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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright


Crookes and Home were budies, though. Were they not? Crookes was a believer and was grasping at straws re the paranormal due to losing a brother. And I understand that. More than you know.




In a well-lit room before Professor David Wells of Harvard and three other spiritualist investigators, Home caused a table to move all about, even though he stood nowhere near it. It took all the strength of two of the witnesses to restrain the table. Upon its release, the table levitated completely off the floor for several seconds. When Wells and two others sat on the table, it continued to rock. They could find no scientific explanation for the experience.


I guess Professor Wells from Harvard was also a close friend?




Originally posted by yeahright
Houdini's on record stating Home was a fake. Houdini was doing fine without copying anyone. And the "copying" issue has come up before on this thread. Copying amongst entertainers is viewed much like plagarism. You don't want to do someone else's act. That's a road to ostracism. You don't see Lewis Black doing George Carlin's material, either.


Home never claimed to be an entertainer nor a magician.

Both Blaine and CA do levitation's the latter just happens to be much more impressive.

A magician levitating in Houdini's time would have been a feat greater than what CA does today. Simply because no one could not claim invisible wires or video editing back then.

Just because Houdini claimed he was a fake he never proved he was a fake. Stating something does not make it so.

Lets not forget Houdini said he could duplicate Home's levitation's but he never did.


Prominent stage magicians such as Harry Houdini, John Nevil Mackelyne, and John Mulholland claimed that they could duplicate Home's feats but never did. Houdini announced he would duplicate Home's levitation at Lord Adare's home, but cancelled the event.


Like I said for a magician in Houdini times levitating would have been the greatest act in the world. Just look at the popularity of CA today doing it.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by etshrtslr]




posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 02:25 PM
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I can't believe I've allowed myself to get dragged back into this. And it's no one's fault but mine. And I' promising myself I'm stopping after this.

I feel like I've wandered onto a playground and butted into a conversation nine year olds are having about whether Superman can beat up The Hulk.

We start with Criss Angel and suddenly it's about Home. Or the British guy with the new show.

And Crookes's investigation. Now it's some Harvard dude who saw a table levitate. Maybe he WAS a friend of Home's, I'm not interested enough to check. At this point, who knows what went on back then? I don't. But I'm pretty confident about what didn't go on.

Much like I'm pretty sure no one saw women consorting with the Devil in the woods in the pale moonlight, even though they were executed for it.

I'm satisfied no one's mind is going to be changed about this. So if me bailing out is a victory for the "believers", that's fine. You win. I've been worn down and out. Some things just aren't worth the effort.




posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 03:49 PM
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Wow I have managed to get on both PR and Eyewitness86's ignore list. I feel proud.

Anyhow can one of the believers out there explain the small levitation that CA does in the restaurant/Cafeteria? It doesn't strike anyone odd that there "just" happens to be a chair right in front of CA as he levitates with his back to the audience?

Still no answer on the CA being driven through the wall in the Car/Chicken video. Hmmm. Or the Mirror illusion. Too bad PR and eyewitness can't debate without resorting to the namecalling or providing a real rebuttal to valid questions. Explain away the chair in front of CA in the restaurant video?

Thank you for ignoring me BTW, it means much more to me that you
"winning" the debate. As if either of you have ever been on a debate team.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 04:11 PM
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Apologies if the mock up wall idea has been adressed

I am not that naiive! I know Santa doesn't float across my rooftop xmas eve.

I know his bother is part of the crew, and naturally they are going to rehearse what is said publicly, but this does not prove he is being deceptive or in the dark about CA's powers. The "glazed look" comes off as part of this rehearsed act, to me.

I like Criss Angel, and enjoy his show very much. I recognize his talents, and agree with you completely that he is gifted. Yes he can read people very well, I'm not discrediting that.

He is a very good Illusionist, and I don't believe he is really levitating or walking up and down walls. When he says "what you see is what you get", that is the clue - the illusion is what you SEE.

The only proof you offer is what you SEE on the finshed product of a MF.show. Have you attended a live demonstraion?

When he says some stuff is real, that means the fish hooks, the steamroller is real (but an illusion he is ran over) the magic being presented is real and done live, and all the dangerous stunts are real. "Blurring the lines" means he is gifted at fooling you into not knowing the difference, evident by your assertion some of his illusions are real.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I'm watching the video violet posted right now, it should be noted that at around 8:35, CA levitates topless. NO HARNESS.

Just for you, pavil


Good find
I didn't notice that!



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 04:16 PM
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I know you think Darren Brown is right up there with CA but he really is a skeptic of the paranormal. Take a look.



I think this video sums up the likes of my two ignoring buddies.

Oh btw, Darren Brown appears on the Channel 4 program "Enemies of Reason". Part one just happend and part 2 in on August 20th.

Wonder why he appeared on that, don't you?

