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POLITICS: China says "prepared to use Nukes against US"

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posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:18 AM

Last time I checked the World Bank didnt have any rifles or guns. So I cant see a scenario where we would require them to counter the World Bank if it protested.

Yeah but are bankers above using coercion in order to force a nation to comply? Can one nation just stiff another nation with 400 billion dollars or whatever in debt and say, "Sorry." Wouldn't there be violence as a result?

I'm asking because it seems like the change you are describing would have a price in blood to be paid as well. Yes, if Americans became massively unemployed, they might desire to return to the gold standard, but corporations would certainly resist a change like that, wouldn't they?

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 12:20 AM

Originally posted by Astronomer68

Originally posted by toolmaker

Allow me to retort;
The United States department of Treasury sells roughly 300 Billion in Tbills every year. These are Debt securities, which the american taxpayer must pay interest on. China Buys roughly 65% of these T bills every year, and recieves Billions of dollars in Interest payment on them Every month.
When you read about a 450 billion dollar deficit for the year, exactly where does the money come to make up that difference? From Tbills the treasury sells to finance the debt.

And a fine retort that was. However, you neglect to mention the interdependence of our two economies. If China were not buying T-Bills as they have been doing, then China would have to increase the value of their own currency. This would make Chinese goods more expensive around the world and drastically slow Chinese economic growth. In effect, China, to a large extent, is financing the U.S. defecit as a way of financing their own economic growth. The alternative; however, would be worse for China. A discontinuance of their current monetary policy would produce two primary results: (1) The dollar would decline rapidly in value to a point where it could be supported., and (2) The Yuan would increase sharply in value to it's true worldwide value.

Those two outcomes would drastically reduce the value of dollar investments held by China while drastically increasing the price of Chinese manufactured goods around the world. With the value of the dollar decreased by such an extent, U.S. manufactured goods would become more competitive around the world, thus erasing the current account deficits being maintained, but causing the U.S. economy to slide into recession and causing many other economies to almost totally collapse. The ability of countries to buy Chinese manufactured goods would be doubly hit and the Chinese economy would slow to a crawl, if not itself become recessionary.

I am not defending the Bush administrations economic policies for the simple reason that I think they are wrong. Eventually the U.S. must stop running deficits or run the risk of complete economic collapse. As an aside, WalMart would probably be the first casualty of a Chinese monetary policy change. But, make no mistake that China has the U.S. by the short hairs, if anything we are both locked into a mutually beneficial embrace at the moment.

I've run into one article which addresses the issue more or less objectively.

[edit on 16-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

To Toolmaker and Astronomer,

Thank you both (amongst others) for injecting some logic and sensible thinking into this discussion. Those of you who are talking about nukes...ARE YOU LIVING IN THE REAL WORLD. Some of the offhand comments made by contributors to this thread make me wonder if they actually appreciate the realities of causing death to possibly millions of people! Many people out there think Bush is mad...well he ain't half as mad as those of you who think dropping nuclear bombs on helpless civilians is as simple as flicking a switch.

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 02:56 AM
There can be no winner with nukes! Will mankind be brought to the verge of extinction before governments stop the insanity? Sadly, I believe so.

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 05:03 AM

Originally posted by Silent Professional
Both the US and China would need promise from Wal*Mart to go to War.

Silent Professional that may be more true than anyone would really like to know.

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 08:34 AM
China will not toss out the gains of their past economic decade on a nuclear exchange that would lay waste to their cities and infrastucture.
They are not however without 'hot-heads' who will sporadically make sabre-rattling statements such as have generated this thread.

The preponderance of nuclear weaponry is in the hands of the US, and North Korea aside, China is ringed with nations unfriendly to it's Southeastern Asian aims.

They require close monitoring at this point, not military action.

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:18 PM

Originally posted by periwinkle blue

The preponderance of nuclear weaponry is in the hands of the US, and North Korea aside, China is ringed with nations unfriendly to it's Southeastern Asian aims.

How helpful it would be if anyone outside the top Chinese leadership really knew what China's Southeastern Asian aims were, or for that matter any of their aims.

