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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:12 PM
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Man oh man..I have just spent the better part of an hour watching the Derren Brown video's..what a master!! this guy has some unreal abilities. Different than the others for sure, not the same in any way, but still amazing. This is almost a bit scary when you consider how easily he manages to fool people and dominate them and direct them..and not just patsies either.

I was for many years in sales and I learned a number of techniques for closing sales and for assuring customers that they had made a good choice, etc., but this goes way beyond normal body language and trigger words;' this guy gets people to hand over their wallets and jewelry, accept blank paper for money, take expired and useless tickets at the dog track and get money..unreal.

I am a bold person and I have used inference and assumption in the remote past to influence certain scenarios, but this guy is the boss of bosses, the Capo de Tuti Cappi of manipulation and hypnosis and subtlety.

The video where he takes that poor man and places him in a catatonic state and then transports the guy to Marrakesch from London while he is under..still in a photo booth, and when he comes around and starts trying to comprehend his surroundings..it is really sad and scary at once; to see how easily a person could be totally befuddled, perhaps thinking that they had lost their mind... and all with only the use of words, suggestions, and in a few cases, lights and sound to totally disorient a person and influence their behavior radically.

In addition, Darren has some amazing abilities with his kinetic energy and intuition and memory. What a freakin memory!! this guy has more than the minimum brain cells working at full speed, guaranteed. I was really impressed with his psychological knowledge and the advanced understanding of human tendencies; a person like that could literally go through life taking whatever they want, if they were unscrupled, that is. Darren uses distraction, certain phrasing, and sheer balls to accomplish some amazing stuff; the Jewelry store was a great example; he goes in and selects a $ 4500.00 ring, tells the guy to wrap it up, chatting all the while and gesturing, then hands the guy a stack of plain blank paper, white, and the jeweler takes it and gives him the receipt!!

It is a truth that most people will allow themselves to be led and manipulated and all it takes is for a person to act like they have authority and take charge; the people will fall into line almost every time.

The Dog Track example blew my mind: cashiers at gambling establishments are not careless and easily fooled people, they are trained to spot virtually any scheme and to scrutinize every ticket; yet Darren just says a few words and hands over losing tickets and collects the cash! I watched it closely, and all it took was this : The guy with the losing ticket just says : "This is the winning ticket , and This is the dog you are looking for ". In every instance, even after the machine that reads the tickets rejected it, the cashiers would see the winning number in their brain and pay the amount due for a win. It was priceless !!

Different cashiers, same story. All it took was a direction, an implication that they would see the winning number and they did!! Amazing. The scariest part was in seeing the inability of some people to resist Darrens approaches and they literally could be used in ways that they have no control over. People are so easily led!! I have always been very independent and would never hand over my wallet and phone and stuff to some guy on the street just because he asks for it; but then again who is to say? The guy on the video did it, and seemed like a regular sort. You could see him react automatically and see the blank look come over him while Darren was manipulating his mind with different inputs; for example, Darren will wave his hands in certain ways, and use certain words, and gesture and point..and draw the attention from one thing to several things before the victim knows that he has just been hoodwinked.

One of the funniest examples, and most telling as to how weak we are and how easily led we are, is the many people that Darren approaches on a train or bus or whatever..All he has to do is ask them what stop they are getting off at, the ' victim ' tells him; then, Darren starts talking fast about hopw they are doing a documentary on how easy it is to forget something that was just on your mind, on the tip of the tongue, how it just slips away, and then he asks the people where they are getting off, and they have all forgotten!! They are stumped, cannot recall their stops; in one case the poor victim missed getting off because Darren made him forget and the train took him past his stop and pissed him off!!

I will watch more of this guys stuff and see what is the deal with him; but for now I am super impressed and a bit alarmed at the same time: If Darren can manipulate and influence people to such incredible degress, then it says a hell of a lot about us as a species and about how vulnerable we are to subtle influences and mainipulations; in the wrong hands, the abilities that Darren shows could be used for nefarious purposes, and quite easily.

