criss angel discussion...

Originally posted by UnrealZAHave you ever asked why he only flies while in show, on stage? Why does he walk onto a talk show and not fly in? Well, because he can't really fly that's why. It would take Cooperfield showing you how it's done in order to convince you that it's a trick BUT even then, considering your presupposition to believe, you may still not be convinced.

I get your point. You are far more certain of your position than I. I have no presupposition to believe, as you charge. In fact, I am an extreme sceptic. What I believe is based on my own experiences, not presupposition. The reason I went to three Copperfield shows is that I could not get my head around what I saw there. I don't know what the method of his flying illusion is, but I doubt that you are any more knowledgeable on the topic than I. You state matter-of-factly that he can't fly. Most would agree, but, your statement does not make it so, it is no more than your view. I have no better explanation, as yet, for Angel, Blaine, and Copperfield flying, than that they are doing so. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you are, despite your tone of self-assuredness. I look forward to the day that I am shown how it's done. You have absolutely no idea how much I'd like to see that. I don't care if nobody agrees with me, thats not why I make my choices about what I believe. If I worried about optics, I'd never express such unpopular views as I do.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Originally posted by UnrealZAHave you ever asked why he only flies while in show, on stage? Why does he walk onto a talk show and not fly in? Well, because he can't really fly that's why. It would take Cooperfield showing you how it's done in order to convince you that it's a trick BUT even then, considering your presupposition to believe, you may still not be convinced.

I get your point. You are far more certain of your position than I. I have no presupposition to believe, as you charge. In fact, I am an extreme sceptic. What I believe is based on my own experiences, not presupposition. The reason I went to three Copperfield shows is that I could not get my head around what I saw there. I don't know what the method of his flying illusion is, but I doubt that you are any more knowledgeable on the topic than I. You state matter-of-factly that he can't fly. Most would agree, but, your statement does not make it so, it is no more than your view. I have no better explanation, as yet, for Angel, Blaine, and Copperfield flying, than that they are doing so. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you are, despite your tone of self-assuredness. I look forward to the day that I am shown how it's done. You have absolutely no idea how much I'd like to see that. I don't care if nobody agrees with me, thats not why I make my choices about what I believe. If I worried about optics, I'd never express such unpopular views as I do.

I appreciate your reply. May I recommend a Goggle search titled "Chris Angel levitation". You may come across a video where Mr. Angel himself explains exactly how he levitates.

I'll explain this in a nutshell. He wears some baggy pants, almost always black in color. One show is connected to the pant leg. He places his legs close together, slips one foot out and onto something in front of him, like a box. From behind it appears that both feet are level, he then raises himself up on his barefoot (which has a black sock on it) and he appears to levitate. To end the trick he slips his foot back in his shoe and walks away. You feel like a sucker after watching it.

I get your point. You are far more certain of your position than I. I have no presupposition to believe, as you charge. In fact, I am an extreme sceptic. What I believe is based on my own experiences, not presupposition.

When one claims they have no presupposition this then is their presupposition. In other words your presupposition is to be skeptical of everything. You PRESUPPOSE all things in a skeptical manner.

for everyone that think criss angel is fake....there are tricks that he does that are "fake" or should i say only an illusion.. well there are tricks that he does that cant be explained at all... I myself was an audience member and saw him doing "street magic". There were only about 7 people including myself... It was not video taped but it was in the vegas area.. He ended up doing about 6 different tricks that were all very interesting.. the levitations that you see, well there is a way to do it and he did explain that way to us but then he did another form of levitation and this time he asked us all to surround him (everyone was about 4ft away in this circle). he lifted straight up, no joke, just straight up .. he didnt move his legs, just his arms. It was outside about 60 ft away or maybe more from the nearist building so it wasnt wires.. after he did that he said he wouldnt explain the way to do that but it has something to do with mind over matter or something like that. it was crazy seeing something that i thought was fake on tv up close with the real person and see it myself... everyone that thinks its green screens or wires, your completely wrong...

Ya know, I've been doing magic for quite a while now and have read quite a few books on the subject. One of them pointed out that people jump to the dumbest conclusions. It's true now that I think about it. As a kid I saw a magic trick and pointed out that the handkerchief was in the other hand. I was so smart. Of course, the magician opened his hand to reveal a totally different one and continued with the trick. Point is, things really aren't as easy as they seem. Yes, Angel is using tricks and illusions, but cameras and green screens? Come on.