[edit on 17-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:25 PM
theirs always been tension going between the chinese and the americans not publiicly but its still been going on

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 03:50 PM
Agreed Eliott Reid. I think this tension stems from the U.S's. deep fear and loathing of Chinese communism. We've already had to fight them once in Korea and the results of that war are still haunting us today. I can still recall the end of that war and the U.S. assertion that should it ever happen again we would use nukes--not ICBM's & such mind you, but tactical nukes to nullify the Chinese numerical advantage.

[edit on 17-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

posted on Jul, 17 2005 @ 07:22 PM
He's bluffing it wont happen. And god forbid it did both countries would be suffer massive casulties. All over lil taiwan. I guess Nastradamus was right about WW3

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 08:24 PM
First of all,I declared that I am an Chinese,a citizen of the RPC.

“If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,” Zhu Chenghu, a major general in the People's Liberation Army, said at an official briefing.

Yes,he said.But he declared it is only his own viewpoint before the interview,not the government.Concerning the chief of staff of the USA claimed he was making a plan to attack the mainland China by air force recently,it is not suprised to hear some unpleasant argument.I think everyone is able to tell the difference between the opinion of a person
and a country.

From the point of view a foreigner, there were two two incident that have made significant influence on American society:
1. The Independent War during 1775 and 1782.
The people of the 13 states decided themselves to live together and get rid of the charge of the UK across the Atlantic,which was the strongest and richest Empire in the world. So,they fight for the freedom of people of the whole 13 states.
2. THe Civil War which broke in 1861 and lasted for 5 years.
The South wanted to seperate from the USA and found their own country. The Unit States forced the South violently to come bach .

So I think it is not difficult for all of us to deduce the following points reasonablly:
1. Since the people of mainland China and Taiwan as a integrated unite since several centuries ago,it is we Chinese people of 30 provinces,have the right determine how we live,but not the government of the USA,more than 8,000 km away accross the Pacific,as far as the distance from London to Washington.
2.China and Chinese people is willing to pay out whatever we have to championship the unification of our country,just as you Amerians did 140 years ago.

We have no clination to frighten the USA or the people living tin USA.In fact,we,mainland China and Twaiwan are trying to solve the problem of ourselves by our own means ,but the government of USA have being showing its power(including aircraft carriers and new types of minitype nukes) to prevent the procedure.
The USA have ten times nukes than China,and you Americans have 12 aircraft carriers,while mainland China has none. I am quite amazed why some of you screaming out "the frighten of China",and show you just distorted data and exaggerations.The only reasonable explain is that someone is raising orgies of hatred between the people of the two country and make a excuse of military operations.

We Chinese are as peaceful and friendly as you American when being treated equally,and as long-suffering as you American when facing abruption of our country and aggression from others,even the strongest power in the world.If the policy of the government of USA do not change much more peaceful and equal,if the pentagonal insist on prevent the unification of China , if the government of USA still do not admit and respect the lawful right of Chinese people, the war of unification of China may break one day,which is not according the interest of China and USA.

Ironically, I am sorry to have to figure out that,it is the government of USA ,but not the PRC,who invade the basic right of other people ,and be responsible to the war.

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 08:28 PM
Yes the chinese are peaceful people. Your government is peaceful. Yet a defector has told US officials that China wants to take out the US.

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 08:33 PM
corner, sounds reasonable to me. Thanks for bringing the other side of the argument to the discussion

Defectors are not really trustworthy. Their testimony is almost always impossible to corroborate. If it were able to be corroborated then their value as a defector would be gone. Therefore the tendency for those wishing to escape a less than ideal government (defectors) will lean towards fabrication of "evidence" and pandering to known weaknesses. i.e. fear of other countries gaining strength.

[edit on 19/7/05 by subz]

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 09:38 PM
Hello, corner: I have trouble believing that the people of China chose to become Communist; I think that rather it was forced upon you by those who think that they were born to rule others. In Iraq, it is not our intentions to force our way of life on the people of Iraq, but to force freedom on the dictators and tyrants, so that "the people" can choose the way they want to live. Americans have paid dearly, with both lives and blood, to bring an end to Hitler, which was Socialism and Marxism and, yes, Communism in other parts of the world. Socialism has never succeeded, and Communism has killed over 100 million people in the past 100 years.

