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7/7 Exercise - why would they have pretend bombers?

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posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 09:31 AM
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I've seen quite a lot of people and sites on the internet talk about this exercise that was happening on the day of the attacks, but everyone seems to assume that they would have pretend bombers on the trains.
This idea appears to be a popular basis for ideas that revlove around the hypothosis that the terrorists were set up.

But why would they have pretend bombers? It was not a government excercise and a private company (which it was) would not be able to do this without authoristaion I'm sure.
I also see no need for it as from what I can make out (and maybe I'm wrong), it was an excercise dealing with the effects on part of the private sector and not anything to do with security, prevention or emergency response.
I don't recall them saying anything that actually implies there were pretend bombers and I can't see a need for any in that particular type of excercise.

As this is being used as the basis for theories such as 'the bombers were set up by the government', I think it is very important we establish for certain if there were any.

Here's that transcript again:


POWER: Today we were running an exercise for a company - bear in mind now that I'm in the private sector - and we sat everybody down in the city - 1000 people involved in the whole organization - with the crisis team. And the most peculiar thing was it was we based on a scenario of simultaneous attacks on a underground and mainline station. So we had to suddenly switch an exercise from fictional to real. And one of the first things is, get that bureau number, when you have a list of people missing, tell them. And it took a long time -

INTERVIEWER: Just to get this right, you were actually working today on an exercise that envisioned virtually this scenario?

POWER: Almost precisely. I was up to 2 oclock this morning, because it's our job, my own company. Visor Consultants, we specialize in helping people to get their crisis management response, how you jump from slow time thinking to quick time doing. And we chose a scenario with no assistance, which is based on a terrorist attack because they've been close to a property occupied by Jewish businessmen there in the city, and there are more American banks in this city than there are in the whole of New York - a logical thing to do.

INTERVIEWER: How extraordinary today must feel for you as it unfolds. You mentioned a few moments ago there our experience with Irish Republican terrorism. And of course it was very different wasn't it because however perverted their behavior, the IRA believed itself to have some sort of code of honour, and tended to issue some kind of warnings, of course they often came too late to do any good.


I would also advise reading their website, here:

www.visorconsultants.com...




[edit on 17-7-2005 by AgentSmith]




posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 09:42 AM
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What puzzles me is what type of company would have to go from a fictional crisis management excersise to a real-time excersise. Surely if it was a company not associated with the underground system they would have abandoned the meeting.

And even so, why would such a company need an outside consultant if all they needed to do is get a list of people who hadn't shown for work. Surely their human resources department could have done that easily enough?



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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It obviously does affect them because it was the scenario that they chose for the excerise.
All the outcomes and problems they were intending to simulate now had to be done for real.
You could hardly expect them to go 'oh it's happening for real - well good luck' could you? The whole point was for the company they were working for to be able to cope in an emergency, if they hadn't had the course yet then they obviously needed the help?



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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I apologize if I'm missing something but why wouldn't they have pretend bombers? Four people to deliver the packages to their respective targets. Unbeknownst to these four people (and everyone else involved with the exercise), their 'pretend' bombs were real.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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How did all this '''cover up'' Hysteria get started in the first place? These terrorists are Martyrs for their faith and are will willing to kill for their belief.. This has been going on since Biblical times and will continue throughout the course of history,, how dare you (people spreading mass hysteria) even begin to accuse our leaders of killing our own citizens?? you should be banned imo....



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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Chaps - the exercise was a seminar among managers only not an actual on the ground exercise . No need to close stations / have dummy bombers. The risks / economic cost of closing 4 Tube stations would be great just for an exercise. On the ground drills inc NBC etc have been carried out - on Sunday Mornings!

Coincidence not conspiracy



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by wAtCh27LeO
How did all this '''cover up'' Hysteria get started in the first place? These terrorists are Martyrs for their faith and are will willing to kill for their belief.. This has been going on since Biblical times and will continue throughout the course of history,, how dare you (people spreading mass hysteria) even begin to accuse our leaders of killing our own citizens?? you should be banned imo....


If you haven't realized where you are yet, this is a conspiracy site. Feel free to find the exit if you have problems discussing theories that aren't discussed exclusively on FOX and BBC. It is a citizen's right to question authority and question things that are told to us by the Government, and it's only through denial like yours that, say it's true if the Government were pulling these things off (I believe it's more likely on 9/11 than on 7/7) you're only censoring the truth. No one should be banned for using our brains and having discussions outside the norm on a conspiracy site.


[edit on 17-7-2005 by NoJustice]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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i know exactly where i am at , ?Denial? I am standing up for the leaders of our great nation (including Europe) Dont you see how these terrorist play with your mind .. Support your country



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by wAtCh27LeO
i know exactly where i am at , ?Denial? I am standing up for the leaders of our great nation (including Europe) Dont you see how these terrorist play with your mind .. Support your country


You're being really confusing. You're talking about the leaders and the terrorists as if they're completely seperate, the leaders ARE the terrorists.

