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FYI: Banned member today (IlluSionS667)

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posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:42 AM
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To fight people like this you have to be voiceful. Banning then without letting the comunity know will only allow hate to persist.




posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

-Voltaire

Or.....for the pop culture enthusiasts.....

'While I may not agree with what you say sir, I will defend to the death your right to say it.'

-Peter Griffin, Family Guy

But, hey, it is a privately owned and operated board.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:52 AM
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umbrax
I disagree, the cliche "no such thing as bad publicity" has held true in my experience.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
We ought to find ways to cut down on the swearing on ATS and the other forums. Searchbots ban us for that.

The only way I know of that members have of *allowing* them to see the swearing is by accessing the ATS Store & spend points to shut off the "cussing filter". I've turned off my own filter because sometimes a carefully chosen cuss-word in just the right location can actually say more than a full page of text.

BTW, Nazi is a "four-letter word", ya' know.


[edit on 17-7-2005 by MidnightDStroyer]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

-Voltaire

Or.....for the pop culture enthusiasts.....

'While I may not agree with what you say sir, I will defend to the death your right to say it.'

-Peter Griffin, Family Guy

But, hey, it is a privately owned and operated board.


I couldn't agree more. As much as I detest the views of those who choose to spout forth this Nazi drivel, they have every right to spout it. I'm not one to persecute words, but rather persecute actions. The freedom of speech is a very important right to me, and I have spent my life defending it for all, regardless of views. There's a big difference between saying "I hate all (insert racist slang here)" and actually going and killing someone of the group targeted by one's racist beliefs.

However, I can understand that this is a private board, and that Simon and SO want to put forth a certain image. I respect their rights to do that as well. So, while I've voiced my opinions here, it's not in an attempt to change, but just to be heard.

[edit on 17-7-2005 by obsidian468]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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When new members come here, or guests, and read threads like that, some will automatically assume that ATS is filled with nonsense like that. Everyone represents the membership & quality of ATS, and I think we should try to make as good of an impression as we can..having Nazi garbage won't help at all.

[edit on 17-7-2005 by JBurns]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by ThichHeaded
I thought you guys were monitoring new people joining the forum, as in making them wait for acceptance.

If not then I think you guys should do it again. If so, I think you should be more diligant on you efforts there.


The new membership process can filter out some members.
But, people can "slip through the cracks" as it were and only show their true colors when they begin to post.
Only then does their agenda become obvious.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Odium
Or is it classed as an assumed historic fact?

"Assumed?"

Amazing.

Ignorance creep.

Well... based on my experiences with two neighbors who survived (with the tattoos), I would say there is no questioning.



There is a lot more to the holocaust then just the people who died.

A good example is "How much involvement did Hitler have in the Final Solution"? There are hundreds of questions which do not have to even question the statistics of how many people died.

Nor do I mention questionning if it happened, but you can question the extent. Did more people die? Less? Who were the real people pushing for it?

Plus where did I say I myself don't believe in it happening? I was just wishing to clear something up which I have never seen answered before.

Edit:


Originally posted by BaastetNoir
:shk: question the Holocaust ???? UNREAL ! what is there to question ? Did the Jewsih people trow themsleves in the ovens ? and marked themselves like catle ? UNBELIVEBLE ! Whats there to question about holocaust ?? Arent tapes, videos, photos, newspapers, and even Hitler's own confessions enough ? It IS a FACT.
[edit on 16-7-2005 by BaastetNoir]


Actually, if anything I wish to learn more about what happened to the Russian people during this time, the amount that died, how they were killed (from what I've found so far, starvation), etc, not just Jewish people did in the Holocaust and there are still many questions unanswered about it.

Why did/do we let it happen again?
The Hitler Confessions? The Russian Book Stalin's men got?
There is also more to look at such as the use of Concentration Camps and Extermination Camps after and before WW2.

