criss angel discussion...

Originally posted by violet

“It will be something really crazy, really extraordinary, really unbelievable and really dangerous;

Really?

something we have never attempted before.

Oh. My. God. Criss Angel will perform his most amazing magic ever, he will, live on air, appear genuinely humble! The word "modest" could even be used to describe his mien.

Success will be noted by whether or not his facade cracks during the performance of the most spectacular illusion Angel has ever performed.

OMG!

Am I dreaming or is this thread still going?

My last post was on page 80-something and I just gave up trying to convince those who are too ignorant to open their eyes to the possibility that CA isn't the second coming of our lord and savior.

I happened to stumble back over here and find 30 more pages. And guess who is at the top of the page? My old buddy Eyewitness86 who is still beating the same dead horse.

This thread has proven only one thing to me. That all it takes is one illusionist and pretty soon you have a religion. Turn a little water into wine. Walk across water. Stretch out some bread and fish. Levitate across a golf course.

Just wait for CA's newest trick, curing blindness and healing lepers.

There is noway im sifting through 127 pages of this.but did they ever figure how criss angel levitates?

Originally posted by alienstar
There is noway im sifting through 127 pages of this.but did they ever figure how criss angel levitates?

No need to read it all: It all boiuls down to this, my friend: Criss Angel can levitate and does so on occasion withouit the use of props. He actually levitates. The DENIER's, those people who, despite ZERO evidence of any props being used, still insist that the props must be there because they do not believe that the laws of physics may not apply to ethereal influences. In other words, they don't think that anyone can levitate and have closed their minds and so they insist that props must be there, even though none can ever be seen, none have ever been photographed or witnessed and none have ever been used to replicate Criss' events.

No human being has ever done what Criss has done...not one. no stunt man or illusionist has ever duplicated Criss events WITH props that cannot be seen so we can see how Criss does it; no opne exceeds Criss and not one magician or illusionist or anyone else has ever levitated at height in full view of the public...no one ever surpasses Criss. These facts mean nothing to the Denier's, of course, who invent all manner of imaginary wires and props that cannot be seen..and they imagine with ZERO proof that all of the witnesses are paid off...and remain loyal and silent forever!!

There literally is NO limit to the absurdities that a Denier will embrace to avoid believing in levitation and the simple and plain facts. They will claim with a straight face that Criss hires scores of people to lie and act amazed for the camera's and ask us to believe that ALL of these people never spill the beans and admit it!! Funny stuff!! Sad that they really believe it..but still. They ask us to believe that the films of all the people have been altered or tricked...but they have ZERO proof of this and no film editors or employees ever come forward to tell the tale of trickery..

They will believe that Criss can influence complete strangers to remain loyal for life to keep his secret...but not that he can levitate..strange. Levitation is not unheard of, but rare, and a Denier will accept all types of far out and impossible scenarios rather than admit the plain truth: Criss can levitate and NO proof that he cannot has ever been presented. They ask US to give them absolute proof and then they reject it for petty and ridiculous reasons, based on more assumptions..their whole story is assumptions and guesses and stubborn clinging to an empty bucket of nothing.

Hope this answers youir question.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
They ask US to give them absolute proof and then they reject it for petty and ridiculous reasons, based on more assumptions..their whole story is assumptions and guesses and stubborn clinging to an empty bucket of nothing.

Yes, we ask those that espouse the levitation theory to back up their claim with independent evidence. You made the claim, the burden of proof lies on YOU! NOT US!


We have provided substantial video evidence of stooges, numerous takes strung together to look as one continuous shot, and anomalies.

You on the other hand, simple launch into tirade after tirade, spilling nonsense into the thread to confuse, obfuscate, and otherwise muddy the waters.

Stop moving the goal posts, answer the questions you have avoided, and stop claiming to know what our argument/stance is on the issues. The ironic thing is, you make more assumptions than we do, yet you claim infallible logic.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by InSpiteOf]

I guess the words "remarkable show of faith" might describe EW86's stance here.

Over here cockpits thread he was claiming the DEARTH of evidence was incontravertible proof, now he's saying the mountain of evidence is proof.

EW, video edited by CA's production company is not proof. Proof would be the complete, unedited videos. ALL of them.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
EW, video edited by CA's production company is not proof. Proof would be the complete, unedited videos. ALL of them.

