The War On Terrorism

The topic is The War On Terrorism, and yet much of the time there is nothing discussed about terrorist groups, key figures, and political attachments. The main terror groups currently active throughout Palestine, and Iraq are the following:

Hizballah (Party of God)
HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad
al Jihad (Egyptian)
al-Qaida
Harakat ul-mujahidin
Abu Sayyaf Group

It's been reported that many of the suicide bombers have been young Saudi recruits. Mecca is the center of Islamic belief in Sauid Arabia. Considered holy land and of course the voice to the Islamic world - where Jihad must "be approved".

"Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war ... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the special tax for non-Muslims]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them." (Sahih Muslim 4294)

This verse is generally overlooked by clerics such as Dr. Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari, former dean of the Faculty of Islamic Law at the University of Qatar. When the subject of Jihad is addressed, it's done so based on "A Means of Defending Differences, Pluralism and Diversity".

What we do know is that Bin Laden was very effective in creating underground movements, such as Saudi Hizballlah, in Saudi Arabia, that listened to the "true voice of Jihad," and recruited soldiers rapidly in the strict epicenter of Islam. These groups run global money laundering operations from Africa to Hong Kong, and funded by Prince's, non-profit organizations, and government ministers.

Iqraa TV in Saudi Arabia includes shows with leading Saudi religious figures, professors, members of the royal family, government leaders and intellectuals. Constant themes within Saudi television shows include: calls for the annihilation of Christians and Jews, rampant anti-Americanism and antisemitism, support for Jihad, incitement against U.S. troops in Iraq, and the coming Islamic conquest of the U.S. Segments from these TV shows can be found at www.memriTV.org.

Terror in London (6) - Tehran Sermon: The US and Israel are the Father and Mother of Al-Qaeda; The Preacher Condemns London Attacks and the Crowd Cheers "Death to England"

The following are excerpts from a Friday sermon at Tehran University by Ayatollah Mohammad Amami-Kashani, which aired on Iranian TV Channel 1 on July 8, 2005

Kashani: Regarding the bombing incidents in London, the Islamic Republic and the foreign ministry have expressed their position and condemned them. The entire Iranian people condemns this. Massacring women, children, old and young is entirely inappropriate for a human being, and cannot be accepted by anyone with a conscience. Iran has expressed its people's solidarity with the survivors of these incidents in London.

You speak of terror and Al-Qaeda. Have you forgotten who the mother and father of Al-Qaeda are? America is its father, and Israel its mother. It is the illegitimate child of these powers. You yourselves have brought it about...

Crowd:Allah Akbar. Allah Akbar. Allah Akbar. Khamenei is the leader. Death to those who reject the rule of the jurisprudent. Death to America. Death to England. Death to the hypocrites (Mojahedin-e Khalq) and Saddam. Death to Israel.

Kashani: You yourselves have brought it about, and you have done so in the name of Islam. Thus, the child, whose father is the arrogance of the White House, and whose mother is the executioners of Israel, and who you have named "Islam" – is known to all. The reason he was named this way is clear, as is your true nature. You brought (Al-Qaeda) about in order to bring calamity to our lives, but, thank God, it has brought calamity to yours.

What we have here is, not just organizations promoting extremist Islam, but the very leaders, prince's, and the wealthy of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebannon, Yemen, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Indonesia and a host of other nations intent on establishing the voice coming from the cleric's in Mecca.

If the discussion of these groups took place, here, a better understanding of what we're dealing with as a whole, and who is responsible, can be discussed, rather than the ficticious theories of current.

From the lack of replies, it's pretty clear the interest lies in BS theories and conspiracy, rather than sound reality. No one has anything to offer on any of these groups?

What do you prupose we discuss?

That was a delightfull post and I'm sure it took you a while, but there is no topic here.
Yours is a rare opinion here, and you must not assume ( as you seem to be doing) that the 'offieial version' is 100% true.
I will admit that there are some wacked out thoughts here, but the idea here on ATS is to discuss ALTERNATE Ideas, Not to stagnate on the info currently accepted and replayed over and over in the media.

Originally posted by Halfofone
What do you prupose we discuss?

You see the list. Obviously no one has knowledge on such. The only knowledge I see is dim-witted conspiracies, about Blair covering up the bombing, or Mossad agents...

The real truth, and to hell with offense, is that you would rather discuss things you don't know jack#e about, rather than focus on reality and the real terror groups operating everyday in our cities, including GRU, who enact cells. Does anyone know this? lol.

