PLAYING INTO BIN LADEN'S HANDS

Originally posted by dragonrider
bin laden=boogie man. i'm awake

Give that man a cigar!!!!!!!

OBL and Saddam are just boogey men, created by the CIA, to be trotted out when one needs a suitable international crisis to divert attention.

Saddam was hardly CIA creation.. Saddam created Saddam by himself.. CIA just spreads wild lies about him.. and OBL.. well project OBL certainly was started by CIA, but it seems that OBL went out of control long time ago..

US is getting some kick azz from its own mistreaded "homies" .. such is live!!!

Uninen,

You dont quite get it. The CIA created Saddam and OBL for a purpose... they need someone to rattle a saber at times to create an international diversion.

Doesnt it make sense to have a boogey man on call that you have control over.

Believe me, there is no surprise... everything is engineered...

"The economy is on its way back up... international investment at an all time high (11 bil i believe), gdp growth of 2.5% last Q, euro to the dollar DOWN 1.2 to 1.1 in the past 6 months"
This would be the America between Canada and Mexico? - a 20-year high in unused manufacturing capacity! Is foreign investment necessarily good: it means they own you and you owe them and they'll run if the dollar gets weaker. At present the decline of the dollar leads foreigners to spot good bargains; but the uS is selling cheap and foreign investors can hardly be expected to show loyalty to anything other than their own, foreign, shareholders.
Such good news as there is does not include unemployment: people care a lot more about that than shadowy performance indicators.
The Bank for International Settlements has expresed its great concern over the dollar.
A weakening dollar helps little because many competitors (China is the obvious one) link their currencies to the dollar so if the dollar gets cheaper -Chinese goods get cheaper: mor eimports and even less attractive exports.
On Monday the dollar was at a four-year low against the Euro and only 3 cents off the all-time low of 1.18 which was when the Euro was first launched back in 1999.
This is what the Fed itself says in the Beige Book:www.federalreserve.gov...
"Reports...signs...economic activity increased a notch during June and the first half of July. Chicago, St. Louis, and San Francisco..economic activity..sluggish...Atlanta.... the remaining districts suggested somewhat stronger growth....generally more positive assessments of current economic activity, several districts....increased optimism...prospects in coming months."

If's, maybe's:"sluggish", "somewhat", "suggests", "prospects": there's no very great economic miracle here.

Originally posted by dragonrider
Uninen,

You dont quite get it. The CIA created Saddam and OBL for a purpose... they need someone to rattle a saber at times to create an international diversion.

Doesnt it make sense to have a boogey man on call that you have control over.

Believe me, there is no surprise... everything is engineered...

And they say that I read too much into conspiracies. Dragonrider, you need to back up your outrageous claims. There is something called libel you know.


Madman---I think what you are doing is great. Keep preaching my friend. You are a true patriot.

And there is the debt:the deficit:a month ago, only, it was revealed that it had shot up 50 per cent since February to $455 billion or 4.2 per cent of US GDP, getting close to Reagan's record 6 per cent in 1983.
Greenspan and Snow are merely backing up Bush -even the WSJ had to goggle at Greenspan's recent 4% growth forecast.

Originally posted by Fester

Originally posted by dragonrider
Uninen,

You dont quite get it. The CIA created Saddam and OBL for a purpose... they need someone to rattle a saber at times to create an international diversion.

Doesnt it make sense to have a boogey man on call that you have control over.

Believe me, there is no surprise... everything is engineered...

And they say that I read too much into conspiracies. Dragonrider, you need to back up your outrageous claims. There is something called libel you know.


Madman---I think what you are doing is great. Keep preaching my friend. You are a true patriot.

outrageous claims?? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
there is something called "truth" you know.
why don't you do some searching on the web. mainstream, even. the dots are all out there to connect.
a true "patriot" should be more concerned about the rights of the press to find and tell the truth than about, "if you're not with us, you're against us" john wayne politics.
dragonrider knows.
it's all a puppet show, and you are the fascinated, enthralled, scared, excited little audience member.
ATS is giving away back stage passes. enjoy.

The press took this Iraq thing hook and sinker.

They were thrilled that there correspondents could actually travel with our troops into battle. Of course, this is what the administration wanted.

The press then became just another advertisement for the administration and its terrible policy. Instead of questioning we were sent images of our boys in action. We were sent interviews from the front line.

What happens? The gullible in the American public are enthralled that our boys with all our modern technology were doing great. They quit questioning what was going on.

George Bush reminds me of someone I've read a lot about. He goes around wearing flight suits, military jackets while he gives speeches. The flags wave. Anyone seen these pics before?

Point of order here....telling a bunch of people on a CONSPIRACY site, to wake up, is kind of preachin' to the Quior isn't it? Personally, I always do research before voting... I didn't vote for Shrub. Then again, neither did most of America....*sigh*... Is this idiot's term up yet? What do you mean he'll be re-elected??? If there is a God, he's laughing so hard right now, he just crapped his pants!

