I Must Bash Catholics Because?

Here ya go, I am tired of having to get it all in bits and pieces whenever the word comes up.

Why don't all of you who feel the need to tell us what's wrong with us, just knock yourselves out here. Then maybe the word could actually appear in a thread and instead of the whole Catholic bashing thing derailing the thread you can just give a quick link to this thread and get back on topic.

Just a thought......:shk:

Oh, do have fun!

When I talk of what is wrong with the catholic denomination I do not mean it personally. I fully understand that it probably comes across as such and I apologize.

I am not mad at catholic people, I am mad at the institution because it doesn't tell the truth concerning salvation, and I do not want anyone to go to hell for eternity.

Dbrandt, I actually haven't noticed you throwing posts off track with your point of view, and that is really what I am referring to. No apologies needed for having a point of view. I am referring to those who go out of their way to drag up dogma, whether it is relevant to the thread or not at any opportunity the minute they see the word Catholic (and I notice that none of these people are responding here, where the invitation is actually put forth). Very interesting.

I do see that your perspective is one of the things that suppossedly cause these people to act the way they do. So I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what causes some people at ATS make it their mission in life to set us striaght. I question it because I really don't see anyone converting anyone on a board like ATS, so I find it curious that it becomes such a heated debate every time I see it.

There are so many denominations at this point saying what your saying regarding the truth about salvation and the Catholic Church (but I don't think they all are quite saying the same thing either). Would you mind clarifying for me exactly what you perceive to be the truth concerning salvation, what you perceive the Catholic teaching to err on regarding this matter and what denomination teaches this? I am asking this honestly without an intent to bash your beliefs, but more to understand where this comes from.

I invite anyone else to jump in here too, without the need for long disertations on bibical quotes, as I think that is subject to interpretation and no one is ever going to win that one (plus we've seen it a thousand times).

Originally posted by Relentless
I question it because I really don't see anyone converting anyone on a board like ATS, so I find it curious that it becomes such a heated debate every time I see it.

There are so many denominations at this point saying what your saying regarding the truth about salvation and the Catholic Church (but I don't think they all are quite saying the same thing either). Would you mind clarifying for me exactly what you perceive to be the truth concerning salvation, what you perceive the Catholic teaching to err on regarding this matter and what denomination teaches this?

As far as someone being converted on ATS, I agree that we may not see it, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. This is an excellant way to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Some missionaries travel halfway around the world to reach others, I think it's simply amazing that having a computer and the internet can be used to speak to people all over the world.

To begin with God alone knows the heart and knows those who are saved. So I am not saying that every person who attends catholic is not saved. Also there are some other denominations that don't truly tell of salvation either. So I am not only upset at the catholic view but any view that adds to Christ alone and/or sends you to someone other than or in addition to christ for salvation. The church I attend tells of salvation in truth, but yet I could not say that everyone who attends it is saved.

God tells us a person is saved by grace through faith in the completed work of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. Christ cried on the cross it is finished, meaning that the payment for each individual sin is complete in Him. A person cannot add anything to it. No works or acts bring us anymore salvation than we already have in Christ. A decision to place a person's faith in Jesus Christ alone brings salvation. It's a mental decision concerning a spiritual matter.

I have problems with the eucharist that happens at a catholic mass, it's simply not Biblical. That's not how you receive Christ. The elements are not changed into the actual body and blood of Christ. The office of Pope is not Biblical nor was Peter the first Pope. God tells us not to pray to anyone other than Himself, no one. No one else is a mediator between a person and God. Christ alone is our mediator. Purgatory does not exist. Christ's work was complete to bring us into eternity with God, a person does not go to a place to purge themself of what Christ couldn't. That's blasphemy, Jesus paid it ALL. When you leave this life as a believer you are with God immediately. There is no purgatory.

There are other things but but I am upset because there are people who believe they are going to heaven because they are following some specific guidelines when they are actually headed for eternal seperation from God.

Faith alone in Christ makes us accepted by God, we become justified and then the Holy Spirit comes to indwell that person and as we surrender to His guidance we are sanctified.

I have heard enough and watched enough and studied enough of the catholic dogma to know what I'm talking about. I also have and am studying the Bible and know what it says.

Originally posted by dbrandt
As far as someone being converted on ATS, I agree that we may not see it, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. This is an excellant way to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Some missionaries travel halfway around the world to reach others, I think it's simply amazing that having a computer and the internet can be used to speak to people all over the world.

I do agree that it is amazing that the Gospel can be spread instananeously around the world if one chooses to participate in that, but I honestly don't think ATS is the place for that, and certainly not in posts that aren't posted for that reason

Thank you for explaining your point of reference so plainly. I get it. To tell you the truth, your belief system sounds so much easier than being a Catholic, but in all honesty, I don't think I could embrace the easy way out for me personally (meaning it would be the easy way out for me - as oppossed to saying that those who follow your beliefs are taking the easy way out). There are many aspects of the Catholic faith that I just don't think people understand in the proper context, but I don't think there is anything I could say to make them understand what I see there.

