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India's Akash air defence system : The Indian Patriot

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posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Then its not based on the SA-6..
.

Because it doesn't say copy doesn't mean it isn't

You can clearly see both missles are nearly indentical.

I wouldn't be surprised if the dimensions were the same




posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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Yes.

Clearly.




posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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Hey rajkhalsa

A few international sites i have come accross have called the Akash as "SA-6 being manufactured in India"

Now from what they say they sound pretty similar. But thats not what i am posting about

Could you (or anyone) provide us with specs of the 2 missiles, so as we can draw a direct comparison between the two.

Thanks in advance



posted on Oct, 11 2005 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
Because it doesn't say copy doesn't mean it isn't

You can clearly see both missles are nearly indentical.


Oh Boy! after vehemently argueing that India's LCA is a copy of the Mirage-2000, the oracle now calims that the Akash is an SA-6 copy


The Akash and the SA-6 have the same paint scheme, both are mounted on the same BMP-1, both are surface to air missiles and India have SA-6's - sounds ironical dose'nt it ?

Well the SA-6 is vintage 1950's tech that was made to shoot down low manuverable airplanes, with no anti-missile role whatsoever. India bought SA-6's several decades back and now they are very outdated and useless the they are being replaced by the Akash. Pray you tell me why India would want to replace the outdated SA-6 with another copy of it ?

If India really wanted to copy missiles - why do you suppose did they copy the vintage SA-6, and not the S-300 PMU-2 which India is alredy in posession of (bought in ~2000) ?

Why would India reject the PAC-3, S-400, Arrow-2 etc that were offered with tech transfer to India by their respective makers and use the a 1950's SA-6 copy instead ?

Pray you tell me what anti-missile features the SA-6 has ?

The Akash is better than the SA-6 in all aspects by several times. Do you apparently have any clue of the Akash's performance with relation to the SA-6 ?

Since you asked for dimensions the Akash is 0.2 m shorter than the SA-6 and carries 101kg's of payload than the SA-6. The Aksah can reach upto 25 km as aginst the SA-6's 14 km. The Akash's accelration and deployment time simply smokes the SA-6 to bits.

Now in this paint scheme the Akash looks more like the Aster. I am still waiting for someone to say its an Aster copy ?




[edit on 11-10-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 01:52 AM
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hey stealthspy

could you post some specs on both the sustems so that we can get this argument done with once and for all. i asked rajkhalsa, but he always seems like a busy man and pops up just once in a while.

thanks in advance



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 02:48 AM
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According to an Indian military official, the Akash missile is based on the Russian SA-6 air defense missile and it could be modified to intercept short-range missiles such as Pakistan’s Hatf-1. The Akash missile is also expected to be integrated with the Russian S-300V anti-missile system. Originally, the Akash missile was scheduled to begin user trials in 2003. However, the imposition of US sanctions following the nuclear tests in May 1998 delayed the project since critical technologies such as guidance systems became available only after the removed the sanctions in 2001.


—“Akash Successfully Test Fired,” Press Trust of India, 2 June 2003, Nationwide International News; in Lexis-Nexis Academic Universe, 2 June 2003, ; Bulbul Singh, “India’s Akash Missile Nearing User Trials,” Aerospace Daily, 3 June 2003, Vol. 206, No. 45, News, p. 6; in Lexis-Nexis Academic Universe, 6 June 2003, .

www.nti.org...


The Indiak Akash is a modern missile system based heavily on the SA-6 missile but with a new phased-array radar, different vehicles and other improvments.

en.wikipedia.org...

This one is under the Sa-6 missile section


The missile is based heavily on the SA-6 and is claimed that Rajendra is similar to the 30N6 Flap-Lid B engagement radar, used by the S-300 ATBM system.

www.bharat-rakshak.com...


Why would India reject the PAC-3, S-400, Arrow-2 etc that were offered with tech transfer to India by their respective makers and use the a 1950's SA-6 copy instead ?


