Muslim community awareness of 7/7 bombing as possible Blair setup?

You're right, there isn't. The bomb factory they found, the fact that at least three of them went to Pakistan and two are known to have met with terrorists, the changes in them recently....NONE of that would point to them being deliberate bombers.

It's a big created lie
They were most likely set up by MI5

Sorry, but if you are examining the 'Inside job' theory, then you can't logically include as evidence anything which could have been planted, nor can you include anything which cannot be independently verified.

To do so is to presuppose that the theory you are examining is false. . . . this is a logical error which is continuously being made by you government apologists and it just doesn't work.

And if you are going to start talking waffle about 'the changes in them (the suspects) recently (which isn't evidence) then you also have to report that some of the family members are adamant that their relative could not have done it. Reporting the first as 'evidence' but not the second is again, a presupposition of guilt.

Any stage one student of logic could tell you this.

Actually what the families said is that someone had to have brainwashed them into doing it, because they can't believe that they would come up with the idea of doing it on their own.
"They described him as "a kind and caring member of our family" and suggested he had been "brainwashed"."
Not such a nice guy with this one.
"Newspapers reported how he would start fights with fellow pupils at the Matthew Murray Secondary school in Leeds.

He left school in July 2003 without attaining a single GCSE"
""We as a family had no idea of his plans and are as horrified as the rest of the world.""

Travel to Pakistan -verified. Pictures of them entering and exit records for two of them, making several trips to the country. Still trying to track down where they went while in country. They're still tracking down exit records for the third. They're tracking their phone number usage while there as well.

It appears that while in Pakistan they attended at least one "school" there. There are several cases of Muslim extremists using schools to indoctrinate students into hating Westerners. This could be the case here as well. It's too early to know for sure but as more facts come out about them, so will the truth about whether they could have done it or not.

None of what you say is evidence that the 4 accused are guilty of intentionally bombing London.

When are you going to wake up to this?

By parading this stuff as evidence you are supporting fascism and the fascist habit of conviction without trial by mass hysteria.



And BTW you are off the thread topic.



[edit on 18-7-2005 by Roy Robinson Stewart]

Conspiracy is one thing but denial is something else. I should also state that I believe there are any number of conspiracies. That said....

If you took some of the comment within this thread as absolute truth you could form the opinion that some believe that no one ever perpetrates evil deeds. Yet history is full of ‘evil’ deeds against humanity, that have been carried out by supposedly ‘normal’ people. There again there are thosewho seek to promote the view that some of these deeds never took place despite the evidence.

It is also a proven fact that some people can be manipulated and brainwashed into carrying out atrocities in the name of a cause (just look at the IRA activity over many, many years and how many people died and were injured during that period of activity?). This is even more likely when the people in question feel disenfranchised from the community in which they live and therefore seek solace elsewhere. It is at the time of the lowest ebb that people are at their most vulnerable.

Sometimes I feel that there are those who see conspiracy in EVERYTHING. Perhaps we would be better served picking our targets and letting the rest pass by. Acceptance springs to mind..

Hmm Let's deal with Facts. No conspiracies for the moment.

FACT #1. We Can Only speculate.. at this time and we will continue to Speculate.. for a long time to come at what occured on July 7th.

Fact#2. The Isreali Financce Minister had prior Knowledge of some kind of attack to strike in London.

Fact# 3. Blair doesn't want any probe into the London Bombings, just yet.........
(It may uncover some of the govt agencies shortcomings)

Fact #4. Identification Papers and other documents don't stay intact, of a bomb's implosion and explosion..... no matter what. It could be a crude homemade device to sophisticated military explosives.

Fact# 5. CCTV Tapes can be doctored to suit one's purposes.

Fact#6. This was a message to blair; Keep your Focus on Terrorism

Fact# 7. 3 Groups claim responsibility. None of them are capable of carrying out such an attack, of that magnitude

FACT#1 - This is true, undeniably.

