criss angel discussion...

Well i got on this thread alittle late, but let me say this.. those with real abilities and powers tend not to advertise.. and almost never go on TV, let alone have their own show.

If you have ever met anyone who had visions or could just make weird things happen, you know that they consider it a gift.. or a curse, and rarely make a show of it.

That having been said, i have seen angels show.. and he is a fantastic illusionist.. but he is just that.. an illusionist

Hmm...

Surely the best way to find out if he is a fake or not is too look at the tricks he does, make a list of them and then check if any other street artist is able to do the. Many of the ones I have seen are nothing compaired to what Daran Brown [not sure of the spelling] can do to people and their minds. That is real power...

Illusions or not, it is a pretty amazing show. I have seen a New Age person make a rock (egg size) sitting on a table and made it glow red hot, levitate it about 4 inches and off the table and dropped it on the ground. Had I not wittnessed it, I would have said trick photography, editing, setup audience. It was a really good trick, however he did it! And I have seen many comments that it is an illusion. That I believe is accurate since David Blane, and CA state that they are 'illusions'.

Now I do believe that there are certain powers that a human may, if 'spiritually advanced' enough to do some amazing things which you could use the term majic or others. In my experience, there are an extreme few that may have figured out how to pull it off. I don't kow if your aware of the 'Coral Castle' site here:
www.coralcastle.com...

But I watched a documentary, as well as living here in Florida and been to the site, and this guy that weighed under 100 pounds built this castle all by himself. It was actually built in another location and after a robbery the guy moved the entire castle about 10 miles away from the original location. He had no heavy equipment and some of the largest pieces can not be lifted but for the extreme special rigs used in building off shore oil platforms among others. Not something you could drive to a land based construction site.

The amazing thing is he quit school after 4th grade. He was born in an Eastern Block country, and traveled to Egypt, Canada, and finally ended up here in Florida where I live. A tractor trailer driver that transported the pieces during the move told his story of this amazing man. With about 60 tons of coral on the flatbed trailer, the guy asked the driver to walk around in front of the tractor and wait while he unloads it. In 2 minutes with no heavy machinery, he had the load off the trailer and on the ground. No tilt trailer or anything else. He had somehow picked up this knowledge somewhere in his travels (Egypt I'm guessing). We don't have the heavy equipment today that can lift and set in some of the pieces. He left written instructions of how he did this, but buried it somewhere under one of the pieces. He said, "You can't get the instructions until you figure out how to lift the largest pieces (I also believe the knowledge is worth some 'creative demolition' to accquire these instructions). He single-handedly moved 58 Ton wall blocks he himself carved out of the coral. It seems virtually impossible and I went to college with a major in Engineering.

I just point this case out, because obviously there are capabilities that we simply haven't accquired knowledge of in the general population. And a miniscule few have harnessed this knowledge. So, I can't absolutely say there is no chance of 'majic' or some ability we do not understand. A 110lb female and a 58 ton block of coral makes it clear that the female would be much eaiser to work with to lift, levitation or not. I would really have to be there in person to witness the act, otherwise any number of Hollywood video editing/special effects could be responsible for CA's acts.

DJ




[edit on 27-10-2005 by DigitalReign]

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Honestly, I don't think this guy is human and/or he straight up has some special powers. The stuff this guy does is simply not explainable unless all the people he does these things with/in front of are paid off. Even if the people are paid off there is still no explaining most of the stuff he does. It's absolutely crazy.

did anyone see the halloween episode with the crazy woodchipper thing?

it was insane...

I've pondered the idea of some people being born with a seventh sense or what have you. Anybody ever wondered about this theory? I just scanned the post but I don't think this came up...could people like him to lesser and possibly greater degrees have been born with a part of the brain that is active in a way we've not yet discovered?? Just a thought...I sometimes get the feeling that some 'magicians' or 'illusionists' know something that may blow our minds.

Cheers!

Originally posted by coffeewench
I've pondered the idea of some people being born with a seventh sense or what have you.....