(I don't ever think I said I doubt millions of people died, I know from my Grandparents told me (the Russian one had seen the camps first hand) and I know a fair bit that went on in there. But there are still questions which can be asked.)

WyrdeOne, yes they are serial numbers designed using the punch card system which was invented by IBM. They also invented a process of working out the weight, height, hours per-day they could work, etc, all on those cards.
www.pcworld.com...

[edit on 17/7/2005 by Odium]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 09:13 AM
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Odium,

As someone else who has spent a substantial amount of time researching the more esoteric and not widelly known aspects of world war 2 I can understand your curiousity. Especially considering how many unanswered questions still linger from that singularly dark decade in history. However due to the fact that 6 million people were killed while the whole world chose to put off the stories coming out of germany leaves consciencous individuals in a difficult place. At the time the world at large was in shock, and most self respecting people were deeply ashamed, that we didn't put this to an end sooner. Because of this and the cowardly suicide of hitler the nuremburg trials were conducted too swiftly to close the book on one of the darker moments in history. This combined with lingering legacies like paper clip and the SS escapes to south america and to this day unrecovered property make the whole thing a very sensitive subjective.

Honestly I am glad to see that the staff has once again moved to keep the site free of hateful people who can't let go of one of the single most despiccable ideologies in history.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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@ staff of moderators

Thank you.

Rebekka



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

But, hey, it is a privately owned and operated board.


That's fine and well, but you have to draw the line somewhere. What if someone were posting around the board stating that it's perfectly natural and okay to have sex with children? Should we defend such a person's right to free speech? Not in my books we shouldn't.

You have to draw a line somewhere in the sand, and the website owner/administrators have decided that holocaust denial and anti-semetism are over that line. I see no problem with that, no problem at all.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Well... based on my experiences with two neighbors who survived (with the tattoos), I would say there is no questioning.


Exactly the words that came to my mind as I read the questioning of the holocaust. The two people I knew (I no longer live in that town) were phenomenal human beings. They not only survived, they built lives that were full of richness and giving, volunteering in the community and coming forward (at their own risk) when their neighborhood began to become over run with drug dealers. The compassion and bravery of these two old women will never leave me.

You cannot possibly know the Jewish people and hate them. You can only know some bad people who happen to be Jewish, as is the case with anyone. Freedom of speech or not, it is never excusable to condemn an entire people. That is the epitomy of ignorance.

Good call Mods!



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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IlluSion667, neighbor of the beast.

i would like to see equal vigor in banning people who issue vitriolic hate speech against muslims. there is a bit of a mental disconnect going on here, i think. i don't know if the mods are warning people who are promoting; 'turning the middle east into a sheet of glass', or say things like, 'toerag muslim lunatics'. this is clearly also hate speech, and is not helping cool the irrationality of misplaced anger. did you know moderate muslims(ie. 90plus% of muslims) don't like to explode as much as you an i don't like to explode? it's true! did you know that muslims are peaceloving? it's true! did you know that calling yourself, 'christian, jew, muslim, buddhist' doesn't mean you act like one. fear leads to anger, anger leads to the dark side. it's true.
the 'terrorists' are an EXTREMELY small group of people. all muslims are not terrorists. GET IT OUT OF YOUR HEADS! most are regular joes like you and me(i okay, i'm not that regular, but you get the pic). they just want to wake up and enjoy life.
religions have NEVER been the actual problem. it is the hegellian practice of building hate against religions that is the fuel of war. the true terrorists are sitting on massive properties, and being served on hand and foot by armies of servants. they live beyond the law. that is the power of having ALL the money. one cannot fight an enemy without knowing who it really is.
i know, but i won't fight. i'll lie down and say, 'do as thou wilt, dickhead'.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 11:33 AM
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Hey Relentless.
Check this out.
It´s not faked.






posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by billybob
i would like to see equal vigor in banning people who issue vitriolic hate speech against muslims. ... warning people who are promoting; 'turning the middle east into a sheet of glass', or say things like, 'toerag muslim lunatics'. this is clearly also hate speech...