Originally posted by goregrinder
This is off subject, but DR, have you seen Bowling for Columbine yet?>

i saw that, i felt very strange when that guy who supposidly had a part in that bombing was talking about the powers that be.. something deffinately twigged inside me, sort of the same twigg when i played the game deus-ex....

Originally posted by dragonrider
Uninen,

You dont quite get it. The CIA created Saddam and OBL for a purpose... they need someone to rattle a saber at times to create an international diversion.

Doesnt it make sense to have a boogey man on call that you have control over.

Believe me, there is no surprise... everything is engineered...

i am starting to think this more everyday... its really freaking me out thinking about it, how long could this kind of thing have been going on?

As long as the American people continue to worry about who is thrown out of "Survivor" than what is really going on in their country.

W. and his buddies continue to urge people to wave that flag. I just want everyone to know what it is they are waving and what it really stands for.

Support the troops-Protest the policies, and be damn loud about it.

......about how long these events,distractions,fake media,lies,corrupt policy makers,nullification of the constitution.......Al-q,OBL (fabricated enemies).
Pretty much since the constitution was written,it has been a long ,slow,meticulous process.
And it is nearly completed.
The united states has been in a state of national emergency for some time.
I pray that I am wrong,but I think it is almost over.

Originally posted by Fester

Originally posted by dragonrider
Uninen,

You dont quite get it. The CIA created Saddam and OBL for a purpose... they need someone to rattle a saber at times to create an international diversion.

Doesnt it make sense to have a boogey man on call that you have control over.

Believe me, there is no surprise... everything is engineered...

And they say that I read too much into conspiracies. Dragonrider, you need to back up your outrageous claims. There is something called libel you know.


Madman---I think what you are doing is great. Keep preaching my friend. You are a true patriot.

Yes there is something called libel... and to win a libel case in court, the complaintant must prove that the allegations are false...

If that is the case, I would be VERY interested to see someone appear in court to prove me wrong...

The day a Bush sycophant becomes the biggest and best poster of all time instead of a conspiracy buster is my last day posting on ATS.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but Dragonrider knows no more than the average person. Just because he has posted in great numbers on certain topics doesn't make him qualified to know any more then the other person. I fail to see where your logic and praise behind his ordained knowledge is based on.

If you doubt my partriotism or my ability to think and or perceieve certain things about Bin Laden then maybe you should think twice and ask me again what I believe. For all you know about me and what I know is what I have told you so far. What did I tell you so far?

Well not much. Not anything at all. Just that Dragonrider needs to back up his claims. So instead of trying to make me look stupid and praising him, why don't you do yourself some good and debate me on what you think I may or may not know or think?


Thanks.

Well if you think that going to court with some of the most powerful people in the world is wise and that you would actually have a fair trial then why not do it?

Seriously sir, you would only end up dead trying something so dense. Get real. Libel is not something that you are worth dying for is it? You may be think that the truth is worth dying for. I doubt that it isn't. Yet will the truth be revealed before one was killed. Or better yet, would anyone even believe you?

Yeah maybe a few of us and the few others in America and around the world. But will the media advertize you the support you get? Will the common proud American support your beliefs?

That is the question you must ask.

So Dragonrider, what makes you think that Usama Bin Laden is in bed with our administrative or military elites?

Originally posted by Fester
Well if you think that going to court with some of the most powerful people in the world is wise and that you would actually have a fair trial then why not do it?

Seriously sir, you would only end up dead trying something so dense. Get real. Libel is not something that you are worth dying for is it? You may be think that the truth is worth dying for. I doubt that it isn't. Yet will the truth be revealed before one was killed. Or better yet, would anyone even believe you?

Yeah maybe a few of us and the few others in America and around the world. But will the media advertize you the support you get? Will the common proud American support your beliefs?

That is the question you must ask.

So Dragonrider, what makes you think that Usama Bin Laden is in bed with our administrative or military elites?

There is something SOOOOOO familiar about this....

*cough* FM *cough*

OK, I'll play along...

First of all, you have to define exactly who is accusing me of libel. The US government? Did I specify the US government in total? OK, maybe the CIA, as they are the ones I tend to suspect in such matters.

When was the last time the CIA showed up in court? On a libel case?

Are they likely to make me disappear because I level such charges at them? Well now, wouldnt that be a virtual admission of guilt to make a loud public voice disappear after making such allegations? (Please be real, doing so would only make more questions be asked...)

So assume that we do end up in court (even if the CIA lead attourney were reading this thread, he/she would likely be shaking his head...) As I said, the burden of proof lies with the accuser... and to prove me (or anyone else) wrong, that would mean dragging information that they would prefer to leave hidden out into the public light. Would they even show up in court? That would bring far too much public attention on the situation.

But, to your point about proving my point:

Network dates back to Afghan war
Bin Laden began forming his network in 1979, when he went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets alongside Afghan resistance fighters known as the mujahedeen.

He used his family's connections and wealth to raise money for the Afghan resistance and provide the mujahedeen with logistical and humanitarian aid, and participated in several battles in the Afghan war.

As the war with the Soviets drew to a close, bin Laden formed al Qaeda, an organization of ex-mujahedeen and other supporters channeling fighters and funds to the Afghan resistance.

