criss angel discussion...

I found this a few days ago and hesitated posting it. Didn't really want to copy from another person's message ...

So here it is: Crowd reactions and secrecy agreements.

The Girl and the Blanket

"My sisters friend appears in an episode in which she gives him a hand made "angel" symbol blanket. In the episode she is with a crowd in a park and they cause him to float off the ground.(he also used the blaket to vanish himself on a later episode) Whe she returned from her trip, she was disappointed, because everyone there was told how it worked and made to sign a secrecy agreement. She was there for 4 days of filming, and had to signn 4 agreemets. She said most of the stuff he does the crowds in on.(big shock)."

Source

Incidentally, Banacek posts on that forum on occasion ..

[edit on 21-2-2008 by violet]

Double post ..sorry

[edit on 21-2-2008 by violet]

reply to post by dave420



It was`nt actually D.C. that took out the patent on this, but John Gaughan who actually designed the D.C. walking through the Great Wall Of China Illusion amongst many others, a great guy, but it caused a great deal of trouble when he took out this particular patent.

reply to post by violet



Great find, now I suppose the true believers here will discredit them. The game is almsot over eyewitness................


BTW, the magiccafe forum is a very good site for magical stuff. I have been pokeing around there but haven't found much new.





[edit on 21-2-2008 by pavil]

reply to post by pavil


You would need to post 50 replys to actually gain inside info here, I am sure that you could manage that!

" My sister's friend said that ".. That is a textbook definition of hearsay.

You call that a ' nice find' ? That was posted on a site that is chock full of deniers and wannabe deniers, thats all!! What a joke! Kids posting on a magic forum discussing the same old nonsense. That is NOT proof. It is not an actual witness who has been paid to lie and ignore props. It is NOT a copy of the alleged disclosure agreement ( surely no one with any sense would sign a legally binding document and not retain a copy??).

It is NOT anything but another case of ' hey, my brother saw a guy who said that his uncles cousin saw another guy who said that Criss Angel made everyone agree to lie forever and everyone always obeys..ain't it strange the effects that guy has?" They will believe that before they will believe that Criss can simply levitate at certain times and for brief periods, as have many thru history. Go figure.

Third, fourth hand alleged he said she said sillines cannot be taken seriously. If that is all the proof you have that Criss cannot levitate then give up now and save what little dignity that remains after over a hundred pages of constant inability to prove in any substantial and conclusive, or even likley, way..that Criss could have used props in the high levitations.

Bottom line: If this is your best shot,a tactical retreat, at the very least, would be advisable lest the few remaining people willing to suspend all rational approached to determining reality and odds flee to our side where at least we have unrefuted evidence and a total lack of evidence to the contrary of our claims.We hold the high ground: YOU claim that what is seen is NOT what it is, yet have offered no proof of that which convinces and settles the matter. You accuse of all manner of conspiracy and cheating and fraud and paid silence and invisible props....yet not one shdred of hard proof is ever presented..only rumors, whispers, sister's friends....how telling.

reply to post by ringing


good point. The believers keep asking us to speculate about what others want to do and thats just silly. Why don't we stick to facts? Of course they don't want to do that as their argument simply falls apart. They cannot prove their side at all but refuse to accept any evidence that does prove the contrary leaving this discussion pointless yet funny.

Originally posted by dave420
All it means is they have to pay some folks off or have stooges, and edit accordingly. Occam's razor suggests it is just trickery, and until he proves himself in a scientific test, he's no more magic than a sandwich.

Occams razor suggests that something else if afoot precisely because no one else anywhere is doing what Criss Angel is doing - with or without witnesses

Although some scientific testing can be beneficial (if it applies), one does not always need it in order to make a sound conclusion based on deductive and inductive reasoning, and observation.

Then there is that problem of Chi not registering with any instruments. One cannot measure Prana or Chi directly, only the effect that it has on people and objects. This constituting one of the limitations of parapsychology.

