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Liberals and Democarts VS Conservatives and Republicans- What are the Real issues?

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posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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I am at a point in my life where my views are shifting and I'm defining my personal idiology what will guide me in life! I read and heard about all the political mud (Democarts want . . . , Republicans are asking for . . . ECT.) I want someone to lay out the basic issues in play and where each side stand and a bit of the why. Can anyone do this for me WITHOUT putting a Political Spin on things? I just want the straight, unpolished facts no oppinions. Please, let me form my own oppinions!

Tim




posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 08:02 AM
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If you drop the media labels and view everything through the neutral continuum of libertarian versus authoritarian (which crosses party lines and individual politics on many levels) you will come closest to knowing where you and any politician you review stands.

The authoritarian wing of the far right (for my money) is the fringe minority that runs this country. The overwhelming majority of Americans are more libertarian (including moderates, economic consertatives, all liberals, and all actual libertarians). The fringe authoritarians have come to power through smear and segmentation on meaningless social issues they have no intention of addressing anyway. You know them by the smell of their BS.

I have no idea what you believe or want or think is important and you may very well be an authoritarian. But at least you know where you stand. Even they are better suited for the Constitution Party in my mind. I just can't see a good reason for anyone to ever vote Republican. It's really not in the self interest of any actual regular American to do so (at least 98% of us).

But people do.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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I agree with Rant on the political labels. I don't use one to describe myself because my personal political beliefs cross all the lines, even the libertarian/authoritarian ones. Here is a pretty good test you can take to see where you stand. I'm working on an answer to your question and will post that later.

I commend you for searching.


Political Compass

The red links at the bottom connect you to the evaluation.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Boy, this is a hot subject, eh?
I hope more people respond.


These ideas are very general and probably do in fact contain at least a hint at my personal opinions, but I did my best to be unbiased. I am by no means a political scholar. I have no education in it. This is just what I've picked up in my own personal search. So, if I am mistaken on any particular issue or idea, it is out of my own ignorance and not meant to offend anyone. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

I picked out several issues and I know there are some I haven't covered. Maybe someone else will pick them up.


Border Control, Immigration
Left - usually open to welcoming people into the country under broader restrictions
Right – usually supports enforcing more strict immigration policies and is more concerned losing US citizens’ jobs, etc

Gun Control
Left – Against individual gun owners’ rights, especially more powerful and military-style weapons (police guns and semi-automatics)
Right – Strongly support the second amendment and each person’s right to own and bear arms of whatever type

Economy, Jobs
Left – Everyone should have the opportunity to have a job and the government agencies (welfare) should take care of the people who can’t get jobs
Right – The economy is fine. It’s your responsibility to take care of yourself. If you don’t have a job, it’s your fault

Environment, Energy
Left – Conserve resources, decrease dependency on foreign oil, develop alternative energy sources
Right – No reason to be concerned about the environment, use what the world has to offer, there’s plenty of oil, we just have to buy it or go get it

War on “Insert Elusive Enemy Here”, Drugs, Terror, etc.
Left – These wars on obscure enemies don’t work; need better, more comprehensive solutions
Right – These wars DO work, they just take time, strength, focus and perseverance

Religion in Government
Left – No. Religion has no place in government. Everyone should be free to worship as they please in their homes or house of worship, but it has no place in schools or the legal or political arena
Right – Why not? This is a Christian Nation, founded on Christian values. We need a moral compass for our children and to display our belief in God and family and where our laws came from

Civil Rights: The Patriot Act, Gay Marriage, etc.
Left – Strongly support civil rights for all. Patriot Act is an invasion of privacy, too broad and sweeping and corrupts civil and personal rights
Right – Safety and morality are more important than disgracing marriage with sodomy. It’s against God’s Law and should not be legal. If you aren’t doing anything wrong, then the Patriot act won’t affect you. It’s for our country’s safety

Personal Rights: abortion, (can extend to recreational drug use)
Left – For
Right – Against

Education
Left – Everybody should have access to equal education
Right – If you can afford it, then get a private education. Otherwise go to public school

Families and Children, principals and values
Left – Individual choice, morals and values are important and are taught in the home
Right – Marriage between a man and a woman, Christian values

Welfare and Poverty
Left – Everyone who needs financial support should have access to government programs and health care
Right – People should take more initiative and get jobs and take care of themselves. If you can’t afford another child, don’t have it. Would like to cut down on welfare support of individuals

In general:
Left (Democrat) – liberal (liberties): important issues are equality, environment, leniency, and ending poverty

Right (Republican) –conservative, traditional: important issues are family values, military strength, gun rights and mandate behavior of people by law

Libertarian - Power in Individual Free Will

Authoritarian - Power in Leadership



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Border Control, Immigration
Left - usually open to welcoming people into the country under broader restrictions
Right – usually supports enforcing more strict immigration policies and is more concerned losing US citizens’ jobs, etc


I'm to the right on this one. If we don't protect our broaders, we're asking for another 9/11.


