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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 03:23 PM
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Paid Actors + Camera Tricks = Street Magic.


Seriously folks, its a "SHOW" cmon now.




posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 04:57 PM
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Too bad that your thoughts are random and not specific. You make that statement even though you cannot give ANY evidence of such or any rational reason why it must be so. C'mon, can't you see the obvious?

Throwing out nonsensical things like that is akin to someone saying: " I know the truth but sadly I am unable to explain it in a way that makes any sense or is backed up by evidence or even personal observations." NO, you just spit out words that have NO vaility whatsoever. You plainly have NOT read all that has been said here or you would be ashamed to make such a silly statement.

How do you KNOW that it is all camera's and angles, etc? How? Experience? Personal insider info? Many hours spent watching video's? No, just an opinion thrown out like the garbage is thrown, strewn along the clean path to soil it and deface it without cause. It will not work. your reply is vacant, invalid and shallow. Try again; better yet, please don't. If this is the level of your knowledge in this area, we are better off not hearing any more of your ' profound ' pronouncements.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:26 PM
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No wonder so many people give up on this thread, you foam at the mouth with every post, desperatly trying to protect your views.


Originally posted by eyewitness86
Umm, in case it slipped by you, there is no stage on the Criss levitations at issue. There is only OPEN SKY and THAT is what confounds the naysayers; they cannot come up with an ' invisible helicopter ' to hang the ' invisible strings ' from that you ' heard about ' somewhere ot other, right? THIS is the essence of your rebuttal?


Because of the length of this thread, i havent looked at all your posts. Have you seen Criss levitate across 2 buldings with nothing but open sky above him? If not, then all you have seen is what the camera is showing you. How can you testify that there is no such aparatus?

Secondly, your right, i did hear about these ropes, ive also seen them attached to ESSM actuators we have shipped to missle batteries. Not only are they great in space, but they're also great for transport cables of expensive equipment.


There is NO DOUBT that there exists such things as wires that are very thin and yet very strong; but there has never been shown anything that the strings or wires can hang from!! THAT is where the rubber meets the road in this issue.You either must be asserting that some unknown and unseen force or apparatus is in the sky above the crowds and buildings, OR you are asserting that all of the apparent evidence, eye witnesses, video, etc, are staged or manipulated or edited and vast crowds of people are being bought off and stay silent. There is NO OTHER choice according to your view.

Really? well thats contrary to what you said previously. Oh well, at least you admitted to it.

2) i never said that is the ONLY explanation, its simply the explanation I believe to be true. Oh and what is this emperical evidence that shows Criss has some abilities outside of the Norm?



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by RandomThought
Paid Actors + Camera Tricks = Street Magic.

Seriously folks, its a "SHOW" cmon now.

The more informed appraisal...

No paid actors + some illusions + a Gift of Telekinesis for the more difficult feats like levitation high in the air = Criss Angel's Street Magick.

Note the difference between the word magick which means telekinesis, versus magic which means sleight-of-hand, misdirection, and electronic-stage illusion.

Seriously.




posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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They will NEVER answer the questions, will they? It is the same old same old. getting tiresome. The reason I ' foam at the mouth ' which is what you call an approach that tolerates no silly nonsense, is that you and others MUST be held with your feet to the fire because you will wiggle and squirm and finagle around the issue unless we make you face the music: The main points, the main issues, the only facts that make a real diference.

Instead, what do I hear? You saw some ropes for a missle battery, and these ropes are just perfect for dangling from invisible helicopters, right? It does not matter is a one millionth of an inch rope would hold up an elephant, there must be something above holding it up!! Understand?

YOU will not frame the issue, the people with the high ground will do so. Why should the people with no evidence, no proof, no better answers let the subject get highjacked into some ' illusion is impossible to comprehend ' mode as WE are not at that level of comprehension. You need a remedial course in debate, logic, application of evidence and refuting obvious foolishness.

You have been led down the primrose path of complacence and are willing to put your critical facilities on hold and simply parrot the inane ramblings of the crowd that simply cannot conceive of anything that seems impossible to them. there is an intellectual block; it is common, and not to be ashamed of, but please recognize that it is embarrasingly apparent to all of us who see beyond the 3 dimensions that you have been enclosed in and captive in for your entire life.

