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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Feb, 17 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by eyewitness86
 


You cite 3 people in the world that can levitate. Nobody else can. Just curious but how do you explain the fact that grand masters who have been studying and teaching martial arts/Qigong for decades, can't levitate like good ole criss? Or buddhist monks that have devoted their lives to their teachings and can perform incredible feats, still can't levitate? So good ole cris is better then all of em huh?




posted on Feb, 17 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by pavil
 


Oh puleeeeze.. NOT mounted to the building ? Was it hanging from the same sky hook that Criss was? Give us a break. What kind of contraption that would allow Criss to levitate in bright light in full view of the public would be suspended in the air? Was an invisible helicopter hovering with lights off above Criss to support the contraption thaqt is not attched to the Hotel? My God, have you no shame?



posted on Feb, 17 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by eyewitness86
 


You can have something sitting on an object and not attached to it. Sure they are in contact, but are not joined together. I know, me just disecting words again. Nevertheless, I stand by all of my statements.



posted on Feb, 17 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by eyewitness86
 


Your question about closeup events versus stage events, Im not sure what your implying I said. Of course they're different versus TV (if that's what you meant). It's alot harder to perform live, esp on stage, because you only get one take. Surely you can agree with that?

This is mostly a discussion about his big feats or illusions. The ones that are so grande, as to have one question is it real or an illusion. Those are the ones I say aren't real, and you say are. We're not talking about his street magic and smaller stunts.

Some (not all) magicians complaining is a known fact and please don't blame me or accuse me of making that up. Criss has talked about that himself. He knows he is accused of using props, lying, camera tricks and CGI, he even makes jokes about it. One of those bonus episodes, forget which one, he featured the youtube videos of that guy called "the real criss angel" who does parodies of CA. The vids make fun of Criss using camera tricks & props and CA had no problem showing that on his MF show. Supply links? Find them yourself for a change.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by violet]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by pavil
 

Good find Pavil!



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 04:35 AM
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Eyewitness, I'm tired of your insults. I try to be fair and have refrained from calling you dillusional. My claims are too outrageous and far-fetched to believe? My claim is that an ILLUSIONIST IS DOING ILLUSIONS. Simple as that. You can pat yourself on the back all you want thinking I'm in a rabbit hole and sitting here in "shreds" if that makes you feel better.

Another thing you keep doing is to take the whole bundle of comments made by all deniers and lump them all on me, implying they originated from me alone. Many of us share the same feelings and beliefs, but we also differ in some of our view and comments.

Being paid to shutup is your idea as to why no-one tells.

You think that if he's doing a feat and had to use something other than his "gift" to accomplish it, that countles others had to know and see it, and they should be racing to the nearest publisher to reveal all the details. Because no-one has done this as of yet, you say it proves either there is nothing to reveal, or there is and they were paid to keep silent. It proves neither.

You see no props, therefore none were used. Even though it's essential props are to be obscured from view, you believe there is no way or reason they would be hidden.

Your senseless contention is: Criss uses props for some stunts to give the illusion he is doing an illusion, so when he does one for real, you will be fooled into thinking it's an illusion.

I hope to get a chance to see his Live Cirque Show and I don't expect to be disappointed. I don't expect to see props either.

BTW I looked around and found one man Andre Kole is said to have levitated in front of 400 people, no visible props. No video to check, I could only find one of him walking on water on youtube. Find the links yourself. I'm not interested in finding another levitating human, you are, so you can check it out and don't blame me if it's a crap example. I just skimmed over it breifly. I'm not interested in a discussion about it, let's put it that way.

Incidentally, others are doing some of CA's stunts. Not levitations though. His body suspension was attempted recently (done with 2 hooks) in Vegas (Matt Zane) and last week a teenager broke his straitjacket escape record.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by violet
 



Andre Kole is big time in the buisness, well respected, yet relativly obscure to many. He is well respected among Magicians, who do not worry about his religeous beliefs, just his genius. If you compare C.A. walking on water, with Andre, you will realise who C.A. bought it from, another one bites the dust.


[edit on 18-2-2008 by Qwenn]

[edit on 18-2-2008 by Qwenn]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by violet
 


If you believe that the average person would accept the far out guessing that you call ' proof ', then in my opinion you must be delusional. How could anyone with absolutely no proof that props exist be comfortable in that belief? Pavil speculates that some contraption was 'attached to but not touching ' the Luxor, and you wonder why we call you deniers. Unreal.

