Russia to launch new F/A-22 competetor, page 3

privacy

Pages: << 1 2 3 4 5 6 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 0 times

reply posted on 20-7-2005 @ 07:09 PM by Hockeyguy567

I have no doubt whatsoever that Russia have the resources and the potential to build this plane that they speak of (& you guys make fun of).

I agree with you, I have no doubt either. However, I do have doubts about their economy, especially when 1/3 of their people are unemployed and the Russian military is suffering from malnutrition.

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 12:57 AM by Daedalus3

I read somewhere that russia has the 3rd/4th largest forex reserves in the world and the 9th largest currnecy reserves..

THey got the money and oil alright

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 06:57 AM by matej

If the Sukhoi T50 be really build, it will be in the Su-27 or F-22 class. I MEAN SIZE. The smaller multirole aircraft in the MiG-29 class will be build at MiG. See the interview with Vladimir Barkovskiy here

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 12:05 PM by Figher Master FIN

Good to have a russian plane specialist on ATS...

But what about the
Su-37...?

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 02:05 PM by prelude

Originally posted by Blackout
[Russia isn't the 2nd largest spender:

www.globalsecurity.org...
.

that's only one source(rather Estimate) I can give many other sources that claim Russia is the secong largest spender
here is one of them
Russian budget :
www.strategypage.com...

chinese buget
www.strategypage.com...

moreover Russia dosent officially publiush defense budjet (china does ) ...Russian budget is an estimate of defense analysts ....so diff orgs estimate diff values ....but the matter of fact is most of the orgs accept that the russian defense budjet is the second highest

more over all these are 2004 estimates ...the Russian govt officially inscreased the defense spending in 2005 by 40% and in 2006 the spending is schduled to increase by 40%

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 02:24 PM by jonesey_dude

Russia has the potential to build a plane equal to the F-22, Unlike the west, Russia dont need anexcuse for a huge defence budget because its always been like that. So they could fund a project to build a plane equal to the F-22. Because they will make a huge ammount of money from sales to China, India and other countrys because there all so scared of the Raptor. So Russia would actually be making a huge ammount of money in the long run for a Plane like this. The expenses spent on research and development will be made back 10 fold.

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 03:59 PM by NWguy83

Originally posted by jonesey_dude
Russia has the potential to build a plane equal to the F-22, Unlike the west, Russia dont need anexcuse for a huge defence budget because its always been like that. So they could fund a project to build a plane equal to the F-22. Because they will make a huge ammount of money from sales to China, India and other countrys because there all so scared of the Raptor. So Russia would actually be making a huge ammount of money in the long run for a Plane like this. The expenses spent on research and development will be made back 10 fold.

Saying it would be cheaper, and actually being cheaper is a rare thing. Stealth they might be able to equal, but not computer ability. Raptor has the equivalent of two Crey supercomputers on board. not too mention it's radar. And Russia's plane wouldn't enter service for 10 years.

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 04:18 PM by jetsetter

Originally posted by prelude

Originally posted by Blackout
[Russia isn't the 2nd largest spender:

www.globalsecurity.org...
.

that's only one source(rather Estimate) I can give many other sources that claim Russia is the secong largest spender
here is one of them
Russian budget :
www.strategypage.com...

chinese buget
www.strategypage.com...

moreover Russia dosent officially publiush defense budjet (china does ) ...Russian budget is an estimate of defense analysts ....so diff orgs estimate diff values ....but the matter of fact is most of the orgs accept that the russian defense budjet is the second highest

more over all these are 2004 estimates ...the Russian govt officially inscreased the defense spending in 2005 by 40% and in 2006 the spending is schduled to increase by 40%

strategypage is a very bad, bad site to quote. They have been wrong on many occasions and is not thought of as a real source in the military discussion comunity.

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 05:10 PM by Nordix

Lol people you keep on talking about Russia's economy and you're guessing if it will or won't have enough money to build these planes... Don't worry, oil prices and Indian, Malaysian market will do its job. It's actually not the point, every time you discuss new technologies you end up talking about the economy. No matter will there be any sufficient funds to build the plane or won't, it has already been developed.

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 05:39 PM by Hockeyguy567

strategypage is a very bad, bad site to quote. They have been wrong on many occasions and is not thought of as a real source in the military discussion comunity.

I agree with you on that, but some of the people on the forums have a ton of knoweledge.

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 06:58 PM by Blackout

Originally posted by prelude

Originally posted by Blackout
[Russia isn't the 2nd largest spender:

www.globalsecurity.org...
.

that's only one source(rather Estimate) I can give many other sources that claim Russia is the secong largest spender
here is one of them
Russian budget :
www.strategypage.com...

chinese buget
www.strategypage.com...

moreover Russia dosent officially publiush defense budjet (china does ) ...Russian budget is an estimate of defense analysts ....so diff orgs estimate diff values ....but the matter of fact is most of the orgs accept that the russian defense budjet is the second highest

more over all these are 2004 estimates ...the Russian govt officially inscreased the defense spending in 2005 by 40% and in 2006 the spending is schduled to increase by 40%

LOL if you're just going to source spam me (although I already had linked you with a CREDIBLE source compared to yours btw):

www.scaruffi.com...
64.177.207.201...
www.worldthreats.com...

And this one doesn't have a list, but it's in the last sentence:

Among non-Nato nations, Japan spent US $46.9 billion on defense in 2003, The People's Republic of China, US$ 32.8 billion, and Russia, US $13 billion, (5%, 4%, and 1% of the world total, respectively).

en.wikipedia.org...