Cheers!

this is an excellent theory..

it correlates with another theory of mine that if humans were able to use the full ability of their brains, they would be an omniscient being... this lends credit to religious types who believe each and every human is a mirror image of god. would that not make sense then? we are all the same as this 'god' only with a few checks in place to keep us from being exactly like 'god'.

i do believe there are people who have a heightened brain activity, and this allows to do such things we consider "paranormal activity", ie psychics, remote viewers, telepaths, etc.

i also believe that a person is capable of opening up this ability to themselves through research and training of the mind.

Every show ive seen so far was completely mad. The first one I saw he levitated in front of a crowd then started levitating people from the crowd. The second one he lifted a car, it took him a while though. A few days ago I saw an episode where he handcuffed himself, locked himself in a coffin and they put the coffin on a conveyer beld into one of those machines that pulverises wood.

He was suppose to open the handcuffs and break out of the coffing before he went into the machine but instead the coffin got pulverised, fake blood sprayed out of the machine, the whole crowd was screaming, then he pulled himself out of the container with the pulverised wood chips.

If that wasnt camera tricks how in the name of god did he go through a pulveriser and come out in one piece.

I admit that Criss does have a pretty cool show, but if you look closely, then you can almost always figure things out. There are only a few things that have confused me, like when he lit himself on fire, fell face first into the ground, and ended being the one extinguishing himself. He is a pretty good illusionist, but the show has way too much editing. David Blaine is just the same, it's just his performance that tricks people. Any magician knows that Blaine uses simple simple tricks, but in a different way. He makes himself seem "above" his audience and it works. Then people are shocked when he does some incredible mindreading, even though it takes him awhile to get it right, they never show the times that he gets it wrong.

Also, Angel does do tricks that other magicians do, and he does some that no one else does. All in all, there is NOTHING truely REAL with his illusions, and don't give me that crap with the hooks or living in water or buried alive, because I don't consider that an illusion.

I just discoverd Chriss Angel as well and I am so impressed! David Blaine is something else too. I must say that I would really really REALLY like to know how he levitates, that is amazing.

If you really want to know, you can buy his dvd for $100, and the props will cost you around another $200. It's called "trickery", and chris angel is a good magician.

I saw the televison show. Yes, he's a good magician. He does some really impressive tricks.

There is a free million dollars of anyone who can prove themself to have super powers:

www.randi.org

Its funny no one most want a million dollars!

Anyway Chris Angel who films and edits his shows? Who is the people that see it first hand. We can make the same film if you don't mind BSing people.

1)Anyway his trick in the barrel of water he had to stop and restart. If he
had powers he would not have to stop.

2)The Deja vue in the hall I belive in a hotel or something in vegas where the people were standing in one point than appeared way down the hall at the next point. Did you see before it happened he had to get in front of the camera and block it out from full view.

3)Passing through glass at some shop it was all a setup and the paper on the window was needed why?

Until he lifts you off the ground than you can belive it. Until than take it as entertainment and remember a million dollars is a lot of money to pass up why has no one picked up the check?

Again as I said before there is more magic to the creation of a watermelon from a seed/water and dirt than anything a person acts like they can do which they can not.

However I am magic and now you will see me disappear! Poof!

criss and blaine are making alot of money for just "tricks".

blaine made a few mil in like 2003 or 02, one of those years.

and lets be honest. as human beings, we have a.d.d. . no one really gives a damn if you can levitate 2 feet off the ground. alot more freakier # happens everyday and no one gives a damn, and alot more detrimental # that affects are society daily, happens and no one gives a damn. so why would they give a damn about, what they believe to be a two cent illusionist.

i mean really. do you think the world will turn because a man can levitate or manipulate objects with his shadow(on spikedhumor.com. just search shadow magic). NO!. people dont care, even the people that experienced it first hand, probably now dont care, it was just something cool for them at the momment.

that argument is sorta innane, and its already assuming that someone with that skill has to be greedy and selfish and that the world would really waste that much money to make him/her that rich. not saying "powers" dont make you lose your ego and wants, but your assuming alot for no real reason, and its not a valid argument against their skill, if that is what it may be.

who cares. our society could probably be flying around on hover crafts and people could be levitating or able to have total memory recall. if so much money wasnt wasted on weapons, war, and useless # like the fcc and given to scientist to be used to make better equipment and be allowed more freedom to see what we, and this world really have to offer.

im ranting, bye.

