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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by JohnDoe43
We Should all be able to agree that Criss Angel uses fake witnesses.

Bring them on by


Many in here would love to ask them some questions and see how they match up to 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan's testimony.



Originally posted by JohnDoe43
Even if thats not how the trick is done, the guy who goes in the room with Criss would have to know what happened, and he still came out shocked...
That alone should be enough to question every other trick Criss Angel performs in front of other people.

As I stated before, just because someone works with Criss Angel, including family members, doesn't necessary mean they know how he does a particular feat. They may be as clueless as most in the audience.


Originally posted by JohnDoe43
We should also be able to agree that if there is ever any clear proof at all that Criss Angel uses camera and editing tricks in any one of his tricks/stunts like the videos above imply, then he is a liar and a fake.

Criss Angel says that he doesn't use editing or camera tricks. That what we see in a video of him is what the live audience sees. If he does use camera and editing tricks, then yes of course he is a liar in that regard.

Coincidentally, there is a possibility that I caught CA in a lie in one of his feat explanations. It was in regard to one of the teleportations. He explained it away as a simple illusion but the video record points to a different scenario. One must also be aware that he may try to intentionally mislead the public by giving a really bad illusion explanation when the reality is it was performed with his Gift. But I will let that one go for now. It will pop up again eventually anyway.

Hey, my analysis turned out to be correct about the amputee illusion (pulling a woman in half) and I figure that I am probably right about this teleportation feat as well not being an illusion as he says it is.

We want testimonials from people who saw Criss Angel float 500 feet in the air - over the Luxor Hotel in Las Vegas. Or when he flew around a golf course. Or when he "walked on water" in a pool.

That kind of anecdotal evidence is what we need to address and analyze in depth.

He says that a lot of what he does is REAL and that he wants the audience to decide for themselves.

Well, that is exactly what we have done and will continue to do.




[edit on 20-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]




posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
so - it begs the question - how did you arrive at the conclusion that he is leviating above the water ?

the evidence of the vid does not support that conclusion - does angel make the claim himself - if so where ?

where do your beliefs on this topic origionate ?


Try a spell check sometime.

No, he does not make that claim.

Watch his feet carefully. His body weight is not being supported by the water but by a small cushion of air just above the water line.

Thank you for your response.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
The high levitations that PaulRichard points out as well as the water events and many others. Those are the issues that the naysayers cannot and will not address in a convincing manner.

Hmmm. I wonder if Uri Geller would comment on that.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
By the way, 'confidentiality agreements' are worth no more than the paper they are written on.

So true.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
People violate agreements all the time and if one does the only thing that the aggrieved party can do is sue in court. Ever heard of Criss suing someone for violating an agreement? Why not? You mean to tell us that not ONE person amongst possible thousands of eyewitnesses to his events would not have come forward and gotten his or her 15 minutes of fame and maybe some money..whatever. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a rational person to believe that legions of people would remain silent forever, it is beyond the pale. More likely that what you see is really happening!! Too hard to grasp?

Good logical analysis EW86.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
There is NO evidence of any supports, and swimmers swim all around and THROUGH the entire area where Criss walks.

Quite so.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
Drips might appear a little different when the forces that are being used to keep Criss from sinking affect the surface of the water at the area of his feet. Does that make sense? Is THAT too radical a physical possibility given the premise? Hopefully not; and if you do see the obvious, then you must admit that the dripping that you see is not evidence in and of itself of a prop, but of the force applied to the area to affect the desired result, ie.: the walking on water by Criss. Simple. You merely misunderstood the nature of the phenomenon and mistranslated what you were seeing. Could happen to anyone not looking for the esoteric possibilities as a normal part of the scientific inquiry, which excludes NOTHING in it's quest for truth.

It is very hard for most people to entertain a metaphysical conclusion.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
So here we are PR, still atop Everest and watching for that magic helicopter to swoop down and bring us news of the latest feeble attempts at denying the obvious!! By the way, did you see the one where Criss jumps into the puddle that kids are playing in? It is great; the parents are freaked out and search the puddle, 3 inches deep max, and all the while after jumping in and disappearing from view, with water covering his head, he is sitting up on a third floor ledge above them watching the people below freak out!! Super.

You know, that video doesn't come to mind. I think I may have saw it briefly a while back. Perhaps you can include a link to it sometime. Sounds like a keeper. Thanks.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
Oh crap, I can hear it now..He must have switched puddles, all the kids and parents are paid actors who really act convincingly and remain forever silent, it is all camera tricks, blah blah, blah..God I wish we would get an intelligent challenge for a change.