Originally posted by Halfofone
That was a delightfull post and I'm sure it took you a while, but there is no topic here.

Yeah about ten minutes and the topic is straight forward, dealing with the issues head on, that's why you don't get it.

Originally posted by Halfofone
Yours is a rare opinion here, and you must not assume ( as you seem to be doing) that the 'offieial version' is 100% true.
I will admit that there are some wacked out thoughts here, but the idea here on ATS is to discuss ALTERNATE Ideas, Not to stagnate on the info currently accepted and replayed over and over in the media.

IS there anything in this post about official versions? Nice scapegoat. The only alternate ideas are not delaing with real world, reality, GROUPS INTENT ON KILLING YOU. I don't see the real groups played about in the media. Why? Simple, then you would understand this is a jihad war, not some government conspiracy, or bohemian world bank strategy. Of course the World Bank has agendas, as well as Chirac, Cheney, Putin, and TERRORIST FRIGGIN GROUPS THAT ARE REAL, NOT SOME FICTIONAL HARRY POTTER BOOK!

If laying out on the table real organizations, with real logistical agendas, with real Islamic international financing, and real global networks, makes me a have a "rare opinion," then you truly are among the most ignorant.

If I lay out a plan of how you form a corporation, raise capital, and profit, from experience, will you come back with some silly #ey of how you think it could best be done out of your great wisdom? Dine on your stupidity.

Hmm.

You miss understand my position, it's probably my fault.
I do not defend the notion that terrorist organizations do not exist. Of course they do. Calling me ignorant because I stated that you have a rare opinion HERE (on ATS) shows your ignorance of the community. There is no need for that crap. Yes there are a lot of people here running around screaming “there is no Al-Qaeda”, but that is mostly just mindless repetition of the ideas of others.
You seem to be taking everything at face value, particularly the stance of the terrorists. When I say "the official version" I refer to the idea that these organizations are acting purely upon religious misinterpretation and racial or ideological hatred.
That’s a load of BS. Sure it’s reason enough for the uneducated suicide bomber. You take a disenfranchised youth that has watched his way of life destroyed by war; fill his mind with twisted truth and flat out lies, convince him of the wonderful praise and accolades that await him in the afterlife, and you’ve got yourself a jihad warrior. Same thing here in the west only instead, you take a spoiled westerner, fill his mind with twisted truth and flat out lies and most importantly FEAR. Convince him that it is religious/ideological hate, and not foreign policy that fuels the jihad and you’ve got yourself a citizen willing to back bottomless spending on a war that cannot be won, against an intangible idea that is never going away.
What we must do, is look at the nature of power, and more specifically how to keep it. Manipulation of the masses, Western or Eastern the result is the same, the rich and powerful continue to increase their wealth and power, and the only difference is the method. The real conspiracy is that they are mutually beneficial, western policy fuels attacks, which creates stronger support for such policy (and even the strengthening of it, eg. Patriot act), and the leaders of the Islamic nations have increasing evidence of the need for jihad and the arrogance of the west. As seen in the rhetoric you posted from Kashani. Notice how he is careful to condemn the attacks, but still espouses that the west has brought it upon themselves. The most telling example is the cozy relationship between the Bush family and the Saudi royal family.
I can’t know if there is a conspiracy here, but knowing human nature, and the conniving evil things people will do for money and power (even just on a small business level), I can imagine that the elite are not benign, and certainly not telling the truth all the time.
Peal back the surface layers.
Follow the money.
Who will benefit?

Originally posted by Halfofone
What we must do, is look at the nature of power, and more specifically how to keep it. Manipulation of the masses, Western or Eastern the result is the same, the rich and powerful continue to increase their wealth and power, and the only difference is the method.

You are trying to point to a larger, philosophical theory, where in reality the focus should be on terrorists, and their applications now. It's called "working up the chain," or networking. When you pass names around, those names are viewed by people, researched, and remembered. Word of mouth can be a powerful anesthetic to terrorism. Focusing on active groups who are commiting logistics, bodies, and COMMUNICATING through non-profit organizations, charities and so forth, creates a tighter net within the populace. Focusing on theories provides nothing but release of CO2.

Also your notion of rhetoric about Kashani is not Rhetoric at all. This was his speech delivered to an audience. The crowd chanted death to America, and death to England. Rhetoric no, cultural acceptance, yes.

"The appeal to support the fighting against U.S. forces was signed by 93 Muslim clerics from countries throughout the world, and was published by the London pro-Saddam daily Al-Quds Al-Arabi on August 23, 2004."

