It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

another line of reasoning...

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:42 AM
link   
i am NOT claiming it amounts to ANYTHING atall! However, i AM looking forward to people's views on the following line of reasoning...

Suppose God exists.
Suppose God created us.
Suppose God is just.
Suppose God is going to punish or reward us depending on our beliefs.
(the tenents of 3 major world religions)

Now, I do not know whether to believe in God or not, or believe which religion. So, if we assume that God IS just, AND that he will hold us accountable for our beliefs, then it holds that He MUST have either given us some independent means to reason about him and come to an ultimate conclusion OR He will NOT hold us accountable.

IF he has given us means to reason about him, and i have not been able to come to any conclusion, and He is just, then i will NOT be held accountable atall.

Seems to me like any way i look at it, God will not be able to hold me accountable.

A lot of religions claim and actually islam states it clearly, that God sent messengers to all his people to tell/show them the truth. If we believe that, then again we come to the problem of where is a messenger for me or my generation? if the last prophet came 1400 years ago, how am i to believe?




posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:55 AM
link   
Well......... you say u will not be held accountable, but I beieve what they are sayin is that he is just but just could mean that he holds strongly to Justice, if u kill someone then you are held accountable thus paying a price, if u save someone's life, u are held accountable thus given some reward.

Now I am one that has simply taken the most basic principals of all religions, My own beliefs, laws, and codes so to speak and rolled put it into my own love and belief of Nature, and pretty much I have formed my own belief and faith. No direction of mass religion what so ever of who to belief or what to believe. As long as u believe in urself then life's answers will come


So either way, sorry man but you WILL have to be held accountable for ur actions. Nice thought though


And about a messenger, dont think that there will be another massiah or maryter going around. They say messenger cus they MEAN messenger, not a messenger to the public but a messenger to the indivual YOU. May it be in shape of an animal, a human, or simply inspiration itself. but the messenger will come to aid you in your life when you need it, not when u want it or hope for it. MAN some people get their messenger when they are 60 lol some get it when they are 5, It only matters if you choose to listen to that messenge or not. and if not, then that messenger may never bother you again thus loosing a perfect oppertunity to get some really good insight.

But then again, that is just me and how I enterpret life and all. Find your own interpretation and you will be alot less confused.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 07:35 AM
link   
On the 'does God exist' part... He gave you prophecy in the bible so that you will know that He is the Lord.

KJV bible search on phrase "know that i am the lord" returns 77 hits.

God made Israel a country again after its people were scattered for 2000 years.
That has not happened with another nation.
That has happened within the last 60 years whether you believe it or not.

THere is a war coming in the mideast. Many muslim nations are going to pounce on Israel...it appears they will have russias help. God is going to defend Israel. At the end of that short nuclear mideast war...

read Ezekiel 39:6


Now...you are reasoning whether you will be held accountable for your beliefs.
The bible says you will be held accountable for who you follow. Him, or satan.
Jesus showed us how, He showed us how to love and how to refuse evil.
You know what God says is moral and what is not.
Using the gay issue as an example... people today like to think that morallity is relative to the society. God says its not.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God says you know the real deal inside regardless of the front that is put up.
Every man will be judged accordingly



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 11:11 AM
link   
i like the thought that maybe messenger IS on a very personal basis and perhaps the 'messenger' could be anything.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:50 PM
link   
WOW Jake1997, Wasnt expectin someone to come out with the verses. But you have to remember, Hashbaby is the only one that can choose if he wants to believe in such, or not, regardless how many biblical verses you put in, it is still his mind scape. As Many christians say, "God gives us free will, it is us that governs that will, but it is God that justifies that will".

And yeah Hashbaby, I like the thought as well because I have understood it to be quite true. I have had many messengers about different things in my life. As i choose to call them Signs. but alas, make your own interpretation, truely it will be a enlightening experience.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 04:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hashbaby
Seems to me like any way i look at it, God will not be able to hold me accountable.

that God sent messengers to all his people to tell/show them the truth. If we believe that, then again we come to the problem of where is a messenger for me or my generation?



Seems to me that your mind is pondering the question of, "Is there a God".

So you are now without an excuse before God, because you are wondering if He is real and will I be held accountable for my actions.

So the thought of God has entered your mind and you cannot go back and play dumb before Him.

So you are now given the choice of searching to know Him or not.

You say, "Where are the messengers for my generation?" Well alot of them are in the Bible. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Noah, Moses, Paul, Peter, Luke etc. The Bible is still around so that we can read it's message. Now as far as messengers who are in a physical body for this generation, try Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah, Adrian Rogers, Ed Hindson, Ray Comfort and even Kirk Cameron. The last is a name that most know and most can identify with.

[edit on 17-7-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 12:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by Hashbaby
...Suppose God is going to punish or reward us depending on our beliefs.
(the tenents of 3 major world religions)


Which 3 religions would that be? Christianity is the only major religion that holds that beliefs are what matters, and only a subset of Christianity at that. Islam is a works based religion. Hindu and Buddhism are also works based (in a sense). Judaism (which I suspect was you're implied #3) is not a major religion in any sense, and is ethnic/works based anyway.


Originally posted by Hashbaby
A lot of religions claim and actually islam states it clearly, that God sent messengers to all his people to tell/show them the truth. If we believe that, then again we come to the problem of where is a messenger for me or my generation? if the last prophet came 1400 years ago, how am i to believe?


Doesn't it seem rather silly that the infinite creator of the universe, who created a rational and comprehensible universe, and who created you as a rational being, has as his greatest desire that you throw away those critical thinking skills he endowed you with and just believe what you wish to be true about what someone else told you about him?

Why would an infinite being care at all about what you believe, or even about what you do? If he is totally self sufficient, then he has no cares. Concern of any form indicates lack of self sufficiency, which negates an infinite nature.



new topics

top topics



 
0

log in

join