our earth is in big danger: our climat is possibly out of control

Originally posted by yavis
I think we do have to worry now and do something about it, before it s too late.

yavis

You're ignoring the point that I made - that we're coming out of an ice age, therefore the climate is warming up, but it's not out of control.

Dawnstar, as you might imagine, I've mentioned the stupidity of building a home on the beach to folks who own a home on the beach. They always say it's worth the risk. My question is, who's risk? Morons make everyone's insurance go up.
If I had it my way, those who live in areas that are prone to major destruction and live there because of the beauty should not be covered by anything less than high-risk, expensive insurance, and should not receive any government money when (surprise!) a storm destroys their houses! Then, would it be worth the risk?

Ph, and while I'm at it; in reference to those in California who build houses on steep, unsteady hillsides for the scenic view, YOU'RE IDIOTS, TOO! QUIT WASTING GOVERNMENT MONEY!

landfills,pollution,extintions,global warming well the world probaly wont be saved with bush in power

Brilliant statement.

Yup, the world became imperiled under Bush's watch, and Bush is responsible for the actions of the whole world.

Do people read what they type?

PTS can be located by hitting the PTS button at the top of the page, if you're looking for Slug-fest.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

TC
Good calls abound in your last two posts.

On the issue of beach front property, I think you should be bound by VERY strict codes of building. Perhpas allowing nothing but concrete dome shaped housing? It would cut insurance adjustments to NILL. Those things never fall down. Refining the manufacturing cost could drive prices down as low as 10k per home.

I think it's the best solution for people in places like Florida and California. If you're going to live in a disaster area, at least live in a suitable home. Same thing goes for people who live in flood zones. They should all live in concrete dome homes with airlock main entrances. That way, when the water is rising, you just lock up your house and go elsewhere to wait for the floodwaters to recede.

It just makes sense, I honestly don't know why it hasn't been done already.

The people in Florida, bearing, what, 20+ billion in damages last hurricane season, why haven't they thought of this?

Originally posted by ShreddedIce

Originally posted by yavis
I think we do have to worry now and do something about it, before it s too late.

yavis

You're ignoring the point that I made - that we're coming out of an ice age, therefore the climate is warming up, but it's not out of control.

I m not ignoring it I m just not os sure that it isn t out of control (yet)

yavis

Originally posted by ShreddedIce
You people are talking like the Earth is a sentient being...I don't quite think that's right.

Whether or not you believe the Earth is a sentient being is not the whole point here...The Earth is a living & evolving bioshpere. After enough tinkering & damage has been done to the natural balance, the Earth will adjust itself to a different version of the ecosystem it has now. New species will adapt into new ecological niches & the species that can't adapt will go extinct.

With the amount & length of time that humanity has been polluting the oceans (From which the colonies of plankton still provide 3/4 of the oxygen content of our air), spewing literally thousands of tons of industrial emissions into the air (furthering ozone decay & otherwise fouling whatever air is left to breathe), strip-mining/deforestation (causing the extinction of an estimated 300 species per day) & improper disposal of toxic and/or radioactive wastes (extincting even more species as well as rendering arable land unfit for growing food & other plantlife which helps maintain atmospheric oxygen content)...How much longer before our one & only home readjusts its balance to the point where humanity can no longer exist?

This Earth has always been evolving (geologically at least, before the first lifeforms appeared) & the current living biosphere is beginning to change into something new. Considering the slow speed at which lifeforms adapt & evolve, humanity is very unlikely to adapt quickly enough to ensure its own survival.

Is it any wonder that, between the greedy short-sightedness of the world "leaders" & the rate at which our planet is being desecrated that I chose not to bring any kids into this world?

Originally posted by Loki
Ladies and gentlemen, if we could stop peddling hysteria for just a moment? The Earth is still in a state of recovery from her last Ice age. Yes, it's getting warmer. Durr. We're living in the middle of a planetary thaw period.

Granted, we are in between ice ages now...But humanity is causing it to warm faster & sooner than normal for the bioshpere...We're gradually speeding up the natural rate of those changes. As the Earth's biosphere is beginning to warm even more from unnatrual causes, the next ice age will come too late to help humanity. Do you understand that it only takes a global-wide mean average of 2 degrees farenheit of higher overall temperatures to start the disasters going? You see, the eco-groups that are working against such biosphere damage are not really trying to "save the planet"...They know & I figured out that the planet will survive & evolve...It's really us, humanity that they're trying to save from the changes that are beginning to happen.