Originally posted by dave420
We never get to see the big picture with Criss Angel's stuff. Everything is tightly choreographed, and we've even seen how he does some of his tricks (such as the disappearing go-kart). If he's that great, why does he need the assistance of a bit of wall to make an "illusion" - surely he could just keep flying around and scaring people.

Tight choreography only works when there are no witnesses.

Show us some street magic videos of people who are doing what Criss Angel does with witnesses - specifically high levitations - and you have a strong viewpoint to offer instead of no case at all

reply to post by eyewitness86


Among other things eyewitness, you are very predictable. Sometimes I almost think your a a CA "bot".


Granted, it is second hand knowledge. However they have given us two pieces to check the video record against. They said the girl was the one giving the blanket to CA and that later she is in the crowd of the Park girl levitation video.

Should be pretty easy to verfiy that one way or the other. CA's "the loyal" or whatever they are called are the ones who get to see most of CA's small crowd feats. It doesn't bother you that now we have two incidences of those most loyal of fans being disillusioned with Mr. Angel after witnesses his tricks from the crowd live?

You are trully hopeless, nothing will sway you, of that I have no doubt.

I still see no "invisible wires" with DC's levitation, he must have the "gift" too. Prove to me other wise.

Actually, We flew Jay Sankey in for 2 days and Jay created 40 effects for us on Mindfreak and we used around 12 of them. Jay is a great thinker, and a greater guy.

This is from Gerard a MindFreak Consultant posted on The Magic Cafe

Well, after reading the last, most recent few pages, I think it's time to remind some people that Criss Angel is a performer, a 'magician'...or some prefer, illusionist. I actually enjoy his performances, being a bit of an amateur student of magic some years ago..the art of the illusion should be enjoyed. Don't think calling any illusionist a fake or charlatan understands the point of the entertainment aspect of what they do.

Lance Burton, Penn and Teller, Siegfield and Roy...just three acts that pop into my head, from Vegas, besides Criss. Do you all realize that in their 'profession' it is sometimes about one-upsmanship...either creating a new illusion to impress your colleagues, or modifying a tried and true older 'trick' in a new and creative way. Penn and Teller do the 'magic bullet' piece, guess they still do in Vegas, I saw it years ago in DC...the point is, everyone knows that Penn doesn't catch the bullet in his mouth! It's the entertainment value that matters.

Magicians are, mostly, bound by a 'code' of sorts...break that code and you are ostracized. Stealing or duplicating another's work is breaking the code....

reply to post by pavil

I enjoy reading that forum!

reply to post by eyewitness86


Although that particular post could have been a child, that board seems to consist mostly of adults and people who are magicians or are interested in magic etc.

Actually, EW I was hoping you'd poke around the place, see things from another perspective, get some ideas! Obviously you haven't because you call it a kiddy board. It shows you don't bother to do any research about which you're discussing here.

You know, none of your posts ever include links. Have you used the hyperlink feature in replies at ATS yet? It looks like a little globe! I"ll telll you why you've never used it, because you have nothing to show and are too lazy to look. You just sit back in your highchair banging your little spoon and demand we find it for you. Then we find it and it's not good enough. You spit it out before even tasting it.

Anyways, no, it wasn't proof of a PAID witness. Who cares if they're paid, why must they be paid to clam up all the time with you?

It wasn't proof about the HIGH levitations, it was to show the crowd:
learns how the trick is done
They sign agreements
The crowd's is in on it









[edit on 22-2-2008 by violet]

This is getting ridiculous. People actually believe this guy is for real. Even though he performs tricks other people do, and explains how he does them to folks. Clearly those who think he's real are not looking at the facts. I feel sorry for you believers, as anyone can claim anything and you'll clearly believe it until someone else proves it's false, instead of doing the logical thing and being skeptical until it's proven true.

Originally posted by dave420
This is getting ridiculous. People actually believe this guy is for real.

