Seems that most westerners are still misreading China

The people in those regions are poor because the CCP, despite their "helping the poor" propaganda, is mis-allocating funds and international aid into their own pockets, into militarization, and into money-pit showboating like the space program, the Shanghai maglev train, the Olympics, the World Expo, the Jin Mao Tower, the Pearl Oriental Tower, the list goes on, while social instability, unrest, and poverty in outer regions increases. China is rapidly becoming a military superpower, but at the cost of neglecting its citizens.

As for China being aggressive, the CCP has always aggressively conquered lands which it arbitrarily decides are part of "the glorious motherland". Just ask Mongolia, Tibet and India. Rampant nationalism is on the rapid rise in China, thanks largely to the CCP-controlled propagandist education and media. China is becoming increasingly aggressive, without a doubt.

Right, either many Chinese or westerners are cheated by CCP.

Originally posted by suihx
I want to know,do u know anyone who has to work 12 hours a day to get less than 100 dallors per month,who was driven out of their own house with little compensation,whoes father died in the coal mine,andl haven't money to go to school,who was put into prison becaz he want to sue the offical.those people couldn't use English,and mostly haven't the access to the Internet,they couldn't make themselves heard,and our media also neglected their existence,but don't foget,these people makes a large part of chinese people.seemingly in your arguement,u've also foget them.

Agree.

Originally posted by thaei
Do you think he does not know any shortcomings of the CCP?

I donot agree.
I donot think persecuting and murdering innocent persons could be described as shoutcoming.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Welcome to ATS.



Im not only talking military issues here, but your country also STEALS BILLIONS of dollers from our movie industry and companies like Microsoft by copying on a large scale and selling these items for dirt cheap on the streets.

Remember what happened to the crew of the Navy P-3 that was RAMMED by one of your "hotshot" pilots over international waters? Remember how China interned the crew and stripped the plane of all electronics?

Those are not the actions of "friends"....You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. Your the one mis-reading our actions, not the other way around. Most American conservatives know an enemy when we see one and China is no friend of ours.....they never have been and never will be.


Maximu§

Mate, calm down you're making it sound as if you're taking out all your greviances with China on Henry.

You must remember that the authorities in China try to fight software and media piracy. Piracy is the action of groups and individuals not a whole country. And by the pure size of China and the population it isn't easy to control piracy. Even in places like Hong Kong, despite great efforts by the police, piracy is still a huge problem.

And as for the PC-3 Orion, I remember a few years back that a Soviet Mig-25 landed in Japan to defect and even after protests the US took apart the plane, examined it and sent it back in pieces.

And as for your comment that the US and China can never be friends...I agree . I don't think there's any such thing as "friends" when it comes to international dealings. Everything a country ever does is to promote and protect it's own interests.

The US will always have the interests at their forefront.

The People's Republic of China will always have its own interests at the forefront

Australia will always have their own intersts at the forefront.

That's how the world is.

I am living in China and staying in China in the future.I am not an member of the CCP.I am just a engineer.Everyday I meet the phenomena in the China society.I strongly feel my life is better and better although maybe I have some complaint about some things just as the westerns meet them on everyday.I doubt that wecomeinpeace doesn't know anything about current China.If what he said is right ,why I never meet them before. I don't know why he so strongly hate China and tell the westerns fairy tale.Maybe he tell all the truth about himself.

I believe China never will be the next super power ( or at least the next big power ).why doesn't everybody see a basic problem in China ?That is population.When we face that some trouble,maybe simple problem in other country,it's a big trouble in China.For example,education,job,food,water,soil and so on. So many people need this ,need that.I can't imagine China will be an aggressive country if she can't solve the inner issues.

Originally posted by joechino
I don't know why he so strongly hate China...

I consider that slander. I don't hate China at all. I love China. I'm just not very fond of it's current, temporary, dictatorship government. As much as the CCP has tried to make the world and it's citizens believe it, the CCP is not China, and China is not the CCP. Get it? Got it? Good.

PS: Isn't it just spoooooooky weird how you, HenryXY, Corner, and a few others spamming all over ATS at the moment all joined ATS at the very same time? Way to be subtle, guys. Nice one.

[edit on 2005-7-22 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by joechino
I don't know why he so strongly hate China...

I consider that slander. I don't hate China at all. I love China. I'm just not very fond of it's current, temporary, dictatorship government. As much as the CCP has tried to make the world and it's citizens believe it, the CCP is not China, and China is not the CCP. Get it? Got it? Good.