Yes of course people care. Not about some fool in an 80s rock shirt an dlong hair but people need proof of something more. If it is just levitating if you can prove this to be possible it than opens up the world to a million other things. If I can float can I fly? If I can fly why can I? Can only a person who belives be able to levitate? If so is there in deed a point of faith? Having something possible based on faith opens the world back up to beliefs which are lost by each passing day. You can take your five senses and if you want to think of an imaginary one you can't due to you can not know or create nothing on something you do not know yet faith would crap on humans evolving from blobs millions of years ago... Maybe the 16 year old girl that has more interest in an Ipod may not care but a few of us left on this planet still do.

Anyway even the people on the Randi site above care. They come off as people are fools and try to break down simple minded people for having any sort of belief in super powers or aliens,etc yet they all gather on that site to discuss and offer a million dollars. So just because they need to feel special and think they need to point out they have some sort of superior logic than the alien lover on these forums they are still in the same boat. They want to belive but have obvious problems with doing so.

[edit on 20-11-2005 by japike]

From another forum

"Chris Angel Debunked/Busted

I don’t believe in giving away an illusion if you pre know the trick, but believe it is fair game to point out a Bad Illusion when it is botched and freely visible and available to the novice. It is then fair game to comment on. More important it’s fair game to point out when no illusion is involved at all…

Chris Angel has now been officially debunked and busted.. Of course most people would agree each trick on mindfreak is an illusion, but because the show is filmed, a major assumption that the crowds and reactions are real. That assumption that the illusions Angel does are before a real audience is the key separating him from a true illusionist vs a fake not worthy of his title.

Episode
Wine Barrel Escape: DejaVue Trick Botched..
Chris is shown inside the hotel coming through the doorway into a hallway. He reacts with surprise “oh and now were on tape”, as if an impromptu moment. Chris has some family and what looks to be at least 2 to 4 bystanders walking through the door with him. The camera then shows 2 different couples walking down the hall towards them.. Chris intercepts both.. He asks all four their names and asks them to be the “eyes” for the camera to validate what he is going to show them. He has one couple stand 10 feet down the hall, and the other couple stand right to his side. A group of family and other bystanders stand behind him.. all in all a typical size “impromptu” audience for his illusions. He then tells the one couple to think of a deja vue moment and hold that thought in their mind “just as he does in every illusion”, then suddenly steps DIRECTLY in front of the CAMERA completely blocking the view and couple, and says “ITS GOING TO HAPPEN NOW!” he steps aside unblocking the camera view and the couple are now at the end of the hall.

This “trick” was botched and now exposed him. When he is blocking the camera view there is a clearly defined shadow on the left wall of the couple where the blocked view copule are standing. The shadow shows them quickly moving towards the right side wall light which is creating the shadow. There is clearly a corner there and door which the corners blocks from camera view…(this is not secret most hotels have similar layouts).. the shadow clearly shows them shadow of the couple quickly ducking to the right and into one of the hotel rooms. As if this obvious botch wasn’t bad enough, right before Chris steps in front to block the cameras view, you can clearly see the girl of the couple quickly moving to the side bolting for the open hidden by corner hotel room door. Not one but TWO clearly visible dead giveaway cues..

More significant to this though is that all 3 couples react with surprise and the typical bleeped out cuss word, the couple to his side, the couple that bolts when he blocks the camera view, and the lookalike couple at the end of the hall. Them and the people behind him all clearly on the fake stunt. Note Chris was ONLY blocking the camera view now the couple to his side.. meaning they Clearly would have seen the other stooge couple bolting to the side door, thus confirming the entire crowd were stooges as no “illusion” was performed or even attempted. No illusion as defined by magick/illusions was performed and was purely obstructing camera view and paid stooges. This means that every single “illusion” that angel performs on mindfreak now can be debunked as not even illusion just obstructed view and stooges.. I pose the argument that tht is not magic or illusion and not worthy to be claimed as such.. Mindfreak is a Busted show. And Angel has been busted as phony..