Thanks for the link and along with Cyril and David and Criss I think that Darren is a major player in some very amazing mind games and real innate abilities as well. A most unique fellow!!




posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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I have a question for the two Chris Angel believers in this thread.

How do you determine what tricks are done through "superpowers" and what is done via traditional/modern illusions?

Seems you two have superpowers of your own...you are able to determine what is an illusion and what is super human....just by viewing a video.

So how exactly do you know? Do you determine this by what seems really impressive or by what seems impossible? Maybe you simply determine it by not knowing how it could be preformed via illusion. You have said time and time again that your belief in Chris is not based on faith so I would like to know, how YOU KNOW, what is real and what is not. Because faith is not involved here you should be able to provide clear evidence or proof.

Can't wait for your answers.....



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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Have those who believe in Angels "powers" bothered to search his name on youtube? He shows exactly how he levitates.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
Have those who believe in Angels "powers" bothered to search his name on youtube? He shows exactly how he levitates.



Maybe you could post those vids for us?
please.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone

Originally posted by slackerwire
Have those who believe in Angels "powers" bothered to search his name on youtube? He shows exactly how he levitates.



Maybe you could post those vids for us?
please.

Of course


Criss Angel levitation exposed



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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thanks for the vid.

However I think the main discussion here is about the High levitation trick by CA.

The luxor mainly.

Cool video though.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone
thanks for the vid.

However I think the main discussion here is about the High levitation trick by CA.

The luxor mainly.

Cool video though.


No prob


I live in Las Vegas and on occasion I've had the opportunity to see CA walking through the Planet Hollywood Casino (formerly the Aladdin), and his schtick is basically camera tricks and some knowledge on the part of certain audience members. There are quite a few other "CA exposed" vids on youtube, and if they are all true, they make his "powers" seem quite elementary. Angel has one thing going for him that most great illusionists have: showmanship.

For those who are interested in magic please take a look at this trick and see if you can help me figure it out.

(note for mods: that is my blog, I am not promoting it, this trick has me truly stumped and I have been unable to figure out how it was done, if need be I can remove the link, it just saved me the time of typing it all out again)

[edit on 12-8-2007 by slackerwire]



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The feat of floating a lit-up light bulb can only be faked on a specially designed magician's stage and with a number of assistants.



Originally posted by pavil
That is an incorrect statement. The full blown above the crowd floating light bulb needs that, the one CA performed does not.

Why is that?


Originally posted by pavil
CA even pay homage to Blackstone, albeit not directly, at the start of the clip by refering to reading about it.

That is irrelevant.


Many martial artists pay homage to Bruce Lee and cannot do what he did.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
So the only contention you can now pose is that the lamp store was a pre-rigged magician's stage and that the people shown there are paid assistants.


Your entire argument falls apart.



Originally posted by pavil
Again I will let others decide who is right and who is wrong. If CA were doing the fullblown, have the light bulb float 10 feet above the audience's head Blackstone routine, then yes, he would need multiple assistants and a very controlled enviorment. CA did the smaller version of this trick which would not need an elaborate setup and could be done in such a place as the light store. At no time is the light bulb more than 10 -15 feet from CA, just like the description of the trick I have shown.

You are being very vague in your explanation and don't provide us with the "how" it is done.


Originally posted by pavil
As for you comments on Darren Brown, he is great in my opinon, but still does not have a "special" gift. He himself is very skeptical of paranormal phenomena himself and states at the start of each episode that he uses.

You don't think anyone can have a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis, so this doesn't surprise me.


Like Criss Angel, he denies having any Gift so he can then do things that veteran magicians cannot do - outside of a specially designed stage and props - and become wealthy in the process.


Originally posted by pavil
You both seem to disbelieve even the subjects themselves, CA or DB when they say they don't have extraordinary powers, how will anyone else convice you then, your minds are made up, regardless of any evidence presented.

Because they are not people of principle; they are simply out to make a buck



Originally posted by pavil
In the armored car illusion CA in his first sentence mentions that it is an illusion yet you don't believe him? Wow.

I'd be willing to bet that, if cornered, he will say that ALL of his feats are illusions.