The way things are going EW86, a spokesman for Criss Angel will soon be here to refute our conclusions that he has more going for him than camera tricks, sleight-of-hand, and paid-off spectators.




[edit on 20-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

No, he does not make that claim.


so why do you clsim that he is levitating ?




Watch his feet carefully. His body weight is not being supported by the water but by a small cushion of air just above the water line.


so why do his feet dip into the water with every step ?

and why does each step leave a trail of droplets ?

visible here : there is water running off his shoe



there is no " cushion of air "

you are just making it up as you go

his feet clearly enter the water then the excess runs off as his foot rises

PS - if he really is levitating - why does he need to "walk" ?



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 05:39 PM
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just a thought on the whole walking on water bit...could there be a pane(s) of glass where he walks? that is held up by clear supports? Is this not possible and would this not explain his foot dipping into the water?



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
so why do you clsim that he is levitating ?

I and others in this thread, through observation, experience, eyewitness testimony, and critical analysis, have concluded that he performs some illusion but that he also has a Gift of Telekinesis which he uses to perform his high levitations, changing water to beer, walking on water, etc.


Originally posted by ignorant_ape
so why do his feet dip into the water with every step ?

Because he does that intentionally.


Originally posted by ignorant_ape
and why does each step leave a trail of droplets ?

Because water tends to do that.



Originally posted by ignorant_ape
there is no " cushion of air "

What would you call it then?


Originally posted by ignorant_ape
his feet clearly enter the water then the excess runs off as his foot rises

Which is his intention.


Originally posted by ignorant_ape
PS - if he really is levitating - why does he need to "walk" ?

He doesn't but chooses to do so.

Now tell us YOUR explanation.




posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
just a thought on the whole walking on water bit...could there be a pane(s) of glass where he walks? that is held up by clear supports? Is this not possible and would this not explain his foot dipping into the water?

His foot dips into the water because his feet and body are not being supported by the water


It is like if you were being held up and moved by an unseen force but decided to move your legs as if to run. The legs themselves would have nothing to do with the movement of "running" but it provides the illusion that the legs are doing it, which they are not.

Technically, Criss Angel floated above the water and moved his legs and feet as if he were walking on it.

That is also why water drips down from him and why he can let a shoe go and have it sink to the bottom.

His contact with the water had nothing to do with him being above it.

That is what I meant by the "cushion of air."





posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by AceWombat04
He has demonstrated how he performs some of his illusions, and has never claimed to possess supernatural powers.

Although he avoids directly saying that he has a Gift of Telekinesis, he has said publicly that a lot of what he does is REAL and that he leaves it up to the audience to decide.

He says so in this interview on FOX News with John Gibson.

If you did some research on him you would know that.


Try again.


"Try again?" I think you misunderstood me.

I'm not arguing with you or anyone else with regard to your or their views with regard to his performances and/or abilities. I said that he has demonstrated how he performs some of his illusions, and that he has never claimed to possess supernatural abilities. I didn't say he has denied possessing them, or that all of his performances are necessarily illusions. Your statement, in my opinion, implies that some of his performances are illusions (while also accepting the possibility that some of it is real,) and you stated that he has never openly said he has telekinetic abilities. Your statement and mine are not in conflict or mutually exclusive. I keep an open mind. He may possess telekinetic abilities, and he may not. I never said he didn't.

The reason I posted was because I see so many people complaining that his performances are "fake." If his act is "fake," it simply means he is an illusionist and a magician, which in no way makes him deceitful or a charlatan in my opinion. It would simply mean that illusions are his art form or craft. If they are not "fake," then he certainly does not deserve criticism or accusations of deception in that case, either. Either way, I was just trying to express my personal opinion that he is not deserving of the ridicule or accusations of deception I see leveled against him regularly.

I never seek to argue with or antagonize anyone, and I respect the views of those who disagree with me.

(edited for clarification)

[edit on 7/20/2007 by AceWombat04]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by AceWombat04
I'm not arguing with you or anyone else with regard to your or their views with regard to his performances and/or abilities. I said that he has demonstrated how he performs some of his illusions, and that he has never claimed to possess supernatural abilities. I didn't say he has denied possessing them, or that all of his performances are necessarily illusions. Your statement, in my opinion, implies that some of his performances are illusions (while also accepting the possibility that some of it is real,) and you stated that he has never openly said he has telekinetic abilities. Your statement and mine are not in conflict or mutually exclusive. I keep an open mind. He may possess telekinetic abilities, and he may not. I never said he didn't.

