Yeah baby! - "Congressman: Mecca a possible retaliation target"

Why? Because we need main streem MUSLIM help keeping that from happening. If the entire Muslim community believed that this would be the response from the USA if a Islamic group used a nuke, then they themselves would do everything they could to keep the radicals among them in check

i really dont understand the logic of this argument. So please, enlighten me.
I am a muslim. I have hardly no money, i dont have any power, apart from over my children in a parental way. I dont know any "radicals", even though i know muslims who are egyptian, pakistani, afghanistani, british (me), iranian, indian and somalian, none of them have EVER expressed a desire to kill innocent people. All i hear about is governments, not innocent people. (not killing governments....just disagreeing with them)
Please tell me skippy....how do i, as a muslim...do what you suggest?
This is not meant to be an antagonistic question....i am seriously interested in how you wish me to pursue this action.
If you want my honest opinion, if i ever got hold of these people, they WOULD know how i felt about them hijacking my religion. BUt as i dont know any, what can i do?

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
xmotex, radical Islam Hates America because we're a Christian nation and we're the ONLY ones standing in their way along with a few allies.

They have Hated us Christians Loooonnngggg before we had Nuclear weapons, so try and use a better arguement next time.


Maximu§

America a Christian Nation?

Try this Christian hat for size: It's called the "thou shalt not kill hat"

Does the hat fit?

Originally posted by skippytjc
Thye hated Christians LONG before the USA existed...

...And You have Learned that from... FOX NEWS?

Or your Usual Ultra Right Wing Internet Source?

Souljah,
That is not a political veiw but one that is based on history.
a qucik search of the web of checking of any school history books (even in islamic nations) easily demonstrate a long running emnity between christians and muslims.
Here is a quick note from the 5 minute search that I just did:

Bernard Lewis' Cultures in Conflict: Christians, Muslims, and Jews in the Age of Discovery reminds us that many current questions have ancient roots. In fact, the conflicts Lewis examines were already eight hundred years old by the time the Age of Discovery began in 1492. Islamic conquerors had spread out of Arabia and acrosss Palestine, North Africa, and much of Spain by 711, less than a century after Muhammad's birth. The relations of Christians, Jews, and Muslims around the Mediterranean were tumultuous for centuries, and still have consequences-in the Balkans, for instance-that we need to understand if we are to cope with politics and conflict today.

Cultures in Conflict

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
America a Christian Nation?

Try this Christian hat for size: It's called the "thou shalt not kill hat"

Does the hat fit?

Actually the original hebrew translates more into "Thou shalt not commit murder". It's been bastardized into thou shall not kill, which was not the intent of the commandment. Murder is indeed wrong, killing is not always a sin, as the poor chicken that made the ultimate sacrifice last night to feed my family will attest to.

This is so ridiculous.

Firstly attacks on religious icons only generate new ones; that's the whole point of symbolism.
It's nothing tangible it is a symbol.

Secondly for those who go along with this 'Hitlerian', 'get it over with', 'boil lancing' simplistic childish rubbish I suggest you look at what happened in Germany where it was tried.
Over-looking the ruin and overwhelming tragedy this brought.....
Jews didn't actually vanish and the following generations (barring the tiny % of nutters on the fringe) have a genuine and deep loathing and sense of shame for what their forefathers did.

Some solution.

Blind lashing out and becoming the multi-million murderer is no 'answer'.

Souljah, the Muslims have been trying to invade Christian lands for centuries including the Moors in Spain and the Turkish hordes that were finally defeated in Austria giving rise to the croissant roll. Christians also invaded Muslim lands during the crusades. To say Muslim/Christian aggression began with the U.S.A. is ridiculous and wholly inaccurate.

If he learned that fact from FOX, then I applaud FOX for being a far better source of info than wherever you get yours from.

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by skippytjc
Thye hated Christians LONG before the USA existed...

...And You have Learned that from... FOX NEWS?

Or your Usual Ultra Right Wing Internet Source?

I dont watch Fox news, Fox is no better than your precious Aljazeera. And you actualy question that Jihad and wars between Muslims and Christians havent been going on for centuries?