Originally posted by dawnstar
if you remember, when the tidal wave hit asia, it seems the only ones dimwitted enough to be around when the wave hit was modern civilized man. the animals took off, as well as those "primitive" tribes that lived in the area.

Even the animals teach their young not to # where they eat & sleep...It's part of the "weaning" process. We're supposed to be more intelligent than the animals, so why haven't we learned that? We are a part of this biosphere & we've been intentionally changing it into a new form that won't support us after the changes reach a certain point.

Originally posted by chebob
Well said dawnstar. Denial is the key word, you can point out the facts as much as you want, but until they are actually dying, people will still say your a fanatical doomsday conspiracist.

That's the sad part, that most people would rather live in their own compost compared to giving up their current comforts (Remember the short-sightedness I mentioned earlier?)...But, generation after generation, those comforts will desintegrate gradually until they see that they can no longer find food because it's been buried under their own compost.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
We can do nothing to stop Earth's cycles, so prepare yourself, or prepare for you children depending on when you think the climate is going to change.

True...The people who currently live here aren't going to see the climate changing enough to make much difference to us, but you should consider what legacy we're passing on to the future generations.

Originally posted by dawnstar
okay, tell ya what, I'll go around and have a chat with the dairy cattle up here, see if I can't get them to hold onto their gas......you go down to the gulf, and try to talk those people who've had their homes damaged and destroyed to relocate and rebuild inland, off the pennisula. Good luck!! For some reason, I think I'd have more luck with the cows than you have with the people!!!

And while that's going on, I'll go talk to Bush & his Bully Boy Gang of Corporate Lackeys about reconsidering signing the Kyoto treaties...For all the good that'll do. If that succeeds (Figure the odds of that), I'll pop on over & talk to the Chinese government too.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Animals have become extinct before, and it happens every day.

Yes, that's true...At best estimates, the Earth currently supports a fraction of 1% of the total numbers of species that has ever existed in the history of life on this planet. But how many species have gone extinct due to mankind's actions alone? Species that otherwise may have survived, adapted & evoled...And not have gone extinct during the next climatic cycle?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Ph, and while I'm at it; in reference to those in California who build houses on steep, unsteady hillsides for the scenic view, YOU'RE IDIOTS, TOO! QUIT WASTING GOVERNMENT MONEY!

Our money...Where do you think the government gets their money from?

Oh, that's right...They borrow more money (more accurately: corporate scrip) from the same banks that keep driving us deeper into debt...The same banks that handle the money that insurances companies get from us...The same money that all corporations deal with...
Talk about a lose/lose scenario for the vast majority of people who have to live with those jerks...

Granted, in the far future when our sun begins its nova stage, the Earth won't survive...Nothing lasts forever. We may even get hit by a "planet killer" hunk of rock before then. But don't you think we should learn how to get our own act together & learn how to live harmoniously with a biosphere before we figure out how to leave this planet & colonize others?

[edit on 20-7-2005 by MidnightDStroyer]

Thomas....


Hey, I can't believe it!!! But, I found a solution for your cow problem!!!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

kill the cows, grow the meat!!!


Ya know, you mention the cost of insurance going up because of people who decide to build their homes in areas where natural disasters are common. But, other things are driven up also.

The number of disasters seems to be going up, many you don't hear about. And some seem just a little odd. I read a story recently where the panic from a tornado was being blamed on the new War of the Worlds movie. Tornados must be pretty rare events there.

And, what about all those mini-disasters that we aren't hearing. Less an hour's worth of rain a few days ago cause the basements to flood, cars to stall out in the highway, and well, some houses had their foundations washed away and possibly were totaled, haven't heard about them lately. This all happened in my little neck of the woods and although usual for areas south of us, it's not that usual here.

People were forced out of their homes, emergency services provided, shelter had to be found for them, then, well, their homes had to be repaired or replaced. All this cost money, and I think most of it will come from the insurance companies and maybe some from our government. The wood, steel, and other materials had to be bought to build these homes, and much was more than likely bought from overseas and are in pretty big demand anyways. The cost of these materials more than likely go up as more people, rebuilding their homes, add to the demand. Our national debt also rises, since we are buying these things from overseas. And, as a side effect, businesses are effected also, and putting people out of work for awhile which equals loss of revenue.

If global warming is indeed happening, and things keep going much like they have, we can expect more and more violent storms, and maybe in places that have very little history of these occurances. So, it stands to reason to believe that insurance costs will hit the roof, which will be intensified by the rising cost of building materials, as well as our national debt....and all the while, the overall revenue of the nation would be hampered by this. It is quit possible that we could run out of credit long before we run out of natural disasters that need to be addressed in this country.

