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Military Admits Gitmo Abuse, Lets Commander Skate

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posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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Pentagon officials released the long-awaited report on allegations of prisoner abuse at the Guantánamo, Bay detention facility yesterday. In doing so, they acknowledged the numerous incidents of abuse documented in the report but refused to follow recommendations to discipline the Army officer in charge of the prison camp during the time period when most documented abuses occurred.



According to press references, among the abuses documented in the report by Air Force Lieutenant-General Randall Schmidt’s investigation are incidents in which personnel smeared detainees with fake menstrual blood, a prisoner’s family was threatened, prisoners were deprived of sleep and exposed to extreme temperatures, detainees were shackled detainees to the floor for as long as 24 hours, and captors bound one prisoner with duct tape to prevent him from reciting the Qur’an.

"It is irrefutable that the government violated the Geneva Conventions and the Army Field Manual," said ACLU executive director Anthony Romero in a press statement. "As before, low-ranking men and women will take the full blame while the higher ups get off scot-free. ...Once again, we have abuse without high-level accountability. That will only encourage impunity and allow the abuse to continue,"

Source:
NewStandard News

Excuse me?

Did I read that Correctly?

Military ADMITS Gitmo Abuses?

I did not Expect to Live Long 'Nuff to Read this kind of News.

More to Read here:

US report cites 'degrading' Guantanamo treatment

Senate looks at Guantanamo abuse inquiry




posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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"It is irrefutable that the government violated the Geneva Conventions and the Army Field Manual," said ACLU executive director Anthony Romero in a press statement. "As before, low-ranking men and women will take the full blame while the higher ups get off scot-free. ...Once again, we have abuse without high-level accountability. That will only encourage impunity and allow the abuse to continue,"


The reputation of the military as an honorable institution has been tarnished by its own leaders. And unfortunately, many of the soldiers take that as a signal. And then the military wonder why they're having trouble recruiting people? Who wants to be one of those low-ranking people who take the fall for the big guys? Who wants to join an organization that would spit in the face of the Geneva Convention and their own basic rules?



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The reputation of the military as an honorable institution has been tarnished by its own leaders. And unfortunately, many of the soldiers take that as a signal. And then the military wonder why they're having trouble recruiting people? Who wants to be one of those low-ranking people who take the fall for the big guys? Who wants to join an organization that would spit in the face of the Geneva Convention and their own basic rules?

But when are the Big Fishes going to be Falling?

The Ones that Ordered and the Ones that Approved of those Violations to be carried out?

I guess thats going to happen when the Heaven Falls down on us all...



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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Yeah, Gitmo's a 5-star hotel alright.


This is just one base, too, guys. The US has bases all over the world that they have sent detainees to, totally out of civilian and mainstream sight and behind closed doors. I've read reports of worse coming out of the bases in the Mid-East.

I'd like someone to explain the following image to me. It's graphic, so I'm simply linking to it for the sake of not being moderated.

www.vialls.com...

Is this standard procedure? I don't quite understand.

[edit on 16-7-2005 by bsbray11]



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
This is just one base, too, guys. The US has bases all over the world that they have sent detainees to, totally out of civilian and mainstream sight and behind closed doors. I've read reports of worse coming out of the bases in the Mid-East.

You are probalbly Right.

There are many more Camps that we do NOT know of anyway...



I'd like someone to explain the following image to me. It's graphic, so I'm simply linking to it for the sake of not being moderated.

I have seen this Image before.

Thats your usual way of "Information Extraction", you know?



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
Is this standard procedure? I don't quite understand.


I think it's probably a lot more standard than we are permitted to hear about. Like I said, I can't be proud of it. Sorry. If they want my respect (and why should they?) they're going to have to behave in a manner that deserves it. If they want my kids to join them, they're SOL...



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:33 PM
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Gitmo detainee's have it EASY compared to this guy:

www.abovetopsecret.com...




Nothing wrong at Club Gitmo at all. Maybe you guys should comment on all the REAL toruture that happens in this world instead of hating the USA. But you guys are blind to that.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Nothing wrong at Club Gitmo at all. Maybe you guys should comment on all the REAL toruture that happens in this world instead of hating the USA. But you guys are blind to that.

C'mon skippy!

Even your OWN Military Admits that there were several Cases of Abuses in Gitmo - why cant You?

Nothing Wrong at Club Gitmo at all?

Yea RIGHT!

[edit on 16/7/05 by Souljah]



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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In a sense it is very sad to see. I've always thought of the US as more of a sensible country, but it seems to me they are willfully trying to turn public perception against them. It is almost like they are trying to see how far can they out and out lie, before they are called to task. Like a child learning their boundries.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Skippy's philosophy is apparently "as long as it's better than what someone else does, it's OK." American nationalism is hard to get over. Even when we're not better than everyone else, we're still better than somebody!



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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Excuse me, but of 24,000+ interrogations performed at CLUBGitmo, there were how many substantiated instances of abuse?

Did you say just 3 to 5 substantiated?! And that was over a three year period, you say?