Because the akash is to take over the role of SA-6s in indian service.



posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 01:13 AM
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I know the aksah is not a copy but it is indeed based on the SA-6. That cant be debated.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 05:13 PM
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i dont see how it can be better than the patriot sure its more mobile but still based on the Sa 6 sure its better but its rader is a copy of the S 300 and remeber the aptriot has a better range which will be over 190 miles thanks to the missile upgrade and plus the patriot will be replaced by meads amking it more transportable

missile upgradewww.lockheedmartin.com...

orignal missile range www.lockheedmartin.com... if its not inthere just to tel you its 125 miles

meads www.lockheedmartin.com...

meads radar www.lockheedmartin.com...

and the best interceptor of all THAAD www.lockheedmartin.com...
www.army-technology.com... radar info also in this one



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by urmomma158
i dont see how it can be better than the patriot sure its more mobile but still based on the Sa 6 sure its better but its rader is a copy of the S 300 and remeber the aptriot has a better range which will be over 190 miles thanks to the missile upgrade and plus the patriot will be replaced by meads amking it more transportable

missile upgrade www.lockheedmartin.com...

orignal missile range www.lockheedmartin.com... if its not inthere just to tel you its 125 miles

meads www.lockheedmartin.com...

meads radar www.lockheedmartin.com...

and the best interceptor of all THAAD www.lockheedmartin.com...
www.army-technology.com... radar info also in this one






the first link wasnt working here is the corrected one in my quote



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Citing an announcement by defense officials at a press conference, India’s The Statesman reports that India could establish an air and missile defense shield for a 200 square kilometer area within five or six years, quoting defense scientists said. Such a system could reportedly be duplicated to protect “big cities and strategic facilities like nuclear reactors and space launching sites against incoming missiles.” The interceptor is said to be a surface-to-air missile with a range of 80-85 km, and another interceptor with a range of about 20 km. The Akash SAM is mentioned as a possible interceptor for such a system; “Meanwhile, the Akash will have some anti-missile system capabilities.”

As for the radars for such a system, Mr M. Natarajan, DRDO chief and scientific advisor to the defense minister, said they might include a phased-array radar placed on an executive jet, such as the Brazilian Embrear. India has already purchased from Israel the Phalcon aircraft-mounted radar system

link

India not impressed with the PAC-3 that it was offered

India is not impressed with the PAC-3 missile unit offered with the two-tier US anti-missile defence system, on the grounds that it is slow for the very low reaction period in the sub-continent, and therefore, the Pentagon will demonstrate more advanced technologies when defence minister Pranab Mukherjee visits the country.

Besides more advanced units than PAC-3, the US is offering mid-air jamming systems


link


India to outpace the rest of Asia in development and deployment of missiles and missile shields

India plans to outpace Asia and may be rest of the world in missile research and missile shield development and deployment. According to media sources in India, India will invest about Rs. 12,000 crore in the next eight years to produce world-class missiles. According to Prahlada, Director, Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), besides this investment, which will go to industry, another Rs. 1000, crore will be spent on maintaining the missiles and upgrading their technology.

India’s strategic interest is in having a defense alliance with United States to protect India with a missile defense umbrella or shield. The strategic missile defense is considered by Indian defense establishments are most critical. The recent US-India ten-year defense alliance will help India to achieve its goal. India and the United States will sign an Overall Umbrella agreement on Science and Technology during the forthcoming US visit of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. This will further enhance the possibilities of achieving the Indian goals.

link

India rules out accepting US missile defence system


India on Tuesday ruled out accepting a missile defence system from the United States.
"There is no question of accepting (a) missile shield from anyone," Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee told a news conference in reply to a question.

"What we are interested in is developing our own missile programme and we are doing that."

The United States said last June that it was willing to talk to India about supplying missile defence systems.

"We are willing to talk to India about missile defence. Missile defence is very expensive. So it is not something that India will enter into lightly," US assistant secretary of state for arms control, Stephen Rademaker, had told reporters on a visit to New Delhi.