Cuba... the "Peoples Paradise" has a shortage of fish; is that not strange considering it is an island? If a woman wants to bake cookies and sell them to those who happen to pass by, she is put in prison. In North Korea, peopl In some places are eating tree bark to survive. Of all of the worlds Communist, Socialist or Marxist countries, the only people who truly benefit are the "leaders", not the people.

Even now, in China, there are aspects of Capitolism that are taking place. Contrary to what many say, America is NOT a Democracy, but a Constitutional Representative Republic. It is an experiment that has shown that if people are free to act upon resources of all kinds, that their freedom can lead to many wonderful things. The "Evil Rich" as many are called, are those who create jobs, and invent and sell products that others around the world can use for themselves, or to sell to others. I've never had a poor person sign my paycheck.

We do have those who try to beat our system, and cheat others in many ways, so the system is not perfect... no way of life is. After all, it is still an experiment in progress. But is our freedom and liberty that has shown that it allows everyone to succeed of fail, depending on the choices they make in their life. Big government never works. Our Democratic party here has become a "European Socialist" party, and is an American party no more. They believe in big government. Their thoughts on every birth here as a burden to them, because it is another mouth to feed, whereas the Republicans believe every birth is another possible solution to the human condition. I am quite aware that you have a population problem, but it is mostly due to the size of the land mass you have available, and the religious beliefs of your people.

In the past 35 years, since abortion has become legal (though there is no law giving a woman the "right" to have an abortion), over 48 million children have been put to death. I can only wonder who among them, using the freedom we have, might have been another Einstein; who among them might have developed a cure for cancer, or AIDS, or other debilitating disease that would have helped people across the world.

While I agree with some of what you say, I still wonder why, after all America has done to try to help those who are oppressed, and to aid those who have had some tragic calamity befall them, by giving rather freely the money that Capitolism generates, and with the blood of our people, we are still viewed as "the bad guys". I wish you health and well being.

posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 09:44 PM
Actually, they wished China to become a Socialist and/or Communist Nation, it has yet to happen.

Like it or not, China is not a Communist Nation, never has been and never will be.

posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 03:00 AM
Hi,subz and zappafan1:
Thanks for your patience reading my essay and commenting on it,but not just
taunting without trying to comprehend what I said.Maybe we can not totally agreee
each other,but the precondition of this discussion is that we are equal ,haveing
right to express and preserve own opinion,no matter wherever come from,or have
different opinions.
In fact I am quite suprised zappanfan1 regard Communitist as the tyrant and evilness.
Maybe many of you have the same points,while the people of China do not. You say you can
not believe the people of China chose to become Communist.I have to answer you that,the
people of China did choose the Communist Party in 1940s,otherwise there is no reasonale
arguement which can explain that why the Kuomintang party,the ministerial party at that
time was defeated during the civil war in China during 1945 to 1949,and retreated to Taiwan,
even the army of Kuomingtang had not also much moreq uantities but also so much more advanced
weapons than the Cummunist Party,and was supported by the USA .(Do not tell me just no reason,
or because the Communist is evil
)And now,still,most people of the China believe the Party.
And the following I want to express my different view on the Communist.
My mother tongue and major is not English,I do not know what emotion of the west people
when they mention the word "Communist",even only the origin meaning of "Communist",taring
to 1848 when Karl Marx "invented" it.
I doubted when the Capitalism came forth,what the kings and noble thought about it?Maybe
most of the persons at that time can not agreed to the Capitalism either.We also can see the
horror in the French Revolution.I am not tried to prove that the Communist is better than
the Capital,or so on.I just expressed that,most chinese people do not regard the Communist
as evil and unhuman just as you ,and you can not say:"becaouse I think it is evil,so it in
fact is evil".Am i right?I think there may be some different meaning between you said "Communist
" and I .
In my private opinions,maybe the Chinese now choose the Communist,some sense following the
tradition of centralization.The world Communist have much communicate with centralization in
chinese people's opinions.It not means everthing is determined by the government,or the tyrant,
while you can see someone is often criticizing the system without being arrested only because
criticize.It also not means everthing is owned by the goverment,while I and my family have own
lawful properties,being protected by the law.And,the life did have becoming much better,says my
grandfather,borned in 1930s.

posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 07:08 AM

Originally posted by zappafan1
Hello, corner: I have trouble believing that the people of China chose to become Communist; I think that rather it was forced upon you by those who think that they were born to rule others.