It's not often that I only feel compelled to state, "I completely agree" without waffling on for another few paragraphs, but all I can say here is:

I completely agree.



PS: The first line was just filler.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Hellmutt
Hey Relentless.
Check this out.
It´s not faked.


LOLOLOL - Too funny. Now that is something I would have expected CPR to notice.

At least this time I had no coffee in my mouth, so my keyboard was spared the daily ATS *spits drink on keyboard* it usually gets at some point .

Edit: Wait a minute, CPR did find one of those once before - how often does that happen next to my name anyway?


[edit on 7/17/2005 by Relentless]



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Relentless
...how often does that happen next to my name anyway?

There is a way to find out, but I'm too lazy to do it myself:
Access your ATS account & Search for All Posts by This User...Check out all of the threads in which you've posted & do some math.


Still, I feel that ATS did themselves & the "normal" members a favor by getting rid of the guy...This whole site is dedicated to research & intellectual discussion on the subject of conspiracies. There's no room for hate-mongering & "revision" of documented historical fact here. Since this is a privately-owned board, they had every right to do what they did.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Well... based on my experiences with two neighbors who survived (with the tattoos), I would say there is no questioning.


What is so amazing is the little punks try to change history while those that lived it are still alive.

My Grandmother was a German/Jew who escaped early to the UK but her family that stayed and lived through it (not many) still have the tattoos and eyewitness accounts of the horrible things that happened there.

What worries me is after these people are gone no one will be left to bring a human side to this. It will just be one set of history versus another.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
What if someone were posting around the board stating that it's perfectly natural and okay to have sex with children? Should we defend such a person's right to free speech? Not in my books we shouldn't.


As much as I hate to say it, in the REAL world, yes, we should, but it doesn't mean we have to be friends with the person.


You have to draw a line somewhere in the sand, and the website owner/administrators have decided that holocaust denial and anti-semetism are over that line. I see no problem with that, no problem at all.


I don't know the exact nature of Illusion's posts since they have been taken down. If this person was truly advocating harm against groups of people, then the only wrong thing with this person's posts was that it violated the board's TOC.

But as far as "posting knowingly false information," I don't buy that. This guy probably believed that there was a conspiracy in the holocaust. And, since you gave your opinions about it, I'll give mine, I do find a problem with that.

ATS seems to care more about it's image in this case to dispose of ALTERNATIVE theories that the ATS administration didn't agree with. I have read many theories on ATS that are against academically accepted history, heck, I've even posted some myself, but apparently not all ALTERNATIVE theories are welcome.

Members had probably already argued against this guy's theories and essentially censored him themselves. But as I said before, I can understand banning him for the hateful language that was against ATS' TOC.



posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

-Voltaire

Or.....for the pop culture enthusiasts.....

'While I may not agree with what you say sir, I will defend to the death your right to say it.'

-Peter Griffin, Family Guy
But, hey, it is a privately owned and operated board.



would you be a Jew marked like catle and whose family had been burned in a oven, you would think differently... Nazism IS HATE SPEECH and IGNORANCE... and hey ... this board claims to DENY IGNORACNE and that what it was donne.!

If you allow Nazis, why not allow Child molesters?? let them in a post stories about all the pervertions and murderes they have commicted... if there is "freedom of speech " fo one there must be for others??

Why not allow Black Mulsims to post their hatred agains white people ?? Why not allow Hatred against homosexuals ??

Is it only Open Game if it is against the jews ??/

Freedom of speech come at a very high cost ... you better watch what you wish for, eventually your "social group" may be the next victim, and im sure than you wont think its "freedom of speech" anymore.

Nazis and such of the kind, have their own boards, let them spew their hatred there.

The only thing the World needs to know about the Holocaust is that IT HAPPENED, IT WAS EVIL, There is NOTHING to question, and by the turn things are turning, it may happen again..in a global scale ....

[edit on 17-7-2005 by BaastetNoir]



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