Rove Learned About Plame From Journalists, page 3
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reply posted on 16-7-2005 @ 04:34 AM by koji_K
Originally posted by djohnsto77
Originally posted by koji_K
Could you expound on this? What report are you talking about? Wilson reported that claims of Iraq's attempt to purchase yellowcake from Niger were false, and it is generally accepted now that this was the case. The documents suggesting otherwise, which Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate, were themselves fabricated by dubious intelligence sources recruited by the OSP (namely, the one codenamed "curveball"). I know of no other evidence suggesting that Wilson did his job in Niger, and did it well.


This is not true. A bipartison Senate Intelligence Committee report totally discredited Wilson's report, and concluded he was a liar. British Intelligence stands by their report that Saddam was trying to get yellow cake from Niger.

www.nationalreview.com...

[edit on 7/15/2005 by djohnsto77]


I'm familiar with the Senate Intelligence Committee's Prewar Intelligence report... I must say that this is the first time I've seen someone calling themselves a conservative mention it on ATS.

The report made no such conclusion. It mentions Wilson's possible lack of grounds for making a comment that the forged documents were in fact forged to the Washington Post. Wilson's report to the CIA was given a grade of "good," in terms of its usefulness as intelligence.

The CIA and other intelligence agencies have not, to date, revealed any information regarding their "other sources" for the claim that Iraq attempted to procure uranium from Niger, although George Tenet and Condoleeza Rice have both claimed that had they known Bush was going to include mention of the Niger/Iraq connection in his State of the Union address, and had knowledge of Wilson's report, they would have asked that Bush not include the line in the speech.

The only conclusions on point which the report makes are that the CIA was at fault for not bringing Wilson's report to the attention of the Vice President.

Wilson's statements to the Committee, as opposed to his report, were criticized as differing from some conclusions he drew in his report. In his statement, he claimed that he knew the documents were forged when, according to the CIA, he would have had no way of knowing this, because he hadn't seen the documents. (The author of the article in the National Review conveniently doesn't make this distinction.) Either way, though, he was sent to Niger on the basis of these documents to investigate their credibility, and his report concluded that there was no evidence suggesting that they were, in fact credible. He did his job, and the CIA recognized that, yet failed to pass on his findings to the VP.

The "other sources" of information the CIA claims to have regarding Iraqi/Nigerien uranium sales have not been released or described, and were not the basis for Wilson's trip to Niger.


-koji K.



[edit on 16-7-2005 by koji_K]



reply posted on 16-7-2005 @ 07:44 PM by Sauron
Karl Rove signed a non-discloser agreement when he took office. Well he broke that agreement. you can read the disclosure agreement your self from the link below.
it is in Pdf format

Karl Rove's Nondisclosure Agreement

By: Rep. Waxman
Published: July 15, 2005 at 11:30

Snip~~

A fact sheet released today by Rep. Waxman explains that the nondisclosure agreement signed by Karl Rove prohibited Mr. Rove from confirming the identity of covert CIA agent Valerie Wilson to reporters. Under the nondisclosure agreement and the applicable executive order, even "negligent" disclosures to reporters are grounds for revocation of a security clearance or dismissal.

Karl Rove's Nondisclosure Agreement Today, news reports revealed that Karl Rove, the White House Deputy Chief of Staff and the President's top political advisor, confirmed the identity of covert CIA official Valerie Plame Wilson with Robert Novak on July 8, 2003, six days before Mr. Novak published the information in a nationally syndicated column.

These new disclosures have obvious relevance to the criminal investigation of Patrick Fitzgerald, the Special Counsel who is investigating whether Mr. Rove violated a criminal statute by revealing Ms. Wilson's identity as a covert CIA official.

Independent of the relevance these new disclosures have to Mr. Fitzgerald's investigation, they also have significant implications for: (1) whether Mr. Rove violated his obligations under his "Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement" and (2) whether the White House violated its obligations under Executive Order 12958. Under the nondisclosure agreement and the executive order, Mr. Rove would be subject to the loss of his security clearance or dismissal even for "negligently" disclosing Ms. Wilson's identity.

THE PROHIBITION AGAINST "CONFIRMING" CLASSIFIED INFORMATION

Mr. Rove, through his attorney, has raised the implication that there is a distinction between releasing classified information to someone not authorized to receive it and confirming classified information from someone not authorized to have it. In fact, there is no such distinction under the nondisclosure agreement Mr. Rove signed.

THE INDEPENDENT DUTY TO VERIFY THE CLASSIFIED STATUS OF INFORMATION

Mr. Rove was not at liberty to repeat classified information he may have learned from a reporter. Instead, he had an affirmative obligation to determine whether the information had been declassified before repeating it. The briefing booklet is explicit on this point: "before disseminating the information elsewhere ... the signer of the SF 312 must confirm through an authorized official that the information has, in fact, been declassified."5

Link

Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement," also known as a SF-312 Pdf Format

1 Executive Order No. 12958, Classified National Security Information (as amended), sec. 4.1(a) (Mar. 28, 2003)

2 Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement, Standard Form 312 (Prescribed by NARA/ISOO) (32 C.F.R. 2003, E.O. 12958)

5 Briefing Booklet, supra note 3, at 73.






[edit on 16/7/2005 by Sauron]


reply posted on 16-7-2005 @ 08:47 PM by Lecky
If I were a republican, the only thing I would fear right now is Patrick Fitzgerald. There is nothing holding this guy back from getting to the bottom of this case. We now have a journalist (if you wish to call her that) behind bars, Fitzgerald seems relentless for some answers. The judge even recognizes that this case goes beyond 1st amendment rights, I wouldn't be surprised if Fitzgerald continues to go after Judith Miller even harder for criminal contempt charges. Here is what the judge in Judy Miller's case has stated about the seriousness of this matter:


(pgs 28-29)
"Applying this standard to the facts of this case, and
considering first only the public record, I have no doubt that the
leak at issue was a serious matter. Authorized “to investigate
and prosecute violations of any federal criminal laws related to
the underlying alleged unauthorized disclosure, as well as
federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to
interfere with, investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of
justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses,”


I think a lot of people are getting too excited about Rove going down, we don't know what's going to happen legally. It's all mere speculation. Now that I've said that, I do agree with the democrats (and the press) for calling out the WH for stonewalling on this case. It has been dragging for more than 2 years, and I don't believe for a second that GWB wants to get to the bottom of this like he claims. Why didn't Karl Rove simply come forward before and state his conversations with the reporters? The fact that he didn't makes it even more suspicious. As for Rove hearing about Plame from some journalist...that's just laughable. If that's the case, there is still no excuse for his carelessness with potentionally classified information. ("I heard that too", "It was Wilson's wife...").

In my opinion the political damage has already happened, the Bush administration has a lot of explaining to do and the GOP has begun their spin. Not to mention the attempt to assassinate the character of Joe Wilson and his wife. The democrats have made their statement about Rove, it's obvious that Bush is not going to take any action unless there are some sort of indictments made. This could be the right decision or could end up slapping him in the face. Let's be realistic, it's not like Bush was all that surprised when the Newsweek article came out claiming Rove to be Matt Cooper's leak. Instead of focusing all our attention on attacking Rove, let's not forget the real issues at hand here:

Wilson's wife was outed because he had given crucial evidence that contradicted the White House's regarding going to war with Iraq.

This is huge and it ties in with the Downing Street Memos ("fixing the facts"). This is what jumps out to people and indicates the possible corruptness of the current administration. Most of us know that there has been an agenda (see PNAC) to take Saddam out of power years prior to 911. If only we listened to more people like Wilson maybe we wouldn't be in this predicament in Iraq (the soveriegn nation that had nothing to do with 911 and possessed no WMDs). Instead we could be working on building our homeland security as well as hunting for the terrorist organizations responsible. It seems like there is an ongoing cover up occuring in the WH if you ask me. It's obvious that the current administration was going to go to war with Iraq no matter what. Screw any facts that might get in the way! Once again, this is pure speculation on my part

Keep in mind that Fitzgerald may not have enough evidence to indict anyone. I hope this doesn't happen, but it's indeed possible. Many federal investigations come up empty-handed.

I have a feeling tomorrow in Matt Cooper's CNN interview, he will be covering for Rove. It doesn't matter, Fitzgerald is out for blood and his target(s) is most likely someone in or connected to the White House. As far as we know, Rove is still a subject and not a target in this case as Fitzgerald has not speculated otherwise. Neither side knows for sure what is going to happen. Who knows who the real target(s) is?. It could be anyone from Bush on down to Ari Fleischer. It could even be found out that no one is at fault because everyone in DC knew that Wilson's wife was a CIA operative, ha!

I don't blame democrats one bit for wanting to get to the bottom of this and I know for a fact that if the roles were reversed, and Rove was a democrat, republicans would be just as aggressive, if more so, in pursuing this matter. This is to be taken seriously, it's an outright abuse of power and this current administration has had it's fill.

Please read this to learn more about Valerie PlameFormer CIA retirees: Can We Trust Our President?

I admit, I can't stand Karl Rove, I think he is a slimeball but that doesn't matter. As much as I would like to see him take the fall, it's foolish to get too wrapped up in the idea that he may be indicted for anything. No one knows all the evidence that has been shown to the grand jury, nor do we have knowlege of all the testimonies that have been made. No one can figure out who or what Fitzgerald is even aiming for. Whatever happens, I am confident that Fitzgerald is doing his best to make sure all his i's are dotted and all his t's are crossed.

It's going to be an interesting summer in D.C. with this going on as well as Supreme Court nominations. The media seems to be all over this story, and to Scott McClellen's chagrin the WH press corp. has finally woken up from their coma. If possible, I hope the media focuses on the facts and steers away from the spin that's incoming from both sides of the political spectrum. In other words, I hope they do their jobs!

[edit on 7/17/2005 by Lecky]


reply posted on 17-7-2005 @ 03:04 PM by Delta 38
Originally posted by djohnsto77
Clifford May from The National Review now says that in fact it was Joe Wilson through David Corn of the liberal rag The Nation who really leaked the confidential information concerning Plame:

www.nationalreview.com...


Ignoring the complete right wing bias of the National Review, this author is demonstrating a complete ignorance of how the CIA works as explained by a CIA Agent to Newsweek Columnist Jonathan Alter:



The frantic efforts of the GOP attack machine to change the subject to Wilson shows how scared Republicans are that the master of their universe will be held accountable for Rove's destructive carelessness.

To get an idea of how destructive, I talked to Melissa Mahle, a former CIA covert operative turned author whose career parallels Plame's. She explained what happens when someone's cover is blown. It isn't pretty, especially when, like Plame, you have been under "nonofficial cover" (working for a phony front company or nonprofit), which is more sensitive than "official cover" (pretending to work for another government agency). The GOP's spinners are making it seem that because Plame had a desk job in Langley at the time she was outed, she wasn't truly undercover. As Mahle says, that reflects a total ignorance about the way the CIA works. Being outed doesn't just waste millions of taxpayer dollars; it compromises hundreds of other people in the field you may have worked with in the past. - source



The GOP can try to spin this all day but Rove went to far in his efforts to hurt a critic of the Bush Administration, as Rove admitted to reporter Matt Cooper when he revealed to him that Plame was a CIA Agent, Rove "...said too much." Yes you did Mr. Rove and you risked national security in the process. - source
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