"The London Daily Al-Hayat newspaper reported on Speptember 2, 2004 that Sheikh Yousef Al-Qardhawi, head of the newly-established (in July) London-based International Council of Muslim Clerics and head of the European Committee for Religious Law published a new fatwa declaring that "it is an obligation incumbent on the Muslims to kill American citizens in Iraq, since they are in Iraq in order to assist the soldiers and the occupation forces; it is forbidden however to desecrate their corpses."

The Signatories

"The leading figure among the signatories are Sheikh Muhammad Mahdi 'Akef, an Egyptian who is the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood movement; his deputy in Syria, Dr. Hassan Huweidi; his deputy in Egypt, Muhammad Habib; and Isam Al-'Attar, former leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria, who resides in Germany after having fled Syria.

A number of well-known clerics also signed the appeal, such as Sheikh Dr. Yousef Al-Qaradhawi; Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, Secretary-General of the Al-Jama'a Al-Islamiyya in Lebanon and spiritual leader of the Union of Islamic Organizations in France; and Sheikh Muhammad Al-Jouzo, the Mufti of Mount Lebanon.

Among the other signatories are leaders of terrorist organizations, such as Khaled Mash'al, head of the political bureau of Hamas, the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood; Dr. Ramadhan Abdallah Shallah, Secretary-General of Palestinian Islamic Jihad; and well-known Shi'ite figures, such as Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Secretary-General of Hizbullah."

If you wish to find out who's behind bombings, you may want to start with the names provided here, along with their companies, and finances. However, to do so would require labor, and we of course would rather spew out CO2 than actually discover, or understand real networks and groups working for our demise.

Originally posted by Halfofone
I can’t know if there is a conspiracy here, but knowing human nature, and the conniving evil things people will do for money and power (even just on a small business level), I can imagine that the elite are not benign, and certainly not telling the truth all the time.

ELITE? No, just rich, pissed off Muslims.

Originally posted by Halfofone
Peal back the surface layers.
Follow the money.
Who will benefit?

You have this idea that it's all about benefit. That's your non-religious mind thinking. There is a great cultural difference. The war in Iraq has many agenda's for many different people and organizations. However, the Muslim war has to do with over a thousand years of culture deeply imbedded in religion.

Please read the following to gain a better understanding of Islam:

"The Western way is the way of dividing things into subjects and inventing abstract theories in an attempt to understand these subjects. Thus the West has the political theories of Marx and other 'socialists', as it has the sociological theories of Durkheim, Levi-Strauss and others, and the psychological theories of Freud and Jung. These and other Western theories all have their exponents and those who oppose them with different theories. Thus, in 'politics' there are socialists, of various sorts, described as being on the Left, and conservatives and 'nationalists', described as being on the Right.

What this Western way amounts to is a projection of abstract ideas onto Reality itself - that is, interpreting Reality in terms of these human-derived abstract ideas, theories and forms. For the West, human identity itself is explained, and defined, by such abstract, human, notions. There is thus a concealment of Reality - a covering-up - by these human, abstract, constructs.

Properly, Islam regards this concealment as Kufr. What results from such concealment is Ignorance (Jahiliyah) - ignorance of the true nature of Reality. An individual who, for whatever reason, is ignorant of the true nature of Reality is a Kafir - that is, someone who knowingly or unknowingly conceals the nature of Reality, from either themselves, or others, or both.

Islam regards Reality - all being and all beings, including ourselves - as not only created by, but also defined by, Allah. Kufr is thus a tyranny, a loss of that freedom which Truth - the true apprehension of Reality - brings. This tyranny of Kufr is a mental one, or a physical one, for instance when someone, or many, try to make one of those human abstract notions real in the world through the creation of a particular type of political State. Quite often, Kufr is both a mental and a physical tyranny.

The Way of Al-Islam is the way of Unity - of thinking only in terms of what is Islamic, and what is un-Islamic. Thus, in Islam there are only believers, and kuffar, the unbelievers. In Islam, there is only the Truth, revealed to us by the Prophet Muhammad, and Ignorance (Jahiliyah). In Islam, there is only obedience to the Will of Allah or disobedience." Abdul Aziz


Know your enemy.

Well, I understand more than 85% of the original post, being a simple minded individual. I caught facts about terrorist leaders and cells and such, basic principles of the war on terrorism/Iraq/Afghanistan. This I understand well. I am a soldier, and know my enemy well. I know how they operate, where, and why. I have had direct dealing with the Muqtada Militia in the city of Nasiriyah. I can tell you first hand that these cells and leaders DO exist and the threat IS real. There is no theory involved, no higher agenda, just war and terror. Is this sort of the direction you were going with? If not, I can re-think this topic a bit more to something more useful, yes?


