China is ready to use nuclear weapons if U.S. of A joins the fight.

If a chinese nuke came flying over to USA would it have "Made in china" stamped on the bottom

Im no hippie or anything im actually a ex British Armed Forces person however i say "No Nukes, No Nukes, No Nukes". Is this all we pay are goverments to do is play a big game of chess with warheads. This is the year 2005 we should be uniting to make the world a better place to live in ways of economy and enviromental issues. Who are these leaders who think they speak for the rest of us when they start threatining other countrys with nukes. I say "Grow up you wankers". And anyway Nuclear warheads are like so not in fashion there like a throwback from the 70s-80s
or something. Get rid of em all i say and fight like proper men.

I Just bought a pair of Dunlop greenflash which were big in the 70s and have now made a retro return. I hope its not the same with cold wars and stuff

Do you lot arguing on here not realise that if any group on this planet has more respect for little planet earth its ATSers as we scrutinise every unnatural thing on the face of the earth.

Whether you agree or argue about nukes is no real concern to me its childs play just like your goverments especially when you start with the "well we have thousands more nukes than you" You should be condoning the use of the vile weapons no matter who you are.

All i say is "PEACE"

Taiwan is just an excuse for US to contain China. They wouldn't mind selling out Taiwan if it were in their interest.

Why do we have to take Taiwan? The history link, the ethnic link, the culture link, or the ecnomy link between China and Taiwan? None of the above! It's about the geopolitics between China, Japan and US, and the unfortunate strategic position of Taiwan.

If it were not for Japan and US, China wouldn't endeavor to pursue a unification.

The priority of China is not to launch a war for expansion, but to become a developed country, which unfortunately means a country strong enough to shake the existing world order and the last thing the US would like to happen.

Just think about how much effort has China made to beg other countries to not recognise Taiwan, you understand how important an independent Taiwan is for US to constrain China.

If there must be a war between China and US, like Japan and German 60 years ago, then be it.

In terms of nuke attack, how many times have US generals threatened nuking China?

We won't launch a nuclear competition with US like what Soviet did, but we do need enough WMD that can guarantee the annihilation of the world to deter any superpower from threating an extermination of our race when we fight for our own interest.

thatswhy the US is now turning to India to act as a counterweight to this chinese bulge.. But I'm not too sure India's willing to play american cowboy in Asia..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
thatswhy the US is now turning to India to act as a counterweight to this chinese bulge.. But I'm not too sure India's willing to play american cowboy in Asia..

Even if they are, then what?

Has India ever fought a significant war in histroy?

Their experties is Fight by Nonviolence, havn't heard of anything else.

One question

qhat are the chances that China have a cobalt-60 , salted fusion bomb?

Originally posted by bitterweb

Has India ever fought a significant war in histroy?

Their experties is Fight by Nonviolence, havn't heard of anything else.

im sure they fought 3 wars with Pakistan. non-violence dont work against Pakistan.

Originally posted by deltaboy
im sure they fought 3 wars with Pakistan. non-violence dont work against Pakistan.

You could say they fought us too, which, violently or not, didn't work either.

Originally posted by chinawhite
i dont get what your trying to say

Okay, how about this ... I am judging that at present the Taiwainese Government on Taiwan is (per the Island) the legal and popular governing body- yes?

If this is the case, and the majority feel adverse to the incursion of Mainland China ... then I feel compelled to support such actions and sentiments based upon our (American) bid for independance. IMO the circumstances are similar in significant aspects ... with the notable difference that the land mass ratio is reversed.

LCKob

Originally posted by bitterweb
Taiwan is just an excuse for US to contain China. They wouldn't mind selling out Taiwan if it were in their interest.

>>>> I think that is a bit unfair ... while we Americans may not attribute the same level of protectiveness and consideration as we would for our states and territories ... (who does) .... we do have a vested interest in seeing the example of Taiwan survive and flourish ... as a reminder of our similar plight with the British Empire some centuries ago ..>>>> hmmmm ... speculation here .... but if it were not for the West, communism would have spread much more pervasively and therefore become the defacto ideology without significant opposition.

... and Taiwan would have been a very different place than it is today (perhaps with no need for functional unification)

I, too, agree that Taiwan is mainly about geopolitics between China vs. US. It used to be a civil war between CCP and KMT but times have changed and now the conflict is about different things. China wants to rise and become #1 and the US would not allow that, so it would use whatever opportunities it can to contain China.