BINGO! We've been saying the same thing for over 100 pages of this thread!

His reply is often the same, they have been edited for flow, and even to remove "distractions from the main event" but no editing has occured that might just blur the lines between fact and fiction. Yet another assumption, one that flies in the face of probability.

EW, once again you need to be reminded that Criss Angel is an Illusionist. Most illusions use props, and the idea of props are that they are hidden, obscured from view, so we can't see them. It would be rather silly of him to leave all the props on display for us to catch wouldn't it? This is why we cannot show you proof of props, because Mr Angel edits them out, or is filmed from desired angles.

We've shown you proof he says he does alot of his own editing, and is exec producer, creator and director of MF. His employees are on his payroll.

We've shown you proof of some spectators saying they were told told how the trick worked, and to go along with it, acting amazed. If you pay close attention there is no proof that the looks of astonshment, and applause is a direct reaction to the stunt. The crowd cheers, and can look as if they are cheering what he just did, when for all we know that cheering was just him showing up on set in front of his anxious fanbase, before he performed his stunt.

I will agree sometimes the reactions seem very real, but other times they are obviously faked. If you can't pick up on this, you are very easily fooled. You take the word of the audience above CA himself, who has said most of what he does is BS.

He has enough money to pay for exclusive use of illusions, so "no other human can do them".

Have you got yourself a television yet? You'd said you didn't have TV service, and watch all of CA on youtube's degraded quality. You're hardly in a position to judge, when you watch snippets of film, on a small screen with poor quality.

reply to post by eyewitness86


And you are not being rational. You see something on TV, and think "oh wow! it's true!". That is about as naive as you can get. Just because someone or something says they are legit doesn't automatically make it true, no matter how "cool" it would be, or how much you want it to be true.

Sorry. You're showing the critical thinking of a 9-year-old.

Originally posted by keymaster
This thread has proven only one thing to me. That all it takes is one illusionist and pretty soon you have a religion. Turn a little water into wine. Walk across water. Stretch out some bread and fish. Levitate across a golf course.

Just wait for CA's newest trick, curing blindness and healing lepers.

That is precisely how Christianity began as well as many other religions throughout the world.

Which doesn't make it any less real for those who have experienced miracles of telekinesis and healing, in ANY faith.

Moreover, the point should also be made that just because someone has impressive Gifts of the Spirit does not make him or her out to be an insightful spiritual teacher.

Criss Angel sucks in the spiritual illumination department.

Great showman...lousy metaphysician.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by alienstar
There is noway im sifting through 127 pages of this.but did they ever figure how criss angel levitates?

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 18-6-2008 by elevatedone]

SO, you do not accept film or eyewitness testimony...so what else is new? You NEVER discuss the fact that Criss is not the only human being with money...and money is always there for a profit..meaning if another illusionist was able to top Criss feats he would have no trouble finding money. If it is all props, then WHERE ARE THEY? And WHY has NOT ONE OTHER person topped Criss? Answer that please. Do NOT tell me that only Criss has enough money for invisible props, please...don't get silly.

Since we cannot get Criss to turn over all of the film ever taken then of course the Deniers have a convenient, albeit phony, excuse for not replying intelligently. WE DEMAND ALL the film...blah blah blah...your demands are spurious and silly. There are thousands of witnesses ...NONE of whwom have ever alleged a payoff...NONE of whom has ever shown a paper they signed for Criss....NEVER a shred of proof....all you Deniers have is FAITH that you know all there ios about all realms..and that is a pretty staggering assumption on your part.

I am not going to get back into this in detail...the same people who swallow the 9-11 official story will deny reality that does not fit their preconceived notions, and THAT is what this is all about. Criss has NEVER been topped...or replicated..and the excuses the Deniers give for this is beyond crazy..all of the Denier excuses are paper thin and show the utter LACK of proof.

As far as another thread totally unrelated goes...where a total lack of proof means soimething....I guess I should drop down to a second grade level so some can comprehend this: At times a lack of substance has great meaning, like it does when the dog in Sherlock Holmes story does NOT bark...get it? At other times an overwhelming amount of evidence shows the facts despite the drones ignoring it, as in this case.

Since Criss is the ONLY human being to do what he does....and since NOT ONE OTHER person has ever accomplished the same thing WITH props....why do the Deniers persist? because of a condition of psychological denial..and I have gone into this before...naturally the Deniers refuse to admit they are in that group..but they are.