Stop confusing Government loyalty for Patriotism. Do you even know what America was originally intended to be? Very limited Government power, keeping an eye on our Government and making sure everything they do was for our best intentions. At the same time, freedom for the citizens. You seem to be ignoring the fact that America now has BIG Government, and many of our freedoms are lost. So you're actually doing a disservice to your country by defending the tyrants in office. Patriotism is being loyal to the people of the country, not the Political leaders that have no idea what's it like to work a day in their lives, yet they make unjust laws for us. If you'd actually pay attention, we just lost our property rights in America. Blair sure has motive to carry out the London bombings as well, due to lost interest in the War on Terrorism and low support for the British National ID cards, which the Governments wants to take away MORE freedom. National ID cards don't stop terrorism, they stop freedom.

THINK, it's not illegal yet.



[edit on 17-7-2005 by NoJustice]


dh

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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[ The risks / economic cost of closing 4 Tube stations would be great just for an exercise.

Nevertheless, underground stations on the Northern Line were closed, thus forcing people, including allegedly, the bus bomber on to buses



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by dh

[ The risks / economic cost of closing 4 Tube stations would be great just for an exercise.

Nevertheless, underground stations on the Northern Line were closed, thus forcing people, including allegedly, the bus bomber on to buses


That was because the bombs had just gone off, do you suggest they should have kept them open? For god's sake read the damn facts - there all there if you open your eyes! The bus bomb went off nearly an hour after!

As a previous poster has stated

Chaps - the exercise was a seminar among managers only not an actual on the ground exercise .


This was NOT an emergency services exercise, it did NOT involve the simulation of bomb delivery or physical aftermath. It was PURELY a pen and paper exercise, get this into your heads! This is clear from the transcript alone, which you are basing your assumptions on.

As someone else pointed out to me, whenver ANY exercise involving actualy ground level simulations takes place the public are informed in advance and it is usually on the news, remember the one not too far back on a bio/chemical attack?

I'm sorry to have dashed you ridiculous theory into smithereens, but that is the fact, now go and find some other 'revelation' to inform us all about.

While people are entertaining stupid ideas based on highly flawed theories, we are wasting time we should be spending on investigating real discrepencies.


dh

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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No, if you look there was chaos and shutdowns occurring on Northern Line stations before any bombs went off

Also as I stated on another thread,there is a zillion to one chance that three bombs should go off at the exact same location at the same time as were predicated in a paper simulation exercise, as I said on another thread, before this unnecessary thread appeared.

This suggests a third party detailed both the actions of the bombers and the contents of the exercise assuming the company didn't employ the bombers

Also if the exercise was so very theoretical, how were Power and his colleagues able to swing into action as the real thing

Why are you posting extra and totally redundant threads anyway?
Part of your tactics? - I think your name tells us something about you

[edit on 17-7-2005 by dh]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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note to all arabs and muslims do not help in these drills
no matter what they say dont help you will be set up like the 911 hijacking drill and the london bombing drill



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by dh
No, if you look there was chaos and shutdowns occurring on Northern Line stations before any bombs went off

Also as I stated on another thread,there is a zillion to one chance that three bombs should go off at the exact same location at the same time as were predicated in a paper simulation exercise, as I said on another thread, before this unnecessary thread appeared.

This suggests a third party detailed both the actions of the bombers and the contents of the exercise assuming the company didn't employ the bombers

Also if the exercise was so very theoretical, how were Power and his colleagues able to swing into action as the real thing

Why are you posting extra and totally redundant threads anyway?
Part of your tactics? - I think your name tells us something about you

[edit on 17-7-2005 by dh]


I think your being a bit a fool, take that hat off a minute and read:

Without seeing the actual paperwork, all we know is what the over excited chairman was saying and, knowing human nature and how people exaggerate, 'exact times' could more accuratley be defined as 'around the same time' Now don't forget that since then it has been discovered that the bombs actually went off at the same time, not at different times as the belief was when Power made that statement.
The 'window' in which maximum effect could be achieved both in number of people killed/injured and causing the most amount of economic disruption would obviously be during the morning rush hour, which is a pretty narrow window. By doing it then they can injure maximum people while completely disrupting the days work, causing maximum economic losses to companies and the country on the whole as possible.

When you bear this in mind (as it's not exactly rocket science - if you can't understand these simple facts then you shouldn't even be trying to come up with anything complicated like a conspiracy theory) along with the ideal terrorist targets being underground trains (as the confines of the tunnel help to concentrate the blast into a smaller area, thus causing maximum casualties and a high chance of causing damage to the structure of the tunnel and the building above it), as well as the added costs of the complications of examining and clearing the scene - a scenario involving bombs on underground trains is not an unlikely one, and is in fact probably one of the more popular ones.
It's not like a bus bomb was in the exercise too is it?

Why would a 'third party' detail the actions of the actual attack and the simulated one? The simulated one was dealing with the paperwork/administrative aspect on the effects on a single company? It didn't involve a simulation with pretend bombers, incident teams, emergency services or anything like!
There would be nothing to gain from it and no cover of any kind could be achieved.

