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Greece picks F-16 over Eurofighter

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posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Greece will purchase 30 F-16/Block 52 fighter aircraft in a direct deal with the United States government for about 1.1 billion euros (1.32 billion dollars), Greek Defence Minister Spilios Spiliotopoulos said on Tuesday.
Athens will also sign an option to obtain 10 more aircraft of the same type for operational needs as part of a four-year arms programme extending to 2010, the minister said following a meeting of the Greek state council of foreign affairs and defence (KYSEA).

The final cost of the contract will depend on the offer tendered by the US government, Spiliotopoulos said.

In April, the government said it would reexamine a deal sealed by its socialist predecessors for the purchase of 60 Eurofighter aircraft from European consortium EADS at an estimated cost of 1.7 billion euros.

The F-16/Block 52 is the latest generation of the popular fighter, which first appeared in the 1980's.


Link to entire article


My guess is they decided on F-16 because it's a proven aircraft.




posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 01:46 PM
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The eurofighter was probably too expensive. They're now going to buy 30 F-16's & 30 "fourth generation" fighter aircraft, which probalby means they're gonna buy some eurofighters after all.

www.defensenews.com...

They should buy some Gripens, instead of F-16's or Eurofighters, they're much cheaper per airframe, and cheaper to maintain. source

Now they're going to buy two different aircraft, which is much more expensive to maintain than one type of aircraft...



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Its simple dollar return. Dollar for dollar the F16 will give them a better return on thier investment in regards to what they intend to use it for. And, like already said: F16 must be the most proven aircraft in the skies right now as far as actual useage and hours flown. Its a no brainer.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Guys, wake up.

The "no brainer" is that Greece has been using F16's since the mid 1980's.

Greece simply sees this as the cheapest option in an environment where, as far as they are concerned, there is little or no serious threat that requires anything more advanced than the current F16.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Guys, wake up.

The "no brainer" is that Greece has been using F16's since the mid 1980's.

Greece simply sees this as the cheapest option in an environment where, as far as they are concerned, there is little or no serious threat that requires anything more advanced than the current F16.


Um, isnt that what I said? except about the ones they already have?



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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This doesn't surprise me, the Typhoon is getting slapped down everywhere.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Absolutely. The half a billion euro saving is what will have driven this choice politically and the fact that Greece is already familiar with the F-16 just makes it an even easier choice. The current Govt can point to massive cost savings compared with what the previous Govt was spending while the difference in capability will not register with the average stelios in the street.

Of course the F-16 is perfectly good enough for what Greece wants it for, I'm not saying they are buying cheap junk



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc

Um, isnt that what I said? except about the ones they already have?


- Er, the whole point was exactly the bit "about the ones they already have".......

....... which you left out so you could do a "picks F16 over Typhoon" spin.

The entire tenor of the story changes when you know they already use F16s & therefore already have the infrastructure and expertise of using F16s and will make large savings by not changing planes.

This is really a story about the Greeks keeping their defense costs down; and not really a story of 'Greeks pick F16 ahead of Typhoon' at all.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

- Er, the whole point was exactly the bit "about the ones they already have".......

....... which you left out so you could do a "picks F16 over Typhoon" spin.




No spin in my response. Greece was clearly deliberating over the Typhoon, so it did in fact LOSE to the F16, wether they already had some or not.

Please dont try to turn this into "They bought more F16's" thread, when the truth is the decided to buy more F16's OVER the Typhoon. HUGE difference.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 03:56 PM
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You don't think the difference in cost plus the existing familiarity with the F-16 had anything to do with it then?

Its rarely black and white.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
You don't think the difference in cost plus the existing familiarity with the F-16 had anything to do with it then?

Its rarely black and white.


thats exactly it, im not denying that. But the bottom line is, they were making a choice between the two. And whatever the Typhoon is or isnt, it wasnt enough to make Greese want them.

But this guy is trying to make it look like is was a simple purchase of some more F16's, when if fact it was a decision they made over another aircraft.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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Because it was a lot cheaper to maintaim them and the experience was already there. It wasn't because the Typhoon is worse or something.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
But the bottom line is, they were making a choice between the two. And whatever the Typhoon is or isnt, it wasnt enough to make Greese want them.