Yes, there are are indeed REAL PEOPLE out there who use telekinesis in their acts and make lots of money because of it.

Originally posted by dave420
Even though he performs tricks other people do, and explains how he does them to folks.

You need to do more research on the topic and issue in general.

He only explains SOME of his acts. Like, for example, his low level levitations. He NEVER explains his high levitations and teleportations.

Originally posted by dave420
Clearly those who think he's real are not looking at the facts.

Here are the FACTS:

1. No one anywhere can even duplicate, much less surpass, Criss Angel's feats of high levitation.

This doesn't make him out to be a messianic figure or god, just someone with a uniquely powerful Gift of Prana or Chi.

2. No one anywhere does the kind of street magic, with an abundance of witnesses, that Criss Angel does.

David Blaine, Cyril Takayama, Ramana, Derren Brown, and Ehud Segev (whom you probably know little about since you never did any research) come close, as they also have Gifts. But their Gifts are not as powerful as that of Criss Angel. Which is why you don't see them flying around a golf course or over a hotel or between two buildings - with lots of witnesses for verification - like Criss Angel does

If it is all just an illusion, they how come no one else is doing it?

How come no one else is racking in the cash that Criss Angel is?

How come Criss Angel has more television airtime than any mentalist or magician in history?

????

The brain is a wonderful tool for ascertaining the truth

I suggest you discard your prejudice and start using it.

Sept. 24 world premiere of Cirque du Soleil in the Luxor

Look for a tornado to envelop the theater and for levitation that goes further than any magician has ever achieved in the history of magic

CA: Consider a tornado that will come out of my mouth and wrap around the theater! You will see the things that you see me do on Mindfreak, so to all those skeptics and naysayers that say all those things can’t be done live I challenge them to come and see my live show and you will see everywhere the most insane demonstration of illusions and connect on an emotional journey with me within the show

Also: 5th Season of Mindfreak signed on now

Just won Magician of the Year for the fourth time—and next year he’ll be presented with the Magician of the Decade award.

Full article and Interview with Robin Leach

[edit on 22-2-2008 by violet]

reply to post by Paul_Richard


Until Criss Angel performs his feats under clinical trials, he's not genuine. Put him in a perspex box, and let him fly around. Heck, James Randi will give him $1m if he does, which Criss Angel can give to charity. Why doesn't he do that? Does he hate dying kids? That's the only reason I can think of for someone who can fly to not do it to help such a charity. Care to explain that one?

As for saying Derren Brown has a gift, well, that's hilarious, as he states he doesn't. He has a good knack at reading people and using language to impart information and suggestions. Just normal psychology, not Peter Venkman "parapsychology". He's admitted it, and never pretended to have any other ability. The reason he doesn't fly around is his illusions are mind-based, not some overly-dramatic Emo guy trying to be moody and mysterious.

This discussion is becoming a joke. I suppose I have to prove to you Santa Claus doesn't exist, because I assume you've seen someone who looks like him on TV, and possibly even real life, and for your mind that is enough for him to be real.

It's up to someone to prove he's legitimate for him to become legitimate. Otherwise anyone can claim anything and until it's debunked it's the truth. Please.

Either Criss Angel is merely a guy performing Copperfield-esque illusions, or he's a hitherto-unknown superhuman who's squandering his world-changing powers for a cheap TV show.

Hint: don't use unproven concepts like Chi (Qi) to try to prove something else unproven. It's logically flawed from the outset, and only serves to discredit your position, not anyone else's.

Originally posted by dave420
Until Criss Angel performs his feats under clinical trials, he's not genuine.

Not true.

That's like a police officer dismissing someone who claims to have been mugged because the mugger isn't around to be tested and to confirm what had happened.

What we have to work with is the effect, not the cause, that can be measured.

You really are ignorant about the subtle energies, aren't you?

Do you ever do any research before you post an argument about something controversial?