Now, on the subject of funding for terrorism. Funding can come from any source, whether direct or indirect. You have your sympathizers who stand in the background and give funds through smaller organizations where the money is barely traceable to the original contributor, but don't admit to knowing the organization they are giving to, you have directly involved parties who let it publicly known who they support and how they support it, and you have indirect parties who line up deals and act as a "middle man" so to speak. They don't mind one way or another what is going on, but they accept it as "OK." Funding can come from anywhere. I don't know why people insist on uncovering where the money comes from because there will always be a place for money to come and go. Let me know what you think!


Now, about those connections...

In terrorism, you have these small cells, cells made up of maybe 20 or more people. These people start to become influential within thier small villages. Small villages have Shieks (village leaders). These folks are very influential in development of the village and community. When they get sold on the idea of terrorism (in its smallest form first) such as looting and stealing from more wealthy Shieks and landowners, the ideas for greater terrorism emerge. The Shieks then want more power and money and a better place in paradise. The Shieks then recruit more people to thier cause of the first cell, and it spider-webs to other local cells in the area. Now you have numerous Shieks working together for one common goal with many terrorist cells winding into one bigger cell. Now that have the capability, intent and means (money, weapons, provisions) to start putting themselves on the map as a terrorist ORGANIZATION, not cell any more. Organizations begin getting involved with higher authorities ie. police, mayors etc... with promises of protection from other cells, which in reality never thought of doing anything harmful to the mayor or police chief and people like this. This is called leverage, and a show of force with the means to use it is enough leverage to actually get somewhere. You can see how this works. Eventually the cells and organizations get so large, they become an integral part of that society and that way of life and more radical ideas can be introduced.

Originally posted by USAFSFSrA
Funding can come from anywhere. I don't know why people insist on uncovering where the money comes from because there will always be a place for money to come and go. Let me know what you think!

Funding, or money laundering organizations in this instance, provide the means of providing a cell with the ability to move from one country to another and the basic necessities of life. Such funding scams used in the past by such cells are emails from Africa or hong Kong asking for individuals to come forward to claim a $20,000,000 inheritance. They then use a person who gets involved financially to wire money to other cell members or steal identity information to move border to border. These are basic techniques which have been SUCCESSFULLY used, especially from Canada. other organizations are setup as businesses, like export / import companies, fully operating and yet funding cell movement and equipment through tanker transport. Civilians should be aware of such.

Originally posted by USAFSFSrA
Now, about those connections...
In terrorism, you have these small cells, cells made up of maybe 20 or more people. These people start to become influential within thier small villages. Small villages have Shieks (village leaders). .

That's your understanding of an Iraqi situation you may have come across, but far from the sophisticated scope of organizations that have been operating for decades like Hizballah and who are the very organizations behind terrorist campaigns such as the London bombings and 911. Were not talking about back desert Shieks, but organized structures who operate on American soil, receiving funding from laundering groups working as non-profit entities, and businesses intent on recruting "runners" and funding H&I operations.

I read you loud and clear! Now that we have established the money aspect of terrorism and touched slightly on organizational structure, what else do we need to discuss?

Interesting post USAF.

I still don't believe the majority of this forum realizes how serious the threat is.

The money aspect of terrorism, cell structure, and current ACTIVE organizations based on ACTIVE speeches delivering foreknowledge of intended targets.

What do you think abou that?

911blimp.net...

I knew that all the other Osama videos were fake, but did not know about this one... But when I watched it, the guy on the tape is really quite different... Quite interesting...

Has anyone actually ever thought about wether our media is actually for or against us? Ever thought why they always use the bad over the good? How about why they love to tell the enemy our plans, where our president is going to be, what time and what clothes he will be wearing? The latter being a bit extreme, but you grasp my point. I feel the media blows things out of proportion to rile the enemy into fighting and squabbling. I am not really a media loving person, being a military man myself, they don't do the Armed Forces any good and don't help us win back some of the respect we lost with those unfortunate events at Abu-Graib and other such incidents. The media needs to find a focus, a balance so to speak. With every one bad thing they report, they need to report a good. It may seem funny and moot, but it would help immensly.