In truth, some are and some are not.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:21 PM
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Hi Eyewitness86,

Criss Angel would make a very interesting spy indeed.

I'd like so see him strap a miniature video camera on his head that was water and shock proof, and then go about teleporting on to Zetan spacecraft and rescue abductees from medical experimentation, dissection, slavery, etc.

In which case I would applaud Criss Angel in using his Gifts constructively.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
Man oh man..I have just spent the better part of an hour watching the Derren Brown video's..what a master!! this guy has some unreal abilities. Different than the others for sure, not the same in any way, but still amazing. This is almost a bit scary when you consider how easily he manages to fool people and dominate them and direct them..and not just patsies either.

Don't be too impressed. It is just a Gift of the Spirit.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
I was for many years in sales and I learned a number of techniques for closing sales and for assuring customers that they had made a good choice, etc., but this goes way beyond normal body language and trigger words;' this guy gets people to hand over their wallets and jewelry, accept blank paper for money, take expired and useless tickets at the dog track and get money..unreal.

As stated, this is more than hypnosis.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
I am a bold person and I have used inference and assumption in the remote past to influence certain scenarios, but this guy is the boss of bosses, the Capo de Tuti Cappi of manipulation and hypnosis and subtlety.

Telepathic manipulation is the name of the game here.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
The video where he takes that poor man and places him in a catatonic state and then transports the guy to Marrakesch from London while he is under..still in a photo booth, and when he comes around and starts trying to comprehend his surroundings..it is really sad and scary at once; to see how easily a person could be totally befuddled, perhaps thinking that they had lost their mind... and all with only the use of words, suggestions, and in a few cases, lights and sound to totally disorient a person and influence their behavior radically.

I don't recall that particular feat but it reminds me of when Criss Angel put his arm through an unsuspecting man's chest who happened to walk in on a shoot. That man was dazed and confused also.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
In addition, Darren has some amazing abilities with his kinetic energy and intuition and memory. What a freakin memory!! this guy has more than the minimum brain cells working at full speed, guaranteed. I was really impressed with his psychological knowledge and the advanced understanding of human tendencies; a person like that could literally go through life taking whatever they want, if they were unscrupled, that is.

BINGO


Originally posted by eyewitness86
Darren uses distraction, certain phrasing, and sheer balls to accomplish some amazing stuff; the Jewelry store was a great example; he goes in and selects a $ 4500.00 ring, tells the guy to wrap it up, chatting all the while and gesturing, then hands the guy a stack of plain blank paper, white, and the jeweler takes it and gives him the receipt!!

Again, a telepathic manipulation via a Gift.

Many years ago I knew a woman who relayed a story about someone who manipulated her into forgetting something she was thinking of. There was no induction involved. She was manipulated on a telepathic level via a Gift that an older man had.

There are certain defenses that one can perform to offset this.

For example, while breathing in white light with each breath, visualize a gold and/or white shield around oneself. This can be very effective.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
The Dog Track example blew my mind: cashiers at gambling establishments are not careless and easily fooled people, they are trained to spot virtually any scheme and to scrutinize every ticket; yet Darren just says a few words and hands over losing tickets and collects the cash! I watched it closely, and all it took was this : The guy with the losing ticket just says : "This is the winning ticket , and This is the dog you are looking for ". In every instance, even after the machine that reads the tickets rejected it, the cashiers would see the winning number in their brain and pay the amount due for a win. It was priceless !!

Darren Brown is not in danger of being a Saint. Criss Angel and David Blaine aren't either.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
Different cashiers, same story. All it took was a direction, an implication that they would see the winning number and they did!! Amazing. The scariest part was in seeing the inability of some people to resist Darrens approaches and they literally could be used in ways that they have no control over. People are so easily led!!

Actually, people are not so easily misled.

