The Ritual for Baptisim, page 1

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 11:23 PM

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Does anyone know where the Ritual for Baptisim comes from? I know John the baptist use this, but I had heard a while back, but can not remember where, that it originaly started in Egypt.
Can anyone verify this?

Jehosephat

posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 01:58 AM

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Baptising could have origins anywhere including the first person to ever take a bath in a body of water. It is derived from a greek word meaning: To dip, bathe or wash

Probly want to look closer to a ritual cleansing, which is probly going to be in any religion out there that has easy acess to a liquid

Chasrac64

posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 03:40 AM

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Thanks for the post.
I know about how and why the Jews do this, but didnt know just how an why it started in Egypt? Like say if I go to be baptized, then maybe before I would do this I would want to know how it originated first, You know what I mean? to research the origins of it first, where would one start?

jake1997

posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 05:07 AM

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The first baptism mentioned in the bible is in Genesis (7), but its not called baptism.

Same with Exodus when the Jews pass through the Red Sea.

Finally, the last prophet of the OT, John the Baptist shows us what it was all about, and then Jesus is baptized, and we are told to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

babloyi

posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 06:04 AM

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Never understood the purpose of baptism in Christianity. Baptism isn't necessary to be "Saved", but Jesus WAS baptised, and Christians are supposed to be baptised in the name of "The Father, Son and Holy Spirit". How does it go? If you don't get baptised in water, no harm comes to you, BUT you should get baptised, because Jesus said to.

Sounds suspiciously like the "works" system that so many Christians vehemently deny.

Most ancient religions have connections with ritual washing. Generally it is due to the presence of a sacred river or lake (The Ganges for the Hindus and Nile for the ancient Egyptians comes to mind). Later on, I suppose that the ritual became "portable" and could be performed anywhere.
I dunno..just a theory. But hey, anything that encourages cleanliness can't be bad.

[edit on 18-7-2005 by babloyi]

Jehosephat

posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 11:41 AM

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It is called a secrement: A rite ordained by Christ or by the church as an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace

Nothing to do with works, when it is a rite to show something that is allready there

helen670

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 01:56 AM

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As the Lord Himself said, in His discourse with Nicodemus, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God (John 3:5)

In the Old Testament, circumcision was the prototype of the Sacrament of Baptism in the New Testament, by which the believer enters into a new covenant with God (Col. 2:11-12).
If circumcision was performed in the Old Testament on all males, adult and infant (being prescribed for infants on the 8th Day after birth), so much the more, according to the grace of the new covenant, the Sacrament of Baptism should be administered to infants.

Let the children come to Me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 19:14).

As St. Paul says, we are called upon to confess one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism (Eph. 4:5).
Psalm 31 is read after the Immersion in Water.....read in Church at Babtism ......
Through immersion, Christ Himself was baptized; through immersion, the first preachers of Christianity baptized (see Acts 8:37-38)
by being immersed thrice in the font, he who is being baptized is buried with Christ unto death and then rises together with Him unto life eternal (Romans 6:4).

And as Jake and others have said in this thread.........it is a pre-figuration of the Old Testament cleansing with water....which is found in the Old testament all throughout ,starting from Genesis ....
quote///
It was created on the first day (Genesis 1:2, 6-8).
The Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters (Genesis 1:2).
The earth was founded upon the waters (Genesis 1:6-7, 9-10).
God commanded the water to bring out an abundance of living souls (Genesis 1:20-21).....much ,much more.....The Meaning of Water in Christianity......
orthodoxeurope.org...

The Baptism of Christ represents another depiction of the Holy Trinity.
God the Father spoke, God the Holy Spirit descended as a dove and God the Son was immersed, establishing the sacrament of Baptism.
The appearance of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove recalls the Old Testament flood when a dove was sent forth from the Ark to see if the earth was ready for the renewal of life.
The rite of Baptism symbolizes death, burial and rebirth and thus the cave in the icon foreshadows Christ's tomb....
The FLOOD......prefiguration of cleansing with water.....
many more.....
The Old Testament symbolism of water actually prefigures the new baptismal mystery. Christ says that water is a means to a new spiritual birth into the kingdom of heaven (John 3:5).
He gives living water which is the source of eternal life (John 4:10-14; 7:38; cf. Jeremiah 2:13).
Christ comes in water, blood, and Spirit, witnessing to one God (1 John 5:6-8). He commands watery baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19).
When speaking about baptism, Paul states that in water we are buried with our sins in the likeness of Christ’s death:

IX
helen

babloyi

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 06:43 AM

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See, now I am confused. Is Baptism necessary, or not?