I never chose capitalism either, does that mean I have an inate right to buck the system I was born into? I wish I did

Communism failed, largely in part, beacause of the Cold War arms race. A fledgling form of government required to spend vast amounts of money and resources on competing with an established and powerful polar opposite form of government. A government that was vehemently opposed to the choice of government popularly chosen in both Russia and China. They had no choice but to match the United States missile for missile, tank for tank, bomb for bomb or there was a high likelyhood America would attack (too prevent the dominoes falling dont ya'know).

And you might want to re-examine just how disinterested in "big government" the Republican party has become. Anyone can see that the Patriot Act, Department of Homeland Security and the other new security laws are completely Big Government and more akin to Big Brother. What you wrote USED to be true, now it totally is not.

Corner, like many things in our embattled free Western "democracies", I dont agree with everything China does but I respect their right to do so. What China does is China's business and no one elses (except human rights abuses but the United States is really not one to criticise there). China's form of government is for the Chinese to determine, not any one else.

[edit on 20/7/05 by subz]

posted on Jul, 21 2005 @ 02:40 AM
There was a essay a few hours ago,I do not know why it was deleted.Only because it said that the cause of the government of USA think
China tends to be too strong and rich to take the place of USA as the strongest country in the world.I hope it did not.

I partly agree the opinion,and the collision between China and USA,or between Russia and USA in the cold war,is some sense enkindled by the government of USA,who not want to have a opponent as strong as himself
and try to defeat his opponents before they grow up.You can see many cases of this policy not in politics but also in commcommerce.

saying "big government",frankly,the Chinese have much more favor on "big government" and centralization than the American,due to the differences of our history and economy.Considering China was unified
since the Qin Empire before A.D,and since then China was a country as
a whole .In compairism,the Europe,have nearly the same population and
area,is devided into many countries.You can imagine what a difference of
between the thinking mode between the peoples in East and West under
thousands of years different life mode.

I am coming back from my university to hometown,where is not convient to go to the Internet.(Not every city is as rich as Shanghai and Beijing,not
mentioning the countryside.) I maybe seldom come here in the coming month.Anyone who is interesting in continueing the subject canmail me,I think it will be a good idear.

posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 08:06 AM
say hello to everyone. im a regular chinese guy who was born in the main land china, grow up there and also got education there, a normal one, nobody. now i lives in EU, study here for maybe 2 or 3 years, after that i may get back to china, get a job, try make money for my food, my house and my car(if i could offer a brand new one).also pay tax and social insurance. find a girl, have kids, maybe. live as a normal chinese, just like that.

i have read all the post above, quite arduous for me, it really takes a lot of time to. but i do have a great interest to get to know what r u thinking about us and how. it was fun by reading all these posts, I would be appreciate. but these r still a few things make me puzzled, and also something surely incorrect or were misunderstood realized that most ppl. here do not really know about china. i don’t think most have been to china, however even u have been to there, there r still lot of things u never know , and some things u know but never understand. some thing u dident see and u saw but the fact is not what as u saw.i believe the analogous things also happens everywhere in your life, and i also believe most of u could make a reasonable judgement, and hold on the most extreme opinion, then the objective changed to something that u have absolutely no idea, but u trust your mind on the contrary?

in another hand, so many different sounds here, that's great! a gentle democratic ambience, only a few ppl. behave little bit rude, the condition of discussion makes me envy. i dont know if this is unusual, actually most chinese forum never in this kind of mood, by our county's development level. Every domain's professional forums r exceptions, of course.

about the topic, there r some points i'd like to tell about, let's see.

1)TaiWan is a part of chian, this sentence has much more meaning to chinese(not Chinese Communist)then anybody, include Americans. like i dont have competency to judge what the Statue of Liberty is. to u guys, taiwan is just a island , to me , the Statue of Liberty is just a statuary.