Covering a three-year period with more than 24,000 interrogations, the investigators found "only three interrogation acts" that violated Army Field Manual regulations and Department of Defense guidance. "No torture occurred," they concluded. "Detention and interrogation operations were safe, secure and humane."

Report: 'Degrading and abusive treatment' but no torture at Guantanamo Bay
No Gitmo torture, Senate panel told

Oh my, get out your K-Mart bluelights, cause we certainly have a problem. Abuse and torture surely runs amuk within CLUBGitmo.

Please do, define torture and the uses of torture that are occurring at CLUBGitmo, please do.




seekerof

[edit on 16-7-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Please do, define torture and the uses of torture that are occurring at CLUBGitmo, please do.

By the "Sound of Your Voice" I can see you are a Standup Supporter of "CLUB Gitmo" and other Resorts of such kind - just as skippy is.

For both of you I suggest the Following Reading:

CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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Please contrast and compare the "torture" used at CLUBGitmo to that of the link you just provided, Souljah.

Here is a short list for you of those "acts of torture" performed at CLUBGitmo:


Military investigators, looking into allegations by FBI agents at Guantanamo Bay that interrogators abused prisoners, verified some of the agents' complaints. Some of the activities they raised concerns about were in fact authorized; others were actual abuses, investigators said Wednesday. A look some of the allegations, and the investigators' findings:

•FBI: Twice prisoners were "short-shackled" to the floor in an interrogation room, meaning they were chained in a way that forced them into a fetal position. Military: Substantiated. There were also allegations that detainees were left in this way for long periods and fouled themselves, but investigators said they could not verify this happened.

•FBI: An interrogator had a military policeman place duct tape over a noisy prisoner's mouth to quiet him. Military: Substantiated.

•FBI: Military interrogators impersonated FBI and State Department agents. Military: Substantiated, but this was an authorized tactic. Interrogators stopped using it at the FBI's request.

•FBI: Interrogators used excessive heat, cold and noise to make prisoners uncomfortable. They also disrupted their sleep patterns. Military: Substantiated, but authorized tactic.

•FBI: Interrogators used dogs to threaten detainees. Military: Substantiated but authorized tactic with at least one detainee.

•FBI: Female interrogators used "gender coercion" techniques to make male Muslims uncomfortable. In one case, an interrogator rubbed perfume on a detainee; in another, an interrogator rubbed against a prisoner's back. In another, an interrogator rubbed fake menstrual blood on a detainee. Military: Substantiated, and these were, in general, authorized tactics. In the back-rubbing case, the interrogator's supervisor was admonished. In the blood case, the interrogator herself was disciplined. She said she was getting back at the detainee, who had just spit on her. Another allegation, that an interrogator gave a detainee a lap dance, was not substantiated by military investigators.

•FBI: Military personnel interfered with FBI interrogations. Military: Unsubstantiated.

•FBI: Military interrogators denied food and water to prisoners. Military: Unsubstantiated.

Inquiry finds abuse, not torture at Guantanamo

Abuse and torture have two distinct applied applications and meanings, Souljah. Please do identify from the list above a real man's "acts of torture," will ya? I emailed Senator Ted Kennedy's office and asked him the samething. I have yet to recieve a response from him....






seekerof

[edit on 16-7-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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To gitmo, or not to gitmo........that is the question of the day.

IMHO- There are obviously human rights abuses going on at MANY american millitary instillations, around the globe. Do our abuses compare to those of the present or the past? No!!

Are we however losing our legitamacy due to hyporitical policy based upon subjective criteria? YES!!!!

Will history look upon us with a subjective eye, reserving judgement for the most fanatical of our time? IMHO, No!

Are we all responsible for our own violations, regardless of enemy conduct? YES!!!!

Let us as a nation not take the opportunity to prove ourselves as bloodthristy as the terrorist. No matter what the specifics. Let it be said that in a time of propaganda, and a time of manipulation, you did not fall victim to that mallady of the herd philosophy. Let it be said that you observed all the relevant data, and drew your own conclusions, without accepting the words of another.

Let it be said that you followed your intellect, and not your heart.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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It's just abuse? Oh, well what are they crying about? If the best we can say is that we're abusing people who haven't been charged with a crime, I guess it is kind of like a resort. Where do I sign up? The pictures I've seen? I can't wait!

Also, I know the government has lied about everything they can get away with and made up stories to support their lies and I have serious suspicions that they have killed many of their own people and blamed it on other organizations, but I guess I should believe them on this. Yeah, that makes sense.

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN
www.forbes.com...

And skippy, I'm fairly new here and when I first read your "American-hater" accusations I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I thought maybe you really didn't understand. I've come to realize that you get it, you just like to throw that out there to get a rile out of people. You like to call people names who don't agree with you to make them look bad. Well, have fun!


Great post, phoenixhasrisin!



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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I would like to see Your Approval of these "Abuses" if the Shoe was on the Other Foot - if the Iraq Forces Abused US Soldiers in this kind of "Ways and Techniques".

I wonder what kind of Crusade that would Trigger....