It seems even the most elementary logic becomes a convoluted mass of silliness when exposed to denier logic. Of course Pavil cannot sktch out or describe what kind of device could have been over the luxor, attached to the Luxor, but not touvhing the Luxor!! I know, they built a huge scaffolding system all around the hotel that was invisible to the human eye, and Criss ws hung from that with invisible wires..right? got a better idea? NO, you don't!! Thats why we keep hearing these silly imaginings instead of a LIKELY way it was done.

ODDS. LIKELY. PROBABLE. Study these terms for a while and then come back with some better excuses; so far the ones I have seen are insulting to an logical thinker. Desperate deniers, clutching at straws, imagining anything: They are exactly like people who slavishly believe the Bush cabal was ignorant of 9-11 and that A-rabs were responsible for the Towers turning to dust....to believe otherwise would be too much of a chore and a shock to the system to bother with.

I had a talk the other day with a wonderful man, an intelligent man...and I was telling him about a few of the true things happening in the world..and he stopped me: he said " Look, my life is so difficult right now, even if it was true, I do not want to hear it. I have anough to worry me already". That sums up the deniers creed: ignore the obvious to placate your self and your limited paradigms. That is why you have no shame asking people to accept fairy tales with zero evidence.

I am still waiting for ONE shred of REAL proof> I think it will never come and the past post on this thread will be of some denier claiming victory even though there never has been or will be any evidence of props....logic is not the deniers strong suit.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 06:33 AM
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I believe Pavil never claimed that the something needed for this was not touching the Luxor, you just read what you wanted into it, very unbiassed. He was reffering to the fact that it was not installed in a way that was invasive enough to contravine regulations. By the way, most of that float was added as extra cuts later, the actual levitation was only a tiny part of the overall production and not as high over the roof as it appears. What you see, is what you get, is an outdated concept, nowadays what you see is what they show you. I am sure there must have been a lot of people with perfect eyesight to be able to see from the distances needed, that everything was above board, even the buildings which surround the Luxor are not that close.

If the new Copperfield Ultra Levitation ever gets completed, then a few people will be in for a few MAJOR shocks, there is a good team in there with him. That is if David can pick himself up a little, I know he has not been right for some time now and there are some people who have been concerned. Hopefully things will not go from bad to worse, it would be a shame if he turned his back on it so young

[edit on 18-2-2008 by Qwenn]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86

Pavil speculates that some contraption was 'attached to but not touching ' the Luxor, and you wonder why we call you deniers. Unreal.


You don't read very well do you? All I claim is that the object is in contact with the Luxor, not mounted or attached with bolts ect ect. to it.



Of course Pavil cannot sktch out or describe what kind of device could have been over the luxor, attached to the Luxor, but not touvhing the Luxor!!

Up there at the top of the Luxor was a device that was sitting on, but not attached by bolts, screws ect to the Luxor, therefore it was on the Luxor, not part of the Luxor. Even a temporary addition/ attachement to the Luxor would have had to go through the building code enforcement department in Vegas.



Criss ws hung from that with invisible wires..right? got a better idea? NO, you don't!!


Not for this trick, wires in the high winds would have created too much sway and danger to CA. He may be daring but he's not stupid.

Those that don't look for answers, never find them. You eyewitness, believe without proof or even looking for the proof. Deny ignorance.








[edit on 18-2-2008 by pavil]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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Eyewitness.. Drop the insults and the defensive behavior you are about 2 seconds from being reported for your rudeness to multiple people in this thread. I had considered putting you on ignore, but that would be turning a blind eye to inappropriate behavior and subjecting others to further abuse at your hands for giving an opinion that you don't want to hear.

You need to start putting some more civility into your replies or I WILL report you.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by pavil
 


Pavil, you keep digging in deeper. So, now we have some kind on device or contraption that some helicoter lifted into position and plopped it down on toip of the luxor, correct? This is nuts.

If you were to place anything on a hotel, it would have to be insured and tested totally. Do you think that no permit would be needed to place some contraption on top of a major Vegas hotel even if it was ' not bolted ' to it? That crazy. What you are saying is that they would allow some kind of apparatus to be placed like a hat on the hotel, not attached, just sitting there, ready to blow off into the streets if a good gust of wind came along and crush the people below.

It is IOMPOSSIBLE to believe that. You are really reaching now, pal. To imagine a device that could cover the top of the Luxor, NOT BE SEEN, not be attached, so Criss could levitate, is silly. C'mon now. Lets not get too far out with imagination. The Luxor would NEVER aloow such a scheme. NO hotal would place themselves at risk for lawsuits just to avoid pulling a permit and allowing something to be attached. it makes NO sense.