Once the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan, bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia to work for the family construction firm, the bin Laden Group. He became involved in Saudi groups opposed to the reigning Saudi monarchy, the Fahd family.

www.cnn.com...

(Now, what they are not mentioning is the deep ties between the Mujahedeen and the CIA, but that is never going to be released on CNN!)

And as Afghan rebels fought Soviet invaders in the During the 1980s, the United States gave aid from afar while Saudi exile Osama bin Laden provided support from within Afghanistan. In 1988, with U.S. knowledge, bin Laden created Al-Qaeda (The Base); a conglomerate of quasi-independent Islamic terrorist cells spread across 26 or so countries.

healthandenergy.com...

The Soviets invaded the nation and installed a puppet regime in the capitol of Kabul after anti-Communist forces took control in 1979. A long, weary guerilla war between various Afghan resistance groups and Soviet forces ensued. In 1984, the United States and other nations began supporting the Mujahedeen, and in 1992 the resistance group successfully took over Kabul and declared Afghanistan liberated.

edition.cnn.com...

Oh yes, and this one too...

OSAMA BIN LADEN - A CIA CREATION AND ITS "BLOWBACK"

"TERRORIST" IS CONNECTED TO CIA, DRUGS AND WE MAY HAVE DELIBERATELY PROVOKED HIM TO ATTACK

WE MAY NOT WANT TO CATCH HIM EITHER

[Reprinted from the September, 1998 issue of From The Wilderness]

[� 1998, 2001 - From The Wilderness Publications. All Rights Reserved. May Be Reprinted for Non-Profit Purposes Only]

by

Michael C. Ruppert



On August 20 [1998] the United States launched a series of cruise missile attacks against alleged terrorist camps in Afghanistan and a pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan, both of which were said to be under the control of a rabid Islamic fundamentalist leader and arch terrorist named Osama bin-Laden. I did some checking on bin-Laden and what I found out leads me to suspect that the CIA and the U.S. government would rather have this evil terrorist hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan than answering questions which might embarrass them.

Shortly after the Russians invaded Afghanistan, the young and wealthy Saudi Arabian named bin-Laden rushed to Afghani mountains to fight a Muslim holy war against Godless Communism. Having inherited more than thirty million dollars from his father's construction business he was in a position to lend immediate help to the struggling Afghani freedom fighters. He formed quick alliances among the half dozen or so major factions of the Mujahedeen led by Afghani Sheik Hekmatyar.

US records indicate that we spent nearly $3 billion dollars over the next eight years to train and equip the Afghan rebels. We even supplied them with Stinger missiles, which caused great concern in later years as we began to fear they would be turned against us. The U.S. Congress appropriated ransom money to buy them back in the early 90s. Few were recovered. In addition the CIA, under Bill Casey, sponsored an explosion in the heroin trade to finance the war. This was nothing new.

In 1979, when the Soviet invasion occurred, virtually none of the heroin entering the US came from the so-called Golden Crescent in Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. At the time it was coming from Mexico and Southeast Asia. By 1982 the region was producing exportable opium base equivalent to 20-30 tons of heroin a year. Of that, at least 4.5 tons reached the U.S. By 1988 those numbers had increased to 70 to 80 tons of heroin of which 15 to 20 tons reached the US.

64.239.13.64...


*ahem*

You were saying?

Originally posted by Fester
Sorry to bust your bubble, but Dragonrider knows no more than the average person. Just because he has posted in great numbers on certain topics doesn't make him qualified to know any more then the other person. I fail to see where your logic and praise behind his ordained knowledge is based on.

If you doubt my partriotism or my ability to think and or perceieve certain things about Bin Laden then maybe you should think twice and ask me again what I believe. For all you know about me and what I know is what I have told you so far. What did I tell you so far?

Well not much. Not anything at all. Just that Dragonrider needs to back up his claims. So instead of trying to make me look stupid and praising him, why don't you do yourself some good and debate me on what you think I may or may not know or think?


Thanks.

i'm not debating "you".
just the facts.
i don't have a bubble. it makes me squishy, which is good.
patriotism is a disease. think for yourself. research. cross reference. be a babe in the woods. percepts not precepts.
do you know bin laden? have you ever met him? or is it that you have been bombarded by big money media to beLIEve certain things.
p.s. they aren't really dragonrider's claims. there is no "average person" in my world. he is merely a spokesman for(a layer of) the truth(in this case).

Before some loopy individual calls me unAmerican or whatever I am a proud veteran of the 101st Airborne Division, and the 1st Infantry division

I would not even consider you loopy. Im a vet of the 5/7 ADA, B Battery. Youre saying exactly what Im saying: stop feeding our guys as cannon fodder for Bush and his friggin oil. You know what Im saying, youve been there. People dont realize if they want to support the troops, they can do so by protesting them being there and getting them home. (minus of course, greeting them with abuse and spitting in the face like they did after nam). Give them a warm welcome home. But get them the hell out. This whole mess was never inteneded to rebuild Iraq, just plunder it, and in the end, the troops will suffer. Not the public, not the prez.