Telepathic manipulation enables Brown to implant the visual imagery he wants into the minds of those he targets. Unless one is very aware of oneself and has training in this area, one can be fooled.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
I have always been very independent and would never hand over my wallet and phone and stuff to some guy on the street just because he asks for it; but then again who is to say? The guy on the video did it, and seemed like a regular sort. You could see him react automatically and see the blank look come over him while Darren was manipulating his mind with different inputs; for example, Darren will wave his hands in certain ways, and use certain words, and gesture and point..and draw the attention from one thing to several things before the victim knows that he has just been hoodwinked.

Group Entities constantly do this sort of thing and not just through a person that they grant a Gift. It can and does also happen directly.

The reason why I know this is because I have experienced it MANY TIMES.

One needs to learn how to discriminate between a projected telepathic memory or image, and a physical image or actual memory. If one is adequately aware of oneself and not on medication or sick, one can learn to quickly see through these attempted deceptions and manipulations.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
One of the funniest examples, and most telling as to how weak we are and how easily led we are, is the many people that Darren approaches on a train or bus or whatever..All he has to do is ask them what stop they are getting off at, the ' victim ' tells him; then, Darren starts talking fast about hopw they are doing a documentary on how easy it is to forget something that was just on your mind, on the tip of the tongue, how it just slips away, and then he asks the people where they are getting off, and they have all forgotten!! They are stumped, cannot recall their stops; in one case the poor victim missed getting off because Darren made him forget and the train took him past his stop and pissed him off!!


With that London subway trick, when he waves his hand in front of people and then they don't remember their stop until he taps their forehead, that isn't hypnosis, that's mental manipulation via a Gift. Note also that it doesn't work every time. There was this one Caucasian male that didn't forget his stop regardless of Brown's attempts. The energy isn't always there.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
I will watch more of this guys stuff and see what is the deal with him; but for now I am super impressed and a bit alarmed at the same time: If Darren can manipulate and influence people to such incredible degress, then it says a hell of a lot about us as a species and about how vulnerable we are to subtle influences and mainipulations; in the wrong hands, the abilities that Darren shows could be used for nefarious purposes, and quite easily.

Thanks for the link and along with Cyril and David and Criss I think that Darren is a major player in some very amazing mind games and real innate abilities as well. A most unique fellow!!

They certainly can be entertaining at times but they are not ethical or spiritual people.




posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:32 PM
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In answer to the query about how we can tell which events are sublime and which are mundane, here is my thoughts on that:

If an event has no explanation OTHER than the sublime, from all available evidence, then it is a sublime event. If there are any ways in which the feat could have been done with props, etc. then it needs to be examined and studied to see what props might allow for such an event. If there is any evidence of props, or if the event has been performed by other ' illusionists ' using props, then that might very well be good reason to classify that as a possible illusion and not a sublime event.

But, in the case of certain events, there is NO way, other than outrageous assumption of factors not in evidence whatsoever, to deny that there is NO way that props were or could have been used to pull of the event. What is the likleihood? In some events, the likelihood of Criss using sleight of hand or diverting the attention, etc. might be high; but on some events, the likelihood is zilch. The Luxor Hotel event is one such example of absolutely NO evidence to the contrary of the view that Criss used only his abilities and no props at all. The naysayers have to get really sily and beyond the even remotely possible to come up with a way to explain it other than the sublime.

So, in essence, when you discount film trickery, which there has never been any evidence of, and no former employees or friends or contractors or anyone else have ever stated that they witnesses trickery such as film editing to alter the reality of what was seen , paid witnesses, none of whom have ever come forward..legions of fans and witnesses who swear that they are stumped and unable to explain certain events..Taken in whole, the odds are so high that there is no props used in certaoin events that to believe otherwise stretches the bounds of imagination and intelligent appraisal of facts.

The Luxor event, the coin in the flesh event, the mirror event, the golf course event, the hotel walking events; these among many others are telling examples of INEXPLICABLE EVENTS by ordinary means. they ARE explicable by means of accepting the main premise: That certain people can and do have the abilities to defy the ' laws ' that we call the nature around us and comprehend so little of.Once one acepts the fact that Criss CAN do these things, then it begins to dawn upon the newly aware that it is not such a big deal considering..once the door is open the possibilites are unbounded as to what new events might take place in the near future.