FACT#2 - The source of this information is the same 'reliable' media that 'cannot be trusted'. All information we receive basically comes through the Media. No one can just pick and chose what you want to hear and use as 'evidence' at will. This isn't necessarily a fact, I found it odd that the media would know what was happening so early on before the authorities did. And who would inform the media of something like this at such a time?
Maybe it was 'planted' information designed to help throw doubt on any offical inquiry.

FACT#3 - I didn't realise this was the case, have you got a link to the official source that states this as it would be interesting to see what they say.

FACT#4 - Well actually they can do, everything is not vapourised and things get carried in the explosion. Jeez, there was even that women who was practically stood next to it on the bus that was practically unscathed.

FACT#5 - Well yes they can, we just have to have faith in the police to not do this, but if there is a conspiracy obviously they would. I have no way of saying they arn't for sure - so fair enough.

FACT#6 - Undoubtedly, not just to blair but to us all.

FACT#7 - I knew of the three groups but I have no knowledge of them, have you got any links to official sources that provide evidence of why this would be the case?

Originally posted by crusader
Hmm Let's deal with Facts. No conspiracies for the moment.

FACT #1. We Can Only speculate.. at this time and we will continue to Speculate.. for a long time to come at what occured on July 7th.

Fact#2. The Isreali Financce Minister had prior Knowledge of some kind of attack to strike in London.

Fact# 3. Blair doesn't want any probe into the London Bombings, just yet.........
(It may uncover some of the govt agencies shortcomings)

Fact #4. Identification Papers and other documents don't stay intact, of a bomb's implosion and explosion..... no matter what. It could be a crude homemade device to sophisticated military explosives.

Fact# 5. CCTV Tapes can be doctored to suit one's purposes.

Fact#6. This was a message to blair; Keep your Focus on Terrorism

Fact# 7. 3 Groups claim responsibility. None of them are capable of carrying out such an attack, of that magnitude

Personally as i stated earlier i still firmly believe that the 4 were simply unwitting "PATSYS" in a much bigger game.

Why put yourself on the back seat of a double decker with no roof if you want to kill people ???

Why not below where the blast would be contained and far more devastaional?

Why buy RETURN TICKETS ??

Why did the right hand man of NETHENYAHU change his story so rapidly and why did the Isreali government warn its cabinet to stay tight lipped.?

Why no enquirey?

Dont you find it strange that the director of public transport in London is and ex operative of the CIA.

Isnt it a bit worring that the camera on the bus mysteriouly didnt work that day and so theres no photos of him getting on or off the bus, just a head they HAPPEN to find ??

The oddity of an bomb threat exercise taking place at exactly the same place and same times as the REAL bombings??

Maybe the four were part of the exercise..or so THEY thought !!

At the moment for me anyway, theres just too many questions, discrepencies and oddities in the case!!

Any thoughts anyone ??

Denial, paranoia, ignorance...

Thats what this site is about.

wouldnt suprise me if this site was made by the secret government, just to make sure people are scared.

In the end if you can find proof, then well done, but I aint seen any. Mr mister obviously thought he gave me proof, but he was mistaken. I would like that dvd in widescreen please...

Originally posted by AgentSmith
All the interviews with family and friends in which it is revealed that they went to Pakistan and came back 'changed' and some had been going through depression are all lies then? And the sudden interest in religon that one of them started to show was also too a strange co-incidence?

OK what about the report that the head of them was in Israel i while ago....

www.guardian.co.uk...

It's very easy and common in the shady world of sppoks to set up people for this kind of thing. Set people up thinking ther working for one side.. have them do your work and the eliminate them.

Notice how the story changed from bom to electrical fault to bomb again... from there the bomber walked away untill finally were told they blew themselves up.

Waay tooo much disinfo flying around.. also blair is not going to have a public enquirey just an internal MI5 investigation.

That just says to me: whtever REALLY happened were never going to find out the truth.

Why is it so hard to understand that first reports are INCREDIBLY unreliable? You've got a lot of information coming in from a lot of sources. It's NOT disinformation, it's confusion. It's like the game Telephone that kids used to play. This person is told this, but by the time it gets back to the news it's changed. Not only that, but you've got so much information coming in from so many places it's hard to keep track of it all.