2)there's a pig and a sheep lives in a same building, one day, their lord came to the building to take the pig out for a while. and the pig went mad suddenly. the sheep think it scorn to the pig: u r such a dastard, what u so scared for? come on~~it's just a walk. and the pig was screaming: they taking u for just a hair cut , but a head cut for me!some time, one thing is unintelligible ridiculous, may not because ppl. who doing it r crazy, but u never fell.

3)to identify your enemy ,is not by hitting someone's face then watching if he fight back. china don not have any reason to nuke USA, at least in generally dont.

4)do u wanna a nuke war between 2 county? i dont, and i believe most ppl. in our counties dont. but i also belive ther r someone does. can you endure a nuke war cost? i dont. and i believe most of u dont. but there r still someone can. will u support a nuke war? for me , i dont know, not sure. in principle will not. same for u? vice versa. A lot of ppl. ascribed the probability of nuke war to if pres. Bush cowboy enough. But I thought collectivistic consciousness potentially effects a nation more when they doing the most big decision. In the war2nd,when that wheelchair gentleman from democratic party decide to nuke Kuraseba, I believe most American were shouting the same word as him: bomb those MFJPS!
So, the cowboys actually lives in every American ppl.‘s soul, no matter he is a real gentleman or real cowboy. It’s a part of nationality, just like there were dragons hiding in every chinese’s hart, notwithstanding how those ppl. looks sheepish or even doltish.

5)does china has enough capability to cosmically nuke USA ? i dont know. someone above gave an answer: No. but I even confused more: which one i should trust? a PLA general or some one from a american forum?

6)someone above make suggestions that American government should buy this general a ticket to America, and make him a tour to realize what a county is American. that's a good idea,but as i know ,this gen. had been to American many time, and even live there for a while for military academe exchanges. actually, this suggestions makes me remember the first time i been to GB. Back to 1995 when i got there the very first questions was like: where is your tail? and the better one is :have u ever saw a TV? it's difficult to say : i dont detest these kind of questions, even they ask by no keeping any spite, or same kind of sense of hummer.

7)someone mentioned the munitions business between USA and my point of view, its not a really such a honor thing. just like what american did in the WAR2's forepart, kinda opportunism, but good business. otherwise someone said taiwan buy the munitions is not for any attack intention, i have to say, counterattack and takeover the main land by US' support had been the core policy for the ROC. government for quite a long time. what you called defense or attack r just 2 words in relativity.

8)some ppl. 's concept about chinese Communist r base on movies, others r better: base on historical data or publications. im not try to say anything about ideology and politics, there r 2 many disputed. i just felt hard to take those many ridiculous notions and misunderstandings. i dont real like CCP, but CCP said keeps your sight following the times and environment. in this case they r right. :=/

9)Tibet, oh!#$%^!#@&$*^@$& Tibet......dalai lama is a great guy, i have read his book, and like him quite much, but he is not that great in tibat, not his fault, but still makes it's not my opinion, it says by my Tibetan friends, of course they r bond slave class's offspring or tibet commy. and the monks? real monk cares nothing, others wanna get back their patrician viscounty by politics or blood. they need someone be close to god, or let me say "Der Übermensch ist der Sinn der Erde。Euer Wille sage:der Übermensch Sei derSinn der Erde!" fortunately dalai lama is just the one who he is. that's all.

10)if connive china force taiwan, chinese will attack JP and KoR?
China dont have capability to attack JP or even KoR. we might have enough capability to attack taiwan, but that't not the point , the point is we have enough courage and reason to keep china's dominion, no matter what happened. most of the Yankees may have the same belief, and just like your reason could be the word on your moola: in god we trust. our reason also can be something others never understand.

11)about American debt. I was so surprised that some can tell the correct of signification of trade deficit but don’t know about Chinese own 80.9 billion American debt. In fact china is the second biggest creditor nation of US. After JP. But there’s nothing about machination or something, it’s just because the huge trade between 2 countries. Another reason is Chinese like saving money, but American prefer credit card.
and compare with the American economy size, it’s not a big deal at all. actually , most countries in this world own a lot your debt, it’s base on their trust to your economy. It’s like a gold reserve. Should be pride with. But to us there’s some matter contrary. For example American gov. pressure china to adjust RMB’s exchange rate higher. And the latest news is we did adjusted it yesterday. but the problem is meantime we r holding a lot of your debt and even more dollar. By we adjust the exchange rate, those us. exchange lost their value. It means Chinese have to pay the bill of your consumption. it’s not really fair. But also kinda law of market economy. Understood.