Fair enough.



Originally posted by AceWombat04
The reason I posted was because I see so many people complaining that his performances are "fake." If his act is "fake," it simply means he is an illusionist and a magician, which in no way makes him deceitful or a charlatan in my opinion. It would simply mean that illusions are his art form or craft. If they are not "fake," then he certainly does not deserve criticism or accusations of deception in that case, either. Either way, I was just trying to express my personal opinion that he is not deserving of the ridicule or accusations of deception I see leveled against him regularly.

I see your point.

Criss Angel is now more successful and has more time on television than any magician or illusionist in history, and his Mindfreak DVD is a bestseller. I think that many people are simply jealous of his fortune, his popularity, his now legendary status, his Gifts, that he dates beautiful models and actresses, and this is why they scoff and ridicule him.


Originally posted by AceWombat04
I never seek to argue with or antagonize anyone, and I respect the views of those who disagree with me.

A meritorious comment





posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 10:32 AM
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It is all too clear, really. There are those that CANNOT comprehend the reality they are seeing, and so refuse to accept it no matter what. If Criss knocked on their door and stepped into their living rooms and disappeared right in front of their eyes, they would think they were hallucinating or had gone mad. They would accuse someone of spiking their drink with drugs, they would check into a psychiatric facility, ANYTHING but accept the obvious. those in denial CAN never accept that which would undermine their entire emotional and intellectual support structure and thus render them vulnerable and unsure of reality itself.

The depths of denial cannot be over emphasized; it is the human being's escape mechanism for things that would overwhelm the sense and mind to the degree that would leave the person unable to function. It is a self preservation mechanism and inherent in those who have not expanded their capabilities of insightful and comparative analysis to the degre that would allow for acceptance.

There are NO panes of glass in the pool, there are no columns or supports in the pool, and the myriad of witnesses are NOT paid shills loyal to the death to a Las Vegas performer. No, what happened was that Criss used his abilites to defy gravity, or perhaps accomodate gravity in a variant of the usual way it applies to the physical realm, and all the proof of such is embedded in the memories of the witnesses, the video's of the same, and the testimony of hundreds of people who have witnesses first hand the stunning feats that can be seen when the blinders are taken off of human potential and the mind is allowed to open up and believe what is really there.

By the way, I am no exoert at getting video's on here but here is the URL for the Puddle Jump video. It is really a great one and I hope you enjoy it PR. We will keep trying and holding the high ground until we either run the morons off or enlighten them a bit. Better that than having the readers believe that this community is beyond abilities that include critical judgement and rational explanations for the evidence presented.

[exwww.youtube.com.../ex]

Let me know what you think of this one and I will try and find a few more greats to see. My best advice to those who still cling to the old paradigm is this: Remember the plaque above the door at the Oracles apartment in the Matrix? It said " Know thyself " and no better advice could be given to those who refuse to believe the truth; find out WHO and WHAT you are before judging and assuming, it will make the journey a lot easier and a lot more interesting!!



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
By the way, I am no exoert at getting video's on here but here is the URL for the Puddle Jump video. It is really a great one and I hope you enjoy it PR. We will keep trying and holding the high ground until we either run the morons off or enlighten them a bit. Better that than having the readers believe that this community is beyond abilities that include critical judgement and rational explanations for the evidence presented.

[exwww.youtube.com.../ex]


here is the video you asked for eyewitness86, if you hit the quote button in this post you will see the BB code, just copy everything to the right of the = sign of the YouTube url and paste it in between the BB code. I do it manually, or just press the Youtube/Google Video link and paste it there.

'That video is amazing to say the lest what ever he does he is good at it


Criss Angel Puddle Magic Trick




[edit on 21/7/2007 by Sauron]



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 11:48 AM
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Thank you EW86 for that video link and thanks also to Sauron for explaining a technicality in uploading videos in a thread.

It appears to be one of Criss Angel's older videos; when he was still into the Gothic look. I would like to see him do that again but with better picture resolution.

What are those four or five small white objects which immediately pop up after CA jumps into the puddle?

It is indeed an impressive demonstration but I am a little hesitant to state that it is an example of telekinesis because of the poor video quality.


Perhaps CA has done something like this more recently.