PS: Isn't it just spoooooooky weird how you, HenryXY, Corner, and a few others spamming all over ATS at the moment all joined ATS at the very same time? Way to be subtle, guys. Nice one.

But I feel you don't love China at all.You had rather China and Chinese people are worse and worse.Of course,the CCP is not China.I know that.You don't need to remind me.

I never know HenryXY and Corner.I know ATS from lqqm.com and join it for understand the westerns true view for China.I'm so surprised that such you are decieving here.

Originally posted by joechino
But I feel you don't love China at all.You had rather China and Chinese people are worse and worse.

Of course,the CCP is not China.I know that.You don't need to remind me.

Where did I ever give that impression? I challenge you to provide evidence of what you posit. Quite the opposite is true. China and her people will be much better off without the corrupt CCP in power, and I personally, and a growing number of Chinese citizens, can't wait for that day. You greatly misunderstand me, Sir, and such misperception, as expressed in your first statement above, is a direct result of the falsity of your second.



And still...two and a half pages after abandoning the topic, this thread continues to be about little ol' me instead of the issues. Laaaaaaame~~



[edit on 2005-7-22 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by HenryXY
What I want to say is twenty years ago I was one of them , lucky now I am not in there anymore. And I am 99% sure there will be less and less of them in China until the middle-class becomes the majority of the socity.

[edit on 21-7-2005 by HenryXY]

I am not so optimistic,u have improved your life greatly doesn't mean everyone else is the same. actually,to those poor and helpless, the policeman still can broke out the door at midnight to check the licence,and beat those who dare say a word.(of course,this is still much better than before)

U've met a lot of chinese who thinks highly of the current government,but how many of them r peasants,laid off workers,immigrant workers or peddlers.... I really doubt there is any.
If u ask them,u'll get quite a different view on this topic.

I'm not denying that most chinese people lives much better than before.but
the overall fact is not so rosy.what worries me most is that many serious problems of china now(corruption,the gap between the rich and poor.......) roots in the current political system.if there be no great change in politics,it is unlikely such things will get better. till now,I can't see a solution to these.

I don't say u are lying ,but your point of view is too partial(perhaps u r just proud of China).

I am staying in China now.I never meet what you said in the thread.I never meet my friend , families,colleagues was persecuted because anyone blamed the government.I have accuse a bureaucracy before.At best he was not happy about that at that time.I am still ok now.I was not captured by anyone.
Mother of my friend was a member of falun gong. Her leg was broken at 1998.She didn't want to go to hospital.She wanted to do falun exercise to treat it.My friend and his sister wanted to persuade her to go to hospital for cure.But she never listen them.As a result,now she is lame.Of course,she is never persecuted by government.Subsequently,She stop do falun exercise.Now she know it's not religion.It's just a deceptious trick.
I give this sample means this thing is the nearest one about the issues which the westerns criticized.However, it's not decribed just like by wecomeinpeace.Truth ,what is the truth.I asked.Why the some overseas Chinese mislead the westerns about China?Do they want to revenge themselves on for the CCP persecuted before?Or they are opportunists?Or they are agent of some interest group?I don't know. On all accounts,I stay in china ,I don't believe their words.I think wecomeinpeace is a bad guy.

It is obvious that we are now debating with a band of communist supporters, who are likely speaking from their contaminated minds, polluted with the propaganda by CCP, gong fei (communist robbers).

I dun understand why a number of "mind-controlled" chinese cannot wake up from these deceptions when they are granted the ability to think for themselves. Most of the chinese, meanwhile, are afraid to stand up. Brave souls, the lion hearted ones, are willing to sacrifice their lives in order for the free world to learn of their plight, for a China that is rid of these power hungry thugs.

I'm an overseas chinese and i feel proud as a descendant of chinese, not a communist, not a traitor who help the soviets to expand their sphere of influence. I've been to PRC for many times, the most recent one been a few months ago, and i muz disagree that the people are pleased with the communists. Corruption is everywhere according to my tour guide, and the people are certainly not cared for by CCP. Those who are pleased with the regime are most probably familes of those officials who are siphoning off the people's money right now.

Agent Henry taking a break? Or in the headquaters discussing with others agents what to write in ATS next? Juz jokin!