Imagine soon when it is taken for granted that people can perform feats that for now seem amazing; when they are common, at least to a degree, only really spectacular events will get much attention. That is why Criss tries to keep it very low key and to deny any ' super ' powers as long as he can: He makes a lot more money by amazing people and keeping them wondering HOW he does it than he would by simply saying " Yeah, I can float and do all kinds of weird stuff and here is how ".

By the way, the posters above who are trying to trot out the old canards that we have already shot down, no thanks. that was covered 10 pages ago. If you can figure a way that an event could be done with props, and see evidence of such, of any type, then you have reason to dig further. If an event would be impossible to perform with props under the circumstances and according to the evidence, then it may be assumed to be sublime. If any evidence can be found to refute that belief, then fine. If not, then assuming nonsensical and unlikely causes fir the event is dishonest and inaccurate.

It really is not too hard to determine the ones that have no props: you cannot see any and there are no indications of any and any that were there would have to be so invisible that they could not be made of known materials or would be unable to be hung or supported by anything above the event; such as an open sky!! When your mind is really staggered and you just cannot seem to firgure out how he could possible do it, you have reached the point of accepting the truth and not denying it and trying to explain it away with excuses that simply cannot be.

The vast majority of Criss performances are centered on his abilities that NO ONE ELSE has, at least to the degree that he does; while the vast majority of all OTHER performers events are cenetered on the illusion side with a few examples of the sublime thrown in, such as Cyril and David to a degree. The magicians who never leave the stage are a totally different breed than the street performers, and King amongst them is Criss Angel: up front, many witnesses, no evidence of any props and events that no one else on this earth can duplicate.

There are NO films on Youtube or anywhere else that can explain the high levitations and other feats that Criss does that are unique to him. Those sad ' expose ' videos are ALL irrelevant because NONE of them can show anyone else doing the same things. High levitations and mirrors and many more events prove that Criss does iondeed do what we see him do, and with nothing to explain it but the truth: No props, just Criss. The implications may be staggering for some, thus the Denial, but better to be staggered by truth than by the baseless and empty alternative reasons that the Denier's use without shame time after time.

Look, listen, use all of your critical facilities to discern the events as you see them, and then do NOT immediately go into denial mode and maybe you will begin to see what Criss is using to hold him up in the air: The things that are not apparent but that are really there anyway!!



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:46 PM
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Derren Brown wins over CA hands down!!!



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
I have a question for the two Chris Angel believers in this thread.

How do you determine what tricks are done through "superpowers" and what is done via traditional/modern illusions?

Good question.

In my case (not in order):

1. By understanding the process of Chi and Telekinesis.
2. By understanding the limitations of magic (stage illusion).
3. By having had experience with Chi and Telekinesis.
4. By using intuition stemming from a credible source that amounts to a Gift of Discernment.
5. By closely analyzing what is being done and how, i.e., by being a critical observer.
6. By using logical extrapolation.


Originally posted by kinglizard
Seems you two have superpowers of your own...you are able to determine what is an illusion and what is super human....just by viewing a video.

I don't claim to have any "superpowers" and I doubt that eyewitness86 does either. You do not need that in order to perform a good analysis.

Sometimes one can determine if it is an illusion simply through critical observation. Like Criss Angel's trick of pulling a woman apart on a park bench. That one was quickly dismissed as an illusion.

The testimony of eyewitnesses also plays a role in making a determination.

Once in a while the Gift of Discernment would kick in and confirm or deny what I have determined through logical extrapolation and experience. Usually though it serves to validate what I have already concluded.


Originally posted by kinglizard
So how exactly do you know?

See #1-6 above.

Some of the feats on video are not good examples of either an illusion or a Gift of Chi/Telekinesis; this can be due to a blurry picture, poor editing, poor audio, bad camera angles, etc. An example of this is when Criss Angel gets run down by a car and knocked through a wall. It may be a feat from his Gift but the video is not good enough to make that determination - which is why I didn't comment on that.


Originally posted by kinglizard
Do you determine this by what seems really impressive or by what seems impossible? Maybe you simply determine it by not knowing how it could be preformed via illusion.