'quote: Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII I am an extreme sceptic. What I believe is based on my own experiences, not presupposition. The reason I went to three Copperfield shows is that I could not get my head around what I saw there. I don't know what the method of his flying illusion is, but I doubt that you are any more knowledgeable on the topic than I. You state matter-of-factly that he can't fly. Most would agree, but, your statement does not make it so, it is no more than your view. I have no better explanation, as yet, for Angel, Blaine, and Copperfield flying, than that they are doing so. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you are, despite your tone of self-assuredness. I look forward to the day that I am shown how it's done. You have absolutely no idea how much I'd like to see that. I don't care if nobody agrees with me, thats not why I make my choices about what I believe.'

unrealZA
I appreciate your reply. May I recommend a Goggle search titled "Chris Angel levitation". You may come across a video where Mr. Angel himself explains exactly how he levitates.

I'll explain this in a nutshell. He wears some baggy pants, almost always black in color. One show is connected to the pant leg. He places his legs close together, slips one foot out and onto something in front of him, like a box. From behind it appears that both feet are level, he then raises himself up on his barefoot (which has a black sock on it) and he appears to levitate. To end the trick he slips his foot back in his shoe and walks away. You feel like a sucker after watching it.

'BG 13 quote:
I get your point. You are far more certain of your position than I. I have no presupposition to believe, as you charge. In fact, I am an extreme sceptic. What I believe is based on my own experiences, not presupposition.'

unreal ZA
When one claims they have no presupposition this then is their presupposition. In other words your presupposition is to be skeptical of everything. You PRESUPPOSE all things in a skeptical manner.

I hear you ZA, but I will agree to disagree. I saw the Angel video, which does show how to fake a minor levitation. It doesn't explain his roof to roof flight, or his levitations which are over head height. He also walked down the side of the Aladdin, and walked on water.... or faked it. I know that illusionists use countless tricks to fake magic. But, imho, they also do things that no explanation can answer. As I said, I saw it live... and it was amazing. Whether its high tech trickery, or some other ability as yet unknown to science, that these illusionists are using, either way it is very impressive.
I don't quite get your last point, except that it seems to support and reiterate my point. I am a curious one, and ask lots of questions. If the answers don't make sense to me, I look for others that do. Often the ones I like best are different than what most people accept as being the most probably accurate one. I can't help that. I presuppose, yes, and I prejudge too. But... I also trust people even if what they tell me sounds beyond belief, until and unless I find reason to distrust them. So I am a trusting skeptic who always asks when he doesn't quite get what is being conveyed to him. If you feel they can't fly, thats great. I know you may be right. Until I hear a better explanation for what I've seen, though, I will stick with my current conclusions. And I hope all people do the same. Thanks for your reply. One last query. Are you absolutely certain they don't fly? If so, why are you so convinced?

Hello to all... hope you enjoy Criss Angel too!

I really try to focus on some surrounding items during his work...

4 points.

1. During the 'ring in the icecube' episode...

The icecube used that had the ring.. to me was NOT the same type

of ice cube used by the restaurant... in fact ..it looked like it came

from a generic home refrigerator.

2. During his recent "Army visit', the table used to bring the model

alive from the magazine.. the bottom of the table reflects.. glass/plastic..

and he has everyone.. get to the front.. as he talks to them..

3. During the above episode... he also talks to a 'family tribe', and has

a little girl levitate... if you watch closeley... it seems another light shows on

the girl.. almost radiance... maybe mirror/light usage?

4. Has ANYONE talked to the people who have been levetated/ or brought out

of nowhere? Maybe they have to sign NON-Disclosure forms... especially that

girl.. who dissapeared under the blanket, while sitting in a chair .. in front of

a crowd in Las Vegas.. i think.

Levitation.. magnets? directing his direction from another position on the ground? If you put opossing fields together.. you can control various weights
I would imagine.

No matter how you look at it.. he has brought such topics to another. .even
unknown level.

Congratulations.. and I would actually consider him a National Treasure.. bringing
all of us together.. to witness and discuss a unique human being.. I wonder if the
Russians want him....

Mike

We may all say our stuffs to defend our beliefs, either it's plain tricks or with paranormal abilities, or even none of these options.

Don't try to hurt yourself. You can't reconcile to "believe what you see" coz you're actually can't believe and trust your senses and what your brain immediately dictates you. You should know your capacity and limitations, you can't get through in my brain nerves nor in angel's.

You can't even expect anyone to do as you like (even its the most logical one) because we have different preferences and intentions. So, even if you pay me a billion dollars to show off my abilities, if I don't feel like it, you can't just push me.