Originally posted by joechino
Truth ,what is the truth.I asked.Why the some overseas Chinese mislead the westerns about China?Do they want to revenge themselves on for the CCP persecuted before?Or they are opportunists?Or they are agent of some interest group?I don't know. On all accounts,I stay in china ,I don't believe their words.I think wecomeinpeace is a bad guy.

Sadly, living in communist china does not allow you to have any glimpse of truth. You are simply feeded communists' lies.

Hey c'mon it's no point saying "i dun wan to believe you!". You must accept that others may have a more objective thinking due to some factors(like free press and minimum propaganda). I urge you to process all the points put forward in this forum thru your mind(that's wat forums are for) and form your own ideas, and eject all the ones seeded by the CCP. You must accept that no one is absolutely right or wrong.

And about your hatred towards welcomeinpeace. Peace! Everyone of us is simply putting forward our viewpoints. xchange of info. So let's not make enemies and hope this thread dun turn ugly.

Originally posted by NotheRaGe
It is obvious that we are now debating with a band of communist supporters, who are likely speaking from their contaminated minds, polluted with the propaganda by CCP, gong fei (communist robbers).

I dun understand why a number of "mind-controlled" chinese cannot wake up from these deceptions when they are granted the ability to think for themselves.

They are brainwashed by CCP for decades, not easy to have a clear mind, that is a pity.

I'm not denying that most chinese people lives much better than before.

I donot think so, many peasants are still very poor, but CCP only shows the world of the window-economy development of big cities.

When we mention that CCP violating Chinese's basic human rights, some persons oppose that using the excuse of economic development.

Now, we know the development is not so well.

I think some people in big cities really have a good income, that is because of the foreign investment or some other factors, not because of CCP. What CCP has done is loosening its strict constraint for Chinese people, therefore, some Chinese can have a better life now, this is not the achievement of CCP, if there was not CCP's constraint, many more Chinese people had lived a much better life long time ago.

Sadly, living in communist china does not allow you to have any glimpse of truth. You are simply feeded communists' lies.

Correct.

I think through all the years, we have realized that all the CCP's promises are lies.

I remember, 20 years ago CCP said seriously,that till 2000 China will finish four moderniztion. Now, we all know that is a funny joke now.

CCP is only concerned about its power, its group benefit. It never tries to benefit Chinese people.

Some people argue for the improvement of living stardards of Chinese people, now we understand most peasants in China are still poor. Therefore CCP does not do things well.

Originally posted by joechino
I think wecomeinpeace is a bad guy.

Got one thing to say to you, joe...



You're just upset because your little propaganda exercise has failed. Look back through the thread and see who it was that started acting ilke a dweeb in the first place when someone disagreed with him. Actually, I'm usually a nice guy, ask anyone on this forum, but you see sonny, the thing is that I and some others here know exactly what you, corner, bitterweb, Jerry_fd, and HenryXY have been sent here for. You're not going to get any free rides in this forum. People here are educated, come from all over the world, and know their history and their facts. If you don't like it, tough. Besides, you and your little gang will all disappear after this upset in US-China relations is over, so it doesn't matter anyway.

i didnt want to post. really. but maximus's blatant inablity to make any sense got me again;

Most American conservatives know an enemy when we see one and China is no friend of ours.....they never have been and never will be.

maximus, you must have had an unfortunate childhood or something. if you werent loved enough, im sorry for you. but you dont always have to declare whos 'side' you're on, because usually were all on different sides of the same coin.

it is solely the energy of people like you that fuel our wars and hatred today.

Oh, and joechino, corner, bitterweb, Jerry_fd, and HenryXY, I got a nice little piccy for you:


Translation:
"The Nine Criticisms [of the CCP] is The Best Remedy For The Anti-secession Law
The Nine Criticisms has sparked Chinese people's resignation from the Chinese Communist Party across the globe (already more than 500,000 resigned)."

Actually, this is an old picture; the number has now passed 3 million!

Busy on a project these days....Don't have time to join the discussion. Anyway there are some other guys wish to continue the debate, that should be enough

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by joechino
I don't know why he so strongly hate China...

I consider that slander. I don't hate China at all. I love China. I'm just not very fond of it's current, temporary, dictatorship government. As much as the CCP has tried to make the world and it's citizens believe it, the CCP is not China, and China is not the CCP. Get it? Got it? Good.

PS: Isn't it just spoooooooky weird how you, HenryXY, Corner, and a few others spamming all over ATS at the moment all joined ATS at the very same time? Way to be subtle, guys. Nice one.

[edit on 2005-7-22 by wecomeinpeace]