If it is valid, then it is a form of teleportation called phasing as opposed to beaming.

To answer the obvious questions ahead of time...

Phasing is when the body and soul is teleported all at once. Years ago, Uri Geller claimed to experience this.

Beaming is when the body is first broken down telekinetically and then re-assembled elsewhere. This process requires much more energy in The Light and the re-assembly aspect is tantamount to creating the matter in the first place


For time immemorial, Group Entities have done phasing teleportation through and around their prophets, wizards, sorcerers, etc., and it is usually with small objects. David Blaine has done this as well as Criss Angel.

However, as a rule, large Group Entities - even those who have millions of members - do not have the energy level in The Light to create a fully-grown humanoid body. Which is why a prophet from the past - like Jesus/Issa - has never come back from the dead and proved it by their physical presence on international television. And once Sai Baba of India transitions, he wont' be able to come back in a fully grown body either.

Consequently, you will not see Criss Angel beaming around, only phasing.

One never knows what metaphysical insight one will pick up in ATS.




[edit on 21-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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I am not sure about the objects, they look to me almost like some palying cards he may have had in a pocket and lost when he jumped in, otherwise it could have been trash ,etc., that had settled to the bottom of the puddle and were not apparent until he breached the surface with force.

In any event, it WOULD be great to see it again, with better film. I just thought it was cool. And THANK YOU Sauron for the advice; I will do that next time, much appreciated.

If one goes to YouTube and just watches Criss video's for a while, it becomes very easy to immediately pick out the illusions versus the telekenetic events. The sad fact is that many people just cannot see the possibility of the telek. choice at all and when stumped at that point resort to denial and silly side issues.The fact that they cannot come up with rational alternatives does not mean anything to them; unlike a seasoned debater, who would be embarrassed to be caught with no better alternatives than the one's they are refuting!!

Some of the posters are aware of kintetics but unaware of human potential re: above natural phoenomenon. Or some just cannot see Criss as being an adept no matter WHAT he does; the man can't be asked to do much more to prove he has special abilities, now can he? He levitates well above the ground in open spaces and plain view with multiple witnesses, he changes substances and causes materials to change consistency and alter their locations, he swallows a coin and while the camera rolls unstopped, he opens his shirt and shows the coin UNDER the skin moving along and down his arm, all fully observable, with live witnesses, until he takes a knife, cuts his flesh open, and pulls out the coin, which had been signed by a witness and was the original which came from his wound,

What more does a person have to do to convince the skeptical? Would ANYTHING convince them ? One never knows, but it is a sad commentary on the evolution of mankinds spiritual and intellectual progress, at the least. Hopefully many more will come to see the truth and open up their minds.



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 05:29 PM
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EW86,

As always, good rationale analysis


There is also the sociological impact to consider. Years from now, will this "illusionist" or "mindfreak" be the central figure in a new religious movement?

With no one currently in sight that even comes close to duplicating his Gifts, where will this lead?




posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 12:13 PM
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A fascinating point PR!! I had not thought about that but it is a very good question.

Already we see some who compare Criss To Jesus or say he is the herald of some new religious awareness, etc. I imagine that the biggest influence that Criss and others will have is to open up the minds of the people who are aware enough to begin with to see that there are no mundane explanations for SOME of the events we see. that opening up may well portend a new paradigm being discussed, at least, and that is the first step for many, so bring it on!!

The more thinking and enlightened people we have the better; we can see how shallow and vapid the excuses of the naysayers are, how utterly lacking in definable evidence to the contrary view, so as long as that mindset preavils, it will be a trickle and not the flood we would naturally hope for. the break through, the conscience explosion that would signal the advent of an age where the assumption would be to the sublime and not the coarse as a matter of course!!

No doubt there are many young people, and perhaps older ones as well, who are so intrigued by the events they see that they shift their sights just a bit toward the unacknowledged and then the blinders will fall off and reality will be seen for what it is, and not what the blind -leading - the - blind would prefer, which is continued ignorance and suppression of the spiritual realm and the powers it holds for everone that can grasp and appreciate the reality that awaits the person who sees with not only the physical eyes but with his inner senses as well.

I just hope that Criss discourages people from seeing him as some avatar; so far he has never encouraged such beliefs, to his credit, and I am sure he is humble enough to not make claims that are beyond the realm of truth. Sure, there are always groupies that adore anyone famous or ' cool ', but they make bad disciples as the next fad will drag them away and make them ' believers ' of some other new phenomenon.

