foolish, so they ignore it!!

" I don't know how he does it but it must be a trick because I cannot believe in anything except tricks". THAT is the logic of the denier. Enough said.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by Paul_Richard
 



Score. I got put on ignore. Whatever. It's funny when people who live in glass houses throw stones.

It is not instructions on how to perform chi-telekinesis. It is the rules to using it in the game and how the scoring is given when you use it.

Someone oughta read the page before using it as an example.

Maybe the problem is that I do embrace critical thinking. That I'm not just going to take someones word for it.

They say ignorance is bliss.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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Well that's clearly nonsense. You've been given names of people who sell the 'illusions' and the names of people on their staff that help out with the tricks and you've been shown diagrams and pictures of close up shots of the 'latex' skin, as well as bulleted lists of how the trick was done.

Furthermore interviews by Penn Jillette, with CA himself were posted so you heard it in his own words.

In fact you are the one who is saying it's a 'gift' and then showing no evidence that he's actually got a gift.

Perhaps you'd like to give a breakdown of the swallowed quarter trick and illustrate just what 'gifts' were used to do each phase of the stunt?

Gift of swallowing coins without illness?
Gift of dematerialization?
Gift of pain insensitivity?
Gift of tractor beam ability?

Or maybe palming a coin and some props from a magic store - they sell the coins and the fake blood and the latex skin to anyone you know.

By the way the name of the trick is the 'Surgical Reveal'. The trick was invented by Wayne Houchin, who performs street magic up in Chico California, and Alex Lourido who invented the 'Butter Coin' illusion. Criss bought up the rights to the surgical reveal trick and also negotiated with Wayne to use his 'coin in a soda can' trick.

Oh, you want more? Here's his website:

waynehouchin.com...

www.ellusionist.com...

HTH,





[edit on 29-8-2007 by Badge01]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
We have presented massive and clear proofs, video tapes, eyewitnesses, and still the deniers scream for ever more to be given them, as if any amount would ever be enough. The weakest and most silly excuses, all unproven of course, stand as their case in chief.


If you have presented such things, then it should be easy for you to summerize your case evidence. Please list with refrences, the video tapes in question. Please list with contact information, the eyewitnesses in question.

So far what i have seen as representative of your evidence is video footage produced for television and DVD by Criss Angel and MindFreak Productions.
No independant footage has been presented

The only eyewitness testimony presented has been at the end of MindFreak production video's.
No independant eyewitness testimony has been presented

Outside of PR and his personal experiance, No corroborative evidence of Criss Angel's Gift of Spirit has been presented.

We ask for evidence of you claims because you have presented nothing that remotely resembles evidence.

If you can refute my claims, please do so, point by point



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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Someone seems eager to argue


Originally posted by eyewitness86
Great job as always holding the line, PR. They just will not admit that they cannot explain HOW Criss does these things, except for the ridiculous and impossible , and so relegate that fact to the back burner while they trot out the old ' They are illusionists ' excuse. They simply cannot face the fact that they have been stumped by Criss.


I don't have to be able to explain how he does it. I am not an illusionist. That is not how I make my living. I like to be stumped by magicians, it makes for good entertainment. "They are illusionists" is not an excuse, it is a fact. That is how they bill themselves, that is what they are. Tell you what, you want to know how he does it all you have to do is buy the video he made that explains how he does it. Click here to purchase it. It will cost you $99.95 and you can levitate yourself just like him. It says you will also have to purchase $125 worth of gimmick material. I however, have better things to spend my $100 on.



If Criss Angel and Blain and Cyril are so smart and so slick that they can perform feats that no other human beings can reproduce, then why are not the denier's even curious as to how he does it? They are willing to ignore the fact that Criss can levitate, they ignore the evidence and keep insisting that the phenomenon must be measurable by physical standards, even though it is in a totally different dimensional realm, or they insist that there must be props, even though none are ever seen, proven or alleged.


I would like to know how they do it (but not enough to spend $100). Then I could stop this ridiculous arguement once and for all. He cannot levitate in real life. It's called illusion. There is zero evidence that he can levitate other than the programs themselves. I have met no one who saw him levitate. Of course there are props and/or lines. They edit them out for tv. It's all about camera angles.