You want proof woodsyboy then ask the wife of the British scientist (part of the original investigation tea in Iraq) who mysteriously commited suicide while walking his dog in the woods with tablets after telling the BBC that the WMD in iraq was all a lie manipulated by the goverment to give reason to the invasion of Iraq.

Maybe you could ask the FBI agents with years of experience why they said the evidence they found was in their words "LEFT TO BE FOUND" in relation to the 9/11 investigation.

Or maybe the agents of the FBI who were told what they COULD and COULDNT investgate when they found evidence that contradicted the official versions.

The truthtellers are always silenced.

andy1972 wrote:

Isnt it a bit worring that the camera on the bus mysteriouly didnt work that day and so theres no photos of him getting on or off the bus, just a head they HAPPEN to find ??

oh yeah, forgot about that one. That was very conincidental too i think.

The one point that is sticking in my mind right now, is this:
"they went to pakistan" thing
let me tell you something. IN the past year, my ex husband and his friend have been to pakistan twice. Now IF they, GOd forbid, had been caught up in something like these attacks.....what would have been said about them?
THat they went to pakistan twice in the past year!!...oh God, that definitely means something!!

Except they went the first time with my children, to visit family, where the most interesting thing they got up to was visit the zoo.
And the second time, to visit a relative of the friend who was having an operation.
This argument means nothing. The fact that people seem to think Pakistan is one big terrorist school, is, quite frankly, laughable. People DO go to pakistan (yes, even twice, three times a year) for other things.

the idea that this is some government conspiricy is frankly ridiculous. They have absolutely nothing to gain from it. The bombers are simply criminals who murdered innocent men and women.

The bombs have turned people away from supporting the war on terror and just today the 'think tank' Chatham House said in a report that the so called 'war on terror' in Iraq made the UK more likely to be attacked. Also a report by saudi arabia and israel has stated that the vast majority of suicide bombers in iraq were radicalised by the war in Iraq. Now why do you all think there has to be a conspiricy despite the complete lack of any evidence whatsoever to support this.

news.bbc.co.uk...
www.chron.com...

Please by all means provide this evidence, I have an open mind but the only evidence all points to fundamentalists not to the government. I can't wait to see all your 'evidence'.

Despite this thread being nothing to do with providing evidence, most of the main pointers have been replayed in the last page or two
Perhaps you should read the posts
But then like all self-policing types you like to shout 'Give me proof' while accepting the say-so of the government and the Media

Originally posted by geek101
andy1972 wrote:

Isnt it a bit worring that the camera on the bus mysteriouly didnt work that day and so theres no photos of him getting on or off the bus, just a head they HAPPEN to find ??

oh yeah, forgot about that one. That was very conincidental too i think.

The one point that is sticking in my mind right now, is this:
"they went to pakistan" thing
let me tell you something. IN the past year, my ex husband and his friend have been to pakistan twice. Now IF they, GOd forbid, had been caught up in something like these attacks.....what would have been said about them?
THat they went to pakistan twice in the past year!!...oh God, that definitely means something!!

Except they went the first time with my children, to visit family, where the most interesting thing they got up to was visit the zoo.
And the second time, to visit a relative of the friend who was having an operation.
This argument means nothing. The fact that people seem to think Pakistan is one big terrorist school, is, quite frankly, laughable. People DO go to pakistan (yes, even twice, three times a year) for other things.

What do you think about the rash of arrests in Pakistan taking place at present? People are being picked up in a 'Nation wide sweep' for allegedly having links with banned groups. What happens to them now?

If they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to worry about.
Damn good job actually seeing them doing something to tackle the problem for once instead of sitting around writing reports.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that innocence is protection from being murdered, accidentally killed, tortured unjustly convicted or detained indefinitely without trial by the global police.

www.antiwar.com...

That's precisely what these people live in - fantasy world- they believe what they're told and will try their utmost to try to keep others of the herd from escaping the fold
They're worse than animals