And don't tell me it was only one source. I don't need to source spam everytime I'm trying to prove something, correct? In fact, any list that you find that has Russia as the second largest spender is probably an outdated list.

I'm not sure why you're comparing China's budget in this, but I'm pretty sure that they're the second largest spender:

The Pentagon said China could now be spending up to $90bn a year on defence, and that its military build-up put regional balances at risk.

news.bbc.co.uk...

By the way, the US dumps $76 billion into procurement and $60 billion into R&D (Source). Those numbers alone are higher than that of ANY other country's military budget (aside from maybe China's if they really are spending $90 billion). So if the USA's R&D budget is higher than everyone else's military budget, then I would find it difficult for another country whose TOTAL military budget is lower than that of the USA's R&D budget to have so quickly have come out with a Raptor counter. Let's not forget that our procurement budget is also higher than the military budget of any other country; yet, we are able to only service so many Raptors.

I don't doubt that this new plane will be amazing in many respects, but it just can't be a Raptor counter. It'll probably outperform all the 4th gen planes of today, so I'm presuming that this plane will be somewhere between 4th and 5th generation.

[edit on 21-7-2005 by Blackout]

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 07:54 PM by Seekerof

Originally posted by Figher Master FIN
Good to have a russian plane specialist on ATS... But what about the
Su-37...?

Su-37 is not in the equivalent of the F-22.
One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that the US air philosophy is somewhat different from the Russian philosophy, in regards to a Su-37 and F-22 comparison. The F-22 philosophy is stealth, coupled with maneuverability, but emphasis on BVR: 'first see, first kill' or 'first to detect, first shot.' The Russian Su-37 philosophy, so to speak, is that of maneuverability, little to no stealth, and close in air combat, with BVR taking a secondary role, per se.'

seekerof

[edit on 21-7-2005 by Seekerof]

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 07:58 PM by Seekerof

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567
I agree with you on that, but some of the people on the forums have a ton of knoweledge.

Agreed, but in making an objective determination, say in the case of national budgets, all sources, just not one, as prelude is doing and providing, should be gleaned/utilized to arrive at a well educated balanced estimation. Agreed?

seekerof

[edit on 21-7-2005 by Seekerof]

reply posted on 21-7-2005 @ 09:48 PM by COWlan

Both Russia and China aren't telling the public how much they are really spending. Russia need a lot of money just to keep a fraction of the Soviet arsenal working, which is a LOT of stuff, but Russia isn't spending that much, you could see it from their Navy, Army and AF mothballing. The 1 Kirov in service, the Typhoons taken out of service, the Oscars, the .............................

China isn't spending 90 Billion either, you could see that, we aren't getting massive amounts of any military equipment, You might see 052C, 052B, 054, 054A class of new warships but they're only getting built in twos at a time. When China builds 6 destroyers and 6 frigates in a year, then I'll believe that China is spending 90 Bil a year. Me from my personal opinion only thinks that China spends 60 or 50 Bils a year but not anywhere close to 90 Bil, thats just a number that the Pentagon use to get more funding. But then again, you'd never know, especially from a country like China which basically has its mouth superglued shut and secrecy on everything it does.

reply posted on 22-7-2005 @ 12:31 PM by prelude

There are many other military/non military sources claiming the same (russia 2nd largest spender )

I don’t have the time to google them all out
but here is one of them
www.globalissues.org...

these are 2003 figures since then both countries have supposedly increased their military spending …I don’t know how much China has increased but Russia has increased it by 40% in 2005 and the further 40% increase is expected in 2006 according to govt sources .

To the ones claiming that strategy page is not a good source ……can you provide a source confirming your claim….LOL ….I personally don’t always go for sources to form my opinion (I do smthing which u people call analysis) …but here in this forum there are some extraordinary brains who only go for sources for personal identity …so I expect them to be true to themselves

Apart from this I want some info from someone in this forum who has got some good knowledge in economics (I don’t)

Here is my question :

Are these US dollar estimates of military budgets made by directly converting the national currency (say yen or rubles ) in USD according to the market exchange rates ?
---if this is the case then both Russia and China are spending more than estimated .. because both the countries devaluate their national currency for economic reasons …any opinion?

reply posted on 22-7-2005 @ 12:50 PM by Stealth Spy

Yes i agree; 1$ can do more in Russia(& many other nations) than what it can in the USA

reply posted on 22-7-2005 @ 01:30 PM by Blackout

I'm not an economist, but wouldn't devalueing the currency mean that it would cost them more?

I was also under the impression that the US Dollar was still stronger than the Russian Ruble and Chinese Yuan? Can anyone confirm this?

reply posted on 22-7-2005 @ 01:44 PM by Stealth Spy

Russian Defense spending to be raised 40% in 2005

reply posted on 22-7-2005 @ 05:35 PM by Seekerof

And Stealth Spy?
From your above linked article:

Mr. Putin said the Russian government set a goal of strengthening the country’s defense capability, Channel One reported. According to him, defense spending will also be increased significantly in 2005. [bThe Russian Defense Ministry’s budget is RUR 380bn (about $13.1bn) in 2004.

You are aware that the US military budget is still about 6+ times larger?

As was posted, Stealth Spy and prelude, apparently the Russians cannot handle this "F/A-22 competitor" program alone?
Sukhoi asks Europe for fighter help

By the time that Russia, and those involved in this, get around to getting this project out of the design phase, built, tested, and then serial produced, the F-22 Raptor will have been in service about how many years, having implemented how many Block increases/improvements?