Of course, a commoner in the US might disagree and claim it's for the interests of the Taiwanese people, but I don't care what a commoner thinks. I care about what the US government thinks since they are the ones playing geopolitics with the Chinese government and also influencing the media which in turn influences the opinion of many commoners. So how does the US government, with a geopolitical view, see Taiwan? A strategic location to put its rival at a disadvantage. When politicians do good things for another country, it's because they want them to become another ally to help them face their rivals, not because they actually care.

In the case of the CCP, it should be obvious. If Taiwan becomes independent, it would become another puppet of the US like Japan, another forward base for the US to launch its influence and military in the SE Asia region. And that the CCP cannot allow. Not just that but it would be a good opportunity lost if they could not get Taiwan to hop on to their bandwagon as the two had very strong connections, (ethnical, cultural, financial, etc.)

[edit on 20-7-2005 by Taishyou]

According to the latest DoD report to Congress on China's military capabilities, a possible impediment to Chinese conflict over Taiwan is the fact that sizeable portions of both sides' populace don't actually want to go to war, as they're perfectly happy with the beneficial trade relationships they have with each other as it is.

-koji K.

Originally posted by Taishyou
I, too, agree that Taiwan is mainly about geopolitics between China vs. US. It used to be a civil war between CCP and KMT but times have changed and now the conflict is about different things. China wants to rise and become #1 and the US would not allow that, so it would use whatever opportunities it can to contain China.

Of course, a commoner in the US might disagree and claim it's for the interests of the Taiwanese people, but I don't care what a commoner thinks. I care about what the US government thinks since they are the ones playing geopolitics with the Chinese government and also influencing the media which in turn influences the opinion of many commoners. So how does the US government, with a geopolitical view, see Taiwan? A strategic location to put its rival at a disadvantage. When politicians do good things for another country, it's because they want them to become another ally to help them face their rivals, not because they actually care.

[edit on 20-7-2005 by Taishyou]

Haha ... commoner ... so where do you live and what century??

We Americans don't have a governing system based upon a landed upperclass ... we Americans dislike the very concept of ruling "nobility".

... in other words ... America does not have Commoners and Nobles ... the term citizen probably would be more accurate.

Secondly, you seem to forget that we Americans follow a Republican system ... which ... gives the collective voter base quite a bit of say in issues of governance by consensus choice of the elect.




[edit on 20-7-2005 by LCKob]

Sorry about the bad choice of volcabulary. By commoner I meant normal citizen, people not part of the government. And by the government I mean the current right wing Republicans. The Democrats may view the situation a different way.

[edit on 21-7-2005 by Taishyou]

LCKOB:

Actually it is more like a ruleing party, but without direct access. I know the appearance is such that you live in a demoracy, and that your vioce carries some weight, but very clearly it doesn't. Lobby groups carry more political weight than any normal person or group of people - and because of that one simple truth, the system we have today in the west is just as inheirently elitist and master-slave dynamic as any king and country, or communist style system.

The trick is in the west we just aren't as open about it. But it is still there, just under nicer clothes.

If the US meddles in Taiwan issue by sending troops, they will have everything to lose - economy, influences, military advantages, security, and little to gain. That might be the beginning of a fall-down.

The US has the biggest number of enemies in the world, while China has only one - the US (On the condition that the US is stupid enough to defend Taiwan).

The USA is using Taiwan to contain China, while China is also using TTaiwan to trap the US.

Japan is an x-factor to both side.

When the first blood is drawn, the US will quickly find all its enemies (especially the arab terrorists) owning Nukes. By fighting the US, China is likely to lose many friends, but unlikely to make new enemies (again Japan is a X-factor).

I know most americans don't like Chinese very much. Look at the postings at ATS, you can tell how ill informed they are. I used to agree with western opinions that China is full of propoganda., but after I checked the western media, I learned where the worst propoganda is.

The cause of the distrust between the US and China is profound. Most Chinese are pretty successful in understanding American way of thinking and can bend themselves, but the Americans are blinded by their past glories and successes. They would not even try to understand China, citing ChinCom as the obstacle. But do they know the 90% of the ChinComs are their capitalist cousins in essence. It's more than ideology things, it's also about culture and civilization. The US has never tried to live in peace with any non-Christian civilizations and is likely remain so. That may explain why the US don't trust China and don't treat China as equal.

Taiwan is only 100 miles from China and can't walk away. The war with CHina over taiwan is deemed to lose, in the long-run. It could last three hours, three weeks, or three hundred year. But Chinese will eventually claim Taiwan. I don't know how many American contrubutors in this forum have been to China. How many of them know about the true picture of China's economy and military strength. I am surprised to learn so many of them actually believe in their NMD (Bullets hitting bullets), and China has only 50 Nuke bombs to launch. Here is an interesting comparison: The US always advertizing its latest tech advancement, while China always hide them - culture difference might explain.