That is a factor...yes.


Originally posted by kinglizard
You have said time and time again that your belief in Chris is not based on faith so I would like to know, how YOU KNOW, what is real and what is not. Because faith is not involved here you should be able to provide clear evidence or proof.

The conclusion is derived through logical analysis, experience, and intuition. None of which constitute or even come close to faith.

With the possible exception in my "faith" in my intuition which is actually trust through experience. But I don't think that is what you are looking for here. There is no blind faith behind my conclusions


I don't really like people who have a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis. They are usually spoiled by it (directly and indirectly) and they are not spiritual or principled.

And they get only worse, i.e., more corrupt, after they transition to the Other Side. This has been the case with basically all the historical prophets who had a Gift of TK (when incarnate) from a large discarnate community or large Group Entity.

Hey...I wonder if eyewitness86 and I are going to be contacted by Uri Geller and Criss Angel - or their producers - to appear on their new reality show.


I think I would just offer my services as a Metaphysical Consultant.




posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
Have those who believe in Angels "powers" bothered to search his name on youtube? He shows exactly how he levitates.

Yeah...for about two or three feet.


He NEVER explains how he does his high levitations.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by jheated5
Derren Brown wins over CA hands down!!!

Thanks for chiming in on the issue of who would win in a Chi battle.

That's one vote for DB and zero for CA.

Anyone else like to cast their vote?




posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Why is that?
Than dancing hankerchief or floating light bulb over the audience requires help when it travels over the audience from assistants to the best of my knowledge. The smaller CA version he did does not do that , therefore he doesn't need the extra help.


Originally posted by pavil
That is irrelevant.
No it's not. Blackstone was a good magician and I am sure an influence on CA.



Originally posted by Paul_Richard

You are being very vague in your explanation and don't provide us with the "how" it is done.
I am not a magician but it invovles lateral wires rather than horizontal wires for the distance moves and that is why you can "hoop" it . There are vertical wires/threads for the up close vertical effect. I know, I know .....Invisible wires that no one sees. There are there nonetheless.


Originally posted by pavil
You don't think anyone can have a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis, so this doesn't surprise me.
I am skeptical but would like to have it proven to me with a batch of testing in a controlled situation. Derek Brown does not have TK powers, why do you claim that? He is very good at what he does and blends many disciplines together into a cool presentation. If any human has real "Chi-TK" powers I am pretty sure they don't have a weekly TV series or have specials on TV. Just my opinion.


Like Criss Angel, he denies having any Gift so he can then do things that veteran magicians cannot do - outside of a specially designed stage and props - and become wealthy in the process.
Again why believe the actual performers? Of course the won't tell you the real truth about their TK, but they tell the whole complete truth about EVERYTHING ELSE. What kind of logic is that? Again you seem to be implying that CA needed a "special stage" for the Floating light bulb. That is not so for the smaller version he did. Only Blackstones full above the audiance one needs a setup theater for it. Stop blurring them together.





Because they are not people of principle; they are simply out to make a buck
.......


I'd be willing to bet that, if cornered, he will say that ALL of his feats are illusions.


What? not follwing you now. So CA and all like him will say whatever is necessary to make a buck and are not people of principle? I thought everything CA did on the show was real?



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Why is that?


Originally posted by pavil
Than dancing hankerchief or floating light bulb over the audience requires help when it travels over the audience from assistants to the best of my knowledge. The smaller CA version he did does not do that , therefore he doesn't need the extra help.

That's still too vague an answer.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
That is irrelevant.


Originally posted by pavil
No it's not. Blackstone was a good magician and I am sure an influence on CA.

You did not see Harry Blackstone Jr. doing the same feats of Criss Angel outside of a special effects stage, e.g., Criss Angel's high levitations.

He did not because he could not.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
You are being very vague in your explanation and don't provide us with the "how" it is done.


Originally posted by pavil
I am not a magician but it invovles lateral wires rather than horizontal wires for the distance moves and that is why you can "hoop" it . There are vertical wires/threads for the up close vertical effect. I know, I know .....Invisible wires that no one sees. There are there nonetheless.