This episode was Tivoed, and I’d be happy to provide the stills/video if anyone needs me to back this up.. Note I don’t have anything against Angel, I just don’t believe someone claming to be an illusionist that doesn’t perform illusions, that even botches his own camera hiding should be exposed.."

Great forum BTW

I opened a thread with this post, but later read that this is the ongoing discussion about Criss Angel, so forgive me for double posting...

Well not THE explanation, but after watching the levation tricks on video performed by Criss Angel I came up with a few theories:

First of all it is important to divide the levitation tricks into different categories, because they are quite different:
1) levatating a few feet in front of stairs or chairs, while turning his back to the audience.
2) levitating leaning backwards with one foot on the ground
3) levitating a bystander in midair
4) levitating 5 feet in the air with nothing around him.
5) levitating 5 feet in the air with an object behind him

Theories:
1) There is always an object in front of him to which he "levitates", he always has his back turned to the camera/audience. Sometimes one or two people seem to be next to him or in front of him which would have to be in on the trick. He is wearing a fake hollow, bendable leg on one leg which is attached to his shoe. The fake leg fits into the back half of his real leg. He then could just bend his knee, while putting his leg up and step up to the object in front of him. The view from behind would be two legs and two shoes next to eachother. When he has raised his other leg and the fake leg to the chair, the fake leg and shoe should fit into his real leg again. This way he can just turn around and show there are no other gimmicks present, the fake leg is reset and the trick can be performed again. His trousers would have to be cut or flexible to be able to put out a leg while his trousers at the back remain straight. In the video in the cafeteria you can actually see him make a stange move with his right leg slightly bending it, as if the fake leg didn't come of straight away and snaps back. This trick would require to lean slightly forward to keep balance, which is clearly visible when he does the trick on the escalator. When he perfoms this trick on the sidewalk -without an object in front of him- you can clearly see that it is suddenly necessary to lean sharply forward while balancing on one leg. The man passing by who has to see his leg in front of him, is clearly not impressed, from his standpoint, he propably doesn't even realize that someone is performing a trick, he just sees a man balancing on one leg.

With this trick you have to ask yourself two questions:
-Why not just levitate and land on the ground again? Because that would make it suspicous that an object in front of him is necessary. He cleverly has an excuse that a chair needs to be in front of him, because he is going to land on it, classical misdirecting of a magician.
-Why not perform the trick without an object in front of him? Well because it wouldn't be possible then, otherwise he would have shown it, because that would make the trick MUCH more impressive. When he does it on the sidewalk without an object, there is no audience behind him, just the camera from slightly above, because people standing directly behind would be able to see it.

2) In the video I saw he clearly stamps his right foot, and could insert a metal pole hidden in his right leg into the ground, the location seems to be selected by himself, so perhaps a prepared ground is needed with a hollow pipe. When he bends backwards while bending his knees, a metal mechanism hidden in his leg and back bends with him but locks at 90 degrees. He is then able to straighten out his other leg. Why not straighten out both legs at the same time? Or first one leg and then the other? This seems a giveaway to me. He also did this trick with a bystander which would have to be in on his trick. Only this time she has two legs on the ground when bend backwards and he shows that there is nothing under her back. Then he also straightens her legs but doesn't show again there still isn't anything under her back. So this would mean that she has the pole in one of her legs when he shows there is nothing under her back, but it is removed after another pole has risen from the ground (or is pulled down from her back) to support her back and connect with the metal plate she is wearing there. Conveniently he immediately lowers her which could be the pole in the ground simply descending. At this time the camera doesn't give a clear view of what's under her anymore. Again classical misdirection by a magician, first show that there isn't anything at a certain place, so that later when there is something there the audience is just tricked into thinking it can't be because it wasn't there before.