For the record I am considered a reversion. Meaning, I rejected the church for 20 years, agreeing with a great deal of the criticisms launched against us, and in fact embracing other spiritual concepts and beliefs. So I'm rather tolerant of some of the oppossing views, since I've been there, but I still don't see ATS as the place for trying to correct people on the faith they embrace (and I am not referring to you, as I said earlier).

Thanks for actually having a rational discussion on this.

Originally posted by Relentless

Thank you for explaining your point of reference so plainly. I get it. To tell you the truth, your belief system sounds so much easier than being a Catholic,

You have no idea how many times I have thought that to myself, but never said it to anyone. I kinda feel free to say it now that I have had someone confirm it. The catholic way adds works to what a person must do for and complicates salvation. In truth, salvation is so plain and simple that a 5 year old can understand it. That's what God desires, for it to be free for us to get back to Him.

Relentless,

Firstly I want to say that it is my belief that bashing people from a different religion or faith will lead to nothing except more bashing. Not improvment. I think people will always look to the past for something to bash in order to fulfill they're ilusions of what could have been a perfect world "If only". Or because they want to draw peoples' attention towards what they are doing, in what me seems to be not a very biblical manner.

Sadly the RCC hasn't had a very bright past and thus is the perfect candidate for these kind of things. However if we are looking for improvement the only thing that matters is the present. And here my vote will go to those who call for some sort of reformation in the RCC. Bashing the past and wanting some sort of change in the present are two different things. That is my opinion on the matter.

I like your nick by the way. Did you come up with that yourself or did you get it from somewhere? A book perhaps?

Originally posted by joyouslyhumored
Bashing the past and wanting some sort of change in the present are two different things. That is my opinion on the matter.

The constant reminders of the past mistakes of the RCC is one thing, and I actually don't repsond to that most of the time. This thread was prompted by the threads where the mere mention of the word Catholic results in a barage of disertations (lengthy and bibical quotes included) as to where the RCC errs in matters of doctrine and faith. There's a small but very mouthy bunch out there who just continue to do this to threads and it's annoying. They also turn vicious very fast when a Catholic responds with any explanation of the faith to correct their misinterpretation their disertations are based on. Personally I thing they are trolls with an agenda who go unnoticed since their agenda is just Catholic bashing. The fact that none of these people have accepted the invitation here to let it all out reinforces my take on that actually, since none of them have reared their ugly tongues when it's flat out asked for.

I like your nick by the way. Did you come up with that yourself or did you get it from somewhere? A book perhaps?

Do you mean Relentless or Goddess Regardless? Relentless comes from a past life (in this lifetime - lol) as a play on my last name and my actions at the time. Goddess Regardless actually popped out in chat here at one point when some of my friends were calling me "goddess" as a show of support against someone else who seemed to have a problem with the fact that I even breathed. (That person is no longer here). The term popped out and I decided to adopt it for the sound of it and the play on words. That one would probably make an interesting character in a story when you really think about it.

Off topic from the subject of tenderizing Catholic meat for my favorite dish... Jesuit Stew, I wanted to pull this out.

Originally posted by dbrandt
As far as someone being converted on ATS, I agree that we may not see it, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. This is an excellant way to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Some missionaries travel halfway around the world to reach others, I think it's simply amazing that having a computer and the internet can be used to speak to people all over the world.

Thank you for acknowledging this place is literally crawling with proselytizing evangelicals, no matter how much they complain this site is supposedly anti-Christian.

Everyone is just immune to their own brand of stink.

RANT

Thank you for acknowledging this place is literally crawling with proselytizing evangelicals, no matter how much they complain this site is supposedly anti-Christian.
Everyone is just immune to their own brand of stink.

And that is not an example of bashing which the author is alledging?

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
RANT

Thank you for acknowledging this place is literally crawling with proselytizing evangelicals, no matter how much they complain this site is supposedly anti-Christian.
Everyone is just immune to their own brand of stink.

And that is not an example of bashing which the author is alledging?

I agree. It is not an example of bashing to which the author is alledging.

I actually believe the Fox Show Relentless is watching is When Protestants Attack!

But thank you for both agreeing and adding some additional weight to the witness of my actual point on this brim filled pool of hyper sensitive, paranoid religious types, all swearing everyone is on ATS is out to get them.

What I say, as with everyone else, is my opinion. Just because someone does not believe what you believe or simply sees no value in it doesn't mean that they are bashing you. It is no secret that I am less then a fan of organized religion. However, the idea of me pointing out problems with religion as an attack on the spiritually minded is equivalent to one believing that I am personally attacking a fan of rap music if I mention that I do not care for rap.

