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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 07:44 PM
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Criss Angel's Wife, Joanne, Files For Divorce



News Source


Angel, the punky illusionist known for his "Mindfreak" show on the A&E cable television network, subdued his sometimes flashy look at a court hearing Friday. But he displayed a bit of humor during a break, gesturing toward his estranged wife's lawyer and saying, "I can make him disappear."

The 39-year-old Angel, whose real name is Christopher Sarantakos, and his wife, Joanne, 37, married five years ago, after a decade of dating, according to her lawyer, Dominic Barbara. But the magician kept quiet about his marriage and then deserted his wife as he became famous and hasn't given her "a cent" of his millions, Barbara said.






posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 02:35 AM
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You assume too much.

The reality that some people have already awakened these abilities in themselves (such as telekinesis) to a greater or lesser degree is not the issue at hand here. Everyone has this ability already but it needs only to be awakened and hopefully in the proper fashion. Because certain people do have these abilities awakened does not also mean Criss Angel must have them. You are not engaging some JREF Cult member and I had hoped by now that rather than insulting my capabilities you would have at least considered another possible view on events. You are in fact nearly as closed minded as the JREF's.

So let's start with a simple idea by watching this clip of Criss Angel pulling a lady apart: youtube.com...
So, now let us ask the question: How did Criss Angel manage to put this lady back together again? Was this also done through telekinesis, since you claim I have no idea what I am writing about, or was it by some other method? And what happened to her afterwards, was she to remain cut in half for the rest of her life? So why can't they show us this VERY important part on the video clip?

Perhaps we should have seen it live - would that be your answer? If we saw it performed live then might that suggest that the video itself (with missing parts) does not show exactly what was done when live? And if this be the case, then could some video tampering/editing not also be a possibility here? Not even to mention, would seeing it live explain how Criss Angel managed to place the lady's torso back together again?

Obviously something is wrong here and you musn't simply ignore this.

As I learned to layhands (trained to use my Aetheric hands to heal), I can tell you Paul Richard, that I have seen spines straightened, but I have yet heard of such an ability that allows one to be cut in half, get up and start walking with her hands and then placed back together again. But wait just moment here! Did we ever see Criss place her torso back together again? Would you like to present me with another unknown ATS poster who knows someone who can validate this feat because he saw it live?

I do know what 'telekinesis' is and I understand that most people can not tell me when they see a magican performing a live illusion, vs. real occult phenomena. Please don't assume anything of my ability to determine this for myself, leave that part out of this discussion if you don't mind.

Once again, I ask you to consider looking into each individual trick he performs. The answers are never found in what you believe another person saw, whether there was 10 people, or 1 million people. You always start with what you first have to go by. In most cases it is the video footage! This footage must first be authenticated - nevermind about who saw what until you can at least do that.

You cannot have it both ways: You cannot imply that thousands of people who watch a Criss Angel video on youtube or metacafe and see how the video was tampered are ALL wrong or lying! Are you also a video editing expert and expect us all to ignore the video evidence? youtube.com... I hererby proclaim that after watching this video and seeing what my own eyes can ONLY see, that editing and tampering has indeed occurred. Am I being dishonest in saying so? I never claimed to have seen it performed live.

So should we be asking all those people who claim aliens kidnapped them and did experiments on them, if they are lying to us? Why even ask such questions when the answer is irrelevent when you look upon each case individually!

Only then can we know anything.

Sweft



[edit on 2-7-2007 by sweftl337]



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by sweftl337
So let's start with a simple idea by watching this clip of Criss Angel pulling a lady apart.

Yeah...let's.


That video clip is not on my outside links page precisely because it is not indicative of a Gift of Telekinesis.


The very fact that you reference that clip points to you not having any experience in distinguishing between a Gift of Telekinesis and the illusion and misdirection of a magician. The video of Criss Angel pulling a woman apart in a park is one of his illusions. Telekinesis had nothing to do with it.

Please tell us that you have something more than this to show us that Criss Angel does not have a Gift of Telekinesis


We are still waiting for a cogent argument on how Criss Angel, in front of dozens, even hundreds of eyewitnesses who were not paid off, has levitated many feet offstage in the air without the aid of props, wires, cranes, helicopters, camera tricks, etc.

While you are at it, also explain to us how 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan, assuming that he is not lying - which we do - was levitated 15 feet in the air in the presence of Criss Angel.

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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Picking out one illusion that an illusionist performs and trying to compare that to totally different events is disingenuous and clouding the real issue. These guys, Angel, Takayama and Blaine all have a litany of illusions they perfom as well as the real feats of levitation,etc.

Once again, we have seen or heard not one valid excude as to how Criss Angel could fool dozens or scores of people who are right there to examine for props and who never find them. Not one valid reason that could show how it could be faked. The naysayers are totally unsatisfying with their weak assumptions based on nothing but a rabid desbelief in anything that they cannot comprehend.