At least you gave us a direct answer this time.

There is that not so little issue of the invisible wires that the camera and spectators, even the eyewitnesses who are literally inches away - like the young man at the light store - cannot see or validate


Shhh...don't tell anyone...it means the wires aren't there.



Originally posted by Paul_Richard
You don't think anyone can have a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis, so this doesn't surprise me.


Originally posted by pavil
I am skeptical but would like to have it proven to me with a batch of testing in a controlled situation. Derek Brown does not have TK powers, why do you claim that?

Because I was a trained Hypnotherapist with also telekinetic experience. I know what can be done with hypnosis and what can only be done with a Gift of the Spirit. I posted a link to Brown's touchless blow earlier in this thread. Go have a look-see.


Originally posted by pavil
He is very good at what he does and blends many disciplines together into a cool presentation. If any human has real "Chi-TK" powers I am pretty sure they don't have a weekly TV series or have specials on TV. Just my opinion.

Funny you should mention that, for Uri Geller and Criss Angel are coming out with a reality show this fall



Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Like Criss Angel, he denies having any Gift so he can then do things that veteran magicians cannot do - outside of a specially designed stage and props - and become wealthy in the process.


Originally posted by pavil
Again why believe the actual performers? Of course the won't tell you the real truth about their TK, but they tell the whole complete truth about EVERYTHING ELSE. What kind of logic is that?

The key word in this equation of deception or partial deception is...

MONEY


The pursuit of money makes people do and say all kinds of wacky things.


Originally posted by pavil
Again you seem to be implying that CA needed a "special stage" for the Floating light bulb.

Could it have something to do with the fact that at one of the reference sites you provided, one magician asked if it was a street trick and the other stated that it must be done on a special stage with paid assistants?

Nawwww.



Originally posted by pavil
That is not so for the smaller version he did.

That is only what YOU claim and that is not backed up with any of the sites you gave us.



Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Because they are not people of principle; they are simply out to make a buck


I'd be willing to bet that, if cornered, he will say that ALL of his feats are illusions.



Originally posted by pavil
What? not follwing you now. So CA and all like him will say whatever is necessary to make a buck and are not people of principle? I thought everything CA did on the show was real?

You confuse a Gift of Telekinesis with CHARACTER.

One can have one without the other.


Most who have a Gift of Chi or TK are not really spiritual people.

Never have been for that matter.

I validate that with my own experience.

You will not find a Saint - and there are some out there - who has a Gift of TK or a Gift of Chi from a large Group Entity. It doesn't happen.



[edit on 12-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by slackerwire

I live in Las Vegas and on occasion I've had the opportunity to see CA walking through the Planet Hollywood Casino (formerly the Aladdin), and his schtick is basically camera tricks and some knowledge on the part of certain audience members. There are quite a few other "CA exposed" vids on youtube, and if they are all true, they make his "powers" seem quite elementary. Angel has one thing going for him that most great illusionists have: showmanship.


It seems we may have a an eyewitness in the thread refuting the idea of "no camera tricks used by CA" Hopefully slackerwire can chime in again and share whatever experiances he might have has with CA in Vegas.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
I live in Las Vegas and on occasion I've had the opportunity to see CA walking through the Planet Hollywood Casino (formerly the Aladdin), and his schtick is basically camera tricks and some knowledge on the part of certain audience members. There are quite a few other "CA exposed" vids on youtube, and if they are all true, they make his "powers" seem quite elementary. Angel has one thing going for him that most great illusionists have: showmanship.


Originally posted by InSpiteOf
It seems we may have a an eyewitness in the thread refuting the idea of "no camera tricks used by CA" Hopefully slackerwire can chime in again and share whatever experiances he might have has with CA in Vegas.

Eyewitnesses are always a good resource.

However, in not being part of Criss Angel's camera crew or an employee of the Planet Hollywood Casino (or the Luxor Hotel for that matter), at least some of his testimony - specifically the "camera tricks" - smacks more of speculation than of an actual eyewitness account.

