Seems that most westerners are still misreading China

Originally posted by HenryXY
Just want to tell you one thing, the most popular sport in China is soccer.

In the West, except in the US, we call it "football".

Also, many Chinese know there is a very famous Ukraine soccer forward in A.C Millian club of Italy and we gave him a nick name--"Nuclear Weapon of Ukraine". How dare you say that Chinese know nothig about this country?? Just by your imaging.

How does knowledge of football stars equate to a comparatively superior knowledge of the West?

Just wondering what kind of chinese did you ask for such kind of question? If they are old Chinese people leaving China many years ago then I have nothing to say. If they are all young people(

Just tell me where are your friends , how old are they and when did they leave China, what are their occupations?

In China, there is no tution fee for elementary shcool and middle shcool. Although there are still many poor families living in the west part or mountains can't offer other fee, I estimate 90-95% young chinese can finish elementary school, 50-60% can finish middle school and around 15-20% will have the chance to enter colleages and university. My friends in China already complained there are too many students graduated from university these years and this situation leads to a serious job problem.

I still wonder whether you have been to China or not. If the only path for you to get the information about China is from the books and oversea Chinese, then you should go to China once, just regarding it as a tour. You will find the answers to many of your questions there.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by HenryXY
In China, since 20 years ago, every chinese student is required to study the history(geography)of western countries. These kinds of courses usually named "History(Geography) of Western Countries" will last for around 6-10 years, from middle school to university.

Again, you're talking about the minority middle class. 99% of the lower class, which makes up the vast majority of the populace, can't locate America on a map. Ask any Australian who Deng Xiao Ping, Jiang Ze Min and Hu Jin Tao are, or when the PRC was formed and they will likely be able to tell you. Ask even most middle-class Chinese who Bob Hawke, Paul Keating, Malcom Fraser, and John Howard are, or when Australian federation was and you'll get a blank stare. But I gather when you say "the West", you're really talking about the US.

If you don't believe it just confirm it with any educated Chinese younger than 35 years old...

The majority of my friends fit exactly into that demographic.

The thing that we need to recite the years, names of persons and description of important events makes me feel quite boring at that time. However, at least it makes the Chinese people a basic knowledge and expression of the foreign countries.

Which outlines one of the greatest weaknesses of the Chinese education system. It is focused almost exclusively on mindless memorization to pass tests. The CCP has, to their credit, recently been reviewing the effectiveness of the education system, largely because they are tired of having to pay foreign experts to come to China and tell them how to run their industries, despite having an abundance of locals who are degreed up to the eyeballs. The focus on problem-solving, lateral thinking, plus applicable knowledge and skills is grossly lacking. When I taught English part-time for a while, it used to drive me crackers trying to explain to students that mindlessly memorizing vocabulary lists of obscure, seldom-used words was no substitute for actually using the language.

Just wondering know how many western countries have added the history of China into the formal textbook for their students?

Does US do it? I really doubt it.

As I said, are we comparing China and the West, or just China and the US? I guess you mean the US.

1. In China we also call it football , just want to distinguish it with FOOTBALL in North America (including Canada).

2. I just think you are outside China and get some information from the oversea Chinese.

3. Seems that you have less and less evidences to suport your opinion.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by HenryXY
Just want to tell you one thing, the most popular sport in China is soccer.

In the West, except in the US, we call it "football".

Also, many Chinese know there is a very famous Ukraine soccer forward in A.C Millian club of Italy and we gave him a nick name--"Nuclear Weapon of Ukraine". How dare you say that Chinese know nothig about this country?? Just by your imaging.

How does knowledge of football stars equate to a comparatively superior knowledge of the West?

Just wondering what kind of chinese did you ask for such kind of question? If they are old Chinese people leaving China many years ago then I have nothing to say. If they are all young people(

I just think you are outside China and get some information from the oversea Chinese.

You thought wrong.

Seems that you have less and less evidences to suport your opinion.

No, I prefer quality over quantity. I discussed some of your assertions, you rebutted, and I responded to your rebuttals with short clarifications. There was no need to waffle on for another long post to reiterate points I had already made. And now, simply because I have a different opinion from you, you are getting angry and insulting me by calling me a liar. This is a discussion board, remember? ...for discussing things?

[edit on 2005-7-20 by wecomeinpeace]

Henrey....very interesting thread to be sure!

Thought prevoking indeed.

Its SO HOT here in Utah today I need my thoughts prevoked......gads its 106 ferenheight!
How is the weather in China today WCIP? Is it summer there as well, or is it wintertime?
I believe its winter Austrailia, but I am unsure about China.......but I am not a meteorologist of any sort. I rely on North American farmers alminac....