It is like a homicide detective showing up at a crime scene and declaring that it must have been a suicide, because there is a rope around the dead guys neck!! The fact that there are two bullet holes in the back of the head and his hands are tied behind him just doesn't matter! He has a rope around his neck!! That is the mentality of the deniers, ignoring the evidence and lack of proof of an alternative view and insisting on believing that the lack of proof is somehow a non-issue. No matter how many witnesses, no matter how many videos, they still stubbornly insist on holding onto a totally deficient position despite the facts.


There still is no evidence. In fact as I mentioned above, you can buy his video and amaze your friends. That link is for a magic shop so you can get some other tricks too. I think a video made by Criss Angel explaining how he does it is proof enough that it is a trick. I know you want to believe, but you need to believe in something else other than a magic trick. Who is holding onto the "totally deficient position despite the facts" now?

Wait a minute. I'll beat you to the punch. That DVD is probably a fake, huh? Made by Criss Angel just to give us non-believers a little hope we're right.

Continued below



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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If a denier saw a man flying without aid thru their town, they would say " Well, it must be an astronaut..after all, thats what they do..fly thru the air!! Never mind the accompanying factors!! NO LEVEL OF PROOF would be enough for them. Even if they were right there and saw it thwemselves they would still claim that Criss just has a great crew and some weird way of hiding all of the props. One poster above actaully equates invisible helicocters and platforms, etc. as being on a par with simply accepting what is seen for what it is.


First off, men don't just fly around. If we did, we wouldn't be men. I am a very open minded individual. I believe in things that others would say I'm crazy for believing in. I am not easily swayed though. I need a reason to believe. Not just a television show. In the comments on the page with the dvd for sale, it says and I quote "There is set up, and you will walk around with the gimmick on (no problem at all, but you WILL be wearing a gimmick). That said, it caused a LOT of controversy and conversation and *buzz* for Criss when it was aired on his Mindfreak Special."



Criss can do things that NO OTHER HUMAN BEING CAN DO.


No he can't.



The points I made about that were ignored of course because they point out the truth. Try and tell us why NONE of the other performers or illusionists have attempted the feats that Criss does? Why are only three men on earth able to do what we see? Why has Randi not shown us how? Why has no other magician upstaged Criss? Perhaps because they CANNOT?


Because Criss Angel is a true master of his craft. No one else is doing it because they can't do it as well as he does. He will keep one-upping them because he devotes so much time to it. If you buy the dvd I guess it will be four men, huh?



Now we know what missionaries in the jungle go thru to convert savages. First you have to explain the concept, then get them to acknowledge the possibility, and then convince them of the truth. It takes a willingness to open up ones parameters, or it is all usless. No one can be dragged kicking and screaming into enlightenment; it has to be sought or at least not denied when presented to them in a clear and unambisuous form, like the evidence we have shown here over and over that precludes any possibility of props, like the Luxor event or the golf course and many others.


Horrible example by using "savages". You don't want to get me started on the religious persecution of so many native tribes to spread "the word of god". How many innocent people have died because they wouldn't believe in some fairy tale. There is zero evidence for as you put "enlightenment."



Until the deniers can be educated, they must first be willing to admit that there are things that Criss does that cannot be refuted or denied or explained away by ordinary means.


Like what?



Then, they can be shown the means by which it is possible. The deniers are JUST LIKE the White House and the Bush gang; No need to investigate 9-1 because we all KNOW how it happened, don't we? Fox news says so and thats that. End of story. That is the mentality of the deniers also, they have determined in their great and massive experience and wisdom about all dimensional and spiritual matters that in fact there are no such abilities possible and so what we are seeing MUST be tricks!! forget all about the fact that there is no evidence or proof of that, no matter..to a denier.


The problem is that you have it completely backwards. You purport to KNOW that Criss Angel is magic and can levitate on command. Nothing is farther from the truth. I think the dvd is proof enough. I have never once said that levitation isn't possible. Merely that Criss Angel does it by using tricks.



Still no takers on my request to give us some ways that the events we mention could have been done. Still no answer to how seemingly impossible events can be staged without anyone being able to show any means other than what we propose. Still no likley replies. Oh, well. Maybe some fresh perspective will come along and give us a way we could be so wrong ;if our position is so tenuous then where is all the evidence of the props? Or the paid witnesses? Or the film tricks? Where? [/quote


All my proof is above. Anything else you want me to debunk?

[edit on 8/29/2007 by keymaster]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 10:08 AM
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Oh for God's sake!! If all Criss Angel can do is buy cheap tricks and fool masses of people then WHY are not others doing it? WHY? WHY has NO ONE else on earth done what Criss does? Why no answer? How can anyone believe that Criss is so slick that he can fool all the people so often if all it is is tricks? Unreal.