When the Pharoah had his dream interpreted by Joseph and was warned about the famine, what did he do? He prepared for it, stashed away some of the harvest, ect. So, when the famine came, his people had what they needed, and they actually had people coming to them for their food (that's how they managed to gain all those slaves!!).
What are we doing to prepare? Rebuilding Iraq so we all can relocate there?

And, well, sorry........but if my car catches on fire, I don't dowse it with gasoline hoping it will help. and that's what I think we are doing when it comes to global warming. even if we aren't the cause, I think it's not accurate to say we aren't helping it along when we pump so much more of those offending chemicals into our air!!!





[edit on 20-7-2005 by dawnstar]

Well how do you people explain all those storms of lately?

yavis

Originally posted by yavis
Well how do you people explain all those storms of lately?

yavis

It's hurricane season?

Originally posted by ShreddedIce

Originally posted by yavis
Well how do you people explain all those storms of lately?

yavis

It's hurricane season?

No that s not what I ment.

yavis

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

Granted, in the far future when our sun begins its nova stage, the Earth won't survive...[edit on 20-7-2005 by MidnightDStroyer]

Nice point. Who's to say that this is not already happening though? While I do believe human activity is responsible for PART of our recent climate change, I think it is human arrogance rearing its ugly head again that leads us to believe it is solely our fault.

Scientist have admitted a recent flare in solar activity, as can be seen in the surge of Aurora Borealis activity, and increased sunspots. They concluded it was part of a natural solar cycle(back in the 90's I think). Would we know the signs of our sun starting to explode? Would "they" tell the general public? Perhaps science has been wrong? Who knows. IMHO I think this has more to do with a dying star than people realize.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Intersting thread and I think it's getting a bit late. I once read that atmospheric polution takes as many years to repair itself as the years taken to polute it.

Dallas

(very abbreviated history)

Francis Bacon tied the scientific revolution to the Christian myth of fall and redemption. (1561-1626)-scientific knowledge a tool of power to subjegate and rule over nature-after all spiritual elements have been eliminated from nature, human spirit could rule it from the outside.
Calvinists and Puritanist developed the middle-class patriarchal family. Expansion by the Spanish and Portugeuse conquistadors. Newtonian physics became the the new paradigm- where powerful and wealthy Europeans appropriated resources- after all the witchhunting was finished- colonization with war and disease exterminated millions of 'native people' Agro- plantations continue to this day in Guatemala and Brazil. European elites imagined this way of life could conquer all problems.

The roots of evil lie in the patterns of domination. People deny interdependance and exalt their own power by draining everything else around them. It creates a culture of deceit, which justifies exploitation, negates the value of those they use, while denying their own dependence on them. (think illegal Mexican immigrants working in your local fast-food chain)

Solution?
Search for ecological culture and society- where primary and regional communities are built- where all members share in means of subsistance, and overcome competitive alienation and domination by compassionate solidarity. Lure 1 billion Christians into an ecological consciousness. Metanoia- have a change of heart and consiousness- Efficiency- men and women fully integrated into the culture of daily sustenance-

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Brilliant statement.

Yup, the world became imperiled under Bush's watch, and Bush is responsible for the actions of the whole world.

Do people read what they type?

PTS can be located by hitting the PTS button at the top of the page, if you're looking for Slug-fest.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Why blaims everyone Bush?
Ok he is responsable for a lot of things but still, THE WHOLE HUMANITY IS RESPONSABLE NOT ONLY BUSH!!!!!!!!!1


yavis

It would be ironic if our civilization was wiped out the year the Myan calender ends in 2012, wouldnt it? It seems the dates may be close together if not exact.

climate is out of control huh? Well I was never aware that we ever had control over the climate. Maybe its just the climate and its doing what its supposed to and we should stop worrying about it until something huge happens like a 5 degree increase.

Originally posted by truttseeker
climate is out of control huh? Well I was never aware that we ever had control over the climate. Maybe its just the climate and its doing what its supposed to and we should stop worrying about it until something huge happens like a 5 degree increase.

Yeah why not... let s just continue destroying our climate. And when it s bad enough we ll notice..........

im not saying that but what im saying is its not quite reasonable to call it out of control. Maybe its just the natural coarse of things and when we realize that it is for sure us then we should take huge measures. Until then we should still try to help the climate.

Originally posted by truttseeker
im not saying that but what im saying is its not quite reasonable to call it out of control. Maybe its just the natural coarse of things and when we realize that it is for sure us then we should take huge measures. Until then we should still try to help the climate.

Well now you re saying it better