PR. you boiled it down again : Tell us how Criss flys high in the air and without any props, wires, cranes,etc. Make your answer more believable than the allegation that it is all real and I will reconsider. But so far not one logical and believable reply has been forthcoming. And I expect that none will be. As far as I am concerned, the issue is over until the opposition finds some convincing way to demonstrate this phenomenon or replicate it using only what we see Criss using.

You mentioned Banachek, was'nt that the name of the character on the old " nightwalker ' TV show? (LOL!!). Old stage magicians would pass out if they ever rose above the stage without props; they would think they were hallucinating!! So when they see a real adept perform such feats, an automatic denial kicks in so that their exalted status as ' Master Magicians ' will not become a sad reminder that trickery and sleight of hand is not the end of the experience for those who believe outside the box. I almost feel sorry for the deniers; it is sad when people cannot accept the plain truth.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Please tell us that you have something more than this to show us that Criss Angel does not have a Gift of Telekinesis




Actually, I believe the burden of proof is on you to prove he does have powers. The fact that he does perform *some* illusions and uses *some* camera tricks means we can not use footage from his television show as an objective source. Isn't it much, much more believable that we just don't know how he performs this trick, but that it is indeed a trick?

The question is, what makes levitation exempt from the rules and standards we hold his other illusions to? For you, its that it falls in line with a deeper sense of spirituality that you believe in, and you want to believe in. You are willing to accept a television show's word that this man has telekinetic powers.

Isn't it strange that he is profitting so much from this, instead of trying to convince people of the ethereal? Shouldn't he be using his "powers" for good, instead of for making money within this capitalist american system dominated by advertising dollars and stupid viewers?

As I see it the facts are this:

1. Chris Sarantakos makes his living from performing illusions.
2. Chris has a television show.
3. Chris Sarantakos has used camera tricks before.
4. There are some illusions that we do not know the "trick" to.
5. Ascribing a lack of knowledge to "magic" is folly on our part.

I just don't see enough to be convinced of Chris Sarantakos' telekinetic powers. I agree it would be much easier to accept everything you see on TV, and as soon as you actually start critically thinking the show does lose a lot of its "magic" - so keep it if you want, but I prefer logic and rationality. Ignorance is bliss for some I guess...



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
PR. you boiled it down again : Tell us how Criss flys high in the air and without any props, wires, cranes,etc. Make your answer more believable than the allegation that it is all real and I will reconsider. But so far not one logical and believable reply has been forthcoming. And I expect that none will be. As far as I am concerned, the issue is over until the opposition finds some convincing way to demonstrate this phenomenon or replicate it using only what we see Criss using.



There is no answer which will satisfy you. If I say he has intense magnets in the soles of his shoes and belt buckle and a superconductor in the trunk of a nearby car you will say its not plausible or believable. Green screens? Paid audiences? Digital manipulation? Invisible jetpack?

You realize those are all MUCH more plausible answers than "MAGIC" don't you? Even an invisible jetpack has at least a rational explanation in that it provides a physical explanation for what has occurred. The fact that the technology is beyond you or I, or can't be bought on the street is on par with the fact that neither you nor I can levitate through magic ourselves.

Apply consistant standards and you'll see how your explanation falls in the face of true logic.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 10:43 AM
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CaptainJailew,

Criss Angel has said publicly on a number of occasions that he does not use trick photography. What the audience sees is what is captured on film.

So explain to us how he does his high levitations without props, wires, cranes, helicopters, or camera tricks.




posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Criss Angel has said publicly on a number of occasions that he does not use trick photography. What the audience sees is what is captured on film.

So explain to us how he does his high levitations without props, wires, cranes, helicopters, or camera tricks.


Explain to me why you think he is telling the truth? He has a stage name, and an act...why wouldn't it all be part of the same?




What the audience sees is what is captured on film.


What if the audience is a group of extras, of paid actors, for those few stunts or illusions done in the show which do require camera tricks? That way he can still perform street magic, and impress people with card tricks and sleight of hand, but also uses "movie magic" for the more breath-taking illusions.

It just seems like this is the most logical explanation, but I'm saying this never having experienced "real magic" or whatever experiences have given you the perspective you have. Once again, the burden of proof is on the allegation that Chris Sarantakos has supernatural abilities, and even further the allegation that supernatural abilities exist. In my mind at least.


[edit on 2-7-2007 by CaptainJailew]



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 11:24 AM
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That video clip is not on my outside links page precisely because it is not indicative of a Gift of Telekinesis.



The very fact that you reference that clip points to you not having any experience in distinguishing between a Gift of Telekinesis and the illusion and misdirection of a magician.


Another unfounded slur on my ability to discern. I suspected this much earlier and I made an error in continuing to engage you. Again, you ignored everything I wrote and went straight for the throat by assuming you found some apparent weakness in my argument. No where have I implied Criss Angel uses Telekinesis.