Arguments that have no backbone, no substance, are easy to spot and laughingly easy to dismiss. Unless you all can stretch your tiny imaginations just a wee bit and consider the possibility that the forces of gravity and light and time and perception can be altered or affected by the human being who is dedicated to such and BELIEVES in such, then you really are not prepared at all to delve into this at all. It only gets deeper so if you cannot crawl out of the ditch you are laying in, how could you possibly expect to escape the bottomless hole that awaits you in the further realms of the unseen new paradigms

Until you naysayers get through with Kinetic Energies 101, you had better let the big boys play this game and sit on the bench until you understand the rules a little better, eh? That is as kindly as I can say it.
Blindness is only a handicap when a person refuses to take off the blindfold; if one never reaches up and tugs, one will never be enlightened. It takes affirmative action to comprehend past the mundane and so few in this world are ready to dig in and see the truth.

NO ONE has met the challenge and presented valid and possible reasons for Criss Angels abilites in SOME events. there are no SKY HOOKS, there are no legions of ' paid actors who remain silent forever " , there are no editors sitting in a cutting room tricking the film so it looks like a real event; otherwise the live shows would never be possible, right? You know, the LIVE shows, where people are universally astounded and CANNOT reason away what he does with ' must be an illusion ' like some farmer coming into the city for his once a year trip for supplies, simple and dumb and ready to believe the thing that challenges his intellect the least.

THAT is the KEY, really. It challenges the intellect of those who are not up to the challenge!!! In a nutshell, that is why we get posts like " Its a an illusions, see? Simple". Real in depth and detailed, aren't they? Amazing.

Oh well, we really should be more kind to them and understanding; we were all at that stage at some point in our lives, I got out of mine when I was about 15, and since then, in the last 40 years,I have been able to comprehend a lot of things that I would not have been able to if I had not broken the ice and accepted that there is things that we cannot explain with our logic and our reason and our minds; things that transcend the obvious. until one can at LEAST accept that premise, there is no hope of them being able to contribute.

When you all that doubt without reason and deny the evidence decide that you have graduated from the mundane school of meta-physical possibilties, step back in and share your enlightenment with us, it would be a resfreshing change and most welcome!! See you soon I hope!! Bon Voyage!! Ariva' derce' , dos vedanya, Bon Jour, learn a lot!! Have fun!!



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Tell us all about what exactly the invisible wires hang from? OK? Thank You. I am interested in hearing the answers that make sense and are believable given the current evidence. Have at it! We are waiting, and waiting, and.....


An invisible puppet-master in the sky, perhaps?



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 01:53 AM
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He has demonstrated how he performs some of his illusions, and has never claimed to possess supernatural powers. He doesn't appear to be trying to deceive anyone beyond visual deception for the sake of carrying out his performance. He's an illusionist. His job is to impress, confound, mystify, and entertain. There is a reason they are called magic tricks. Why does it matter that his feats aren't necessarily "real?" Santa isn't real either, but my childhood would have felt a lot less magical if I had known that at an earlier age than I did. Why not simply allow ourselves to be entertained? Sometimes the suspension of disbelief can be a good thing.

(edited for spelling)

[edit on 7/20/2007 by AceWombat04]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 03:07 AM
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He has a flap in his pants, he puts his leg out, goes up there on one leg then puts it back in his pants.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 04:34 AM
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I laugh at anyone who still thinks his stuff is actually real. It's a freaking TV show people.

He uses a lot of camera tricks and in a lot of the early Mindfreak shows you could easily see the bad editing cuts that were done. They still aren't cut very good even in the newer shows.

Also, a lot of the tricks he does are suprisingly simple to do. It's those tricks that are usually the best ones. The trick he's done where he refills an empty beer/soda can is soo simple it's unreal


@ eyewitness86's post above:

Next time you want to try coming off as "highly intelligent" or "he who knows all", make sure you know how to spell all the big words you tried using to create the illusion that you're intelligent.

Make that happen and that will be a huge feat. You're rant was way over the top. Looked more like a cry for attention in all honesty. You proved nothing with that rant of yours. Nice try though.


[edit on 20-7-2007 by nightmare_david]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by AceWombat04
He has demonstrated how he performs some of his illusions, and has never claimed to possess supernatural powers.

Although he avoids directly saying that he has a Gift of Telekinesis, he has said publicly that a lot of what he does is REAL and that he leaves it up to the audience to decide.

He says so in this interview on FOX News with John Gibson.

If you did some research on him you would know that.


Try again.



Originally posted by manix
He has a flap in his pants, he puts his leg out, goes up there on one leg then puts it back in his pants.

That is one of the illusions he performs but it does not explain his high levitations and teleportations.


Try again.



Originally posted by nightmare_david
He uses a lot of camera tricks and in a lot of the early Mindfreak shows you could easily see the bad editing cuts that were done. They still aren't cut very good even in the newer shows.