To recap on one of my previous posts, things are going well in Iraq, believe it or not. The media doesn't cover everything of course, so it is up to people like myself to shed light on the situation who have had a first hand experience. Yes, there are bad things happening too, it happens all over the world. The focus is just on Iraq now. There is no point to keep reporting VBIED's and IED's exploding and killing various people. It is happening. There is no need to report that more American soldiers are dying daily. It is happeing and it is a shame, yes. It is hurting the American people when the media throws the deaths in the news paper ie. "American Death Toll." "Italian Death Toll." "Estonian Death Toll." They are comparing countrys' death tolls like they are counting up medals at the Olympics. It is ludacris and obsurd to think that people get a rise out of this type of stuff. It is the media's fault and they need to learn to be more respectful and sympathetic to the American people. AM I right or am I wrong? Somebody please see an agreement in my words.

Originally posted by Malkut
What do you think abou that?
I knew that all the other Osama videos were fake, but did not know about this one... But when I watched it, the guy on the tape is really quite different... Quite interesting...

There needed to be justification for Afghanistan so we could lay that big pipeline in record time, but also to have an AO for taking out training camps and networking. Forget about the taliban - it's the training camps, and most of them are in Pakistan. You see with an operating base that means you have funding an operations for the CIA to bolster networks, which have severely lacked since the 80's. Pakistan's ISI was running the show - until now. Osama is good justification since he is anti-American and a terrorist who actively participates and directly funds terrorism. He pissed off the CIA by going rogue and they got revenge on him just as they did on the soviets in Afghanistan for Vietnam. However, the soviets exacted revenge back on us. You think they would forget about the U.S. and Saudi Arabia causing them to lose the war in Afghanistan and bankrupting their economy? Putin is old school KGB and GRU. He watched as his mother land crumbled and he made us pay.

You are trying to point to a larger, philosophical theory, where in reality the focus should be on terrorists, and their applications now. It's called "working up the chain," or networking. When you pass names around, those names are viewed by people, researched, and remembered. Word of mouth can be a powerful anesthetic to terrorism. Focusing on active groups who are commiting logistics, bodies, and COMMUNICATING through non-profit organizations, charities and so forth, creates a tighter net within the populace. Focusing on theories provides nothing but release of CO2.

I disagree.
Terrorism is a hydra, and we can cut heads off till the cows come home and there will be three more to replace each decapitation. Don't get me wrong though, I think that it is important to do all the things that you are suggesting, we cannot neglect any threat. However we cannot forget how political policy effects the intencity and frequency of these groups. In your origional post you quote the Qur'an, well as with any religon, there is interpritation. In refrence to the passage you've quoted al-islam.org has this to say.

What are the meanings of these verses? Do they mean that we must fight these people regardless of whether they are about to attack us? Is the command unconditional so that we must fight them whether they intend or not to attack us, whether they are guilty of aggression or not?

There are two possible views. One is that the command remains unconditional. "The People of the Book are not Muslims, so we are allowed to fight them. We are allowed to fight the non-Muslims until we subdue them. If they are not Muslims and not People of the Book, we should fight them until either they become Muslims or we kill them. If they are People of the Book, we should fight them until they become Muslims or, if they do not become Muslims, until they pay us tribute - such is the opinion of those who say that the verse remains unconditional.

The other view, however; holds that the unconditional must be interpreted as the conditional. Someone with this view would say that the other Quranic verses bring us the conditions for the legitimacy of jihad, we realize that the true meaning of the verses is not unconditional at all. What, then, are the conditions for the legality of jihad? Amongst them, for example, are the following:
that the other side intends to attack us; or that it creates a barrier against the call of Islam, meaning that it negates the freedom of that call and becomes an obstacle to its diffusion, while Islam says that those barriers are to be removed. Or, likewise, in the
case of a people subject to the oppression and tyranny of a group from amongst themselves, Islam says that we must fight those tyrants so as to deliver the oppressed from the claws of tyranny.
.....

Nowhere in the Quran are we told to fight the mushrikin until they pay the jezyah, and to fight them no more once they have paid it. Concerning the People of the Book, however, we are told that once they are willing to pay the jezyah, we are to fight them no longer. This is a difference that clearly exists.

here's a quote for you.
"So if they withdraw from you, have not fought with you, and have put forward peace to you, then God has not placed a path for you against them." (4:90)

We must untagle the knot instead of cutting off the loose ends. And in order to do this we MUST point to larger, philosophical theories, instead of running around cutting of hydra heads.

Originally posted by Halfofone
We must untagle the knot instead of cutting off the loose ends. And in order to do this we MUST point to larger, philosophical theories, instead of running around cutting of hydra heads.