Can't wait for the You Tube videos of it.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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Good video. Thsi demonstates how people can be convnced to believe anything. Just like the Amagosa (sp?) ghosthunt CA did, they all believed they saw a ghost



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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Pavil, in relation to CA's levitation up onto the chair, this video is of CA himself debunking his own levitation trick.





[edit on 14-8-2007 by fooffstarr]



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 07:12 PM
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PR
Have you seen this video?
At the very end of the interview, the DJ's joke and question him if he's Jesus. It's hard to read his reaction. Thought you might find it interesting.

Vi deo



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
Pavil, in relation to CA's levitation up onto the chair, this video is of CA himself debunking his own levitation trick.



Preaching to the choir here foof. Just wait till you hear the explanation from the other side.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 12:20 AM
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So what do you make of it? pavil was pretty quick to write it off, but I think this is a pretty huge deal! Considering the fuss he made about CA always wearing his shirt and jacket when he levitates....

No shirt, no jacket, no harness, no wires, just him hanging there in the air.... how could that be?



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

So what do you make of it? pavil was pretty quick to write it off, but I think this is a pretty huge deal! Considering the fuss he made about CA always wearing his shirt and jacket when he levitates....

No shirt, no jacket, no harness, no wires, just him hanging there in the air.... how could that be?



Even though you didn't ask me. Hmmm, what about some of these. No Shirt, No Jacket, No Harness, No Wires in some of these shots. They must be TK masters too. What is the difference?



Ohhhhh CA descending from all of what, 3 1/2 feet there? Must be incontrovertible proof of his powers. He wouldn't need a big rig for that shot. Where is the start of that levitation BTW?



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by pavil

Preaching to the choir here foof. Just wait till you hear the explanation from the other side.


I don't envy you, continuing this debate with PR and eyewitness, but you have far more patience then i do. I tried earlier on in the topic to discuss this, but as i've said, it's like talking to a brick wall through a layer of concrete.

Good luck in the debate, and i hope the video helps, but i can't be much help myself as my temper would take over and i don't want warnings



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 03:59 AM
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These Ninja stunts are done by then jumping on trampolines. Then the trampolines are edited out for the effect - the same way CA's wires etc are edited.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
So what do you make of it? pavil was pretty quick to write it off, but I think this is a pretty huge deal! Considering the fuss he made about CA always wearing his shirt and jacket when he levitates....

No shirt, no jacket, no harness, no wires, just him hanging there in the air.... how could that be?


I missed seeing him with no shirt, so will have to watch it again to find that. But I'm sure even if he has no shirt, he still has the wrist straps, arm bands whatever they are. I think he has an entire stationary set hidden in those!

I did notice though, that when he is levitating with one leg on the ground, his pants puff up in the crotch. As if air was blowing them up. Also noticed in this same segment, that it is calm, then the next frame suddenly gusty winds are blowing. His pants puffed up before the wind. So maybe he hides something in his pants?

Another thing, since he has shown himself on video, how he does the levitation illusion. If he has to fake a small one, he obviously cant manage this by his superhuman powers, so why would you think he is doing these building to building ones?


[edit on 15-8-2007 by violet]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:01 AM
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Hi Eyewitness86,


Originally posted by eyewitness86
Now, on to more interesting things: PR, very good explanations about the nature of the forces behind Criss abilities: Darren Brown using a finger to pop the stunned people back was telling to you and I believe what you say about that aspect..iot makes sense. Darren has a tremendous ability to influence minds and memories, cause sleep, hypnosis, etc..whatever it is, and quickly. The people that are most susceptible to being influenced fall under pretty fast. Suggestive words and some force get it done fast.

Darren would win hands down in any evet where it was primarily a contect of abilities centered on the psychic, influential, hypnotic, personal influence type of powers; Criss would dominate in the physical manifestations such as levitating, moving through solid objects, etc. Darren has the mind more than the body and Criss has the ' body ' more than the mind; although both can do some amazing things, I am more impressed overall by Darren!!

Great analysis



Originally posted by eyewitness86
I hope that people who possess advanced abilities are always cognizant of their obligation to the Golden Rule.

Those with a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis and those that supply that energy, do not always use it ethically. This causes the discarnate community or Group Entity to retrogress away from The Light - depending upon the extent of the abuse, the degree of energy used, and the percentage of membership involved. The channeler or medium also lessens in development from his or her participation, depending on the degree of severity. Oftentimes, Group Entities will supply healing energies to those they abuse or humiliate in some way to counterbalance the karmic debt which would lead to retrogression and a weakening of their overall energy level in The Light.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
So I feel relived and can move on to bigger and better things: If the Gifts of the Spirit are due to group entities, etc., why so they give such a disparity of Gifts to people? What I mean is why would Darren, with advanced chi and mind powers, be less able to do the levitations and disappearances, reappearances, etc. that Criss does? One might think , perhaps wrongly , that to levitate would be minor or lesser gift than the ones that directly impact the mind and consciousness at many levels, like with Darren.