Also, a lot of the tricks he does are suprisingly simple to do. It's those tricks that are usually the best ones. The trick he's done where he refills an empty beer/soda can is soo simple it's unreal.

That reanimation and refilling of an empty beer can was performed not by Criss Angel but by David Blaine. You are probably confusing the two from a lack of investigation.

However, Criss Angel has changed water to beer.

It should also be noted that Criss Angel's Gift of Telekinesis is more powerful than that of David Blaine. Which is why you don't see the latter duplicating Angel's high levitations. I am sure that Angel's Gift being more powerful is a constant source of frustration for David Blaine and others in the industry.

Criss Angel has said publicly a number of times that what the camera sees is EXACTLY what the audience sees, and that he does not use camera tricks.


So let's assume for a moment that he is simply lying about that.

Explain to us why none of the hundreds - if not thousands - of spectators in his Mindfreak episodes have come forward to tell us that they were paid off to be part of his deception. And it doesn't make sense that ALL those people could be bought off. He would not be able to make any money off his show if he went that route.


Your theory simply doesn't wash.


Try again.


Those who side with the camp that Criss Angel performs illusions while also occasionally using a Gift of Telekinesis - as in his walking on water (actually levitating above it) and high levitations - are still waiting for the skeptics to provide a cogent argument IN DETAIL as to how he accomplishes these feats of magick.

Thank you.



[edit on 20-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 07:30 AM
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You assume so much in your posts. You assume that because I dont believe that Criss Angel is using some gift, that I could not possibly accept that there are forces above current human understanding.

Throughout your post, you quip at me because I do not believe what you do. Thats fine, enjoy your "moral high ground", its all mental masturbation as far as Im concerned.

I have been involved with my own form of shamanism, including the use of Ayahusaca and other spiritual guides. I've done the best I can with the tools I've found, in both inner space and outer. Do I believe that Criss Angel could have some abilities, sure. But do i believe Criss Angel is using the forces of the spirit for personal gain? Hell no.



Originally posted by eyewitness86
They will NEVER answer the questions, will they? It is the same old same old. getting tiresome. The reason I ' foam at the mouth ' which is what you call an approach that tolerates no silly nonsense, is that you and others MUST be held with your feet to the fire because you will wiggle and squirm and finagle around the issue unless we make you face the music: The main points, the main issues, the only facts that make a real diference.


How about you answer my question? Have you ever seen Criss Angel do this spectacular high rise levitation? As i said, if you havent, than all your basing your decisions on is what the camera is showing.

Just because I dont have all the answers doesnt mean Criss Angel is envoking powers beyond normal human abilities. When someone comes along years from now and proves Mr. Angel is just a magician, what will you do then?

[edit on 20-7-2007 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Explain to us why none of the hundreds - if not thousands - of spectators in his Mindfreak episodes have come forward to tell us that they were paid off to be part of his deception. And it doesn't make sense that ALL those people could be bought off. He would not be able to make any money off his show if he went that route.



Oh im sure some of the people around him in those episodes are legitimate audience members, but id say the ones that stand in a position to see the truth of the trick, are paid off. And once again, both of you have ignored the possibility of a confidentiality agreement Who the hell is going to risk being sued for breech of contract just to expose Criss Angel? No one, and thats a perfectly understandable reason why no one has come forward.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Do I believe that Criss Angel could have some abilities, sure.

Now that's a surprise


I am pleased to see a glimmer of light through a crack in the wall.


Originally posted by InSpiteOf
But do i believe Criss Angel is using the forces of the spirit for personal gain? Hell no.

We have to 'agree to disagree' on this one. As others have stated or implied in this tread (in both camps) Criss Angel is indeed using his "abilities" for personal gain. Along with Uri Geller and David Blaine, Criss Angel has become independently wealthy because of his Gifts of the Spirit.

Are you in the crowd of people who believe that Criss Angel is the reincarnation of Jesus?

Since you are mystically inclined, you should learn to avoid the yellow and violet energies of the typical Spirit Guides and try channeling the discarnate Saints of the sky blue and white spectrum of energies, i.e., those on the sixth and seventh planes. Then you will get confirmations that Criss Angel channels a large Group Entity that consists of thousands of "yellow angels" in a discarnate community on the fourth plane, and that they provide him with various Gifts of the Spirit, one of which is telekinesis.

Alas, if only the same higher awareness was available at the time of the prophet Issa/Jesus, how THAT SITUATION would have been greatly altered and the emergence of a FALSE GOD would have been prevented


Let's strive to make sure that this doesn't happen again with Criss Angel, shall we?


