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TA-INDIVIDUALS: Top German Court rules EU Arrest Warrant Invalid

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posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 08:31 AM
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Germanys Federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe has ruled that the European arrest warrant violates the German constitution and the basic rights of the suspect, Mamoun Darkazanli, and was thus invalid in Germany making it impossible for Spain to extradite him in connection with the train bombings in Spain. Darkazanli, 46, who has citizenship in both Syria and Germany, is accused by Spanish authorities of providing al-Qaida operatives with both financial and logistical support in connection with the Madrid train bombings.
 



edition.cnn.com
BERLIN, Germany -- Germany's high court has ordered the release of a Syrian-born German man whom Spain wanted extradited in connection with the 2003 Madrid bombings.

The Federal Constitutional Court ruled Monday it would be illegal to extradite Mamoun Darkazanli, a Hamburg-based businessman, because the country's constitution bars Germans from being extradited against their will.

[….]

The ruling effectively strikes down Germany's agreement to adopt last year's European Union accord on extradition.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I am willing to bet all of al-Quida will now set up operations in Germany, using German citizens so they can leave the country; commit crimes all over Europe and run home to Germany knowing they cannot be extradited or prosecuted.

Darkazani is also wanted in connection with the attacks of 911. I wonder if this will mean the US can not seek extradition?

Welcome to Germany; the new temporary haven for al-Quida Operatives.






[edit on 7/18/2005 by shots]




posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Interesting...

I guess this is another blow to the political unity of the EU.



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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He can still be tried within Germany. Lets not jump to conclusions eh?

If their constitution protects citizens rights then wheres the harm? Can Germany be convinced that their citizens rights will be protected by the extraditing country? If not they should be allowed to try their citizens themselves.

[edit on 18/7/05 by subz]



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 08:48 AM
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I think the issue is with two things primarily.

1.) Interogation methods used by the countries who would be seeking extradition.

2.) Sentencing guidelines, evidenciary procedures, and detainment protocols not in keeping with Germany's standards for treatment of suspects.

I don't blame them honestly. I, for one, hope they pursue the spirit of the law and deliver justice, if for no other reason than to show how it's done properly.



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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Subz says
He can still be tried within Germany. Lets not just to conclusions eh?


Interesting thought; but I doubt it will fly, since the crime was not commited in Germany therefore no German law was violated.


[edit on 7/18/2005 by shots]



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 08:53 AM
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The Germans have statutes against conspiracy to commit murder, no?

There was a crime commited by Germans, in Germany. Why not let the German system handle it?



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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There was a crime commited by Germans, in Germany. Why not let the German system handle it?


Yes I would agree with you if the crimes were commited in Germany of course they could convict them. That would not be the case here, they could go to Spain etc., commit crimes and then return home to avoid conviction, that is in essence what had taken place here.

According to the story Germany has now released him, did you miss that part?



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 09:19 AM
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No, I didn't.

Didja miss this part?



German police questioned him shortly after the attacks on New York, but he was freed for lack of evidence and continued to live in Hamburg.


(my emphasis)

The Germans are probably afraid that if they ship him out, he'll wind up in an Egyptian torture chamber.

They're just trying to protect their citizen from undue hardship related to a crime he appears innocent of.

They're doing their job and protecting their people.



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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It's not really anything major.

Germany will now bring a new bill through or the European Parliament will to correct these laws so that they can be deported. It'll just take a while longer than people had hoped.



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 09:27 AM
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Didn't Germany have a pre-existing bilateral extradition treaty with Spain, the EU notwithstanding?

This seems quite odd to me...

[edit on 7/18/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne




German police questioned him shortly after the attacks on New York, but he was freed for lack of evidence and continued to live in Hamburg.


(my emphasis)

The Germans are probably afraid that if they ship him out, he'll wind up in an Egyptian torture chamber.

They're just trying to protect their citizen from undue hardship related to a crime he appears innocent of.