A couple of factors are involved here. First, it depends on the focus of the GE and the focus of the medium. Secondly, it depends upon how large the GE is as this dictates how much energy they can draw upon.

Being able to telepathically manipulate someone (this business about it all being in the mind is just a ploy) takes much less energy than to levitate high in the air or teleport someone body and soul.

Darren Brown's "touchless Chi punch" that makes someone double over, takes more GE energy than his telepathic manipulations/projections.

Criss Angel also does telepathic manipulations/projections with his GE. He has often taken someone from the audience - usually a young girl who is receptive and intuitive (psychically open) - and puts her into a hypnotic state without any effort in induction. I was a certified Hypnotherapist and know what is involved to induce a hypnotic state. She looks at him and he puts her under in less than a minute. Then she is levitated.

That ability to put someone under quickly, without having to say much of anything, is a Gift of Telepathic Manipulation. Both Criss Angel and Darren Brown have this from their respective Group Entity or discarnate community.

In the overall sense, Criss Angel has more energy at his command than does Darren Brown, because the discarnate community of Angel is larger than the discarnate community of Darren Brown. Angel's is also larger than that of Uri Geller, David Blaine, and Cyril Takayama. This can be ascertained by the particular feats involved, as some manifestations take more energy than others.

On the topic of manifestations, Cyril, in a rare glimpse of phasing in clear sight (at about the 38 second mark), one will actually see a cigarette appear in his hand.

Cyril Takayama - Cigarette

I've seen sleight-of-hand and know what is involved. The above is not sleight-of-hand. He is actually teleporting a cigarette about.

Referred to as phasing, whereby something or someone is teleported all at once; as opposed to beaming when matter is first broken down and then reassembled elsewhere, and which requires much more God Force. Phasing is the preferred method of Group Entity teleportation because beaming is tantamount in energy to creating something in the first place.

Criss Angel make things appear in the same manner, he has done so many times. But he hides them - as with the elephant phasings - so people can't say that he is using teleportation. If need be, he can just fall back and say it was just an illusion.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
Lets find a few good Darren video's and juztapose them with Criss' and see if any features of them give us a clue that we may have missed before as to the extent of the abilities and importance to the world we inhabit.

Good idea.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
PR, you did a great job of holding up the flag while I was gone!!Still no bullet holes in it and flying high!

Thanks.

I am very busy today in moving from an apartment to a townhouse but will try to pop in when I can.




posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:06 AM
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violet,

Some of what Criss Angel does is an illusion. Like when he pulled a woman apart on a park bench. And some of what he does is real, like his high levitations.

I have not only attended live demonstrations of people with a Gift but have also done it, albeit rarely, myself.

Experience plays a key role in being able to determine what is an illusion and what is the result of a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis.


Originally posted by violet
Another thing, since he has shown himself on video, how he does the levitation illusion. If he has to fake a small one, he obviously cant manage this by his superhuman powers, so why would you think he is doing these building to building ones?

He uses illusion as well as telekinesis.

The ploy is a good one.

He fakes the low levitation while never explaining how he does the high levitations.

Quite clever actually.



[edit on 15-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 07:42 AM
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Just a quick question:

Does anyone have, or has anyone seen, the full set of footage from Cirss' headcam when he walks on water? I was reviewing the footage offerred in the Boradcast version, and may have noticed something interesting in his last few steps, but because of the shortness of the footage and lack of any other top angle, I cant make a full judgement.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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Here is a video of Criss using a ' voodoo doll ' to affect people, and himself. I would be interested on hearing INTELLIGENT opinions as to how it works; saying that it is staged with paid actors is foolish and not allowable as an alternative. One cannot simply dismiss all events that they cannot explain as ' set up's '; that is more ridiculous than beliving what you see.




Here is one with Derren Brown making people ill and uncomfortable with his abilities:



One is direct and one is indirect but both affect the people dramatically. If one sees the brain as a set of coils made of copper and able to be altered by input of electrons, it is easy to see how confusion could be managed and applied. Like overwhelming a frequency with many sidebands until the main frequency was indestinguishable to the brain. I am sure that PR has a better idea as to exactly HOW it works but I am convinced that we are seeing real and true examples of this phenom at work.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by violet
I did notice though, that when he is levitating with one leg on the ground, his pants puff up in the crotch. As if air was blowing them up. Also noticed in this same segment, that it is calm, then the next frame suddenly gusty winds are blowing. His pants puffed up before the wind. So maybe he hides something in his pants?


Well if you're suggesting that the harness is around his crotch instead of his torso - OUCH!!!!!!

Talk about the wedgie from hell!!!



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