WHY hasn't another ' illusionist ' simply repeated the Criss events WITH props so we can all see how it was done? Huh? Answer that. If you say that it is because no one else has any money then you are a Denier thru and thru....there is ALWAYS money in Vegas for a breakthru and if anyone could top Criss they would...but they cannot, because no matter how many props you buy and no matter how many employees you have, you simply cannot fake a daytime levitation in public and keep the secret for long....the secret is that Criss needs no props for some levitations, period.

I know that you Deniers will scoff and laugh and imagine all sorts of far out and ridiculous angles that MIGHT account for what is seen, but in the end what do you have? Nothing...not one shred of actual proof. We present video and of course you say it is all tricked...then the witnesses say what they see, and of course you say it is because they are allk paid off and loyal forever...do you really believe that people would remain loyal forever for an illusionist? Hmmm, an average Denier just might, and that tells us all we need to know about the mindset of the Denier.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
SO, you do not accept film or eyewitness testimony...so what else is new?

And you don't acknowledge that video made by CA's production company is not valid proof of super human abilities. You are correct.....Nothing is new.

Give it a rest EW, you are not swaying anyone with your weak attempt at countering our numerous arguements. There has NEVER (like the caps?) been an independent filming of any of CA's levitations by an outside news source. The supposed "fan" videos have been through the CA production team's vetting so they are not independent.

reply to post by eyewitness86


You either suffer from a terrible memory or your just a broken record. Either way, everything you asked in your post has been answered in the last 127 pages at least a dozen times. Have fun looking them up, I'm threw with you. Talking to you is like talking to a bucket of hair. The bucket doesn't learn anything and you look stupid.

Of course Criss is not the ONLY person who has alot of money. And yes there are other Illlusionists out there. The point you fail to see is that in order for another magician to showcase his feats to us, he needs to have the same opportunities CA has, ie: a television show. That's how the entertainment industry works. CA was offered the time slot on A&E, and it became a big hit. Any inventor of an illusion is going to sell it to CA, not some person nobody knows, or will ever see.

Pavil mentions a good point, as far as the news filming him. Let's assume he's already done the Lake Mead walk on water for season 4. It was mistakingly reported it would be live (that would have been great wouldn't it?). None of us saw this on the news, and never will. I even recall finding you a video on youtube of a man - a human - doing a lake walk, but no-one really knows about it, because this guy doesn't have a show on TV. The media is in charge of what we see and find out about. If CA didn't have his TV shows and specials, we woudn't know what he was up to either.

You don't appear to be able to grasp the idea that he "can do what no other human can do", simply because he's the only one we get to see doing this stuff. You also fall for CA saying this about himself all the time. He always uses that line.

If anyone signed agreements with Angel, then they are bound to remain silent. Now supposing a fan was to go see CA do one of his stunts, and discovers it's pretty much what we've been arguing on here, that it's all faked. Would they come online and report all the secrets? No. Why? Because most of whom get to be at his stunts are die-hard fans, in love with him, and feel a sense of loyalty towards him. Why do you think he calls his fans "loyals". It's to give them the mindset to live up to the title he bestows on them. About all I've managed to get out of these fans, is that he apparantly tells them at the stunt that what he did was a faked illusion and not to take it seriously, although a few (like you) do.

I would also suggest, that CA has enough power to make exclusive deals that these Vegas investors don't negotiate with other magicians. Much like the way big businesses operate, which is another thing you aren't savvy enough to comprehend. Secrets and deals are kept and made all the time, and those knowing secrets aren't inclined to divulge them to anyone, esp if the secrets are their bread and butter.

The point is, what's to tell? "Breaking News: It's been discovered that Criss Angel has been faking levitations. Authorities found a warehouse full of props".

[edit on 18-6-2008 by violet]

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Talking to you is like talking to a bucket of hair. The bucket doesn't learn anything and you look stupid.

Is that some proverb from Canada, or did you just make that up?

reply to post by pavil


I have a lot of family in the Northern parts of Ontario, if I picked that saying up anywhere, its from them. I thought it applied well to this scenario.

reply to post by InSpiteOf


You must include more of them then!

Originally posted by eyewitness86do you really believe that people would remain loyal forever for an illusionist?

Having read through your last several posts, I really do believe that there are people who will remain loyal forever to an illusionist....