My point was that we must look upon each trick individually.

And your answer of 'illusion' hardly describes "how he did it". You do not know what Aether type is responsible for allowing him to do this feat (intrinsic, creative Aethers etc) and of course, he used none of them! Criss Angel has not done enough work to eliminate his own personal egoism such that he could possibly be using creative Aethers. He hasn't the ability to do these feats although he may have awakened abilities which you have yet written about. All advanced mystics prefer to live away from 'fame' for many reasons.

You assume too much.
Sweft

P.S And please, keep Joshua Emmanuel the Christ out of this idea of famous. I've read your ideas on the 'Christ event' and to put it mildly, you make a similar mistake as Madame Blavatksy, Benjamen Creme and others.



[edit on 2-7-2007 by sweftl337]



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 11:42 AM
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It's curious that some people in this thread keep demanding that we tell them how the magician/illusionist Chris Angel levitates but continually and conveniently keep ignoring the video sweftl337 has posted.

Don't worry, I know this post will be dismissed/ignored like all the other postings of this video and yet some will still demand that we tell them how the trick is done in a few more posts. lol

A broken record I tells ya.



[edit on 7/2/2007 by kinglizard]



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainJailew
There is no answer which will satisfy you. If I say he has intense magnets in the soles of his shoes and belt buckle and a superconductor in the trunk of a nearby car you will say its not plausible or believable. Green screens? Paid audiences? Digital manipulation? Invisible jetpack?

You realize those are all MUCH more plausible answers than "MAGIC" don't you? Even an invisible jetpack has at least a rational explanation in that it provides a physical explanation for what has occurred. The fact that the technology is beyond you or I, or can't be bought on the street is on par with the fact that neither you nor I can levitate through magic ourselves.


To me, the point is, if this were really an illusion being done with wires, cranes, helicopters, mirrors, invisible platforms or supports, magnets, jetpacks, or whatever props - then other illusionists who are experts at such things would be able to reproduce the same illusion and demonstrate exactly how it's done.

However, to my knowledge, NO ONE has ever done this - not even people like David Blaine. NO ONE can match or reproduce Criss Angel's feats. You were able to throw out some weak guesses of course - green screens, paid off audiences, film editing, invisible magnets and jetpacks (???), but that's not even remotely close to real proof.

To really support the "illusion" hypothesis, you need some real evidence. Simply saying "well it's a TV show and he has a camera crew and he's making money, therefore ALL his feats must be illusions with props and paid off audiences and film editing", that is argumentation only, not supported with any tangible evidence.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Criss Angel has said publicly on a number of occasions that he does not use trick photography. What the audience sees is what is captured on film.



Originally posted by CaptainJailew
Explain to me why you think he is telling the truth?

In part, because of what I stated previously, because he does his high levitations without props, wires, cranes, helicopters, or camera tricks. And there are hundreds of eyewitnesses to those events.

Now answer the question you dodged...

How do you explain Criss Angel's high levitations?




posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

To me, the point is, if this were really an illusion being done with wires, cranes, helicopters, mirrors, invisible platforms or supports, magnets, jetpacks, or whatever props - then other illusionists who are experts at such things would be able to reproduce the same illusion and demonstrate exactly how it's done.

However, to my knowledge, NO ONE has ever done this - not even people like David Blaine. NO ONE can match or reproduce Criss Angel's feats. You were able to throw out some weak guesses of course - green screens, paid off audiences, film editing, invisible magnets and jetpacks (???), but that's not even remotely close to real proof.

To really support the "illusion" hypothesis, you need some real evidence. Simply saying "well it's a TV show and he has a camera crew and he's making money, therefore ALL his feats must be illusions with props and paid off audiences and film editing", that is argumentation only, not supported with any tangible evidence.

Excellent points MrdDstrbr
:


In addition to his building to building levitation, Criss Angel also flew around a golf course (and over a tree), hovered 500 feet in the air and above the Luxor pyramid lights in Las Vegas, and also levitated down many flights from the largest atrium in the world - inside the Luxor Hotel.


Moreover, we have the testimony of 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan when he stated earlier in this thread that he was levitated 15 feet while in the presence of Criss Angel.

The digital editing argument just falls apart.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
It's curious that some people in this thread keep demanding that we tell them how the magician/illusionist Chris Angel levitates but continually and conveniently keep ignoring the video sweftl337 has posted.

Don't worry, I know this post will be dismissed/ignored like all the other postings of this video and yet some will still demand that we tell them how the trick is done in a few more posts. lol

A broken record I tells ya.
[edit on 7/2/2007 by kinglizard]


Many of these feats are done right out in the open in very public locations, so where are the witnesses who have caught CA's team in the act, setting up props, invisible wires and harnesses and cranes and whatnot, doing multiple takes of the same stunt with different cameras at different times of day in order to digitally edit them later....? Why haven't any witnesses come forward with photographs, footage or audio of CA's team doing their setup?

