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NEWS: Tennessee Teen Jailed for Burning U.S. Flag

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posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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Yes Mr. Reid and this is the News Forum. Decorum please and don't circumvent the censors.




posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by LoganCale
With your view of "burn the flag and die!" it pushes us dangerously closer to tyranny and blind nationalism (something which already exists in many people). The. Flag. Is. Just. A. Piece. Of. Cloth. It represents our country and its freedom, but it's just a piece of cloth. Our freedom is in the Constitution, not the flag. Try respecting that. I don't see people burning it in protest... I wonder why. Maybe it's because they're protesting the fact that the government is taking away the rights defined in it.

Why respect the constitution it is just a peice of papers stuck together? Why respect our soldiers, they are just some people who go trotting off with guns!
Why respect my neighbourhood, I can just start a whore house!
Is that the logic you bring that one peice of our nation is more important than another? Well thats just ludcrious!
Nationalism and loyalty to your nation is not "blind", it is demanded by all the citizens and it a must that they show it. If not they are free to leave or hang from the nearest lamp post!

Just because some words are written on a peice of paper doesnt mean that without that peice of paper you dont have your freedom! That is silly!
The constituion is as less significant than the flag, because after all it is just a book just like 'Robinson Cruso'! Whats the difference? The constitution has laws written by somebody and the latter has some story written by somebody else! It about that much.
Why does no body burn the constituion? Duh! Because no body care enough to bother about the constituion! It isnt a symbol of what America stands for(every nation has one!), it is seen as just another legislative text that most people dont understand! But only America has out Flag!!

While the flag on the other hand represents America, its people, its constitution, its founding priciples. That is why some deviants bother to burn the Flag and not the constituion!



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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The constituion is as less significant than the flag, because after all it is just a book just like 'Robinson Cruso'!


Oh how blind you must be to put off the most important document in this country. The Constitution is the foundation upon which all else has been built, and honestly I find it more insulting for it to be disrespected than the flag. Compare them if you will to brick(The Constitution) and paint(The Flag) on a house; the paint makes it look nice, but the bricks are what make the house stand up and have shape, rather thain being a pile of rubble.

We respect(or should) our constituion because its what makes this country possible and functional, we respect the soldiers because they do a job many would not, and we respect out neighborhoods because its where we raise our families, so why all this anger over the Flag and not the transgressions against our way of life and freedom? Perhaps you(IAF101) are just looking for someone to rile up or put down because they dont agree with what you would otherwise force upon them?



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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If Someone can Flush the Holy Qu'ran Down the Toilet - why cant the Other Burn the Flag?

Both acts are Non-Acceptable - but one is Protected by the Law the other is not.

Freedom of Speech?

What Freedom?

Where?



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
If Someone can Flush the Holy Qu'ran Down the Toilet -


Who are you saying is doing this?



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Souljah
If Someone can Flush the Holy Qu'ran Down the Toilet -

Who are you saying is doing this?

Errr...Most of the People that want to Interrogete Muslim Prisoners, Maybe?

[edit on 16/7/05 by Souljah]



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Again, meaning who? Just spell it out for me.

I guess it was just propaganda, right Souljah.


[edit on 16-7-2005 by intrepid]



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
MemoryShock

The state in question has a law on the books making this a criminal act. However even the prosecutors in the article state it will be bucked up to the SC if he gets convicted.


Thanks FredT.........can't believe this........this had better be overturned.

I don't have the time to address IAF, but sir, get it together. The Flag is a reminder. Photos are a reminder. In fact, if you did some homework, you would find that everything external of your mind is a reminder of something or other. To live well and to treat others with respect does not require a flag. If somone wants to burn a flag, I'll hand them a lighter.

Means nothing.

Imprisoning/punishing someone for an act that ultimately doesn't hurt anyone including themselves, destroys noone else's property, and ultimately accomplishes nothing, is facism. Plain and Simple.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Again, meaning who? Just spell it out for me.

I guess it was just propaganda, right Souljah.


[edit on 16-7-2005 by intrepid]

NEWS: Declassified FBI Records Back Up Newsweek Koran Report

WAR: Koran Flushing & Abuse - Newsweek Retracts, Washington Post Digs Deeper

Muslim world condems the koran desecration By U.S interrogators



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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IAF says:


Burning the flag is not free speach[sic]! This is your country and disrespecting it is not your option! You either put up or shut up!


IAF, I guess it depends on where you're from. I don't know your nationality, but in my country (the United States of America) burning a flag is protected speech.

Now, as a Vietnam-era military veteran, I personally find burning the flag as not only a tasteless and childish act, but one that offends me deeply. However, one of the reasons I enlisted was to protect America's freedoms for Americans, and one of those freedoms is to do things that you or I may personally find offensive.

Again, perhaps things are different in your country.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by alternateheaven
Oh how blind you must be to put off the most important document in this country. The Constitution is the foundation upon which all else has been built,

One question:
Which came before the concept of freedom or that piece of paper?
The constition may be the most important peice of paper but so is the flag the most important piece of cloth in this country!

Every nation has a constitution not every nation has our flag though.

Originally posted by alternateheaven
and honestly I find it more insulting for it to be disrespected than the flag. Compare them if you will to brick(The Constitution) and paint(The Flag) on a house; the paint makes it look nice, but the bricks are what make the house stand up and have shape, rather thain being a pile of rubble.