Originally posted by eyewitness86
SO, you do not accept film or eyewitness testimony...

I want you, EW, to read your own words again.

I am not going to get back into this in detail...the same people who swallow the 9-11 official story will deny reality that does not fit their preconceived notions, and THAT is what this is all about.

Are you reading your words, EW?

Why is it that you saw September 11 happen LIVE on tv and say that's fake, yet Criss Angel's PRE-RECORDED tricks are real?

Criss has NEVER been topped...or replicated..

Neither has September 11.

and the excuses the Deniers give for this is beyond crazy..all of the Denier excuses are paper thin and show the utter LACK of proof.

Do I really have to continue with this comparison?

As far as another thread totally unrelated goes...where a total lack of proof means soimething....I guess I should drop down to a second grade level so some can comprehend this: At times a lack of substance has great meaning, like it does when the dog in Sherlock Holmes story does NOT bark...get it?

Do you actually know which Sherlock Holmes story that is? Or is just a handy factoid you remember from another debate by someone else? In the Three Investigators there was a cat that didn't react to a "ghost" and that was proof that the ghost wasn't real.

If you're going to quote Holmes (or Conan-Doyle), then I suggest you try this one: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

At other times an overwhelming amount of evidence shows the facts despite the drones ignoring it, as in this case.

Except that the cases are almost exactly the same. There is an overwhelming amount of video evidence for September 11. Why is it any different to the video “evidence” for Criss Angel?

Since Criss is the ONLY human being to do what he does....and since NOT ONE OTHER person has ever accomplished the same thing WITH props....why do the Deniers persist?

Because Criss is a professional. He earns money from what he does. If he could really do what he says, he wouldn't be doing it in a situation where it is commercially controlled. He'd be doing it for free in Central Park. He'd probably have a pretty spiffy red-and-blue costume (possibly minus the jocks), too. Although he might need to go into the gym for the last bit to work properly, he's a bit thin.

because of a condition of psychological denial..and I have gone into this before...naturally the Deniers refuse to admit they are in that group..but they are.

WHY hasn't another ' illusionist ' simply repeated the Criss events WITH props so we can all see how it was done? Huh? Answer that.

Actually, I'm just waiting for Mitch Pileggi to host the special. I always like the Mexican wrestling mask the magician wore...

If you say that it is because no one else has any money then you are a Denier thru and thru....there is ALWAYS money in Vegas for a breakthru and if anyone could top Criss they would...but they cannot, because no matter how many props you buy and no matter how many employees you have, you simply cannot fake a daytime levitation in public and keep the secret for long....the secret is that Criss needs no props for some levitations, period.

Careful, EW, you're skating on thin ice there, I point you to these rather severe instructions...

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

strict instructions for use

I know that you Deniers will scoff and laugh and imagine all sorts of far out and ridiculous angles that MIGHT account for what is seen, but in the end what do you have? Nothing...not one shred of actual proof.

Sounds a bit like the four non-existent hijackings that couldn’t have occurred. What was your far out explanation? Couldn’t possibly hijack four planes simultaneously? No-one has ever attempted to physically take control of a plane? Pilots wouldn’t give in to hijacker’s demands? Can’t break the cockpit door down?

When proof was provided that there were precedents for all of them, you dismissed them as meaningless. “Just because it was possible once, didn’t make it possible again” or something very similar.

We present video and of course you say it is all tricked...then the witnesses say what they see, and of course you say it is because they are all paid off and loyal forever...do you really believe that people would remain loyal forever for an illusionist? Hmmm, an average Denier just might, and that tells us all we need to know about the mindset of the Denier.

Please, please, please re-read your last statement.

YOU are not presenting video, Criss Angel is. Video which he paid for. Video which he has editorial control over. Video whose creation you were not present for.

To go back to my original post about “the fastest metamorphosis ever attempted” (an dhow much I hated it), did you notice how the one thing the woman was never asked about was how it was done? She was part of the trick. Why didn’t they ask her to explain how it was done by Criss’ amazing, deity-like powers of transformation and metamorphosis?

Now, what was that about “average” people and loyalties? An “average” (in terms of the quality (or lack thereof) of discernment, I guess, as opposed to representative member of the whole group) adherent of an illusionist might remain loyal forever...

But I’d like to meet this Deniér fellow, French, is he?