Gun Control
Left – Against individual gun owners’ rights, especially more powerful and military-style weapons (police guns and semi-automatics)
Right – Strongly support the second amendment and each person’s right to own and bear arms of whatever type


We need the second amendment and people should have guns. However, I don't see why the average American needs fully automatic weapons, semi-automatics are fine!


Economy, Jobs
Left – Everyone should have the opportunity to have a job and the government agencies (welfare) should take care of the people who can’t get jobs
Right – The economy is fine. It’s your responsibility to take care of yourself. If you don’t have a job, it’s your fault


Being responsible is completely the responsiballity of the individual. However, we also need a safety net for those who truely can't do anything about their situation (EX: people with severe disabillities, children who are too young to care for themselves)


Environment, Energy
Left – Conserve resources, decrease dependency on foreign oil, develop alternative energy sources
Right – No reason to be concerned about the environment, use what the world has to offer, there’s plenty of oil, we just have to buy it or go get it


We need to use our resorces wisely. Use what you have, but don't be wasteful about it. On the other hand, don't be afraid to use it if you have it.



War on “Insert Elusive Enemy Here”, Drugs, Terror, etc.
Left – These wars on obscure enemies don’t work; need better, more comprehensive solutions
Right – These wars DO work, they just take time, strength, focus and perseverance


These wars extreemly Effective if you take your time planning and proceed with caution. War and military power are a key part of the solution. However, to achieve lasting peace, you also need to plan for building a stable peace, and address long-term issues so that problems don't keep coming back!


Religion in Government
Left – No. Religion has no place in government. Everyone should be free to worship as they please in their homes or house of worship, but it has no place in schools or the legal or political arena
Right – Why not? This is a Christian Nation, founded on Christian values. We need a moral compass for our children and to display our belief in God and family and where our laws came from


First of all, I'm very religious/spiritual! I think good solid spiritual values are very important for children and families. It has an important place in society and rasing our children. However, not everyone is Christian (I'm Native American and fallow the old ways). Therefore it is wrong to push a set view of religion on everyone. All beliefs need to be welcome in our world.


Civil Rights: The Patriot Act, Gay Marriage, etc.
Left – Strongly support civil rights for all. Patriot Act is an invasion of privacy, too broad and sweeping and corrupts civil and personal rights
Right – Safety and morality are more important than disgracing marriage with sodomy. It’s against God’s Law and should not be legal. If you aren’t doing anything wrong, then the Patriot act won’t affect you. It’s for our country’s safety


I'm on the right with this one. Nothing against homosexuals, they can have their relationships, but marrige is for a man and a woman. The Patriot Act is a hairy deal, It's for our country's best, but we need to watch that they don't cross the fine line between national security and invading people's lives. The benefits of the Patriot Act so far have outweighed the drawbacks!


Personal Rights: abortion, (can extend to recreational drug use)
Left – For
Right – Against


I'm for having pesonal rights, but I don't see how killing an unborn person is a personal right! I though there was a social conses that killing is WRONG! Born or Not, A child is a person. A society that allows people to kill a child, just because the child isn't wanted has lost is morle value for human life. If we're still arguing about if it's right or wrong to kill children, our society is further gone then I had imagined.

As for the drug issue, I'm personnaly don't think our young ones should be doing dope, but it not my place to tell others what to do with there own body. Now when it comes to them getting high and trashing the lives of others who want no part of it, that is WRONG!



Education
Left – Everybody should have access to equal education
Right – If you can afford it, then get a private education. Otherwise go to public school


Eduction is the "Great Equlizer" Every child shoud get the best that society can provide. It should NOT matter what family you come from, you should have a chance to get the best and move up in the world if you choose to.