You have to ask yourself why the straightening of both legs isn't performed when he is levitating himself, surely the trick would be much more impressive if he would do that instead of just straightening just one leg? The answer is that it requires another person to make sure the pole from the ground connects with the back of the woman. In the video there are cuts and a shot where he may have touched the lower of her back may have been left out.

3) There is no other possiblity than that the whole crowd is in on the trick. The crowd looks unnaturally disciplined forming an ordered circle around him, no other people seem to walk by or join the crowd, this is in the middle of the streets of Las Vegas right? She simple hangs from a cable from above. He makes a point of having the camera looking up before the trick but neglects this when she is actually levitating. This trick is always performed outside, why not do this trick in the cafetaria? Because a crane would have a hard time fitting into there.

4) A cable from above, no other possibility, usually there are no bystanders so that is just a camera trick. The cases where he did this with crowds (which are always just a few people), but with the wall behind him, could only happen if the crowd was in on the trick.

5) This is the video with the plants behind him performed for just 1 bystander. The plants could conceal a contraption which connects with a metal plate in his back. It is suspicous that he always walks up to the camera immedtaily after landing on the ground, perhaps allowing something behind him to quickly hide itself. This trick could also be with just a cable and a bystander who is in on the trick, it is suspicous that there isn't a crowd.

Well just theories, but it's not impossible to reach the same results with it.

Hmm, I have a feeling that just about everything on Criss Angel's show is fake. I think it's all 'tv magic' with tons of planning and what not. I doubt he could honestly go and perform any of his illusions to a random crowd. They're always in on it!


I don't know if this has been posted in here but I found this explanation for him going through the glass on IMDB.

"The whole wall the window was in was built just for the trick. The people on the right and left of the window holding the paper were in on the trick, as was the guy inside the room. Everyone else was innocent!

Anyway, after they put the paper over the window, Criss goes and gets the stepping stool his needs, and then forgets to take his shoes off. This was the time the trick happened...genius!

The glass was very flat and very clean...so you could not tell it slowly slid up into the wall, like a pocket door does, except vertically. The bottom of the window, that used to be covered by the bottom part of the wall, has a U shaped cut out in the glass. He steps through the U shaped hole and through the paper, and they carefully slide the glass back down in the wall and hide the hole.

Beautiful touches...the "open" sign in the window makes you think it is attached to the glass, therefore the glass "can't" be moving if the "open" sign never moves! And the fuzzed out name over the door makes you think it was a real company and a real wall. Excellent touches! "

[edit on 12/18/2005 by xxblackoctoberxx]

Now that I look more there is a ton of explanations for most of his tricks on IMDB.

www.imdb.com...

[edit on 12/18/2005 by xxblackoctoberxx]

He wears a flat magnet plate on his back under his shirt with the polarity matched to the magnets buried in the ground.
Watch the park levitation again and notice the area they are levitating on has dirt that has been disturbed.

[edit on 18-12-2005 by KDX175DUEX]

There is a free million dollars of anyone who can prove themself to have super powers:

www.randi.org

Its funny no one most want a million dollars!
japike

I guess not. Money must not be the top priority to these illusionists. I saw Copperfield live three times, and I am impressed. Blaine and Angell are just as amazing. If Copperfield does 150 shows a year and averages 5000 people at $50 each, which is conservative, then he doesn't need more money. Skeptics like Randi are great, and I like him a lot, but he can't do what those guys do, nor can he explain how it is done. When I saw Copperfield fly around our arena, it was beyond my ability to dispute that he can fly. Whatever the trick is, it's pretty cool.

I'm not sure i quite understand some of the posters here, claiming to "debunk" magicians like chris angel, or david blaine.. and calling them "fake"..

they are MAGICIANS. Um... you know, entertainers? Of course its "fake". If you don't like magic tricks, don't watch the show.

In the acts I have attended, the magic tricks were far beyond my ability to even offer a possible method they were done. But, I understand the skeptics, their position is rational. It is one thing to discount something, but another thing completely to explain exactly why it is not real. To deny without an alternate solution is rather tenuous.
Magicians do stuff that their most vocal, intelligent critics cannot explain.