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Originally posted by soulforge
Please, please, please, to those on the left. Enlighten me.
In September, Cheney said Iraq had been "the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."
There's a new segment of society...
Pop Activists. These are people who don't know much about History, Politics, or Government, yet manage to find something to protest. A bunch of 20-somethings riled up about a cause but without a lot of facts.
Originally posted by Souljah
Are Those Questions Directed at Me?
#4. I Pledge Allegiance to the TRUTH, FREEDOM and to MYSELF.
Originally posted by Souljah
What I found Interseting is the Percentage of the Casualties and who is Responsible for them.
If you ask me, I belive that the Number is MUCH Higher then this and its probably really close to the 100.000 mentioned before.
6. Predominantly criminal killings 8,935 - 35.9%
Originally posted by IAF101
Well isnt that typical of the left wing haters, MYSELF!
Well, you are mistaken, the figures you have shown are not in anysense statistical, neither do they reperesnet any actual facts, we hear every day of the 100s of people who die due to terrorist bombings and yet that accounts for only a meger 9%!
The figure maybe higher but the fact is these terrorists are killing many more people than the Coalition forces could possibly kill, it is to them you should ask for a let up in destruction!
The coaliton forces are held accountable, if proven guilty but who holds these terrorists accountable, no one! So these are these people are the one who commit inhuman crimes, they are the ones who go into crowded areas and blow themselves up killing innocent children and women, not American troops mind you! For what? if they were truly virtuous they would attack only american bases and minimise causalty to civilians but we dont see that happening!
Go and look today! Another bomb blast in Iraq, hundreds of people died again today needlesly, how many Iraqis have the coalition killed? None!
That shows!
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
I think those of you looking to clear the US from these deaths no matter the number, should reflect back on any positions you may have taken here or elsewhere touting the unconfirmed and totally unknowable millions said to have been killed by Hussein, for I am fairly certain that you did not seek or demand proof of said numbers just as long as it made Hussein look like Iraq was deserving of a pounding.
There is no denying that all of the deaths (usual criminal activity excluded) being caused in Iraq since the first bomb landed on Iraqi soil is as a direct and undeniable result of the invasion.
Originally posted by soulforge
I just can't get my head around that idea. It's all so simplistic.
YES, Iraq is royally screwed up, but we cannot go back in time. How do we fix it? ... Impeaching Bush makes no Iraqis' life any easier.
My point on the crime figures was that, by all estimates Iraq today IS about 12 times more dangerous than the US, except for some neighborhoods in Detroit.
Originally posted by Souljah
Originally posted by IAF101
Well isnt that typical of the left wing haters, MYSELF!
So, what is wrong with That?
You dont Pledge Allegience to YOURSELF?
Originally posted by Souljah
Well Sir, the Report is Infront of You.
Why dont You accept it as it is?
Are you too Proud to Accept it?
Originally posted by Souljah
The Coalition Forces have Done their Job and the Numbers are speaking for themselves.
Originally posted by Souljah
And the Terrorists - well, if you had not Noticed YET, Iraq is on the brink of Civil War, a Civil War that was brought to these People by the Great Coalition Forces.
Originally posted by Souljah
You wanted it - now Deal with it!
Originally posted by Souljah
You wanna play Cops - now is the chance, since Brothers will Start killing each other on a massive scale sooner or later.
Originally posted by Souljah
Go and look today! Another bomb blast in Iraq, hundreds of people died again today needlesly, how many Iraqis have the coalition killed? None!
That shows!
That shows WHAT?
Tell me?
I venture to say that you spend your time in the rabbit hole. It has been stated by numerous people through various means of communication that Hussein was in fact responsible for a 7 digit count of killings. And I am certain that ATS members are no exception. But let us take your hundreds of thousands. I demand from you the same proof that you now demand. You do not have it, and you cannot find it! You will have to rely on propaganda put out by your state department and every other organization, for no person or organization had access to Iraq or Iraq’s files to know this. In case you missed my point while you went off on defensive mode, one should not be ridiculing these death counts and calling for proof if one did not exercise the same requirement for Hussein’s reign. Furthermore, you may not like the body count or the allocation, however, the analysis since the US and Britain refuses to part with such details, Iraq is no longer quite the secret place it was before, and to deny that a tally based on the media reports of the daily numbers is correct is to also deny the tally of US dead as put out by your military.