Thanks a lot. I just try my best to describe the current state of most cities in China, but there are still many poor people and depressed rural area need help.

The strongest point should be the intense wish of all Chinese people to make China a very flourishing and strong country and get a better life after having been one of the poorest and weakest countries for the last 3 centuries. During the last 25 years after economics revolution, the annual increasement rate of GDP of China has been always more than 10% or even 15%, MOST Chinese take it as the best time since Tang Dynasty.

Also, "PeacefulRise" is the most frequent word mentioned in the presentation of China leaders, newspaper, magazine and websites everyday.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Welcome to ATS!!!

Thank you for your awesome debut post. It really taught me a lot about the current state of China. China is a country I am really interested at this moment.

Tell me this, though. What exactly do you feel is China's strongest point, currently?

First of all, after debating with other guys in Chinese BBS and forum for hundreds of times, nothing in the internet will make me angry. I don't mean to assult you, just want to ask you 3 questions( Although you never reply to my questions directly)
1. Have you been to China before?
2.Do you know how to read/write/speak/listening Chinese?
3.Where and who are the Chinese guys in your articles?

If your answers to 1,2 questions are NO then it almost makes no sense to debate with you anymore. Will you debate with a guy who has never been to your own country and know nothing about English?

Concerned with the question 3, I have met at least hundreds Chinese immigrants or oversea students in North America, none of them have a hostility to China or government. On the contrary, more and more oversea Chinese already or plan to go back China these days( I just met 2 of them going back China last month). Of course, you can(or should be MUST?) regard all of them as foolish, mind-washed guys....How dare they wish to live in a country "without" democracy and under a "fascist" government after living in North America, the best and most democracy land in the world, for so many years???..en. They must be forced by many BAD guys~~~ Well, you can image everything possible like the Hollywood movie in your mind, it should be really funny...

Anyway, the purpose of my article is to show everyone a real China in my eyes.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

I just think you are outside China and get some information from the oversea Chinese.

You thought wrong.

Seems that you have less and less evidences to suport your opinion.

No, I prefer quality over quantity. I discussed some of your assertions, you rebutted, and I responded to your rebuttals with short clarifications. There was no need to waffle on for another long post to reiterate points I had already made. And now, simply because I have a different opinion from you, you are getting angry and insulting me by calling me a liar. This is a discussion board, remember? ...for discussing things?

[edit on 2005-7-20 by wecomeinpeace]

[edit on 20-7-2005 by HenryXY]

Stage one, every time the Sino-US tensions elevate and their is a spate of related activity on ATS, a few Chinese posters suddenly appear and start pontificating about the same old scratched record stuff, about how "Taiwan is part of China and Tibet is part of China and China is super-fantastic number one and China is better than other countries and China has a longer history than your country and the CCP is a peaceful humanitarian flower-power government and we hate the Japanese and you Westerners know nothing about China so I'm here to teach you and China's military is strong and Taiwan is none of your business and the US had best not interfere with Taiwan-China" and so on and so on ad nauseum.

Stage two, anytime anybody addresses these claims and has a different opinion, the reaction is always the same. Angry and indignant, "How dare you say anything bad about the Chinese government, and how dare you assume to know anything about China! You are an ignorant Westerner, you know nothing about China!" Do you see Western members saying these things to Chinese members when they comment about Western nations? No. Why? Because it's insulting and is based on prejudicial assumptions. Even the title of your thread is basically a statement to that effect. You know nothing about me, and you obviously know nothing about the average intelligence and knowledge level of the members of this website, and frankly I find your assumption that we know nothing compared to you and are not worthy of debating with you to be repugnant.

Stage three, in the end, these members usually lose interest and disappear after a few weeks once they have exhausted the topic of "China good, Japan bad, U.S. maybe ok but don't mess with China over Taiwan"; because they can't stand the fact that not everyone agrees with them about China, and because other members get tired and stop responding to their threads.

So far, you have already followed the pattern to the letter for the first two stages, and in record time I might add. In fact, you haven't even bothered to participate in anybody else's threads, you just came right out and started with the same old speech for your very first post.

HenryXY wrote:
First of all, after debating with other guys in Chinese BBS and forum for hundreds of times, nothing in the internet will make me angry.

Sorry, but you've already proven that to be false. You have become belligerent, have insulted me when you know nothing about me, and are now actively attempting to make the debate a personal issue, attacking me instead of debating the topic.

1. Have you been to China before?
2.Do you know how to read/write/speak/listening Chinese?
3.Where and who are the Chinese guys in your articles?