Your answer DOES make an excellent example though of how totally crazy a denier will get to prop us their beliefs. To believe in some crazy scheme to place a cap on the hotel that is not attached, just hanging there unseen, is insane. PLEASE Pavil, give us a written description as to how this was done, or a sketch, please. I really want to see the sound mind at work. I want to know how a major Vegas hotel could avoid pulling a permit by simply allowing some contraption to be placed on the top of their hotel that was not attached ....It really is silly.

What a way to avoid responsibility? Don't want your hotel to be altered by allowing Criss props to be attached? Simple. Forget the permit!! Just tell the Criss team to rig up some kind of device that can REST on the top of the hotel!!! If THAT is not one of the most ridiculous giesses I have ever heard...Pavil, that almost tops your theory about Cyril having a super fast swimming skin diver tracking the glass bottomed boat that Cyril used in his event..that was, I thought, the height of ridiculous assumptions, but you are closing in on your old record fast.

NO HOTEL would EVER allow ANYONE to place anything on their hotel that could place them in jeopardy of a lawsuit. never. The thought of allowing some unattached device to plop down on top of the Luxor, unseen, with nothing to keep it from being blown over in a freak wind event, is nuts. it cannot happen, Id did not happen. What happened was that Criss walked up the stairs, got to the top. and levitated above the Luxor in full view of the cameras and crowds.

What lengths will you go to to deny the truth? How silly does it get? At what point does your imaginings get so far out that even YOU feel silly saying them?

A cone on the Luxor that just rests on it, but is not bolted down..because to pull a permit would mean blowing the whole deal for Criss.

Devices unseen and unattested to that allow Criss to fool us all.

PLease please Pavil, just a little more info: Tel us how this cone or contraption could be placed on the Luxor unseen? We KNOW that no hotel could ever allow an unpermitted device to be placed or attached to a hotel property..that silly. Can anyone really believe that the following took place:

Criss: Hey Hotel bosses, I want to levitate above the Luxor but I need to place a contraption up there that cannot be seen. It also cannot be permitted because some fan could check the permits and expose me if they found it. So, we have come up with a way that we can just PLACE thois contraption on your hotel, and since we will not secure it, no permit will be needed!!"

They wopuld ask him if he was on drugs. ANY addition, ALTERATION, adaptation or accessory that would in ANY way affect the safety and structural integrity of the building MUST be permitted. Pavil, where did you get the idea that no permit is needed for some kind of contraption just because no bolts are used? What makes you think that? you are GUESSING again, and as usual, you are dead wrong. a permit WOULD be demanded, ESPECIALLY for some device that would NOT be attached!!

Your imagination far exceeds your research or common sense. Sorry, to think that the Luxor would or could go along with a hairbrained svheme like you propose is just impossible. I have an idea!!

P[avil please copy and paste the part of the Las Vegas building codes that ALLOW the placement of such devices and contraptions on public buildings WITHOUT A PERMIT merely because they are not bolted on. This should be fun. Waiting for that I will get grayer than I am now.

There is NO exception for contraptions that are not attched, thats nuts. What would stop any hotel from hanging any amount of contraptions and stuff all over theor hotels? All they have to do is leave the securing hardware off and that makes it Ok, right? You see how insane it gets?

Pavil, you keep going down instead of up. I had high hopes for you as you seemed to be at least willing to see things logically, but if you really believe that the Luxor had an unpermitted contraption hanging from the roof that accounts for Crfiss event, you are showing a desperation bordering on the insulting to our intelligence. Surely you can do better than this: if not it is time you cam over to our side and some common sense and odds that do not shoot to the moon. At least then your foes would have no evidence or ideas that make any sense!!



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by NephraTari
 


If I had crossed the line a Mod would already have talked to me. If you want to be a Mod, go apply. If you want to ' report me ' then go ahead. If Pavil needs YOU to protect him from my beliefs and obervation, I am sure he can say so, Are you his mommy? Or just another denier who cannot handle the heat of being outed as irrational and shallow?

Keep your warnings and bluff to yourself; stick to the topic or it will be YOU that gets a message from a Mod, not me. Have a nice day .



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86

Pavil, you keep digging in deeper. So, now we have some kind on device or contraption that some helicoter lifted into position and plopped it down on toip of the luxor, correct? This is nuts.


No, it can be brought up and assembled in a normal fashion.