They're doing their job and protecting their people.


I highly doubt Spain would send someone to Eqypt. The US perhaps, but Spain no.

What bothers me with regard to evidence is that in some countries certain evidence is not admissable under their laws; while it would be in other countries.

There in lies the one big problem preventing prosecution in lets say Germany, as was the case here. Now the man is free to go out and commit more crimes in other countries only to return to Germany to seek shelter.

Now it would be nice if the German government kept them under lock and key until the issue is resolved, but as it stands now, he could enter France, blow up the Eiffel Tower or some other famous landmark and run back across the border laughing alll the way.



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 10:16 AM
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shots
I understand your concern, but understand mine (concerns shared by Germany I'm sure, or we wouldn't be having this discussion).

Spain covered up the Madrid bombings. They literally deleted the evidence and threw their hands up in the air.

The man in question was friends with the Sept 11 hijackers, who are innocent in the eyes of most europeans since they're still alive.

It's also possible that this man has information or evidence regarding one of the aformentioned coverups.

Or, this is a strong possibility, Germany is trying to prevent attacks on their soil by treading lightly on the sensibilities of terrorists. You can't realy blame them for wanting to prevent tragedy in their country.

And on a lighter note, I couldn't care less if someone blows up the Eiffel tower, that thing is nothing more than a phallic eyesore.



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Spain covered up the Madrid bombings. They literally deleted the evidence and threw their hands up in the air.



I must have missed that story; do you perhaps have a link to verify what you are saying is correct?
Google came up empty using "Madrid covered up" bombings

Thanks

And I agree on the tower



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 06:50 AM
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Lets face it, with no evidence, the guy is a free man.

I know this may be a hard concept for our US-based bretheren, y'know, evidence for
committing crimes (cough, cough....Did anyone say Guantanamo Bay ahem!)

Fair trials, proof of suspiscion, evidence against the suspect that withstands lawful review.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:06 PM
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Stevie_Nottm

buddy, and evidence for war crimes at gitmo is lacking(excluding one incdent)

[edit on 20-7-2005 by asala]



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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namehere, he also might be talking about the "Fair trials, proof of suspiscion, evidence against the suspect that withstands lawful review" part. Not on the War Crimes part.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:27 PM
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I wouldn't make something like that up.

www.guardian.co.uk...


Spain's former prime minister José María Aznar wiped all computer records at his office referring to the March 11 Madrid train bombings and the rest of his period of government, his successor José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero said yesterday.


or
news.bbc.co.uk...


the outgoing PP administration wiped computers of information before they left - particularly material relating to the 11 March attacks



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by shots

Subz says
He can still be tried within Germany. Lets not just to conclusions eh?


Interesting thought; but I doubt it will fly, since the crime was not commited in Germany therefore no German law was violated.


[edit on 7/18/2005 by shots]



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by shots

Subz says
He can still be tried within Germany. Lets not just to conclusions eh?


Interesting thought; but I doubt it will fly, since the crime was not commited in Germany therefore no German law was violated.


[edit on 7/18/2005 by shots]
that's why an international court is the answer; having an unbias judge and investigator is the fair and balanced approach; Let's face it both principles havve every reason to end the process quickly; maybe at the exspense of an innocent man



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by lightnefthat's why an international court is the answer; having an unbias judge and investigator is the fair and balanced approach; Let's face it both principles havve every reason to end the process quickly; maybe at the exspense of an innocent man


I disagree international and EU courts in general do not and in some cases cannot deal out justice as it should be.

Take the Afgan warlord that was convicted yesterday in the UK. He killed at least 10 people perhaps more and only got 20 years for his crimes. You do the math, that comes out to be 2 years each; hardly what I would call true justice. Now if he had been deported to his own country he could have gotten death which is what he deserved.

news.yahoo.com.../afp/20050719/wl_uk_afp/britainafghanistanjustice_050719160449




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