India and the United States last week signed a groundbreaking 10-year plan for military cooperation during a visit to Washington by Mukherjee.

India, a Cold War ally of the Soviet Union, has recently moved closer to the United States.


link


India pursuing manipulation of ionosphere to fry electronics of incoming warheads

India’s Missile experts realized very well that Ballistic missiles are useless since most countries can manipulate the ionosphere to destroy the missile.........focused on frying all the electronics of any incoming ballistic missile that leave the earth’s atmosphere and then reenter the same on the other side of the world.........use electromagnetic waves, laser and low frequency arrays to create billions of watts on of energy in the ionosphere to fry all the electronics of an incoming missile.


link

India's Phalcon system to “Neutralize” Pakistani Missiles

Israel’s Phalcon system, previously sold to India, is capable of “neutralizing” Pakistan’s Shaheen II ballisic missile, according to a news report, which came just after Pakistan’s test of the Shaheen II on March 16.


link

US mum on THAAD

There was no word on whether the Israeli-American Arrow THAAD missile defense system, which India has previously sought, would also be approved, though Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee did express India's position that all technology restrictions should be dropped.

link

All that the US said on the request for the THAAD

We are willing to talk to India about missile defence. Missile defence is very expensive. So, it is not something that India will enter into lightly," visiting US assistant secretary of state for arms control, Stephen Rademaker, told reporters.

link

BTW : All these developments have alredy been covered in my other thread :
US offers Patriot(PAC-3) missiles to India
Go check it out right away.

[edit on 14-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]


dont u noe that is not annually its over the next 8 years and 12000 crore is 26 billionn Us dollars its going to be made with US help and they have a long way to go were plannignto spend 13 billion a year not over 8 years and we aremcuh more advanced in missile defense www.govexec.com...

now read the link 13 billion ayear and go to 19 billion a year



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 05:07 PM
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Stealth Spy,

>>
India's indegenous Akash air defence system is the reason India have rejected the US offer of the PAC-3, Israel's offer of the Arrow-2, Russia's offer of the latest S-300 and S-400 and the European MBDA offer of the Aster 30 air defence systems.
>>

Ah yes, the Indians, known the world over for nationalism as an excuse for /cheapness/. A real first in the arms industry, but will it be catching?

>>
The Akash (Sanskrit for Sky) is a medium-range, theatre defence, surface to air missile.
>>

With a max range of 25km in your broadhead? Bwuahahahahhahahhahah!

I dun got sum swampland in Florida jus' fer U!


>>
It operates in conjunction with the indegenous Rajendra surveillance & engagement radar. This system will replace the SA-6 / Straight Flush in Indian service and will provide air defence system to counter SRBM / IRBM threats in addition to airplane threats along the Pakistani and Chinese borders.
>>

With an interceptor speed of Mach 2.8-3.5 (exactly that of the Kub?)....S'n-word'.

Boy did you get ripped.

>>
The Akash uses state of the art integral ramjet rocket propulsion system to give a low-volume, low-weight (700 kg launch weight) missile configuration, and has a low reaction time - from detection to missile launch - of 15 seconds allowing the missile to carry a heavier 60 kg fragmentation warhead triggered by proximity fuse.

It reaches a speed of Mach 1.5 in 4.5 seconds, Mach. 2.8-3.5 at 20g in 30 seconds after ramjet motor is ignited. Its range (for most effective performance) varies 27-30 kilometres.
>>

And Mach 5-7 'rocket only' weapons are good for 60+km in a direct shot and upwards of 300km in a loft. Riiiiight.

>>
The 5.6 m long sleek missile has a launch weight of 700 kg and can carry 60 kg of warhead and the radar is capable of tracking 64 targets and guide upto 12 missiles simultaneously in a fully autonomous mode of operation.
>>

You've got a SAR weapon with a probably LOS/power limited illuminator source trying to track targets over a battery AOR of less than 30nm across. And you are /proud/ that you get to waste up to three missiles per target 'to be sure'?