If your answers to 1,2 questions are NO then it almost makes no sense to debate with you anymore.

So you are basically saying that you will not discuss or debate with anyone who has never been to China before and is not competent in Mandarin. Then my question to you is: Why the hell are you here?? If this is the only kind of person that you feel is worthy of commenting on China or the CCP, then you are in the wrong forum, buddy. Or are you simply here to parrot CCP propaganda word for word? It seems the answer is the latter, particularly in light of your post history. No sense debating with me? Well, if you haven't figured out the answers to your questions yet from some of the hints I've given in my previous posts, and even a glaring hint that another member provided you with, and if your posting style is to attack anyone who disagrees with you, then there is no sense debating with you.

Anyway, the purpose of my article is to show everyone a real China in my eyes.

Exactly my point. Please take the podium, the microphone is all yours. I'm done with this thread.

Oh, and welcome to ATS.

Originally posted by HenryXY
Taiwan and Tibet have already been a part of China. They should be civil problems of China and no irrelevant to the western countries. Just think about if Hawaii or Alaska is independent what will the U.S people do, then you will understand the willing of Chinese to get Taiwan back.

[edit on 20-7-2005 by HenryXY]

Hello, agent Henry. I would like to respond to this part of your post in particular, as this seems to be the most media-driven problems of your list.

I know, it isn't good to bring up the past during a history revisionist class, but I feel it must be brought up that communists ran the non-commies off the mainland, to Taiwan. As that be the case, it is not a matter of China getting Taiwan back, but the commies wanting to finish off the non-commies. See the difference? Both Hawaii and Alaska became states, and not by coercion, but choice. Taiwan has never been part of Communist China, and it seems that they do not want to be. There is a huge difference, so let's not try and create false history while there are some of us around who know the truth.
I know, that is not why you were sent to this site to promote lies, so I don't expect you to wait for me to die off. Just know, there are some of us who are still around who know.

I'll not bother you with the many factual details you ran fast and loose with on your other points as I don't have that kind of time. I'm not being paid to be here and must sleep and go to my job.

Good night, Henry.

Originally posted by HenryXY

Second , according to this map, looks like at that time half Korea and parts of Vitnam, Tailand, India, Russia were also parts of China. Based on your opinion, China should take all of them back instead of TaiWan?

???I dun understand this though my logic never failed me. I know that you think i'm suggesting modern China should not take wat is not inside the map. Along this line, PRC has to give up watever it possess currently but is not inside the map of the past dynasties?

In fact, the point i'm making is that modern China, PRC should not look back into the past and say: hey that's ours, we will 'claim' it back and 'liberate' our fellow 'comrades'!" She should stick to watever she has after winning the civil war on the mainland. PRC is not ROC and has no right over the government. Now if you also watch to snatch the little haven(not for long) from the free chinese hands, you will still have to put up a fight with the Army of ROC, like in the civil war!

I'm may be a little too extreme but my personal opinon is - Yes there's only one China, and it's the Repulbic Of China(1911 - current) but let's not talk over this please...

Anyway Sir Henry you say that you are a mainland chinese who is currently living in North America(US and Canada). So may i ask you(no others underlying meanings), do you 'feel' any influence of those spies planted into local chinese communities by the chinese communist party?

I got a feeling this thread is goin to get more heated

[edit on 21-7-2005 by NotheRaGe]

I am living in the west part of China now.33 years old,male,engineer,S.M.

I agree with HenryXY.Basiclly,he's right.I don't know why many people want to mislead the western people just like wecomeinpeace.I also want to ask him 3 questions:

1. Have you been to China before?
2.Do you know how to read/write/speak/listening Chinese?
3.Where and who are the Chinese guys in your articles?

OMFG, you nincompoops obviously haven't been on a discussion board before. If you've got some way to rebutt the points in my original post, then do so. You're attempts to attack my credibilty instead of my points only serves to undermine your own credibility.

Buuuuuuuut...

HenryXY and joechino tried to get a clue and said:
1. Have you been to China before?
2.Do you know how to read/write/speak/listening Chinese?
3.Where and who are the Chinese guys in your articles?

wecomeinpeace wrote:
Well, if you haven't figured out the answers to your questions yet from some of the hints I've given in my previous posts, and even a glaring hint that another member provided you with...

You guys crack me up! Do I have to spell it out for you in black and white?? Figure it out, kiddies!

Here's a little tip to help you in your mission to make this thread all about me:
1. Learn to actually read the posts that other members make.
2. Wake up the dozy, peg-legged hamster operating your wheel-powered brain before you start.