If audience members are being paid off to act all shocked and amazed at CA's feats, why haven't any come forward with footage or audiotape, "Here, here's smoking gun PROOF of me being paid off by CA's production team!"

In other words, if these feats are all carefully produced hoaxes, it would be VERY easy to catch them in the act of setting up the hoax and provide smoking gun PROOF of it. Simply follow CA's production team around and CATCH them in the act of setting up the illusions and paying people off (since CA does these feats in such public locations)....

The video you're referring to has some good evidence that some film editing has taken place, but it's still far from proof that the levitation is an illusion.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
If audience members are being paid off to act all shocked and amazed at CA's feats, why haven't any come forward with footage or audiotape, "Here, here's smoking gun PROOF of me being paid off by CA's production team!"


Even if they came forward, who would really care? And who would they come forward to?

If someone had video of a stage magician jamming pigeons in his coat before a show, think anyone at 60 Minutes would be all giggily at the prospect? It's entertainment. Most of us realize that and don't have the desire or inclination to poop in the punch bowl.

If Criss Angel was claiming some supernatural power and funding a cult, people would be all over him. But he's an entertainer. He does wild stuff. I don't know how, and don't care. My guess is most of it takes sufficient skill that even if we knew how, most of us wouldn't be able to do it. I see guys dunk a basketball all the time. I know how they do it, but I don't posess that ability. I see guys hit major league curveballs out of the park and I know how they do, but I can't.

He's an illusionist with enough knowledge and skill to put on a very good show. Even if I knew exactly how he did it, I don't think i'd be able to replicate most of what he does, any more than I could play a gangster as well as De Niro.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The digital editing argument just falls apart.


So they faked the levitation in the video example posted above by using digital manipulation, creative editing, wires and actors but you claim other levitations are legit. Use a little critical thinking here. He wouldn't need to fake ANY levitation if he really had the power to do it unaided.

You say "show me how he preforms the levitation".

We show you how he fakes the levitation, through his own video.

You say "he doesn't use wires, actors, creative editing".

We show definitive proof that he does through his own video.

Then you dismiss all the evidence we give you by saying "well that was a low level levitation, the high levitations can only be done by manipulating the laws of this universe.....".

Well that is completely unreasonable and devoid of critical thinking.

If he could really levitate, he wouldn't need to fake ANY of them no matter the height.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright
Even if they came forward, who would really care? And who would they come forward to?

US.

He certainly has Penn snowed.



Originally posted by yeahright
If Criss Angel was claiming some supernatural power and funding a cult, people would be all over him.

Correct


He doesn't claim to have powers while at the same time he also says that much of what he does is real and that he leaves it up to the audience to decide.

Criss Angel is a shrewd businessman. His Mindfreak show is very successful and he boasts that the Mindfread on DVD is the biggest selling A&E DVD at Best Buy, and that he has more airtime than any other magician, mystifier, or illusionist in the entire world


Yeah...so he laughs all the way to the bank because of his Gift, while many harbor their perspective by that very popular river in Egypt.

You know...

The river DE-NIAL.


Moreover, there are in fact people who are "all over him." Many think he is the second coming of Jesus. I do not.

Criss Angel = Jesus

Criss Angel Might Be Jesus!




posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright

Even if they came forward, who would really care? And who would they come forward to?
.....
He's an illusionist with enough knowledge and skill to put on a very good show. Even if I knew exactly how he did it, I don't think i'd be able to replicate most of what he does, any more than I could play a gangster as well as De Niro.


"All magic is just stunts and illusions, I don't know how they do it and don't care, back to everyday life....."

That's certainly a common attitude, but aren't you even remotely excited or intrigued by the possibility that at least SOME "magic" could really be real?



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 01:14 PM
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kinglizard,

Hey...I thought you gave up on this?


It only takes ONE legitimate levitation to indicate a Gift of Telekinesis.

Much like it only takes ONE UFO to be extraterrestrial in nature for aliens to be visiting this world and only ONE near-death experience - like yours when you visited "God" in a Christian heaven - to legitimize these phenomenon.





posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
That's certainly a common attitude, but aren't you even remotely excited or intrigued by the possibility that at least SOME "magic" could really be real?


No more so than I would be about someone catching a leprechaun. And I think it's just as likely.

Houdini did some incredible things, which I can't possibly explain. As techniques improve and knowledge increases and technology advances, things get more and more spectacular.

I saw Siegfried and Roy do stuff on a stage in Vegas 20+ years ago that were truly mind blowingly spectacular. And it's only gotten better since then.

But I don't think supernatural-type magic like true levitation etc exists. Sorry, it's fun but not real. IMHO.




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