If you were to place anything on a hotel, it would have to be insured and tested totally. Do you think that no permit would be needed to place some contraption on top of a major Vegas hotel even if it was ' not bolted ' to it? That crazy. What you are saying is that they would allow some kind of apparatus to be placed like a hat on the hotel, not attached, just sitting there, ready to blow off into the streets if a good gust of wind came along and crush the people below.


No, it is inside the portion of the Luxor that CA levitates from. there was no danger to the public, save for CA accidentally falling. No permit would be necessary to put an object up near the top of the Luxor if it was not a temporary or permanent addition to the Luxor. Luxor management would have had to ok it of course.




It is IOMPOSSIBLE to believe that. You are really reaching now, pal. To imagine a device that could cover the top of the Luxor, NOT BE SEEN, not be attached, so Criss could levitate, is silly. C'mon now. Lets not get too far out with imagination. The Luxor would NEVER aloow such a scheme. NO hotal would place themselves at risk for lawsuits just to avoid pulling a permit and allowing something to be attached. it makes NO sense.
You think it is that. Again the object was not on top of the Luxor, just inside, near the top where CA levitates from.

Why wouldn't the Luxor ok it? They stand to make millions off of their relationship with Criss Angel. I am sure Criss Angel had the appropriate amount of insurance coverage and I am sure it was probably over 10 Million dollars at the very least. I have to get 2 Million of coverage just to have a Cub Scout function at a local Mall. Big corporations make sure they are shielded from any monetary damage from events.




To believe in some crazy scheme to place a cap on the hotel that is not attached, just hanging there unseen, is insane. PLEASE Pavil, give us a written description as to how this was done, or a sketch, please. I really want to see the sound mind at work. I want to know how a major Vegas hotel could avoid pulling a permit by simply allowing some contraption to be placed on the top of their hotel that was not attached ....It really is silly.


I never said it was ontop of the Luxor on the outside, why do you insist that I have said that. The object in question is very close to the top of the Luxor in the area from whence CA levitates. I have given you enough information to find out, it is up to you to look for it. They would not have to pull a permit and even had they pulled a permit, there is no way of checking unless you have the permit number and other info. I have researched that, have you?



What a way to avoid responsibility? Don't want your hotel to be altered by allowing Criss props to be attached? Simple. Forget the permit!! Just tell the Criss team to rig up some kind of device that can REST on the top of the hotel!!! If THAT is not one of the most ridiculous giesses I have ever heard...Pavil, that almost tops your theory about Cyril having a super fast swimming skin diver tracking the glass bottomed boat that Cyril used in his event..that was, I thought, the height of ridiculous assumptions, but you are closing in on your old record fast.

Cyril didn't have a super fast swimmer, just a diver hanging on very near where the effect took place. Why do you think it took the Mindfreak team almost the entire season to figure out how to do this?. They couldn't use the method that had previously to "levitate", and couldn't mount objects to the Luxor. Thus they had to find a way to avoid mounting anything to the building proper that would trigger a permit pull. It took them some time but they found a solution.




NO HOTEL would EVER allow ANYONE to place anything on their hotel that could place them in jeopardy of a lawsuit. never. The thought of allowing some unattached device to plop down on top of the Luxor, unseen, with nothing to keep it from being blown over in a freak wind event, is nuts. it cannot happen, Id did not happen. What happened was that Criss walked up the stairs, got to the top. and levitated above the Luxor in full view of the cameras and crowds.


Don't stop believing !!!!!!! Hold onto that feeling!!!. You are sounding as if you are having a collapse in your beliefe.. "IT........can't be....... There is no way..........." Please don't have a breakdown on my account.

You are wrong. What about Evil Kienievals Stunts done at Vegas hotels? Surely those could have resulted in injuries to the the property of people watching. As long as you have enough insurance, they will let you try almost anything.

[ quote] What lengths will you go to to deny the truth? How silly does it get? At what point does your imaginings get so far out that even YOU feel silly saying them? It takes alot more that what I have done here. I would have to say something like CA actually levitates!!!!




P[avil please copy and paste the part of the Las Vegas building codes that ALLOW the placement of such devices and contraptions on public buildings WITHOUT A PERMIT merely because they are not bolted on. This should be fun. Waiting for that I will get grayer than I am now.
.... Pavil, you keep going down instead of up.


Sorry to dissapoint you. Since you claim it, why don't you find it. While you are at at find me the FAA regulations on safe human levitation techniques and procedures.