And what sort of remark is this?


Also if the exercise was so very theoretical, how were Power and his colleagues able to swing into action as the real thing


Well if they didn't know what to do then they shouldn't be in the business of crisis management should they! Ludicrous, it would be like saying (during an emergancy service exercise) 'how were the paramedics able to cope with the injured people!'.
Don't forget they only had involvement with the company that they were working with and how it directly affected them. not the public in general.


Why are you posting extra and totally redundant threads anyway?
Part of your tactics? - I think your name tells us something about you


Really? you think that a homeland security operative would actually use a name like that do you? If it was true you can rest assured you would no longer be posting.

You may put your tin-foil hat back on now.

/program end



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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This thread was actually started to find out about Muslim community awareness of possible Blair government involvement.

Get some London Muslims on the forum, that is the idea.

They deserve to know what is going on.

[edit on 17-7-2005 by Roy Robinson Stewart]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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AgentSmith, we're on a CONSPIRACY site, there is no reason to insult open mindedness and say stupid things like "put on your tin foil hat". That's childish, and doesn't belong here.


This was NOT an emergency services exercise, it did NOT involve the simulation of bomb delivery or physical aftermath. It was PURELY a pen and paper exercise, get this into your heads! This is clear from the transcript alone, which you are basing your assumptions on.


Now, I want you to prove to me that these were just written exercises. That isn't what I get from this, but if you have some other proof then I'd be happy to see it. (See? it's not that hard to be civilized and discuss things without pointless ranting.)

POWER: At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now.*

HOST: To get this quite straight, you were running an exercise to see how you would cope with this and it happened while you were running the exercise?

POWER: Precisely, and it was about half past nine this morning, we planned this for a company and for obvious reasons I don't want to reveal their name but they're listening and they'll know it. And we had a room full of crisis managers for the first time they'd met and so within five minutes we made a pretty rapid decision that this is the real one and so we went through the correct drills of activating crisis management procedures to jump from slow time to quick time thinking and so on.

According to Power the drill focused around 'simultaneous bombings'. At first the bombings were thought to have been spread over an hour, but that was later confirmed by police as being wrong and that in fact the bombings were only seconds apart, therefore simultaneous.


BTW the link at the end of your post that started this topic doesn't work.


*- if the guy running the drills had hair standing on his neck it obviously was a huge coincidence. So to say we need to put on our "tin foil hats" for being interested is rediculous.



[edit on 17-7-2005 by NoJustice]


dh

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
This thread was actually started to find out about Muslim community awareness of possible Blair government involvement.



[edit on 17-7-2005 by Roy Robinson Stewart]

With all due respect Roy - no it wasn't - Your thread was meaningful
This one is a blinder
It's even got you confused
That's precisely why I questioned Agent Smith's motivation in starting redundant threads
It gets everyone confused
I'd vote for you If I had a vote left, Roy
No criticism intended

[edit on 17-7-2005 by dh]

[edit on 17-7-2005 by dh]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:58 PM
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www.visorconsultants.com...

But the proof is in what the company does and in what he says in the transcript, he never says they ran a physical exercise and they don't have the authority to do that anyhow.

If you trawl through all the literature available you'll see clear as day that it's not what they do.
There is a clear difference between open-mindedness and plain ignorance, you cannot deny facts.

And if you decide you cannot trust anything the media tells you, then that has to include the information all these theories are based on, not just what you want and don't want. You can't have it both ways you know, picking and choosing what you want to believe to reinforce your ideas.

I challenge you this:

PROVE that they were running an illegal excerise involving unnecessary street level personnel, or at least show evidence of them implying it, which they havn't.
Why would you need pretend bombers to simulate an exercise involving the effects on a specific company? Why? there is no reason.

The stations are at good strategic points to cause maximum disruption, these terrorist's may be a lot of things but they are not idiots.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by dh

Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart
This thread was actually started to find out about Muslim community awareness of possible Blair government involvement.



[edit on 17-7-2005 by Roy Robinson Stewart]

With all due respect Roy - no it wasn't - Your thread was meaningful
This one is a blinder
It's even got you confused
That's precisely why I questioned Agent Smith's motivation in starting redundant threads
It gets everyone confused
I'd vote for you If I had a vote left, Roy
No criticism intended

[edit on 17-7-2005 by dh]

[edit on 17-7-2005 by dh]


I started this thread because the topic deserves discussion in it's own right and I was trying to not to hijack Roy's thread.

It might get people that can't read thread titles confused, but if that's the case how will they cope with the countless threads spanning all the ATS/BTS/PTS/ID boards?

[edit on 17-7-2005 by AgentSmith]


dh

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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Really? you think that a homeland security operative would actually use a name like that do you? If it was true you can rest assured you would no longer be posting.

You may put your tin-foil hat back on now.

/program end

Actually, I really believe you are a disinfo agent, and a rather poor one at that
You've exposed your colours
I hope I'm wrong but I don't make such accusations lightly

[edit on 17-7-2005 by dh]



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