If Criss does 100 illusions and 10 ' real ' events without props, you deniers claim that all must be tricks despite the fact that you cannot and have not given us a likley and reasonable way that he could be pulling it off. How could an illusionist levitate like Criss does if you cannot even tell us what props could have been used? you are admitting that Criss and Company are so much more intelligent than you are, doesn't that bother you?

I do not believe that Criss can fool me; there either is a mundane explanation or there is not, and the fact that you deniers CANNOT give us a likley way it could be done says it all.Why has no one answered my questions? Why do you deniers think that all of Criss competitors are all laying back and letting him rake in the big bucks and get all the glory if they can do the same things Criss does? WHY? Tell us please.

WHY has no other human being ever accomplished what Criss has? WHY has not one person ever come forward with proof or testimony that they were paid off as a witness?WHY can NO props be seen at the events we speak of? Why would you believe that all employees of the various hotels in Vegas would ask for, and get, all of their employees to remain silent forever about the props, and never speak of them, ever? Is this likley? Is this sensible? Of course not.

WE have shown you all of the evidence necessary for a reasonable person to make an intelligent determination as to the facts; until you are able to recognize and extrapolate informed and realistic opinionms from the evidence at hand, we are wasting time. If you believe that no man can do anything that defies the bounds of the human ability as currently comprehended, then you will not be convinced no matter what we give you in the way of proofs. If you DO believe that such things are possible, then tell us why you believe that Criss is NOt one of these people.

Deniers have to be held to very specific and detailed points or all we will get is more dise issues that mean nothing and allegations totally unfounded by the evidence. You are IMAGINING and GUESSING and we are SHOWING and STATING what the real deal is, with as much evidence as possible. If we were in a courtroom and the jury was asked to believe one of us, who would they believe? If they were shown the films, with NO evidence of tampering, and were shown the witnesses reactions while they see the events, which has NEVER been shown to be coerced or paid for in any way, ever, we would win hands down.

You cannot prove a negative; you cannot look at a video and say " Hey, there must be something there but we just cannot see it and there is no evidence whatsoever that shows the opposite but we will just hold onto our denials anyway." If all of the evidence we have given was stacked on a table, and your evidence was stacked on another table, which table would be empty and which would be full? The deniers would be totally empty. there is, and never has been, any proof or evidence or even a hint that the things that the deniers allege could possible be true ; none.

The deniers minds are not open, they are closed and they have already made their minds up despite the evidence.Why the many naysayers and few supporters? Because those who are equipped to deal with new paradigms KNOW the reality of the issue and have no need to defend it. Most aware people would say " Sure, it is possible for people to perform unusual and seemingly impossible feats, there is sufficient evidence of that". the deniers, on the other hand, say " No, it is impossible for anyone to do anything that cannot be explained by some mundane and physical means , despite all the evidence to the contrary". Which of those choices makes the most sense and the most compelling case? I think we all know the answer to that one.

But again, WHY has no deniers answered my specific questions as listed above? Please one of you all knowing and all seeing geniuses out there please tell me, WHY has Criss been able to do what no one else has done and WHY does some other performer not do the same thing? Why does Criss have all of the unseen props? Why does Criss engender such loyalty that no one ever talks about all the set ups and props? WHY?WHY?WHY???

Tell us please how Criss got so special and so successful and so rich if all he does is pull the old cheap tricks and props out? Tell us WHY Criss is the only human being to do these things. Tell us why Criss is able to fool all those people at arms length all the time? Why? I am waiting.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Oh for God's sake!! If all Criss Angel can do is buy cheap tricks and fool masses of people then WHY are not others doing it? WHY? WHY has NO ONE else on earth done what Criss does? Why no answer? How can anyone believe that Criss is so slick that he can fool all the people so often if all it is is tricks? Unreal.

He doesn't buy all of them. He invents many. Why would people pay money to watch someone else do what CA already did? He fools them because there are so many people as you who are just itching to believe in an other worldly explanation.


If Criss does 100 illusions and 10 ' real ' events without props, you deniers claim that all must be tricks despite the fact that you cannot and have not given us a likley and reasonable way that he could be pulling it off. How could an illusionist levitate like Criss does if you cannot even tell us what props could have been used? you are admitting that Criss and Company are so much more intelligent than you are, doesn't that bother you?