And now, based on what I know, and what I don't know — Criss Angel is a magician/illusionist, a tv permormer/entertainer with some tricks and cool stuffs to show to our amazement. But don't just think he only has one way of doing these. Defying the laws of science known to man (ex. physics) is a great deal, and beyond the capabilities of human flesh alone, but is still possible.

(If you disagree to what I'm saying, I don't care!)

Laws of Physics are not the only thing to consider here. Truth/Reality is not confined to your limited minds — it exists even without your consent, or even if you cease to exist!

The common word for it that I may use for your understanding is = "SPIRIT"

If you don't believe to spirits (in its real sense), you just can't understand it in your own way. Try to learn first the simple matters that your eyes can see before trying to figure out the complex things beyond the limits of your senses.

Be appreciative of what you have now, what you know now. Value these even the things that you don't have now, and what you don't know now.

Thanks to whom it deserves.

its been awhile, and i just want to check posts here, but as expected, many are incapable of seeing beyond the limits of their naked eyes!

skeptics say: "to see is to believe"
another skeptic say: "i can't believe what i saw"

haha, it's pathetic! you're bounded seeing REALITY with biased minds and self-imposed standards of knowing the truth!

lucky to those who can actually see what i'm showing here
(very few or perhaps none at all)

--- i'll just check again later ---

Criss Angel is a mare human. Maybe a demon, or angel, but for now...Ima just call him a human.
It's simply illusions. Basically, he's letting you see what he wants you to see. Lying to you directly in your face.
The rule of magicians, is never perform the same trick twice to the same inidviual, especially if the person/people are very inqusistive & curious. Because they will determine your methods.
I dare Criss to perform some of his most "magical" tricks on me atleast 3 times.

Criss Angel does two kinds of magic... one is true illusion, and the other isn't illusion what-so-ever, its real, yet unexplained... but he demonstrates how he does it all, you just have to pay attention and know what he's doing... I've read considerable amounts of books on human potential (or magic / psi, etc) ... and considerable amounts of books on sorcery... imo, he is a master of awareness, and a stalker (according to carlos castaneda's description) ...

this sorcery he uses, or learned ... whatever... describes the universe as a limitless amount of bands of emanations, like strings... (similar to string theory) and that mans assemblage point (the location where the bands inside interact with the bands outside) is habitually focused on these set of emanations and thats why this world is what we percieve... more indepth but pertaining to the explanation, along these bands you can move your assemblage point to meet up with the different bands of emanations...
shifts in your assemblage point causes things like day-dreams, which is a small shift in the assemblage point, and hallucinations which is a larger shift in the assemblage point, the further the move from the habitual position of the assemblage point the more intense the hallucinations, if your assemblage point moves laterally across the bands it creates worlds that are similar in nature to the earth and galaxy that we know, (day-dreams are usually of that kind) ....

so what criss angel does since he's a master of awareness and can move his assemblage point, he can influence other peoples assemblage point to move as-well... in a sense walking your assemblage point across the bands laterally... which is the same as 'grabbing someones attention' ... it stops a persons internal 'me' dialogue'...
all he has to do is visualize something and intend it... like intend for you to choose a certain card, or intend for you to look somewhere, and if he can move his assemblage point and keep it locked in its new position he can make what seem to be miracles happen, or get hit by a car, and at the right moment of impact, move his assemblage point somewhere else, and back quick enough to miss the impact but be caught in the rubble...
I marvel at his ability to use intent and his abilities as a dreamer...

but than again, I could be wrong wrong wrong,... but I've heard of people doing crazier things and they weren't magicians.. they were sorcerers, or 'shamans' and they did these things for the spirit, or .. energy... not for money or a demonstration.

That's obviously why he's so famous and everyone is interviewing him about his amazing abilities.

Thanks for the sarcasm, but really, thats the reason why he does illusions as well... because he can explain SOME of it away, as I do this, and such and such happens.. but some of it I believe is even beyond his total comprehension, he just knows techniques that produce certain effects..

Or maybe he prays to Satan.
Lol, it's just a thought.

Originally posted by sdrawkcab
Criss Angel is a mare human. Maybe a demon, or angel, but for now...Ima just call him a human.
It's simply illusions. Basically, he's letting you see what he wants you to see. Lying to you directly in your face.
The rule of magicians, is never perform the same trick twice to the same inidviual, especially if the person/people are very inqusistive & curious. Because they will determine your methods.
I dare Criss to perform some of his most "magical" tricks on me atleast 3 times.