- Greece chose cheapest.

That is it in a nutshell.


But this guy is trying to make it look like is was a simple purchase of some more F16's, when if fact it was a decision they made over another aircraft.


- "This guy" pointed out the ever so slightly germane fact that Greece already had F16's (and therefore expertise and an infrastructure in operating them)........something you prefered to omit.

I also mentioned that Greece (like many in certain other European countries, Germany famously has a 'wholly based on cost' opposition to Typhoon too) does not see the need to spend the large amount of money on an aircraft when there is, in their mind, no credible remaining threat for it to face.

One might also point to the numerous political statements made in Greece that Typhoon was too expensive and designed for a cold-war environment and an escalating technology 'race' that is no longer relevant or needed (in the view of Greece's current government.

Instead of trying to spin this as a 'Greece looked at F16 and Typhoon and prefered F16' the true story is Greece is simply cutting public spending where she can and saw no reason to carry on buying Typhoon when the (much) cheaper F16 was capable of meeting any credible 'need' they could foresee.

Greece had a change of government who examined the issue again and chose cheap - on the basis that the cost savings were more important to them when they could see no justification for buying the more capable and more expensive Typhoon.

That is the truth of what happened.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Yeah .. I doubt it was the F-16 over the typhoon..
Maybe F-16 over Grippen/RAfale would be better...
A more appropriate comparision would be the Su-30MK(?) "over" the typhoon..
or vice versa



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 05:28 AM
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you also have to take into account that they can get the new f-16's much quicker than the Typhoon, as all typhoons being built now are for the partner countries (only just over 50 of the already purchased >500 have been delivered), so they would not start getting them for a few years. This is what has hurt eurofighter over the last couple of purchase trials.



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Yeah .. I doubt it was the F-16 over the typhoon..
Maybe F-16 over Grippen/RAfale would be better...
A more appropriate comparision would be the Su-30MK(?) "over" the typhoon..
or vice versa





Would anybody know which is better........ TYPHOON or RAFALE???????

Has there been a one on one engagement?????????
Or national pride would not let this happen?????



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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The Eurofighter is more expensive than than the F-16. Several F-16s are more effective than just a small number of Eurofighters.



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Well I'm sure someone can link the study; and no doubt a large number of F16's could do the job of a few Typhoons, on a good day, with good pilots.

The fact still stands though that Greece (like many European countries) just do not see any credible threat that necessitates such an expensive and advanced aircraft as Typhoon; especially when they are have, as they see it, far more pressing priorities; namely modernising their public services whilst simultaneously trying to curtail their gov. spending.

I know fans of military aircraft (and especially some Americans) today find that hard to accept but there it is.

Unless people like Al Queda start coming at us in advanced aircraft there is a strong strand of European public opinion that really doesn't see anyone on the horizon for any foreseeable credible future that requires Europe to fund a 'new gen' aircraft.

The UK gov and those that came together to design construct and buy Typhoon have obviously decided otherwise (probably as much to maintain Europe's cutting edge aero-industry capabilities as on the basis of any actual true 'need'......as demonstrated by the sizeable minorities against the Typhoon program in each of the manufacturing and purchasing countries).



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Would anybody know which is better........ TYPHOON or RAFALE???????

Has there been a one on one engagement?????????
Or national pride would not let this happen?????


Part of the reason the EFA programme fell apart was that France felt the aircraft was too big and overspecced when what they wanted was a lighter and less expensive (and therefore unavoidably less capable) type. Thus France built the Rafale to meet their own needs (it is roughly in the F-16 class, size wise) whilst the bigger Typhoon was produced by the rest of the former EFA partners.

Going by this it would seem natural that the Typhoon has a greater capability than the Rafale but I have seen nothing to substantiate this belief yet.



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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No one here seems to have mentioned the offset considerations, which are usually the single factor that two competing systems boil down to, especially if one or both of them is an American airplane.

In other words, how many Greek jobs will b e created and how many Greek products will be sold as a result of this procurement?

That's the part of a competitive procurement that most people don't pay attention to, because it's not as "sexy" compared to "who makes the coolest airplane".

But it's often things like offset and domestic content which tilt the balance of the procurement decision one way or the other.



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