Originally posted by SeekerofLook at how easily you become unraveled. You aggressively demand proof of these dead Iraq numbers, and when it is turned on you are reduced to blathering.
Umm, no.
Your running off into wonderland here.
It was hundreds of thousands, not "millions," k?
Are you aware that over 43,000+ innocent people die every year in the US due to accidents?
Are you aware that over 25,000+ innocent children die a day from hunger?
No, no one is trying to dispute that there were innocents killed in Iraq.
What is being disputed here is the findings and categorizing of this report.
Pay attention.
Originally posted by Seekerof.....cause quite frankly, the majority were probably insurgents and freedom fighters, that were killed in action, who were then categorized under "civilain" deaths.
By AlissaJ. Rubin, Los Angeles Times
….according to a detailed compilation and analysis of news reports released Tuesday by a pair of British-based groups opposed to the war….
Outside experts cautioned that because of the difficulty of gathering reliable information in Iraq and inevitable political biases, the information was almost certainly incomplete. But the high casualty figures indicate the stubbornness of the anti-coalition forces, said Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank…..
…..He said reports on numbers of "killed" and "wounded" often blur together and that it is difficult to know "how many were really civilians."
(emph. added)
Link to Full Article (free site)
“…but conceded that the data on which the projections were based was of ‘limited precision’”
Originally posted by IAF101
How can you pledge allegience to yourself? Thats like saying i'm selfish and am going to do everything thats in my interest!
You know nothing about what allegience is, you pledge allegience to something else like a nation, an ideology, a party, a group etc not yourself!
Maybe since you arent from a free country you dont understand our values, but that is understandable!
What makes you think im going to accept any peice of slander that is spewed forth on the net? Do you think i am as gullible as you?
Afraid not!
The report is bunk!, It is not an official report, it says so itself!
Also it says that its sources are from news reports! So the validity of the news reports is left to its descrition, wow!
They have done their job! Saddam is out! That was what they had set out to do and have done it spectaularly.
Terrorism took over ane they are now in the process of eliminating it also.
The "figures" as you say arent even an accurate representation as the article says so what makes you sure they are?
Civil war? With whom, the iraqi police against the jehadis? That isnt a civil war that is a conflict between the Democraticaly elected Govenrmnets police force against a group of armed fanatical extreemists that are hell bent on death!
This aint the ghetto boy! Their aint no "brothers" !
Well, thats the newly elected Iraqis problem, if iraqis are killing each other isnt it! WE had come to bring Saddam to justice and secure Iraqs future we have done that! So out "Cops" have done their job.
We grabbed Saddam by the neck and he awaits a hearing!
Firstly, killing of civilians especially women and children shows that the terrorists are desperate and they will stoop to any depth to carry out their agenda of destruction and death.
Secondly, these terrorists are so intent on violence that kiling even their own kind doesnt bother them and they continue to do so with religious fevor everyday.
Thirdly, as the coalition isnt in the business of killing women and children they have automaticaly proven themselves to be on a higher moral ground, which these terrorists can never hope to acheive!
Lastly, these actions show to any member of a civilised free society that the actions of these terrorists are nothing short of demonic and shows their agenda more clearly than any of their propaganda, it shows their desperation, their irrationality and their sheer mindless fanaticism that they are brought up in.
This to a rational person exposed to civilization and the priciples of freedom, justice and human dignity shows that the Iraqi insurgents are in the truest sense of the term "EVIL" and deserve no mercy or compassion for their henious crimes agaisnt the innocent and their own kind!
posted by Benevolent Heretic
don't think Bush has ever said that directly. But Cheney certainly has made public references between 9/11 and Iraq. (Interestingly, when I put "Cheney +link +9/11 +iraq" into my search engine, it refused to return the results. It said "oops! We ran into a temporary problem while performing your search. Please try your search again" - Over and over again. So I had to get creative. )
Originally posted by Malkut
What is this ill born patriotism? People, patriotism is wrong. Actually admittiing being a patriot, is shameful...Where are the ideas for globalism, for racial tolerance, etc.?Every life is precious, no?
When a country is in chaos, patriotism is born. -- Lao Tzu
Patriotism is just a card that is played to make people support war criminals authorities without questioning their actions. unfortunately, there are people buying it. Evgen the Congress bought it, voting the "Patriot Act"...
Patriotism is a feeling of love and devotion to one's own homeland (patria, the land of one's fathers). This article surveys the concept of patriotism from the viewpoints of history, politics, ethics, and biology.