First, I have seen David Copperfield perform the same 'illusion' live in person more than once. Some of his 'tricks' remain in his show year after year. If you really want to prove your point, why not just buy tickets to three shows? You could go and see the same show ten times if you wanted to. If these guys can perform the same show over 100 times in a year, why aren't there lots of skeptics doing just what you suggest?
I don't know how they do it, and I have unanswered questions as to why, if they do have some sort of rare power or ability, don't they use it to help the world's starving? That question makes me doubt they are angels, but who knows?
PS. I am very curious.

Originally posted by they see ALL

Originally posted by mwen
Man you should have see the earlier one a few years ago...He came out of nowhere and start walking up the wall...I went banana after I saw it...

amazing

i really want to know how to levitate like he did...

and i really want to be able to explain how he does all of this "magic"

Ditto. I really wish to know (without death) how he levitates. I've been thinking about it and thinking about it for over a year now and the secret's driving me wild and crazy !!

Dallas

by a movement of his assemblage point.. is it so hard to believe?

you might want to check into the nagual, and its secrets.

he's a master if intent and awareness... watch when he does his explanations of some of the tricks.. its not how he actually did it... Like his coin trick explanation in the strait-jacket boat episode. He explains a simple way of doing it instead of the way he actually did it.

he wants people to focus in on what he's doing not how... lol its all demonstration... those who watch hard enough can see something spectacular....

Notice how he looks some-what drunk some times? especially when doing things that mystify people... because when your in your second attention, or your using your dreaming body, it appears to everyone else like your wobbly or slightly drunk.. Pay attention to his eyes... the eyes of intent... Pay direct attention to his body.. not particularly what or how he's doing it.. just what he's doing and what it all looks like..

Keep up the great debunking.. lol I see a lot of defeated rationalists in here.. lol

chill out with all that don juan stuff. ive read it, and its interesting, but no more different then the rest of the stuff out there, just slightly different techniques, philosophy, and propaganda.
criss, cyril, blaine, i cant explain all of their tricks, hell, i cant explain any of them, and the sites that claim to explain them, usually explain the blatantly obvious way to do one or a few of their tricks, like the levitating by raising on your foot at a specfic angle #, but fail to explain the other ways they levitated, that are blatant to those surrounding criss, and those watching, that he is not lifting on a foot or stepping up on anything.
all in all, who knows. if criss can really do half of what he does on tv, thats cool. my life continues. if it was me, i wouldnt bother to reveal any "magical" secrets. for what. whats the point. for more stress and b.s. just keep doin what you do, and get paid for it, and keep your little illusions, or real life magic to yourself. i would. why get involved with more b.s from annoying human beings with nothing better to do. the simple mind, thinks that anyone with an alledged special ability, is automatically supposed to come out and blast it all over the media, for all to dissect and be mesmerized over, and thats why the simple mind usually doesnt achieve very much, and stays within its own simple illusion.

i would not get so pumped in the head because you read some don juan books, and just come in here explaining what criss angel does, as pure magic, and no illusions whatsoever. which is the way your coming off.

read more, learn more, post less.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by jimmy1200]

Levitation "by movement of his assemblage point.." I guess I'll check the dictionary first.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas

I have asked before about his levitating. Is there anyone out there who witnessed his levitating????

I really need to know if the audiance was paid or how did he do it???

Dallas

My wife's sister was PAID to be a part of his audience in Vegas, thus I would assume all audience members and onlookers are paid to be a part of his nonsense.

Originally posted by RRP MMP 06

Originally posted by Dallas

I have asked before about his levitating. Is there anyone out there who witnessed his levitating????

I really need to know if the audiance was paid or how did he do it???

Dallas

My wife's sister was PAID to be a part of his audience in Vegas, thus I would assume all audience members and onlookers are paid to be a part of his nonsense.

There has already been a member who posted that he saw Criss perform in Vegas and was not paid to do so.
Besides, it makes no sense for a performer to pay the audience, and is far more likely that the audience pays him instead.

www.michaelbach.de...

Check out this web page and illusion.

The website has a host of illusions. some more interesting than others.

My favorite so far is the 'walking shoes' on a plain field, and then a 'cross walk'

effect.. You could swear that the lighter colored foot STOPS at each interval.

IT DOES NOT..!

If we take it steps (pardon the pun), further.. you have a Criss Angel.


Mike