We must remember that eyewitness86 has already provided us with testimony from an employee of the Luxor Hotel who said that there were no alterations made which enabled Criss Angel to perform his levitations inside the atrium and over the Luxor pyramid.

Now if we could just get the testimony from one of his camera crew


A hotel employee or an insider in Criss Angel's crew constitute the most credible of witnesses.

Also, if someone came forward and stated in here that they were paid off to lie on film about what they saw in one of Criss Angel's performances (and they identified which video they appear in and can verify their participation), that would constitute a major victory for the camp that contends CA has no Gift of Telekinesis-Chi. But I don't see that happening.

I wish we could get all of them in here, along with 1 True Criss Angel Fan, and have them answer some very direct questions.




posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard


However, in not being part of Criss Angel's camera crew or an employee of the Planet Hollywood Casino (or the Luxor Hotel for that matter), at least some of his testimony - specifically the "camera tricks" - smacks more of speculation than of an actual eyewitness account.


Very true and I agree, with the exception of the speculation. Having seen CA do some of his "magic" firsthand, I can state that I have seen cameras move to certain places which just don't seem to make for the best camera angles, so one would have to wonder why they are shooting from a less than ideal spot.


We must remember that eyewitness86 has already provided us with testimony from an employee of the Luxor Hotel who said that there were no alterations made which enabled Criss Angel to perform his levitations inside the atrium and over the Luxor pyramid.


I'm new to ATS and haven't seen that testimony so please forgive my lack of knowledge on that post. Did the employee provide proof of employment at the Luxor?




Also, if someone came forward and stated in here that they were paid off to lie on film about what they saw in one of Criss Angel's performances (and they identified which video they appear in and can verify their participation), that would constitute a major victory for the camp that contends CA has no Gift of Telekinesis-Chi. But I don't see that happening.


What if there is a confidentiality clause in their media release forms? Given the nature of the business, I suspect such a clause would be first and foremost.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
However, in not being part of Criss Angel's camera crew or an employee of the Planet Hollywood Casino (or the Luxor Hotel for that matter), at least some of his testimony - specifically the "camera tricks" - smacks more of speculation than of an actual eyewitness account.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Very true and I agree, with the exception of the speculation. Having seen CA do some of his "magic" firsthand, I can state that I have seen cameras move to certain places which just don't seem to make for the best camera angles, so one would have to wonder why they are shooting from a less than ideal spot.

Bad photography doesn't necessarily mean camera tricks and/or editing.

Hey...would it be possible for you to discreetly film him on your own sometime when he is doing a levitation of himself and/or someone else?

That would be very helpful.


Maybe you should go with a couple of other people (who are in fairly good shape) to serve as look-outs and who could warn you to move quickly when needed, so that your video recorder doesn't get trashed.

Criss Angel contends that various people have filmed him independently and that what the audience sees is exactly what the camera captures. If they do trash your camera, that in itself would say a lot.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
We must remember that eyewitness86 has already provided us with testimony from an employee of the Luxor Hotel who said that there were no alterations made which enabled Criss Angel to perform his levitations inside the atrium and over the Luxor pyramid.


Originally posted by slackerwire
I'm new to ATS and haven't seen that testimony so please forgive my lack of knowledge on that post. Did the employee provide proof of employment at the Luxor?

This was addressed earlier in the thread. The full legal name was given. Eyewitness86 has all the details - including the verifying telephone number.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Also, if someone came forward and stated in here that they were paid off to lie on film about what they saw in one of Criss Angel's performances (and they identified which video they appear in and can verify their participation), that would constitute a major victory for the camp that contends CA has no Gift of Telekinesis-Chi. But I don't see that happening.


Originally posted by slackerwire
What if there is a confidentiality clause in their media release forms? Given the nature of the business, I suspect such a clause would be first and foremost.

That has also been discussed.

Perhaps they could do so anonymously, without making a direct reference to what video they appear in. The drawback is that it doesn't provide credible testimony.

I think that independently filming Criss Angel in action is the best course of action




[edit on 13-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]




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