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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Acts of terrorism: good.
Beheadings: good.
Killing innocents and children: good.
Booby trapping dead bodies:good.
Targeting and killing anyone: good.

Sleep disruption: torture and bad.
Putting duct tape over a loud mouth: torture and bad
Chained and/or shackled: torture and bad
Rubbed perfume on self: torture and bad.
barking mean dogs: torture and bad.
Etc.: torture and bad.


Yes, Souljah, I see your point......





seekerof

[edit on 16-7-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof:
Acts of terrorism: good.
Beheadings: good.
Killing innocents and children: good.
Booby trapping dead bodies:good.
Targeting and killing anyone: good.

Sleep disruption: torture and bad.
Putting duct tape over a loud mouth: torture and bad
Chained and/or shackled: torture and bad
Rubbed perfume on self: torture and bad.
barking mean dogs: torture and bad.
Etc.: torture and bad.


Yes, Souljah, I see your point......


Is this really his point, Seekerof? At least I did not get this impression... But have you asked yourself what triggered those acts that you are talking about? Do you think that the allged tortures and abuses are helping the US image and help decrease acts of terrorism? Is that your point?



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Sleep disruption: torture and bad.
Putting duct tape over a loud mouth: torture and bad
Chained and/or shackled: torture and bad
Rubbed perfume on self: torture and bad.
barking mean dogs: torture and bad.
Etc.: torture and bad.


Appendix 3: Alleged detention and interrogation practices

The following are some of the detention or interrogation practices that are alleged to have been authorized or used by the USA during the "war on terror". Some appear to have been tailored to specific cultural or religious sensitivities of the detainees, thereby introducing a discriminatory element to the abuse. Techniques are often used in combination. Neither gender nor age has offered protection. Children, the elderly, women and men are reported to have been among the subjects of torture or ill-treatment. This list does not claim to be exhaustive.

# Abduction
# Barbed wire, forced to walk barefoot on
# Blindfolding
# "Burking" – hand over detainee’s mouth/nose to prevent breathing
# Cell extraction, brutal/punitive use of
# Chemical/pepper spray, misuse of
# Cigarette burns
# Claustrophia-inducing techniques, e.g. tied headfirst in sleeping bag, shut in lockers
# Death threats
# Dietary manipulation
# Dogs used to threaten and intimidate
# Dousing in cold water
# Electric shocks, threats of electric shocks
# Exposure to weather and temperature extremes, especially via air-conditioning
# Flags, wrapped in Israeli or US flags during or prior to interrogation
# Food and water deprivation
# Forced shaving, ie of head, body or facial hair
# Forcible injections, including with unidentified substances
# Ground, forced to lie on bare ground while agents stand on back or back of legs
# Hooding
# Hostage-taking, i.e. individuals detained to force surrender of relatives
# Humiliation, eg forced crawling, forced to make animal noises, being urinated upon.
# Immersion in water to induce perception of drowning
# Incommunicado detention
# Induced perception of suffocation or asyphxiation
# Light deprivation
# Loud music, noise, yelling
# Mock execution
# Photography and videoing as humiliation
# Physical assault, eg punching, kicking, beatings with hands, hose, batons, guns, etc
# Physical exercise to the point of exhaustion, e.g. "ups and downs", carrying rocks
# Piling, i.e. detainee is sat on or jumped on by one or more people ("dog/pig pile")
# Prolonged interrogations, eg 20 hours
# Racial and religious taunts, humiliation
# Relatives, denial of access to, excessive censorship of communications with
# Religious intolerance, eg disrespect for Koran, religious rituals
# Secret detention
# Secret transfer
# Sensory deprivation
# Sexual humiliation
# Sexual assault
# Shackles and handcuffs, excessive and cruel use of. Includes "short shackling"
# Sleep adjustment
# Sleep deprivation
# Solitary confinement for prolonged periods, eg months or more than a year
# Stress positions, eg prolonged forced kneeling and standing
# Stripping, nudity, excessive or humiliating use of
# Strip searches, excessive or humiliating use of
# Strobe lighting
# Suspension, with use of handcuffs/shackles
# Threat of rape
# Threats of reprisals against relatives
# Threat of transfer to third country to inspire fear of torture or death
# Threat of transfer to Guantánamo
# Threats of torture or ill-treatment
# Twenty-four hour bright lighting
# Withdrawal of "comfort items", including religious items
# Withholding of information, e.g. not telling detainee where he is
# Withholding of medication
# Withholding of toilet facilities, leading to defecation and urination in clothing

web.amnesty.org...
web.amnesty.org...

ALSO RECOMMENDED READ:

Prisoners of War

Human Rights

[edit on 16/7/05 by Souljah]



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 04:23 PM
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Let me guess, your another that believes if their was no war, there would be no terrorism? Or maybe that if there was no occupation, there would be no terrorism?

You are aware that terrorism has been around and performed contrary to those assertions, as mentioned above?

And yes, that is exactly my point.
When Souljah ceases with the rhetoric, then the rhetoric returned ceases.
This has been a long a spawning process between him and I, anyhow, correct, Souljah?




seekerof



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