Ahahahahahh! Oh my sides!

>>
The Akash is to bepurchased by the Indian air defence command and is for sale to customers abroad.

Having successfully tested it more than 45 times, the DRDO is confident that Akash will be effective against low-flying missiles, aircraft and unmanned aerial vehicles.
>>

Pffft. Can you SEE them? If you don't have a Clam Shell or an ACP type (Mountaintop/JLENS) option, who cares what you /think/ you'd like to be able to do with it.

>>
Unlike the Patriot, Akash can be launched from static or mobile platforms, including a battle tank.
>>

Gasssssp. No, really? So let's see h'yar. Rather than invest maybe 20 million dollars into putting a capable weapon on a new /truck or tank/ chassis. You invest what, a couple HUNDRED million 'developing' a dated weapons system so you can set it atop 'modified BMP-1' chassis?

Ohhh, ohhhhohohoh. I think I may have broke a rib.

>>
What makes it superior to Patriot, apart from the mobility of its platform, is that it has thrust during the entire course of its 35-second flight. Patriot has thrust only for 12 seconds, after which the missile coasts, thus making it less accurate than Akash.
>>

Yeah right. Lets see you play with a ca. Mach 10 to 12 _IRBM_ (2,500km the physics are undeniable) that is pure-exo for about half the trip with a weapon that cannot even /touch it/ until it's on it's way down to the friendly target footprint.

Ooops, I missed. MUSHROOM!

ERINT goes with THAAD goes with ABL. As a total system _layered_ approach.

And you threw away your S-300V/Arrow alternative.

All's you're really saying here is that India has so many damn bodies that you can't afford to feed properly that you find it cheaper to soak a few cities with attrition so that you have an excuse to Agnify Pakistan from North to South. Removing your pissant neighbor from the pages of your future 'historical consideration' altogether.

Good on'ya I say! Armageddon should be simple and cheap. Like those who plan for it.

But it should also be sincere. So that MAD is apparent to your people as a false god construct of truly Shivan proportions. Rather than something they can avoid with a mere Kub-clone.

>>
One Akash battery is composed of three tracked vehicles (tracks, like those on a battle tank), each of which would have four missiles, plus a vehicle carrying the Rajendra multifunction phased array radar. The Air Force version is on wheeled vehicles.

The missile can be deployed either in autonomous mode or group mode. In the autonomous mode, it will have a single battery functioning independently. For surveillance, it would need an additional two-dimensional radar. In this mode, it can be used for defending moving columns or singular installations. A single battery can simultaneously engage four targets, and against each target a maximum of three missiles can be fired, thus increasing the hit probability.
>>

So tell me, does this 'triple threat' have an IR option like the Kub did? Or am I honestly supposed to believe that 'all is good and Gainful' when a HARM can fly out 70nm and an ARMAT at least half that distance?

Christ, you people are /so far/ behind the SOA on killing airborne objects that it makes me wonder why every tech support guru I speak to sounds like he just got off the boat from Bombay.

Oh wait, the smart ones're here. You're there. Ahhhhhhhhh.

>>
In group mode, there would be a number of batteries, deployed over a wide area. The batteries would be linked to a group control centre (GCC). The Rajendra three-dimensional radar, indegenously developed by the DRDO (defence Research & Development Organisation) would provide a single integrated air picture to the group control centre, telling it not only the distance at which the enemy plane has been located but also its altitude. One GCC can command and control a maximum of eight Akash batteries at the same time. One GCC can also receive radar surveillance information from other sources, and be linked to higher echelons of air defence. Once the target, either an enemy aircraft or a missile, is detected the missile would align to the radar beams and virtually travel on those beams (guided by onboard precision-homing system) towards the target at three-and-a-half times the speed of sound.
>>

Yawn. MASINT. Big frickin' signature footprint spread across ten different spectrums of physical and EOB deployment.