Puri

Originally posted by puri
I know most americans don't like Chinese very much. Look at the postings at ATS, you can tell how ill informed they are. I used to agree with western opinions that China is full of propoganda., but after I checked the western media, I learned where the worst propoganda is.

The cause of the distrust between the US and China is profound. Most Chinese are pretty successful in understanding American way of thinking and can bend themselves, but the Americans are blinded by their past glories and successes. They would not even try to understand China, citing ChinCom as the obstacle. But do they know the 90% of the ChinComs are their capitalist cousins in essence. It's more than ideology things, it's also about culture and civilization. The US has never tried to live in peace with any non-Christian civilizations and is likely remain so. That may explain why the US don't trust China and don't treat China as equal.

Taiwan is only 100 miles from China and can't walk away. The war with CHina over taiwan is deemed to lose, in the long-run. It could last three hours, three weeks, or three hundred year. But Chinese will eventually claim Taiwan. I don't know how many American contrubutors in this forum have been to China. How many of them know about the true picture of China's economy and military strength. I am surprised to learn so many of them actually believe in their NMD (Bullets hitting bullets), and China has only 50 Nuke bombs to launch. Here is an interesting comparison: The US always advertizing its latest tech advancement, while China always hide them - culture difference might explain.

Puri

That pretty much sums up the U.S.-China situation. Great post.

If you want my opinion, tho, I feel as if any hostility between China and the U.S. will not come from Taiwan. I think you, Puri, highlighted the source of the hostility: ideology, culture, and civilization. Back in World War II, we were faced with the worst of the worst: a terrifying ideology charged with a frightening monolith of seemingly infinite power, Nazi Germany. Humanity doesn't get worse than that. We faced what I believe is the most UNDERRATED threat of our times, and we prevailed. That was the worst imaginable, and we won. Then came the Cold War, which I like to consider a very complicated difference of opinion. In many ways, I considered it a very even ideological match-up, one where both sides simply didn't care as long as the other party didn't exist.

Flash forward to the present, and we have an entirely new problem: us. I think what we see in China that scares us so much is... ourselves. In China, we see the kind of prosperity and relative peace (compared to the rest of the world) that America has achieved. But it's also something that cannot fit on one planet. So it's actually not much about ideology, it's more about keeping what we have and not letting anyone else have it, and if they want it, it has to be on our terms.

However, the ideology, culture, and civilization comes in just their. It has to be OUR ideology, culture, and civilization, and it has to be us, not them. So it's more of a matter of pride. Whenever you face an equal, or yourself, it's about the feeling, more than the being. It doesn't seem to make much sense, but it's human nature. And when we go to war with China, if ever, it's going to be because we can't stand our own selves getting away from us.

In many ways, I feel a strange sense of pride living in times like these, with a "threat" like China on the horizon. It really puts things into perspective for you, and it makes you think about everything, your life, your style, your way of thought, even what's "out there," why are we here, and why are we trying so hard to hang onto what is otherwise a very insignificant place in the universe. For all we know, the "show" maybe elsewhere.

Originally posted by NWguy83
The U.S should be more worried about rogue ultra-communist Chinese Generals launching ballistic missiles at the U.S than Islamic terrorists launching ballistic missiles at America.

I couldn't disagree more.

If some terrorist group uses a ship to launch there nuke or smuggles it into the US through shipping containers of the (far to weak) borders and have it go off in some city, the US wont be able to do a quick strike back...because its not like we can look at a map and find the Country called "Terror'R'us" and bomb them to hell. But if China launches them we will know they did, and we can bomb them right back. Thats why terrorist are (in a way) more dangerous, because they have no terrorist country or government of there own.

www.iht.com.../articles/2005/04/07/news/china.html

The US could destroy China with it's nukes, and vice versa, yes they both have CENSORED. But what the CENSOREDis the point of destroying each other? Grow the CENSOREDup.



[edit on 2/8/2005 by SwearBear]

[edit on 7-8-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

www.sinodefence.com...

Pretty accurate I would say and their reorganization of the PLA will definatly allow them to out fight the US Army in a coventional fight esp. with the new Type-98 MBT with its laser anti missile defence. I'ld say in 10 years the USA will be a little frantic in a neck and neck competition with China in 20-30 years the PRC will have ecplised the USA.