Chasrac64

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 12:25 PM

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Actually it started originally in Egypt, I could not remember where I had read this, I know what they say in the Bible, I was wanting to try to find the origins of this. This is an OLD ritual, that goes way back, John The Baptist was taught this in Egypt, This is where he learned it.
so its an old egyptian ritual

Jehosephat

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 09:14 PM

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Originally posted by babloyi
See, now I am confused. Is Baptism necessary, or not?

It is easy to get confused, I am just glad we are not talking about holy communion.

Baptism is not neccesary to arrive in heaven. Babtism makes it easier to get into heaven. Catholics belive it is the way to get rid of original sin. While others belive it is a way to strengthen the holy spirit inside of you, and make sure you follow the right paths.

It would be wrong to say that unbabtized people never go into heaven, becasue only God can see thier heart and if they believe in him.

Personally I think all christians should learn how to give emergancy babtisum. To me it is just as improtant to saving lives like as is CPR (which I am also certified to do) Just think, I could save a persons soul and thier life. Its a win-win!

Chasrac64

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:58 PM

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Originally posted by Jehosephat[/ Catholics belive it is the way to get rid of original sin.

Just what is the original sin, btw?

helen670

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 11:22 PM
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Babtism is part of being 'born again' which means you are born again in the cleansing process of being accepted by Christ.
Born again meaning that you are immersed into the water......three times and babtised in thename of the Father,Son and Holy spirit.This signifies that you are BORN for a second time ......the original SIN was SPIRITUAL DEATH that came through Adam and Eve(everyone grows old and dies)the BABTISM is the second re-birth where the Original Spiritual Death (fallen away from God,and not being ALLOWED to get close to God)get's WASHED away allowing one to be born in Christ(He was babtised and Cruccified ,taking the Original Sin of Adam and Eve (Spiritual death)into Himself for us to be born again.....Babtism is what makes you a Christian(It's a Sacrement...which means that this needs to be done)
Jesus Christ told His Disciples to go out and Babtise all in the name of the Father Son and Holy spirit.
The Sacrement of Babtism is God-instituted.Jesus Christ established it.The Apostles enforced and transmitted it to the Church.
During Babtism a death and resurrectiontake place, a birth,or rather a re-birth.
First a death takes place,that's why he who is babtised must totally be immersed in the water font, because this immersion symbolizes death.
What death?
The death of the ''Old ,sinful man'' .
St Paul describes the spiritual death....''so many of us as were babtised into Jesus Christ were babtised into his death:that like Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father,even so we also should walk in the newness of life. For if we have planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also of his resurrection :knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,that the body of sin might be destroyed,that henceforth we should not serve sin'' (Rom .6,3-6)

Personally I think all christians should learn how to give emergancy babtism.

Yes, this is allowed ONLY when there is an emergency that the Person is in danger of dying....
Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
Acts 2:37-38
: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned " (Mark 16:16).
: "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Cor. 13:14).
"For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one" (1 John 5:7).
''He which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath annointed us, is God ;who hath sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts''(11Cor . 1 ,21 -22 )
Quote///
babloyi
See, now I am confused. Is Baptism necessary, or not?
Yes it is necessary.

Quote///
he Sacrament of Holy Baptism was instituted by Our Lord after His resurrection, when He appeared to His disciples and said. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age (Matt. 28:18-20).
The necessity of this baptism was further stressed by the Savior when He said to them. He who believes and is baptised will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16).
AND ....And Peter said to [the people], \'Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit\'. So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls (Acts 2:38,41).
As Scripture says, as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Gal. 3:27)
The Savior commanded His disciples to teach the Faith and to baptize all nations (Matt. 28:19)
In the Old Testament, circumcision was the prototype of the Sacrament of Baptism in the New Testament, by which the believer enters into a new covenant with God (Col. 2:11-12).
If circumcision was performed in the Old Testament on all males, adult and infant (being prescribed for infants on the 8th Day after birth), so much the more, according to the grace of the new covenant, the Sacrament of Baptism should be administered to infants.
Holy Scripture itself speaks of the baptism of whole families by the Apostles (Acts 16:14-15; 30-39;