It doesn't bother me that they know more about illusion than me. As I've said before, that's not my line of work. I just gave a way. Buy the DVD. I'm not spending my money to levitate. I am just fine walking like a normal person.


I do not believe that Criss can fool me; there either is a mundane explanation or there is not, and the fact that you deniers CANNOT give us a likley way it could be done says it all.Why has no one answered my questions? Why do you deniers think that all of Criss competitors are all laying back and letting him rake in the big bucks and get all the glory if they can do the same things Criss does? WHY? Tell us please.

You were fooled. I did give you a likely way it was done. Which questions am I not answering? Because Criss is the best. Because he has the largest crew and spends more time than everyone else perfecting these tricks.


WHY has no other human being ever accomplished what Criss has? WHY has not one person ever come forward with proof or testimony that they were paid off as a witness?WHY can NO props be seen at the events we speak of? Why would you believe that all employees of the various hotels in Vegas would ask for, and get, all of their employees to remain silent forever about the props, and never speak of them, ever? Is this likley? Is this sensible? Of course not.

The levitation trick comes from a concept invented by Jacob Spinney. Magicians run in a circle with each other hardly ever divulging their secrets to anyone else. You don't need paid off witnesses if you're good enough. He wears the prop below his clothes as I alluded to earlier.


WE have shown you all of the evidence necessary for a reasonable person to make an intelligent determination as to the facts; until you are able to recognize and extrapolate informed and realistic opinionms from the evidence at hand, we are wasting time. If you believe that no man can do anything that defies the bounds of the human ability as currently comprehended, then you will not be convinced no matter what we give you in the way of proofs. If you DO believe that such things are possible, then tell us why you believe that Criss is NOt one of these people.

No you haven't. I have. I never said that "no man can do anything that defies the boundaries of the human ability as currently comprehended." I said CA doesn't. You have given me zero proofs. Where are your proofs? In the television segments? You keep screaming about all these proofs you've given us, but where are they? If I missed them, I will go back and address them. I haven't seen any. I believe that Criss is not one of these people because of his own admission. Because he will sell his tricks to anyone who would like to purchase them. Because maybe he's tired of people believing that he's superhuman. What of the dvd I mentioned in my previous post teaching how to do it? You never mention that at all. You keep saying that I ignore all your proof, but when I provide actual evidence that refutes what you claim, it is ignored.

Continued below



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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Deniers have to be held to very specific and detailed points or all we will get is more dise issues that mean nothing and allegations totally unfounded by the evidence. You are IMAGINING and GUESSING and we are SHOWING and STATING what the real deal is, with as much evidence as possible. If we were in a courtroom and the jury was asked to believe one of us, who would they believe? If they were shown the films, with NO evidence of tampering, and were shown the witnesses reactions while they see the events, which has NEVER been shown to be coerced or paid for in any way, ever, we would win hands down.

Where have you showed anything? I would hope that they would believe the truth which I am trying to show you. No you wouldn't. What of the DVD that shows how to do it?


You cannot prove a negative; you cannot look at a video and say " Hey, there must be something there but we just cannot see it and there is no evidence whatsoever that shows the opposite but we will just hold onto our denials anyway." If all of the evidence we have given was stacked on a table, and your evidence was stacked on another table, which table would be empty and which would be full? The deniers would be totally empty. there is, and never has been, any proof or evidence or even a hint that the things that the deniers allege could possible be true ; none.

The only evidence you have is video. So that DVD is a fake?


The deniers minds are not open, they are closed and they have already made their minds up despite the evidence.Why the many naysayers and few supporters? Because those who are equipped to deal with new paradigms KNOW the reality of the issue and have no need to defend it. Most aware people would say " Sure, it is possible for people to perform unusual and seemingly impossible feats, there is sufficient evidence of that". the deniers, on the other hand, say " No, it is impossible for anyone to do anything that cannot be explained by some mundane and physical means , despite all the evidence to the contrary". Which of those choices makes the most sense and the most compelling case? I think we all know the answer to that one.

Problem is my mind is more open than yours. You will not see what I'm showing you. I have repeatedly said that I do believe that there are unexplainable things. CA is not one of them.


But again, WHY has no deniers answered my specific questions as listed above? Please one of you all knowing and all seeing geniuses out there please tell me, WHY has Criss been able to do what no one else has done and WHY does some other performer not do the same thing? Why does Criss have all of the unseen props? Why does Criss engender such loyalty that no one ever talks about all the set ups and props? WHY?WHY?WHY???