anyway, what i'm trying to say is , chinese r ppl. we r not millions of freaky reptiles which lives million miles away. most of us r just like most of u. there r differences, but not that many. basically, we r also human being.
by this logic, think what r we thinking is not a difficult problem. just in your way is enough.
by quote a dialogism from ,may let me make u a little bit considering,
Hath not a Jew eyes?
Hath not a Jew hands?
Organs, dimensions?
Senses, affections, passions?
Fed with the same food?
Hurt with the same weapons?
Hurt with the same weapons?
Subject to the same diseases?
Healed by the same means?
Warmed and cooled by the same
winter and summer as a Christian is?
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh?
If you poison us, do we not die?
And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?
If we are like you in the rest,
we will resemble you in that.
If a Jew wrong a Christian,
what is his humility? Revenge.
If a Christian wrong a Jew,
what should his sufferance be
by Christian example?
Why, revenge.
The villainy you teach me I will execute.
And it shall go hard
but I will better the instruction.

once Christian’s justice r the absoluteness, that no one doubt. 300years later when Jews killing by Nazi, lot of ppl. still stealthily approve of Hitler's order. now days, check what status jews have in America? so ,let me say what everyone trustful not equals truth.

at the end i apologize for my poor english, i could not express myself clearly enough, hope it wont makes u guys too many reading trouble. fortunately, it will be my first and also last post here, wont bother u any longer.

that's all. thx for your patience. ^^

posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 10:38 AM
Wine1893, there is no reason for you to go, or to stop making any more posts. Dialogue with you is exactly what a world aimed for global peace would need, an understanding of its people.

Some people give that knee-jerk reaction to situations that scare them and which they have no power to do anything about. That is THEIR opinion and on the flip-side, some people think they have the answers without even knowing what is involved.

The very idea that a nuclear exchange would take place between ANY two countries is rediculous because of the Mutually Assured Destruction scenario. No, far more likely is a rogue who obtained a nuke (end of cold war and nukes got sold/went missing) and used it in/from a place that in no way could be identified as coming from China/Russia/Iran/Syria/Turkey/Sudan in fact, insert every country on the planet there since yes, we Americans too have the CIA etc who are quite adept at destabilizing others who "don't fit"

There might be a nuke detonated somewhere upon Americans (either abroad or at home) the point of the one-sided exchange would be to take us off our high horses and deal us a fatal blow. It wouldn't take us out, but hurt us bad enough to make us think twice about who we decide we should "help" next.

Some of us I am sure are aware through all of China's history that you have wanted to be left alone, The Great Walll is proof enough of this. You obviously don't have anything to fear from me, and I too would like to see all people unite in a co-operative way of living together.
Unfortunately, I am not in power over any country and the ones who are might have their own agenda/aspirations.

Without having open communication what have we got?

Please stay and continue to add your comments anytime you want, we NEED to know the hearts and minds of a people we (some of us anyway) don't understand. This isn't like "know the enemy", but more like "lets be friends."

I do believe we can all get along and work things out, however, when that communication is gone, there is nothing left...

And I would also like to apologize for any "where's your tail" idiots that might be out there... I know every human needs to be treated with dignity and respect... truth be known, we all had a tail at some point and some people still do have one... they hold it along with their pitch fork.

Thank you for sharing your views with us, we can break down that barrier between us if we all follow a simple rule. Be respectful and you will be treated with respect in return.

[edit on 22-7-2005 by keybored]

posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 07:46 PM

Originally posted by netbound
I guess another way of looking at it would be it's Nature's way of re-establishing equilibrium by resolving the human overpopulation problem ...

PS: I was "half" joking, BTW. I hope it doesn't go this way ...

[edit on 7/15/2005 by netbound]

From: zappafan1: Overpopulation??? The entire population of the earth could be put inside of the borders of Texas, and every 4 people would have 1/4 acre. Not that it wuld ever happen, but it's a great example or how "overpopulatiion" is a Liberal/Marxist myth.

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