Sorry if all this seems confusing......
IX
helen

helen670

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
Babtism is part of being 'born again' which means you are born again in the cleansing process of being accepted by Christ.
Born again meaning that you are immersed into the water......three times and babtised in thename of the Father,Son and Holy spirit.This signifies that you are BORN for a second time ......the original SIN was SPIRITUAL DEATH that came through Adam and Eve(everyone grows old and dies)the BABTISM is the second re-birth where the Original Spiritual Death (fallen away from God,and not being ALLOWED to get close to God)get's WASHED away allowing one to be born in Christ(He was babtised and Cruccified ,taking the Original Sin of Adam and Eve (Spiritual death)into Himself for us to be born again.....Babtism is what makes you a Christian(It's a Sacrement...which means that this needs to be done)
Jesus Christ told His Disciples to go out and Babtise all in the name of the Father Son and Holy spirit.
The Sacrement of Babtism is God-instituted.Jesus Christ established it.The Apostles enforced and transmitted it to the Church.
During Babtism a death and resurrectiontake place, a birth,or rather a re-birth.
First a death takes place,that's why he who is babtised must totally be immersed in the water font, because this immersion symbolizes death.
What death?
The death of the ''Old ,sinful man'' .
St Paul describes the spiritual death....''so many of us as were babtised into Jesus Christ were babtised into his death:that like Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father,even so we also should walk in the newness of life. For if we have planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also of his resurrection :knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,that the body of sin might be destroyed,that henceforth we should not serve sin'' (Rom .6,3-6)

Personally I think all christians should learn how to give emergancy babtism.

Yes, this is allowed ONLY when there is an emergency that the Person is in danger of dying....
Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
Acts 2:37-38
: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned " (Mark 16:16).
: "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Cor. 13:14).
"For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one" (1 John 5:7).
''He which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath annointed us, is God ;who hath sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts''(11Cor . 1 ,21 -22 )
Quote///
babloyi
See, now I am confused. Is Baptism necessary, or not?
Yes it is necessary.

Quote///
he Sacrament of Holy Baptism was instituted by Our Lord after His resurrection, when He appeared to His disciples and said. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age (Matt. 28:18-20).
The necessity of this baptism was further stressed by the Savior when He said to them. He who believes and is baptised will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16).
AND ....And Peter said to [the people], \'Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit\'. So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls (Acts 2:38,41).
As Scripture says, as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ (Gal. 3:27)
The Savior commanded His disciples to teach the Faith and to baptize all nations (Matt. 28:19)
In the Old Testament, circumcision was the prototype of the Sacrament of Baptism in the New Testament, by which the believer enters into a new covenant with God (Col. 2:11-12).
If circumcision was performed in the Old Testament on all males, adult and infant (being prescribed for infants on the 8th Day after birth), so much the more, according to the grace of the new covenant, the Sacrament of Baptism should be administered to infants.
Holy Scripture itself speaks of the baptism of whole families by the Apostles (Acts 16:14-15; 30-39;

Sorry if all this seems confusing......
IX
helen
forgot source..
www.orthodoxy.org.au...

helen670

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 11:25 PM
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hmmm
sorry new ATS .....double posted...
sorry again.
helen

sinta_ilfirin

posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi
See, now I am confused. Is Baptism necessary, or not?

Look at it kinda like a wedding ring: with or without it you're still married; but when you wear it you are showing the world you are married. Same way with baptism, you are saved with or without being baptised. It's just a way that we can show our faith.

Baptism isn't required to be saved, but we are asked to do it as a public display of our faith.

Chasrac64

posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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But I always thought we have a spirit already, was we not born with a spirit? like when we die the spirit goes back to the one who gave it????

Chasrac64

posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 12:21 AM
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I suppose what I am trying to find out is what this Ritual was used for in Egypt Like everything has roots. The Mandaean still follow John and still do this practice today. and they Dont do it the way the christians do it ( like father son holy spirit) They have another way and they are suppose to be the only ones left that follow John aka Baptist.

Jehosephat

posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 04:13 PM
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Most muslim religions today use it as a physical "washing away of sin" that is why so many decided to bath themsleves in the flithy jordan river to clean thier spirit.

To shorten Helens rather verbose response. There are two types of sin that CHristians have. Original Sin, and regular sin. Orignal sin is the sin of Adam and eve dis-obeying God in the garden of Eden, everyone is born with it, and cannot avoid it. Every Jedeo-christian religion has thier own way of dealing iwth original sin, including Muslims. Catholics deal with it with Babtizum, Most reformation chruches say only faith can do it. While jews and muslims belive they have spiritual power to remove sin

sinta_ilfirin

posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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I must confess that I do not know it's ancient origins, and to me it's not that important. I did it becuase what it means today, and what it meant to me. I will start looking into it though for you, and maybe I'll have something to post in a couple of days.

Chasrac64

posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by sinta_ilfirin
I must confess that I do not know it's ancient origins, and to me it's not that important. I did it becuase what it means today, and what it meant to me. I will start looking into it though for you, and maybe I'll have something to post in a couple of days.
Thanks,
I have before, did a search, but could not really find its origin. so if you do come across something send me way please.