Families and Children, principals and values
Left – Individual choice, morals and values are important and are taught in the home
Right – Marriage between a man and a woman, Christian values


I believe in having a set of social values for all, but spacifics need to be left to the individual.


Welfare and Poverty
Left – Everyone who needs financial support should have access to government programs and health care
Right – People should take more initiative and get jobs and take care of themselves. If you can’t afford another child, don’t have it. Would like to cut down on welfare support of individuals


Being responsible is completely the responsiballity of the individual. However, we also need a safety net for those who truely can't do anything about their situation (EX: people with severe disabillities, children who are too young to care for themselves) We need to be careful to make sure people don't abuse the "Safety Net"

I guess I'm in the middle! So Which party is that?


Tim



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by ghost
I guess I'm in the middle! So Which party is that?


I cannot help you choose a party. I don't even like the party system (see my signature). I do not claim or belong to a party. I vote according to the person and the issues.

Did you take the Political Compass test in my first post? Give it a try. That will really help say which way you lean.



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ghost
I guess I'm in the middle! So Which party is that?


I cannot help you choose a party. I don't even like the party system (see my signature). I do not claim or belong to a party. I vote according to the person and the issues.

Did you take the Political Compass test in my first post? Give it a try. That will really help say which way you lean.



that would be the libertarian party my pet! www.lp.org check their issues out...



posted on Jul, 21 2005 @ 04:07 AM
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If you have a strong sense of economic freedom, you are a Republican. If you think the magic wellfare fairy will sovle all problems, you a Democrat.

Both Democrats and Republicans mix and switch on issues: both are for war on drugs war on terror, dems want more social programs, dems want everyone attending public schools, republicans feel the need to inforce domestic policy, reps tend to stay anti-abortion, and democrats have a feeling that the constitution is outdated.



posted on Jul, 21 2005 @ 05:04 AM
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Liberals and Democarts VS Conservatives and Republicans- What are the Real issues?

Abortation
Iraq
Taxes
Religion
Media
BUSH
Border Control
Cloning
Patriot Act
Prison system
etc..etc...



posted on Jul, 21 2005 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Did you take the Political Compass test in my first post? Give it a try. That will really help say which way you lean.


Yes I did! The political compass was very helpful at showing me what the real issues in play are. In fact, my comment about being right in the middle was based on the resualts of the Political Compass test. When I got the resaults, it showed me "sitting on the fence" between Libereal and Conservative. The resualts were so close that I wasn't sure which is the better choice based on my beliefs. This is why I came back to ask which one might be the best choice for me. The other thing the test showed is that I have some oppinions that are closer to the far ends, then the middle, but over all it balances out and puts me almost dead center in the middle!

Any Thoughts?

Tim



posted on Jul, 21 2005 @ 07:29 AM
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Wow, ghost, that is very interesting. Just so you know, you're not the only one who straddles the party fence.
I am pro-choice (although I would never want my child aborted)
I am an environmentalist
I support civil rights and gay marriage. (all 'left' ideals)
but...
I support firearm ownership
I'm not crazy about the welfare system
and I believe we should clamp down on the borders. (all 'right' ideals)

I don't belong to a party. Never have. When the election comes around, I find out how the candidates feel about the issues that are important to me and vote accordingly. May I ask why you feel the need to choose one party to label yourself with?

[edit on 21-7-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jul, 21 2005 @ 09:31 AM
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[edit on 21-7-2005 by TrueLies]



posted on Jul, 21 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
May I ask why you feel the need to choose one party to label yourself with?
[edit on 21-7-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]


I'm not a member of any party and don't want a label. The day before I started this thread, I had a debate about politics and what the parties stand for. We also discussed to topic of Conservitive VS Liberal. He rasied some valid questions about how I precived the issues that are shaping our world. I Came to this forum to ask for help in understanding the issues that surround the two sides of the topic. I wanted to see what is really going on without all the lies, labels, myths and half-truths that the media hands out. I feel any wise choice on my part requires me to look beyond the lies and find the truth! I wanted to examine what these labels really mean so I'm not stuck trying to guess what is going on behind the scenes. I though having basic terms like liberal and conservitive explaine to me would help create some perspective! I wanted to look at where I fall and if any of the parties really adress the issues that are important to me.

Thanks for the help and the explainations! Now I know what to look for in political debates when deciding what I want to do with my vote!

Tim

Tim



posted on Jul, 21 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Well, as I said before, good for you for really doing your homework.
I hope we have helped.



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