Great point, PR, and cause for much thinking..it will be interesting to see how many people attribute the abilites solely to Criss and not the ' unseen forces ', and how many see the reality underlying the acts for what they are. I am going to try and link another video soon, a disappearance ( change of location for his body ) that looks really amazing. I guess it's just you and me until someone with a real chance at proving us all wrong comes along and gives it a try; maybe word is getting out that nonsense and obfuscation will not be allowed to reign!! If so wonderful, we can cut down the the replies to the realy foolish ones. More soon.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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Hi EW86,

Good post.


Be sure to also check out all the links on my Great Reference Links pages, like the one by my signature below. If that one is not working, just go to TheSocietyOfLight.com for access to all the mirror pages.

Namasté

[edit on 22-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 02:21 PM
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I saw Criss Angel on Larry King one night about a week ago.

Just as the show was about to break for a commercial Criss Angel 's last words were :Maybe I'm not human"!!

I nearly fell out of my chair.........
I think that alot of what he does are allusions but I also think that he has special Gifts that he uses.

If some of what he does is real....then maybe he is here for a purpose.
Now the question is, for what purpose?

Who is Criss Angel?

Is he from Earth?

If not, what is is purpose for being here?



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by MagicaRose
I saw Criss Angel on Larry King one night about a week ago.

Just as the show was about to break for a commercial Criss Angel 's last words were: "Maybe I'm not human"!!

I nearly fell out of my chair.........

Thank you for bringing that point to our attention.



Originally posted by MagicaRose
I think that alot of what he does are illusions but I also think that he has special Gifts that he uses.

If some of what he does is real....then maybe he is here for a purpose.
Now the question is, for what purpose?

It is a logical extrapolation that the Gifts he is given from his discarnate community is - at least in part - to further the purpose which was devised by him and his clan before his birth.


Originally posted by MagicaRose
Who is Criss Angel?

Is he from Earth?

If not, what is is purpose for being here?

Once again, we are back to the sociological issue of what he is becoming to many people and what role he will eventually play.

He doesn't come across as saintly but he has a lot of power given to him. This in turn led to his wealth and popularity. Which goes to show that one does not have to be a very spiritual person in order to have a telekinetic Gift.

It is a little eerie when you think about it...

People who are not saintly having powerful Gifts.

Just like Sai Baba.




posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 07:22 AM
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NBC has announced that Uri Geller and Criss Angel (Mindfreak) will be appearing in a new TV reality show called “Phenomenon” (working title) this fall.

News Source

Another ATS thread that is discussing it.



[edit on 23-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 11:02 AM
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By the way, PR, the Reference links you provide are a wealth of information and really great!! I am reading quite a bit of the things you recommend and am learning a lot already, comprehending things better with more knowledge, thank you.

I strongly recommend that all of the people with an interest in this go to the links that PaulRichard provides in his posts and read for a while. There are many links to Criss events and also many other examples of phenom's that are beyond the mundane in their essence.

I just am staggered at how dull the wits are of so many people; a telling reminder of how little the public is taught about the esoteric subjects, etc. To hear some of the naysayers, this is all explainable by trickery, but they admit that their perceptive abilities are so dulled that they simply cannot imagine how it is done; they resort to the worst kind of denial to suipport a belief that this is all somehow just an ' illusion ' even as they scratch their heads and wonder HOW it could possibly be so.

Limited imagination, limited critical thinking and analyzing capabilites, and a desire to explain away anything seen by ordinary means no matter what. It is FEAR above all; FEAR that their paradigms will be shattered, FEAR that they will not be able to handle the truth emotionally and intellectually, FEAR. And FEAR is a BAD thing to be beholden to when trying to comprehend esoteric material and subjects; it ruins the chance to learn and grow, but it does provide some comfort to those challenged by things that are beyond their understanding.

Who knows, maybe someday people will be able to see an event like those Criss and David and Cyril perform and not automatically believe that it must be a stunt or hoax or illusion, but rather to recognize the true events from the stunts and know instinctively which are which. That would be a great thing as it would indicate that many more people are open and willing to accept the premises rather than denial at all costs.

Thanks again for the work on the links and I will keep reading and learning; unlike some, I am open to new horizons and not blinded by the radical doubt that has captured so many people; people who would be really changed for the better by new understandings but whose fear keeps them from any new realizations. Maybe the massive evidence and proofs will sway the doubters and legions of people will come to a higher understanding as a result, I hope so.



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