You couldn't be more wrong. Philosopohical talk won't stop the killing, only action will. While you discuss theories, there are active cells with targets. Cutting off the head of active cells WILL stop action. You say 3 or 4 will immediately replace a killed terrorist - not so. It takes much time to infiltrate a trained operative, into a "story" that he may live and work, make drops, cache equipment, and weapons. This all takes time and you cannot replace a rolled up network overnight, nor funding. If you deny funding for a cell to move from one location to another - you have denied a target. An everyday working civilian could deny such.

Will a cell be replaced, yes, but if you keep breaking them down, and deny them the ability to burrough into a "story," or idenity, then you effectively deny targets and casualties. The problem is cells adapt to police and FBI tactics. They use family members to maneuver, and regular jobs such as working in factories to live normal lives, until there is a time to strike. Bottomline, there must be coordinated communication. Cells must be activated. When you see a large amount of traffic, such as more laundering schemes, then you know a target is being cased and cells are being moved.

In order to understand this reality you must be educated. I believe every civilian should be educated in this, as the very people you work with are possibly cell members. I'm not saying be suspicious of everyone. What I am saying is there are certain things everyone should be aware of so you do not hesitate when action is required.

This includes the active group names and leaders. If you here a man speak of such, you will know that individual is a sympathizer and possibly a runner for that paticular group. You can also utilize these very names under suspicion of a subject, to assuade members of a target. Making it known that you oveheard a conversation or that you are on to someone video taping a facility will deny a target.







[edit on 20-7-2005 by vincere7]

Many of you believe that 911 was the work of the government, as well as the London bombings. This won't change the fact that we are at war. Jihad has been judged against us by the major Islamic groups of the world. It has been judged from Mecca, and by the main clerics, and ratified on paper by signatories!

Whether you accept this or not, means little as there will be further attacks for years to come. When a man is given an objective, it may take years for that objective to be achieved. Politics, Muslim acceptance, desegregation, and newly elected presidents, will not influence, or deter a man, or woman intent on completing their Jihad.

Get your head straight, Jihad has been declared, it has been signed and ratified. The quicker you understand and recognize the groups who are committed to waging Jihad the better equipped you'll be to dissuade action.

That is all well and good, and I agree that the current threats should be dealt with.
But what do you propose we do about the future?
What about how these groups are forming, and why?
When the islamics are "dealt with" then who's next ?
When will we declare victory in this war? Will we ever?

You propose we play wack-a-mole with these groups into infinity.
I propose we raze the field.

Originally posted by Halfofone
That is all well and good, and I agree that the current threats should be dealt with.
But what do you propose we do about the future?

What about the now? The problem is now and the future will only bring more attacks.

Originally posted by Halfofone
What about how these groups are forming, and why?

The groups are formed, not forming. We know from Bin Laden's actions since the mid 80's, that the why, is due to Western ideals being different than that of fundemental Islamic ideals, and our connection with Israel. The CIA has pissed off Islam along the way, but this should not be a pretext for terrorism, however to Hizballah, and the Brotherhood, terrorism(guerilla warfare) is a sound agenda.

Originally posted by Halfofone
When the islamics are "dealt with" then who's next ?

Why are you dealing in, what if's? Who cares, focus on the real danger. When you're at war with an enemy do you worry about what enemy will come after you, when you have not defeated the first?

Originally posted by Halfofone
When will we declare victory in this war? Will we ever?

All I know is there exists terror cells in America and abroad who are seeking a vast increase in terror activity in the United States and internationally. We know these groups, and sponsors, have declared Jihad on us, with the aid of foreign government and decree from Mecca. We are at war, they are at war. There will be no compromise. They are intent on destroying what they can. There will be no negotiating. If you are in a target, you're kindness or rationality will not save you.

Originally posted by Halfofone
You propose we play wack-a-mole with these groups into infinity.
I propose we raze the field.

I propose what the top CT experts propose, roll up the nets, keep them running. Starve their resources, deny their H&I, and eliminate network building and funding.


Raze the field? Be more specific.

On the London Bombing

"We are going to be issuing CCTV images of four men we urgently want to trace," Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Any Hayman told a press conference before showing images of the suspected bombers.

Hayman said "if anyone believes they know the identity of the men or has other information about them or their movements" they should immediately contact the police.

"It's time for the public to do what they're very good at, which is to support investigations," he said, adding that the investigations were very "fast moving".

The public needs to get involved.