With that said, I do understand that there are some people that are so threatened by something that they lash out in a blind rage, but (in the same respect) there are also those that are so threatened by having their beliefs questioned that every miniscule difference of opinion becomes an excuse to scream persecution. If one's beliefs are solid, then why should one become so emotional about a difference of opinion?

If you don't like what is on television then change the channel, but to spit at the set for what is displayed on the screen is a waste of time if you stop to think about it. After all, you are the one whom is going to have to clean up the emotional spittle.





WTF!?! If I didn't use analogies like that of a mental patient then I might actually sound intelligent.

Rant,
Thank you for proving my point

I agree. It is not an example of bashing to which the author is alledging.

I actually believe the Fox Show Relentless is watching is When Protestants Attack!

But thank you for both agreeing and adding some additional weight to the witness of my actual point on this brim filled pool of hyper sensitive, paranoid religious types, all swearing everyone is on ATS is out to get them.

:bnghd::bnghd::bnghd::bnghd::bnghd::bnghd:

Originally posted by Jonna
With that said, I do understand that there are some people that are so threatened by something that they lash out in a blind rage, but (in the same respect) there are also those that are so threatened by having their beliefs questioned that every miniscule difference of opinion becomes an excuse to scream persecution. If one's beliefs are solid, then why should one become so emotional about a difference of opinion?

Lest we confuse what I am talking about between the comments above an Rant's lovely contribution.....by the way I am not watching Fox Rant, but your speculative statement says a lot.

I am ranting about the trolls who bring up their difference of opinions inappropriately (when it is not relevant to the topic) and then take it to extreme limits where it throws off the thread. Differences of dogma and faith do not need to be debated any time someone says a particular word.

Yes, I've heard it before, ignore them, but when one jumps on and a pack shows up, by the time they are done, the thread is derailed.

There are a lot of people who do nothing but. I find it annoying, not because they disagree with my beliefs, but because they seem to think it is their job to prove their own beliefs are "gospel" and it's "my way or the highway". It's normally not done in a thread that this type of behavior is contributing to.

As for this Rant:

But thank you for both agreeing and adding some additional weight to the witness of my actual point on this brim filled pool of hyper sensitive, paranoid religious types, all swearing everyone is on ATS is out to get them.

That's a stretch for what I AM talking about but I expect nothing less from you.

You have voted Relentless for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

For the above posting. I am really getting tired of it all. Maybe (please) it will settle down again after all the kids start going back 2 school

Originally posted by Relentless
The constant reminders of the past mistakes of the RCC is one thing, and I actually don't repsond to that most of the time. This thread was prompted by the threads where the mere mention of the word Catholic results in a barage of disertations (lengthy and bibical quotes included) as to where the RCC errs in matters of doctrine and faith. There's a small but very mouthy bunch out there who just continue to do this to threads and it's annoying. They also turn vicious very fast when a Catholic responds with any explanation of the faith to correct their misinterpretation their disertations are based on. Personally I thing they are trolls with an agenda who go unnoticed since their agenda is just Catholic bashing.

You just said what I said, then called my observation of the same thing "lovely."

Just not sure who's out to get you are you? Everyone is it?

No Rant, I actually thought for a second there we were on the same page, but maybe it's just your delivery that gets confusing.

Seriously, we were saying the same thing but then you make a derogatory comment?

For the reocrd, I do no who who's out to get me and none of you here are on that list, and I'm not afraid of them either.

[edit on 7/19/2005 by Relentless]

It's the whole pope thing. Maybe the way of converting too. And don't forget it's not so pezcefull history.

I've been raised catholic, had 3 sacrements, or 4 (I didn't do the marriage thing). Still I don't consider myself catholic. I have no faith in the god Jahwe/Jezus/Alah/Jehova/whatever, and I especially don't approve of the institution that "The Church" is.

What really makes me angry is other religions not understanding that I don't believe either. According to them I convert or I'm a catholic. I'm not a big fan of religion, to much abuse.

Bashing of religion is not too uncommon on this website. Like seriously, the Creationism and Origins Conspiracies forum, didn't help that much, it seemed to be put there for the reason of bashing the religious indirectly and sometimes directly. The stuff some people said greatly offended me, my Islamic friends didn't take to keen to the fact either so it's not just catholics. If you are going to discuss stuff on a pubic forum please tone it down a bit and don't hijack a thread to propogate your prejudice further.

I come to ATS as a way to escape and learn about whats going on through the eyes of others. I accept how people might fight my views on topics pertaining to science, and I expect that. But when it comes to religion, that's personal.

I keep my thoughts to myself( most the time) but I dont bash anyone for what they believe in. Thats not right, because everyone is different and we should respect this, even if we think its right or wrong.
remember this is why America is America, so we can all believe how we want to without getting killed for it. ( well this is the way its suppose to be)