You should also try tuning into the aura around Criss Angel - even in the videos - when he does his high levitations. If you are channeling the energies of discarnate Saints for higher awareness, you will see an abundance of yellow energy around Criss. That yellow energy is the source of his power to fly, change water to beer, read minds, and teleport small objects and himself.

DENY IGNORANCE.



[edit on 20-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Oh im sure some of the people around him in those episodes are legitimate audience members, but id say the ones that stand in a position to see the truth of the trick, are paid off. And once again, both of you have ignored the possibility of a confidentiality agreement Who the hell is going to risk being sued for breech of contract just to expose Criss Angel? No one, and thats a perfectly understandable reason why no one has come forward.

Come on...all they have to do is chime-in anonymously in this very thread. Thousands of people read ATS and BTS daily.

Secondly, there would be too many people involved to be paid off for a confidentiality agreement to stick and be viable financially.

Not one person has come forward to answer questions.

No one ever will.

There is also the assumption that those who work with Criss Angel actually know what the heck is happening with his above and beyond feats without props, wires, camera tricks, or paid off audiences.

I would not make the assumption that they understand his Gifts or see the situation clearly. That is, outside of what is being presented here.


In validating Criss Angel's Gift of Telekinesis, there is the testimony of 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan:


Originally posted by 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan
... I Know Criss Angel Personally. I Live Really Close To Him. I Visited His Secret Cabaret One Day, And He Said, "Now Alex, I Want You To Close Your Eyes." He Gave Me A Second Or Two And He Said "Is That Completed?" And I Said, "Check!" He Said, "Now Stick Your Hands Out, Cross Your Feet, And Your Fingers." I Said "Check!" And He Said, "Now, Breathe. Gently." And Right Then, I Lifted Into The Air, He Yelled "Open Your Eyes, You Motherfugger!" I Opened My Eyes, And I Was Levitated 15 Feet Off The Ground.

He never mentioned anything about a confidentiality agreement.



[edit on 20-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Do I believe that Criss Angel could have some abilities, sure.

Now that's a surprise


I am pleased to see a glimmer of light through a crack in the wall.

What can i say? I refuse to rule out the possibility.



Are you in the crowd of people who believe that Criss Angel is the reincarnation of Jesus?

No, cant say that i am.


Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Oh im sure some of the people around him in those episodes are legitimate audience members, but id say the ones that stand in a position to see the truth of the trick, are paid off. And once again, both of you have ignored the possibility of a confidentiality agreement Who the hell is going to risk being sued for breech of contract just to expose Criss Angel? No one, and thats a perfectly understandable reason why no one has come forward.

Come on...all they have to do is chime-in anonymously in this very thread. Thousands of people read ATS and BTS daily.

Secondly, there would be too many people involved to be paid off for a confidentiality agreement to stick and be viable financially.


As i said, not everyone is paid off and not everyone has to sign such an agreement. Check the bolded. Given the ammount of money this guy makes off of DVD sales, his TV specials, his Live shows, etc. I dont see how exactly expending a few thousand dollars here and there makes it economicaly unfeasible.

As for 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan, who validated his claim? He offered nothing but his word that this happened. Hardly a case closed situation.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Those who side with the camp that Criss Angel performs illusions while also occasionally using a Gift of Telekinesis - as in his walking on water (actually levitating above it)


ok - are you a liar , delusional or such a poor oberver that you somehow missed the obvious evidence to falsify your own claim ?

in the very vid you cite - it is clear @ 0.00.23 thst his shoes are dripping water , further - you can see the ripples of foot falls

so - it begs the question - how did you arrive at the conclusion that he is leviating above the water ?

the evidence of the vid does not support that conclusion - does angel make the claim himself - if so where ?

where do your beliefs on this topic origionate ?



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 01:05 PM
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Your evidence does NOT show that it refutes the claim of Criss being at or just above water level, not at all. Guess what? Water is SUPPOSED to drip from shoes, and feet, that are being immersed, even at a shallow level, into the old H2O. Simple. there is NO indication in that video, and I have watched it many times, of any supports, props, wires, columns or other tricks that would allow him to walk across the pool with multiple observers, observers so close that he actually had to stop and wait til they moved so he could continue; none of these people saw anything at eye level, in the pool. He loses a shoe during the walk and still the water supports him; you are misinterpreting the video.