Send in the clowns.

>>
The DRDO is reportedly toying with the idea of developing an integrated missile shield, which would be able to cover an area of at least 200 sq. km in the next five to six years. Akash, or the technologies developed for Akash, would be at the heart of the system. Its radars could be placed on a civil aircraft, much like an AWACS system, to provide early warning of incoming missiles.Current development include a possible increase in speed, maximum altitude and range.
>>

Would this be the 'AWACS on HS.548' that you /crashed/? Oh my, talk about the midget wearing a truck tire as a hat...

>>
The Akash, at 0.26 million $, is cheaper than Patriot, and with Bharat Dynamics willing to manufacture it, there should not be a problem of service support, something which the Americans, given their history of imposing sanctions, may not be able to guarantee.
>>

Yeah right. Death is cheap. Or your next one's free!

>>
The DRDO is hopeful of orders of at least 1,350 missiles from the Army and another 3,000 from the Air Force.
India has declared a no-first-use of nuclear weapons policy, which means in the event of a nuclear attack, we have to defend ourselves from a first attack before retaliating...and the Akash ensures it. Bordored by two nuclear nations and one an Islamic one that nevers to threaten India with its nuclear weapons, the Akash provides the vital upgrade to India's otherwise mediocre missile defence capabilities

>>

I suppose, at the flung-rock alternative level.

Of course, to an ignoramian SOB like myself, it seems that this is just hard-to-get CT showing how 'independent' you are so that you can drive a hard bargain now that you are officially acknowledged to be a 'responsible' card carrying nuclear nutcase like the rest of us.

Of course that in turn just goes to show how desperate we all are, economically. That we would risk STD's to let our technology sleep with a painted lady whose cold feet have already been warmed in so many other's beds.

The reality still being that nobody gives a flying Kvadrat what you and Pakistan do /to each other/ OR what you think is 'important', nationally.

Because you're both on the ass end of the planet without half the high tech/electronic production capacity (or industrial need for same) as Malaysia 'just across the way'.

But your willingness to believe in a city state nuclear policy backed by flying monkey levels of ABMD will most likely lead to a braggarts exchange by your fellow numbnut 'least fringe elements as centrist regime' mob driven political body such as will poison half a timezone with the fallout.

Stop breeding like rats. Start developing the paired wastelands you live in so that a combination of greening the desert and educating the moronic masses shows you care about a new landscape called continuity as much as the politics of a moment labeled military-industrialist greed.

Do all this and maybe you'll make it to a point where you deserve to have 'sophisticated air defenses'.

About the time you realize you no longer want to waste money on Westernized War Mongering when 'after all' you are sworn to no-first-use.

But then again, knowing the region. I doubt it.


KPl.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 05:55 PM
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lol youreally know how to shake up people who beleive in foolish weapons ch1466 nice one
besides the rajebdra radr isnt anything compared to the THAAD radar or the MEADS radar and it will nver be the S 400



missile upgrade www.lockheedmartin.com...

orignal missile range www.lockheedmartin.com... if its not inthere just to tel you its 125 miles

meads www.lockheedmartin.com...

meads radar www.lockheedmartin.com...

and the best interceptor of all THAAD www.lockheedmartin.com...
www.army-technology.com... radar info also in this one



check out he AEGIS leap sysytem and ground based midcoursewww.ucsusa.org...

who cares about thrust the patriot, S 400, Aegis leap, kill vehicles,MEADS and THAAD are beeter and have higher altiudes and ranges like ch1466 said deathw ill come cheap and dont forget its not phasing out indias S 300 just supplementing it



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by ch1466

Ah yes, the Indians, known the world over for nationalism as an excuse for /cheapness/. A real first in the arms industry, but will it be catching?


KPl.



Maybe you should take that back and restrict your observations to people you intend to reply to?
Or is time to resort to some old fashioned 'yankee-bashing'..?