I feel so flattered that the thread has become all about little old me and my qualifications to comment in this thread. I'm...I'm touched....no, really...*sniff*...you guys are the greatest...*sniff*

[edit on 2005-7-21 by wecomeinpeace]

I am from china,and I wanna say something on this.

One doesn't need to be in china to know china ,also ,we r chinese doesn't necessarily mean we know china better than others."不识庐山真面目，只缘身在此山中”(we don't know the true feature of the lu mountain,because we r in it)


I want to know,do u know anyone who has to work 12 hours a day to get less than 100 dallors per month,who was driven out of their own house with little compensation,whoes father died in the coal mine,andl haven't money to go to school,who was put into prison becaz he want to sue the offical.those people couldn't use English,and mostly haven't the access to the Internet,they couldn't make themselves heard,and our media also neglected their existence,but don't foget,these people makes a large part of chinese people.seemingly in your arguement,u've also foget them.

china is not so backward as some westerners thought,but seemingly your introduction has gone to the other extreme.

Ill tell you EXACTLY what China is it is a RABID DOG rapidly chewing up its resouces because of its over population...Thus China is trying to Expand its Boarders to steal other peoples resources and do not be surprised if ONE DAY China and Russia DO go to war over Resources....

Originally posted by suihx
I am from china,and I wanna say something on this.
[...]
I want to know,do u know anyone who has to work 12 hours a day to get less than 100 dallors per month,who was driven out of their own house with little compensation,whoes father died in the coal mine,andl haven't money to go to school,who was put into prison becaz he want to sue the offical.those people couldn't use English,and mostly haven't the access to the Internet,they couldn't make themselves heard,and our media also neglected their existence,but don't foget,these people makes a large part of chinese people.seemingly in your arguement,u've also foget them.

china is not so backward as some westerners thought,but seemingly your introduction has gone to the other extreme.

"You have voted suihx for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote this month."

BRAVO!! You see, this is what happens when you get a real Chinese with a decent-sized brain commenting on China objectively. A Chinese person who isn't some Communist Party agent sent here to spew propaganda after the Chinese general's nuclear threats, and who also isn't some Westerner who spends a year or two in Western China, learns how to say "wo jue de ni hen piao liang", gets addicted to passport-seeking Chinese girls' cooches, and suddenly thinks he knows it all.

suihx, my hat goes off to you Sir.

[edit on 2005-7-21 by wecomeinpeace]

Hahahaha,sosoososo funny, did I mention that China is now a rich and powerful country and there are no poor people there?
If so please indicate it to everyone.

There are still around 700-800 million people around or under poor life quality in China now. There are whole bunch of photoes about the misery life of poor families in China in the internet.Just google it.
What I want to say is twenty years ago I was one of them , lucky now I am not in there anymore. And I am 99% sure there will be less and less of them in China until the middle-class becomes the majority of the socity.

I wish I were an agent from China because I can get paid from China gov and maybe get a pair of black glasses and what William Smith wear in
the film "Man In Black";
I also wish I was the top1% "Middle-Class" in China as you repeated in your article. However, with the best food all over the world,endless enentainment, much more business chances than any other current parts and also 1% top income as you said, why do I leave China? Give me a reason, OK? Oh one more thing, the largest shopping mall in Asia was just open few months ago in the city I lived in China before, and many friends ask me to go back shopping there during christmas this year, how do you like it?

Every coin has two sides. From your and some others' articles and attitude to China in this website, I can see only the dark side. That is why I want to show the bright side of China to all you guys.

To tell the truth, I don't want to change your mind because your opinion and understanding to China has been formed for so many years.

However, it is still possible to recommend other guys to visit China to get the first hand understanding themselves.

BTW, don't learn the ugly speaking style from Saddam.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by suihx
I am from china,and I wanna say something on this.
[...]
I want to know,do u know anyone who has to work 12 hours a day to get less than 100 dallors per month,who was driven out of their own house with little compensation,whoes father died in the coal mine,andl haven't money to go to school,who was put into prison becaz he want to sue the offical.those people couldn't use English,and mostly haven't the access to the Internet,they couldn't make themselves heard,and our media also neglected their existence,but don't foget,these people makes a large part of chinese people.seemingly in your arguement,u've also foget them.

china is not so backward as some westerners thought,but seemingly your introduction has gone to the other extreme.

"You have voted suihx for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote this month."