...And you have learned that from....Aljazeera News?

Or you usual ultra left wing commie terrorist supporting source?

Originally posted by geek101
i really dont understand the logic of this argument. So please, enlighten me.
I am a muslim... I dont know any "radicals", even though i know muslims who are egyptian, pakistani, afghanistani, british (me), iranian, indian and somalian, none of them have EVER expressed a desire to kill innocent people....
Please tell me skippy....how do i, as a muslim...do what you suggest?

And illustrated nicely here is the crux of the ignorance inherent in the religious hate and racism spewed out by the likes of our friend skippy. Guilt by association; blanket responsibility for billions of people because of the actions of the few. This is the absolute pinnacle of ignorance, and constitutes proof that the theory of evolution is bogus - we are in fact devolving. And the scary thing is, people who endorse the playground justice that skippy is propagating here are in positions of great power in some of our governments.

You have a very young son, do you not skippy? How can you look at him and then turn around to spew out all this hate as you do? Do you have no concern for the future of the world that your little boy is going to grow up in - little enough concern that you would cheerfully start WWIII simply because you are afraid, because of your misdirected yearnings for revenge, because of your frustration at fighting an invisible enemy that was seeded and created by your very own government?

Or are you simply a racist troll?

Its morons like that Congressman who have created the situation that we find ourselves in. Right now we have maybe a hundred thousand Muslim extremests throughout the world. If we start obliterating their Holy Sites we will have a few hundred million. In the eyes of the majority of Muslims the US is not thought of that badly. Watch that change in a hurry if this happens. I am not saying that I don't favor retailiation but I think that we can come up with a better target list than this.

Originally posted by Kriz_4
So destroy something of worship for millions/billions because of what a few did?

Sick morons. You would have every muslim on the planet beying for the US' to be destroyed, is that what you want? I expect so, give you racists an excuse to kill all those A Rabs eh.

Yehaw, gotta love the red neck cowboys.

[edit on 18-7-2005 by Kriz_4]

Exactly! It would be like nuking the Church of the Holy Sepulchre because of a minority of extremist Christians, or nuking Temple Mount because of some extremist Zionists (oxymoron?). This is the most ridiculous thread and that Congressman has his head up his a*s - and so does anyone who says "yeah, baby!" in agreement. You call yourselves God-fearing for crying out loud???? Then you wonder why America is hated????? I cannot even begin to describe the level of my disgust when I read things like this.

You know, this thread has prompted me to visit an Islamic information centre within walking distance of my house. Just walking by the other day, I read some information in the window about Muslims and that they believe in Jesus and consider him a prophet, like Mohammed - I never knew this. I want to learn more about this faith so that I can deny much of the hateful ignorance I see being spewed daily at ATS.



[edit on 19/7/05 by AlwaysLearning]

The "Nuke Mecca" idea has been around for a while. But IMO not likely to happen unless the damage to the US was severe, and it was found that "Mecca" was responsible. Of course I'm sure they'll have pictures of 19 countries responsible up on TV within 48 hours after the 3 US cities got nuked.

How many Americans would have to die before we reached a "Nuke Mecca" threshold? A million? 10 million?

Our government and military acts based partly on "what if" scenarios quite regularly. For example, we build, locate and target weapons according to current threats and "what if" scenarios. Which makes me wonder exactly what they have planned in retaliation for just such a "what if" event.

To all who have to ehemm compensate by wording their replies in a bad-ass "lets nuke 'em" way: thank God you are nobody. You can yell and scream as much as you want on a message board, Mecca won't be nuked. That is reality.

Mecca is a holy place of all Muslims, not just radical ones.
The key to defeating radical islam are those other Muslims who are not radicals. So, destroying THEIR holy site is about the dumbest thing one could do, ergo it won't happen. Deal with it.

Are you really that naive to think that you could stop radicals from attacking people by threatening to bomb Mecca?
I mean, come on. This is not some crappy Hollywood movie, this is reality. In reality these radicals thrive on ideas like that one. They don't care about holy places, they care about limiting political influence of secularism in their countries. They USE religion as a tool to control people, so nuking holy site would be very much welcomed by them as a PERFECT way to get more muslims on their side.
It would also be a perfect thing to DIVIDE western world, since most sane people in the west wouldn't support such action. It would create an even further destabilisation of the world, exactly the thing extremists are trying to achieve.