Or do you always shoot from the hip?

Uri Geller and Matthew Manning performed under strict laboratory conditions in 1974 and the results pointed to them having genuine psychokinetic ability

Since you probably don't know it: psychokinetic or PK and telekinetic or TK mean the same thing.

Regardless, Prana/Chi/Ki cannot be measured with physical instruments, as is clearly shown in the long documentary of John Chang, the Qigong practitioner.

We are not here to rehash the ignorance and prejudice of others, but to explore and reveal the answers.

Originally posted by dave420
Put him in a perspex box, and let him fly around.

Criss Angel is not a spiritual teacher. He is not interested in what you want him to do. He is only interested in staying rich, getting more rich, and being a celebrity. He could care less about your suggestion that his Gift of Prana or Chi should be tested under laboratory conditions.

Originally posted by dave420
Heck, James Randi will give him $1m if he does...

Criss Angel could give James Randi that one million dollars, as he is much wealthier by comparison.

When was the last time you saw James Randi with his own international television show that was also out on DVD?

I rest my case.

Originally posted by dave420
...which Criss Angel can give to charity. Why doesn't he do that?

Because Criss Angel doesn't live up to your standards of what YOU THINK he should do and how he should conduct himself.

Originally posted by dave420
Does he hate dying kids?

I don't see why he would.

After all, they can get their parents to buy his DVD.

Originally posted by dave420
That's the only reason I can think of for someone who can fly to not do it to help such a charity. Care to explain that one?

You need to do more research on people who have Gifts of the Spirit. They are not as noble as you think.

Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble on this issue, but telekinetics are usually not spiritually focused.

Originally posted by dave420
As for saying Derren Brown has a gift, well, that's hilarious, as he states he doesn't.

You are unbelievably naive.

Since Derren Brown says so then you are hooked line and sinker into believing it.

So sad.

Originally posted by dave420
He has a good knack at reading people and using language to impart information and suggestions. Just normal psychology, not Peter Venkman "parapsychology". He's admitted it, and never pretended to have any other ability. The reason he doesn't fly around is his illusions are mind-based, not some overly-dramatic Emo guy trying to be moody and mysterious.

Derren Brown doesn't fly around like Criss Angel does because he doesn't have the same level of energy with which to perform those stunts.

If we were to accept your faulty line of reasoning, then Derren Brown should be able to use "normal psychology" to manipulate us into thinking he can levitate high in the air.

Moreover, one cannot manipulate someone into doubling over in pain from a touchless Chi punch without extensive hypnotic suggestions AND their willing participation. Most people will not willingly put themselves in pain like that. Not unless they were insane.

I don't have any reason to believe that the victim in the above video of Derren Brown was insane. Do you?

Originally posted by dave420
This discussion is becoming a joke.

Feel free to leave at any time when you find the heat of truth to be too hot to handle.

DENY IGNORANCE & MANIPULATION

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Paul_Richard

Until Criss Angel performs his feats under clinical trials, he's not genuine. Put him in a perspex box, and let him fly around. Heck, James Randi will give him $1m if he does, which Criss Angel can give to charity. Why doesn't he do that? Does he hate dying kids? That's the only reason I can think of for someone who can fly to not do it to help such a charity. Care to explain that one?

Oh my god this is awesome !!!

I didn't know Criss Angel is a selfish kid hater ?!?!?
Does he hate cancer patients too?
I wonder if he also goes to the animal shelter to watch them put puppies to sleep???

How selfish he must be to not use his magical abilities to help people. You're right, 1 million could do a lot of good including feeding starving children which he also apparently hates !!!

You have posted one of the best responses I have seen on this thread so GOOD JOB !!!!!!

[edit on 22-2-2008 by jfj123]

[edit on 22-2-2008 by jfj123]

I thought it pointed out the obvious flaw in the "ooh he's so for real!" camp's argument. Either he's a fake, or he's the biggest douche in the universe.