I keep answering every question I see. As I said before, no one is going to pay to see the same trick done again and again. Because the props are all hidden. Minimal props makes for a better illusion. I'm not all knowing or all seeing. I don't pretend to be. But I can spot trickery. His crew is paid not to talk about it.


Tell us please how Criss got so special and so successful and so rich if all he does is pull the old cheap tricks and props out? Tell us WHY Criss is the only human being to do these things. Tell us why Criss is able to fool all those people at arms length all the time? Why? I am waiting.

Because he got a tv show. Someone saw him or someone came up with an idea for the show and he is a charismatic individual. He has the look and the ability. He can fool people because people want to be fooled. They want to believe in other worldly explanations. They want to be confused and duped. It makes good entertainment.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 10:41 AM
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Unreal. Men don't fly becaue then they would not be men !! Amazing logic. that sounds like something the Wright Brothers heard before they got to Kitty Hawk!! Now we are seeing a man fly without props; it is a new age and new paradigms are opening up for those who have their eyes open.

You also say that Criss does NOT do that which no other human being does, and then say that the reason that no one else can do it is because he is simply the best!! If all Criss is is the best illusionist, then why are we not seeing the other performers at least levitate a little bit? Only Criss and David Blaine, and to a degree, Cyril Takayama, can do the things we see. NO ONE ELSE ON EARTH has done these things, at least not on tape. Are you saying that since Criss is the best that all of the others simply gave up and are content to let him dominate the field forever? that is silly.

You have still not answered the questions; all you did is tell me I am wrong but you offer no evidence to back up that supposition. You did not debunk anything, you only made your position seem even weaker than before, if that is possible. You make a blanket statement as if it is some truth and then flee from the request for proof!!The fact that you have seen Criss do things that you have never seen anyone else do means nothing to you I guess. you say it is because he practices; what is stopping all of the other illusionists from practicing and doing the same thing? Nothing, of course.

You seem to be saying that since Criss is so good, there is no point in his competitors even trying to duplicate his success, right? They all give up that easy and accept second place to Criss forever, because they are all too lazy to do the work Criss does? Is that your position? Unreal. And still no one has told us a LIKELY way that Criss could have pulled off the golf course event, broad daylight, stunned witnesses, plenty of cameras and angles, NO EVIDENCE whatsoever of any props or wires or cranes or anything else that could have accounted for what we see. WHY no comment?

The jungle/ savage commentary was not about the very real horrors of colonial exploitation of native peoples for the gain of certain churches over the ages, it was about the difficulty of trying to get people that have no basis for spiritual and ethereal comprehension to grasp concepts that they have never considered before. It is like telling denier's that since there is NO evidence of props in the high levitations, that this means something!! The deniers are content to believe that they are just not smart enough to figure out what some simple trickster is doing but that it must be a trick because otherwise that would challenge their entire belief system, and that is just too troubling for many.

WHY cannot one of you answer my questions specifically? Not just general nonsense like " You are wrong " but something with some teeth, something that has some liklihood of being possible. STILL no replies that answer the main points , just more people saying that we have it all backwards. We do NOT have it backwards, you do. We have shown plenty of evidence and you have shown NONE that refutes it. The DVD says NOTHING about the high levitations whatsoever so why is that so important? We are talking about certain events, not all. Those events have NEVER been shown to have any props, not ever.

The hotels deny there was props, Criss denied that he uses props or fools with the video, witnesses from the entire world claim that Criss did the events and that NO props were evident or possible. yet the deniers still claim that those props are there! Unseen and never proven but surely they must be there!! Why? Because if they are not then the whole world comes crashing down on the deniers and they will be forced to admit that they are seeing soemthing that they cannot explain away with lack of evidence and lack of proof and lack of witnesses. the whole story about deniers is LACK.

Until I get some specific answers to my questions I will continue to maintain that we have the high ground here and the LACK that the deniers claim as evidence is a sham and not valid as an argument. If a man can levitate without props, that means that the entire basis for the deniers belief system will be thrown into doubt and they will have to examine and adjust their perceptions of reality greatly. Some just cannot handle that and so the rabid and silly denials keep coming, all without a shred of proof or any alternative theory that makes any sense.

TELL US how Criss did the golf course levitation please, if you can, using the available evidence. That would be a start on showing how specious and silly the excuses get when trying to deny the obvious. I am still waiting for replies that mean something.



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