So, I suggest you all inform yourself about how reality really works, before you scream "yeah baby".

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Our government and military acts based partly on "what if" scenarios quite regularly. For example, we build, locate and target weapons according to current threats and "what if" scenarios. Which makes me wonder exactly what they have planned in retaliation for just such a "what if" event.

The plan...

You might be interested in reading this article...quite a frightening read, but I do see the writing on the wall:

American Terror

Be afraid of your government....very, very, afraid because its all coming true.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
To say Muslim/Christian aggression began with the U.S.A. is ridiculous and wholly inaccurate.

Where have you Seen me Say That?

Originally posted by Souljah
Where have you Seen me Say That?

It looks like you disputed that fact offered by skippy:

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by skippytjc
Thye hated Christians LONG before the USA existed...

...And You have Learned that from... FOX NEWS?

Or your Usual Ultra Right Wing Internet Source?

You guys forget about the entire Cold War.

Mutual Annihilation was a situation that kept each enemy in check. Basically the wrong move would mean your destruction as well as your enemies. As terrible as this sounds, it worked for the USA and Russia beautifully. The Cold War is over and we are all still here.

Threatening Mecca with a nuclear attack if we are the subject of a nuclear attack is the same exact tactic. It FORCES each side to think about the consequences of their actions, hopefully to the point of alternate choice making.

Since radical Islam has no single country of origin, a target of grave significance must be chosen. Mecca is the only choice.

You haters are missing the entire point to all of this. Not one American wants to bomb Mecca or open that can of worms. But not one American will tolerate a nuclear attack on our people. But you guys hate Americans to the point where you could care less if we get attacked, you only care of we retaliate.

You also fail to see who needs to take the responsibility for Islamic terrorists and Islamic extremists: Islam does. Muslims need to police their own. Any group that has perpetrated a terrorist attack in the name of Allah needs to be policed by the entire Muslim community. Muslims need to bring them to justice and make it stop, not the West. But, as I mentioned in another reply, only Pakistan has done anything.

But when the West defends itself, because nobody else is doing anything about it, you haters cry out against the USA. At no point do you make the Muslim community take responsibility for their own. Now, obviously the vast majority of Muslims aren’t extremists, but the extreme are still part of their faith and thus all Muslims responsibility.

MUSLIM EXTREMISM IS THE FAULT OF ISLAM, not the West. We don’t blame Islam for child molesting Catholic clergy do we? We blame the Catholic Church for it.

Well ill tell you what: As a voting US citizen, I give my government a free pass to do whatever it pleases to keep me and my family safe from these extremists. No matter what. And I will feel this way until the mainstream Muslim world can, or cares to, get a handle on the extremists among them.

It seems the ONLY way to FORCE Islam to manage thier own, is to threaten what they hold dearest. Because its perfectly clear that Islam cares nothing for us, as they as a whole have done nothing to stop Islamic Extremism.

Muslims are responsible for the actions of their own, just like every other group in the world. Until they realize this and take action, bombing Mecca IF the USA is attacked is just fine with me. Id like to press the button if they let me…




[edit on 19-7-2005 by skippytjc]

I can't believe that any elected official would make such a foolish statement.

Right now we have untold resources pouring into negotiations to convince Islamic leaders to
help the world to disclose these extremist terror factions and this train of thought does nothing to
improve relations.

The resulting extremist propaganda will only be used to fuel more hatred of western civilization.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
It looks like you disputed that fact offered by skippy

I Disputed that "Fact" Because I find it Incorret - not meaning that the Holy War Started with the US.

In my Opinion its was more the Other Way Around.

[edit on 19/7/05 by Souljah]

Soul, you deny that Muslims have had extremists among them before the USA existed? Are you for real?

The USA did not create extreme Muslims, they were around long before the USA was.

But that doesnt mean anything to you, as it goes against your opinions. USA is evil, they created all the bad in the world. Everything was utopia prior to the USA.

Broken record...