Tell me for example that I would have to pull a permit to place a ladder very near the apex of the Luxor, just before the top as an example. Note here I am not saying CA used a ladder, I just use it as a reference to an object place up high on the Luxor, not attached to the Luxor.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by pavil
 



How can an addition NOT be either permenent or temporary? You amaze me. Now we have a crew that ssembles some contraption atop the luxor with NO permits, because it will be taken down later....unreal. totaly ridiculous. Show us the code exception please that alloows for this.

Each of your assumptions fails alone and in toto. No hotel could or would allow any kind of contraption to be hauled to their roof and ' set ' there, no matter how it was secured, without permits. Also, the Hotel DENIED that any such thing happened. They deny that anything at all was allowed to be there. They deny that your guesses could have any validity.

Do what I did and call the Chief of Engineering at the Luxor and have a chat; he is a nice guy and there is NO reason to believe that he is part of some conspiracy of silence mandated by the hotel to protect Criss from people like me seeking the truth. You have to imagine grand conspiracies of lying that last for years, rather than admit that Criss can levitate.

Remember, the fact that you cannot imagine a human being levitating does NOT mean that it cannot be done: Believe it or not, the rest of the world is NOT BOUND BY THE DRASTIC AND SEVERE LIMITATIONS OF YOUR IMAGINATION. !! The sooner this sinks in, the sooner you will see the truth.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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EW keeps babling that its illegal - and you need a permit

so let HIM show the Nevada building code that states you need a permit to errect a temporary work platform ontop of an hotel

because thats what it is - a temporary work lift

buildings in the UK need no special permit or anything to put remporary work access systems on the roof - even scafold etc

so please show the nevada code that says a permit is needed

PS - look up the exploits of Philippe Petit , he strung a wire between the WTC tower 01 & 02

PPS - for the ultimate in idiocy - consider EWs claim that liability and saftey issues would prevent any mechanical system being errected

i have already posted the pics of the luxor window claners who use rope access gear

but the kicker is - EW feels that the claim " i can fly , its perfectly safe " is more reasonable and

a mechanical apparatus can be tested - its limits and parrameters computed - its SWL calculated and the wind speed it can endure plus max / min operating temperature and humidity

all can be calculated with 100% certanity and the risk assessed

how do you calculate the libality / risk of a man who claims he can fly ?????????????

also - stop quoteing your alledged convesation with mr angels business partner as an impartial source

and lastly - stop lying about mr angel being up there solo - his own vid shows that at least one camera man followed him up

and while we are on the subject of working on a roof - you still have not addressed the lack of PPE - that is an libility nightmare that is legislated



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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I have already explained to EW how this could be done with the use of magnets. Quite alot of "magic" is done with the assistance of magnets.
He ignored the possiblity by saying that criss angel could not have afforded such a device.
Im sorry. Magnets are not that expensive at all. And anyone capable of doing illusions can concoct a magnetic device to assist them with their illusions.

It is done all the time.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
reply to post by violet
 
Desperate deniers, clutching at straws, imagining anything: They are exactly like people who slavishly believe the Bush cabal was ignorant of 9-11 and that A-rabs were responsible for the Towers turning to dust....to believe otherwise would be too much of a chore and a shock to the system to bother with.


How dare you suggest that I think like others on 911 or Bush. I'm not an American for one. You have no idea what my opinions are about that event, so don't assume you do. There you go again lumping everything together.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by eyewitness86
 


Your only evidence is the lack of evidence which in and of itself cannot be considered evidence.

So in other words, you're saying that since you cannot figure out how Criss does his levitation, the only answer must be that he is magic and using Chi. This is an incredible ASSUMPTION. By that same logic, anything you do not understand, must be magic. Cars must be magic, computers must be magic, etc..



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
reply to post by NephraTari
 


If I had crossed the line a Mod would already have talked to me. If you want to be a Mod, go apply. If you want to ' report me ' then go ahead. If Pavil needs YOU to protect him from my beliefs and obervation, I am sure he can say so, Are you his mommy? Or just another denier who cannot handle the heat of being outed as irrational and shallow?

Keep your warnings and bluff to yourself; stick to the topic or it will be YOU that gets a message from a Mod, not me. Have a nice day .


I'm sorry but I simply don't understand why you can't act in a civil manor? You can disagree with anyone and everyone all day without acting so rude. I've seen people do it so I know it can be done. Have you ever thought that maybe this is part of the reason that almost nobody takes you seriously? When someone presents themselves in such a childish manor, it destroys any credibility they may have.

Again feel free to express yourself but please do so in an adult, civil manor as this current attitude is destroying this thread and ruining legitimate participation.

Thanks for considering my opinions.



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