And to ask intelligent people to believe that all of this huge crowd was paid off and silent is preposterous . The odds are greater mathematically that Criss can levitate without props than it is that all of the factors necessary for a hoax could be applied without discovery. It just takes a chess board approach to see it, a few moves out. Those who are trapped in the checker game are at a loss to explain the core issues: The high levitations that PaulRichard points out as well as the water events and many others. Those are the issues that the naysayers cannot and will not address in a convincing manner.

By the way, ' confidentialty agreements ' are worth no more than the paper they are written on. People violate agreements all the time and if one does the only thing that the aggrieved party can do is sue in court. Ever heard of Criss suing someone for violating an agreement? Why not? You mean to tell us that not ONE person amongst possible thousands of eyewitnesses to his events would not have come forward and gotten his or her 15 minutes of fame and maybe some money..whatever. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a rational person to believe that legions of people would remain silent forever, it is beyond the pale. More likely that what you see is really happening!! Too hard to grasp?

For many it is; unreasoned rejection of verifiable and repeatable feats witnessed by scores is not logical or worthy of much consideration. Until someone aswers the hard questions, with real evidence, not someone's foot dripping in a pool while their foot is immersed at times, that is an obvious result of the phenomenon and NOT some support. There is NO evidence of any supports, and swimmers swim all around and THROUGH the entire area where Criss walks.

But of course to the doubters all that means nothing, all the witnesses , all of the film, most uncut and constant at the critical moments, the total lack of proof of a hoax; it all means nada to the one's who flee from the hard questions, the one's we insist on getting an answer to. Still, not ONE compelling refutation. the only attempt so far, the ' dripping foot ' silliness, fails the test in many ways. First, after closely examining the video, I and others concur that there is NOTHING observed that would lend credence to the theory that there are underwater pillars or other supports of any type.

Drips might appear a little different when the forces that are being used to keep Criss from sinking affect the surface of the water at the area of his feet. Does that make sense? Is THAT too radical a physical possibility given the premise? Hopefully not; and if you do see the obvious, then you must admit that the dripping that you see is not evidence in and of itself of a prop, but of the force applied to the area to affect the desired result, ie.: the walking on water by Criss. Simple. You merely misunderstood the nature of the phenomenon and mistranslated what you were seeing. Could happen to anyone not looking for the esoteric possibilites as a normal part of the scientific inquiry, which excludes NOTHING in it's quest for truth.

So here we are PR, still atop Everest and watching for that magic helicopter to swoop down and bring us news of the latest feeble attempts at denying the obvious!! By the way, did you see the one where Criss jumps into the puddle that kids are playing in? It is great; the parents are freaked out and search the puddle, 3 inches deep max, and all the while after jumping in and disappearing from view, with water covering his head, he is sitting up on a third floor ledge above them watching the people below freak out!! Super. Oh crap, I can hear it now..He must have switched puddles, all the kids and parents are paid actors who really act convincingly and remain forever silent, it is all camera tricks, blah blah, blah..God I wish we would get an intelligent challenge for a change.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
So here we are PR, still atop Everest and watching for that magic helicopter to swoop down and bring us news of the latest feeble attempts at denying the obvious!!





You guys are a hoot!



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 02:26 PM
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We Should all be able to agree that Criss Angel uses fake witnesses.
For example, www.youtube.com...
Even if thats not how the trick is done, the guy who goes in the room with Criss would have to know what happened, and he still came out shocked...
That alone should be enough to question every other trick Criss Angel performs in front of other people.

Evidence that Criss Angel uses camera and editing tricks.
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
We should also be able to agree that if there is ever any clear proof at all that Criss Angel uses camera and editing tricks in any one of his tricks/stunts like the videos above imply, then he is a liar and a fake.

[edit on 20-7-2007 by JohnDoe43]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
As i said, not everyone is paid off and not everyone has to sign such an agreement. Check the bolded. Given the ammount of money this guy makes off of DVD sales, his TV specials, his Live shows, etc. I dont see how exactly expending a few thousand dollars here and there makes it economicaly unfeasible.

I disagree.

And it isn't just a few here and there. Hundreds if not thousands of people would have to be paid off.

Even with that, there is nothing to prevent them from getting paid AGAIN in a publication that rewards their sources (and may even take care of their legal fees) - like The National Enquirer for example. I remember the case when someone complained that TNE was stating something that was untrue about Sylvester Stallone. They had the perfect alibi: they got that information from his mother.



Originally posted by InSpiteOf
As for 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan, who validated his claim? He offered nothing but his word that this happened. Hardly a case closed situation.

No, but it constitutes anecdotal evidence regardless that needs to be considered in conjunction with other evidence.




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