You are free to express you opinion!
Your analogy is wrong! A proper one would be that the constitution makes up the physical while the Flag makes up the spirit of America. Its isnt paint, why do you think orld over all those who hate us burn the flag and not the constitution? Not because they cant get their hands on it but because it doesnt mean much to many people, it doesnt symbolise America completely, it is just a legal contract if you will which we follow, it is not our Spirit!!

Originally posted by alternateheaven
We respect(or should) our constituion because its what makes this country possible and functional,........so why all this anger over the Flag and not the transgressions against our way of life and freedom? Perhaps you(IAF101) are just looking for someone to rile up or put down because they dont agree with what you would otherwise force upon them?

Another one:
If that book were to magically disappear will that mean people in this country will have no more freedoms?
The constitution is merely a legal contract that our forefathers have written to bind us all together. If it was so holy a document then most people would never commit any offences but many do because it is just a document of laws and principles in writing! But the flag is all those things in the spirit, the American spirit!

I wont answer the regular 'government violating our rights' BS, most conspiracy nuts arent raional and so reason goes straight out the window.
Look whos talking!!
I am merely expressing my view ( without buring any 'FLAG' mind you! ) why cant you[alternateheaven] live with that, if you are such a champion for the "our way of life and freedom" rhetoric? Guess you just fight for your freedom but dont allow other to actually use theirs!



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Alternateheaven says:


Oh how blind you must be to put off the most important document in this country. The Constitution is the foundation upon which all else has been built, and honestly I find it more insulting for it to be disrespected than the flag. Compare them if you will to brick(The Constitution) and paint(The Flag) on a house; the paint makes it look nice, but the bricks are what make the house stand up and have shape, rather thain being a pile of rubble.


Off_the_Street says:


You have voted alternateheaven for the Way Above Top Secret Award. You have two more votes this month.


It's great to read something by a person who understands what the United States of America is all about.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:50 PM
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I think I have a fair compromise to this situation. For most Americans, like 80% if not more the flag is more then just a cloth it is a symbol. To most we rather not see it burned. To some of us it is very disheartening and disrespectful to see this. Some really dont care either way. For those who think (wyrdeone) that freedom, liberty and justice are words that have just lost their meaning, then you are really to comfortable in this democracy and if it weren`t for those three words with a lot of meaning you wouldn`t even be here debating this right now. Bottom line is millions of men and women have died and spilled their blood for the meanings of these three words. Free speech is one thing but when something you do offends so many others it should not be allowed. Thats what a democracy is all about. What I propose is that if you are so belligerent and arrogant that you feel the need to burn an American Flag, do so in your own home, perhaps the fireplace and no one will see or complain about it. But once you do it in public view it should be a crime against humanity, because you are offending so many people who`s respect runs deep for those who have died and lost loved ones fighting for these three words.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah

NEWS: Declassified FBI Records Back Up Newsweek Koran Report

WAR: Koran Flushing & Abuse - Newsweek Retracts, Washington Post Digs Deeper

Muslim world condems the koran desecration By U.S interrogators


Yup, propaganda. We're talking about an American burning the flag. So your first post is invalid. There is no comparison between burning ones own flag and the Koran debacle. As I said propaganda.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Yup, propaganda. We're talking about an American burning the flag. So your first post is invalid. There is no comparison between burning ones own flag and the Koran debacle. As I said propaganda.

Hmmmm...

So - if I go now in the Street and Burn the US Flag while Flushin the Holy Qu'ran, what would that make me?



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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Taken to u2u, let the topic continue.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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csulli says:


Free speech is one thing but when something you do offends so many others it should not be allowed. Thats what a democracy is all about.


No problem there. I suppose that interracial marriage still offends so many others; I guess it shouldn't be allowed, either. That's what a democracy is all about.

And I think a lot of people, especially those my age, are against body piercings and tattoos, and especially those stupid backwards-facing baseball caps. We need to ban them. That's what a democracy is all about.

Csulli, you may not be aware of this, but we do not live in a "democracy"; we live in a Constitutional Republic, and the Constitution gives rights to people who may upset you, whether it's by burning the flag, wearing their baseball caps backwards, or worshipping in a different church.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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Piercings dont stand for the lives lost for Americans to be free. A backwards baseball cap doesn`t promote justice. Interracial marriage is a human right to procreate with whoever we damn please. I`m sorry but your analogy just isn`t up to par.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
IAF, I guess it depends on where you're from. I don't know your nationality, but in my country (the United States of America) burning a flag is protected speech.

Well, Off_the_street,
That is your opinion on why you fough and what not! But the informed would retract your statement about "but in my country (the United States of America) burning a flag is protected speech."
Because if perhaps you had taken the trouble to read the link provided in the start you migh have encountered this statement:


The teenager was released from jail Thursday on his own recognizance while he awaits his Aug. 2 trial on charges of desecrating a venerated object, underage drinking, littering, evading arrest, burning personal property and theft.
The Tennessee flag-burning statute makes the crime a misdemeanor, punishable by less than a year in jail and up to $2,500 fine.

Also supposedly the state of Tennessee lies in the North American continent and apparently isnt part of Canada, Mexico or anyother known state except the "United States Of America" but thats "your" country isnt it?
Here's what it looks like on the map:



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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desecrating a venerated object


My point is that a venerated object is subjective......different for everyone.

A legal determination enforcing the identification of the American flag as 'venerated' is absurd. It's like mixing church and state.



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