BRAVO!! You see, this is what happens when you get a real Chinese with a decent-sized brain commenting on China objectively. A Chinese person who isn't some Communist Party agent sent here to spew propaganda after the Chinese general's nuclear threats, and who also isn't some Westerner who spends a year or two in Western China, learns how to say "wo jue de ni hen piao liang", gets addicted to passport-seeking Chinese girls' cooches, and suddenly thinks he knows it all.

suihx, my hat goes off to you Sir.

[edit on 2005-7-21 by wecomeinpeace]

[edit on 21-7-2005 by HenryXY]

[edit on 21-7-2005 by HenryXY]

Agent Henry, I see you've set aside some special time to humiliate yourself on the Internet.

Originally posted by HenryXY
Hahahaha,sosoososo funny

Wait...does that mean it's 4x funny, or it's level of humor is only so-so?

What I want to say is twenty years ago I was one of them , lucky now I am not in there anymore.

So the CCP fat-cats re-opened China to the West and allowed you to make it rich. Whoopdey-frikkin-do! Does that mean you have to come and pollute our forum with your tripe about Taiwan belonging to the CCP, with your pro-CCP poppycock, and with your egotistical garble about how Westerners know nothing about China? And meanwhile, millions of Chinese citizens who you obviously care nothing about are wrongfully imprisoned, forced into re-education through labour, tortured, executed and kept in abject poverty, and the CCP continues to make threats to the free nation of Taiwan and the United States, all the while pillaging the nation's wealth for their own benefit. But hey, that doesn't faze you because you get to wear Gucci and emigrate to the States. Get a clue, Agent Henry, the CCP is not China. The 56 years of the CCP's murderous rule is a speck of flea-poop compared to China's long history. Dr. Sun Yat Sun would be rolling in his grave if he knew what the CCP did and is still doing to the Chinese people. I've said it before and I'll say it again: China is a great nation, the CCP are just leeches on the buffalo's backside.

I wish I were an agent from China because I can get paid from China gov and maybe get a pair of black glasses and what William Smith wear in the film "Man In Black"

It's "Men in Black". That's what you get for reading off faked DVD covers on pirated copies that the CCP allows people to make of Western intellectual property. But anyway, the CCP doesn't pay their monkeys that well, there's too many of them.

I also wish I was the top1% "Middle-Class" in China as you repeated in your article. However, with the best food all over the world,endless enentainment, much more business chances than any other current parts and also 1% top income as you said, why do I leave China? Give me a reason, OK? Oh one more thing, the largest shopping mall in Asia was just open few months ago in the city I lived in China before, and many friends ask me to go back shopping there during christmas this year, how do you like it?

While you're out shopping, why don't you buy yourself a clue. My original post was this:

wecomeinpeace wrote:
You're talking about the minority middle class. 99% of the lower class can't locate America on a map.

That does not mean that the middle-class is 1% of the population. It refers to 99% of the existent lower class. I see the CCP Operatives' English lessons are still of the same standard.

Every coin has two sides. From your and some others' articles and attitude to China in this website, I can see only the dark side.

The Dark Side. Hmmm...I sense...a tremor in the force...it's as if millions of Chinese citizens are gradually waking up to the ChiCom Party lies and will someday overthrow it and institute democracy in their once-great nation.

BTW, don't learn the ugly speaking style from Saddam.

WTF does that mean?? My comments may seem harsh, but remember, you started with the insulting and calling me a liar when I threw a spanner in your propaganda works, and your assumptions as to the merits of the members of this board (on your first day here no less) are disgusting...whatsoever thou sowest, so shalt thou reap.

[edit on 2005-7-21 by wecomeinpeace]

Hey wecomeinpeace,

Stop trying to call henryXY an agent of the CCP. What he reflected in his post is normal for any one who feels proud of his/her country/nation. Except for "never be an aggressive country", i dont see any propaganda in his post.

It is just normal for him to be proud of his country. You dont expect everyone posting about china to bash it dont you?

Do you think he does not know any shortcomings of the CCP? If he is really from China, he knows it first hand but feels that the shortcomings are out weighed by the benefit that is being given such as economic opportunities and restoring pride in being chinese.

OK, i have finished my rant. You may continue fighting!

Well he has a point about China not generally being militarily agressive, China's last war was Vietnam, back in 1979. How many wars have we been in since then?

China's government is way too authoritarian, I'll agree, but they seem to be gradually loosening their grip. They have to, command economies don't work very well. And the increasing economic freedoms of the Chinese are likely to loosen up their society in general over time. Totalism is simply bad for growth, in addition to it's other usavory characteristics.

Hey thaei,

Thanks and I appreciate the sentiment, but you don't have all the pieces of the puzzle here.

[edit on 2005-7-22 by wecomeinpeace]