Granted that certain sections of the Indian Media have known to be overtly over-nationalistic at times and SS is known to be so on ATS; but aren't most media sources like that?
Or do we have talk about Fox News et all..


Like I said:
Lets not pass judgement on all w/o knowing all..



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 09:02 AM
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Daedalus3,

>>
Maybe you should take that back and restrict your observations to people you intend to reply to?
Or is time to resort to some old fashioned 'yankee-bashing'..?

>>

I don't watch Fox (BBS and CNN man) and I am utterly disgusted by the actions of my nation in the ME and elsewhere. I have been for the better part of a decade.

Bash away.

>>
Granted that certain sections of the Indian Media have known to be overtly over-nationalistic at times and SS is known to be so on ATS; but aren't most media sources like that?
Or do we have talk about Fox News et all..

>>

Mohandas K. Gandhi would be _terribly_ disappointed in his people at this moment.

Not because they do what they must to secure their future-

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

But because they /do more than they need to/ while ignoring their own troubles.

What flat out /pisses me off/ is the notion that we seem to be creating a 'survivable exchange scenario' which once upon a time we wisely _forbade ourselves_.

And the only justification for this is that 'those poor sub continenters, way too emotionally unstable don'tcha know. Sigh, I guess we'd better make sure they don't hurt themselves by bankrupting their economy to buy a few more silver bullets' as an excuse to further escalate the /unknowably complex/ scenario modifiers inherent to 'nuclear defenses'.

WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Nukes prevent aggression so long as all sides understand the notion of MAD as a commonly vested insurance policy which NONE can afford to take indemnity against.

S-300/400, ASTER, ERINT/THAAD. _All_ of these systems create 'friction' by which it becomes a matter of seeing if you can 'get around the defenses'.

And that is _bad all 'round_.

The notion that India is going it alone (again, IMO, only to sweeten the bids of international bids) doesn't make it 'better'. Because even given the Akash is a POS, _why waste the money_ when India has so very many /other problems/ whose pressure might trigger a safety valve psychology to look outside her borders for a solution?

>>
Like I said: Lets not pass judgement on all w/o knowing all..
>>

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong."

India could level Pakistan a dozen times over. China will never come 'over the mountain' when what they want is litoral dominance through Malaysia and the Straits of Malacca as a Dragon Empire reborn.

"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will."

India has the inherent _will_ (as an opportunity to choose) to forgive all in making Kashmir a semi-autonomous republic as it once was. WE (the UN) have the means necessary to make sure it is a law abiding one. Any other excuse to prepare-to-butcher is utter hormonal nonsense.

CONCLUSION:
This world should be moving away from nationalism and 'experimental' proliferation of advanced weapons systems into uncertain power-block alliances of commercial convenience. Or as a function of self-generated destabilization through unnecesarry 'home field advantage' that is anything but defensive.

WWI happened that way and from that 'Great War' the entire 20th century was RUINED.

Why does India need Akash when she has six batteries of S-300PMU1 and /has had/ since about 1995-96?

Such a quantity should more than secure her nuclear and BMC2 facilities from 'surprise' attack by Pak SLBM or Cruise which is about the ONLY way they could get in with regular force assets.

Those forces and command structure in turn hostage the entirety of Pakistan to civilized behavior.

To do anything more sounds like the tools of a tactical umbrella meant to defend forces 'on the move'. As indeed Kub once did over the Sinai.

Which, again, cannot be a good thing because the Paks have yet to win a war with the Indians and they are terribly insecure about that.

The only sure thing is that if those two ever cook off in their combined hubris against life itself, the radioactive uplift will have the potential to poison half of Western Asia and most of the PacRim.

We should be /decanting/ the pressure bubble on an Indian arms race. Not shaking the genie's bottle further.

Morons.


KPl.



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 01:09 PM
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well said the indians always overhype themselves military and they are highly biased and arrogant not to forget haf of the popuation is illliterate



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 09:53 PM
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Well ignoring urmomma.. not literally ofcourse!!

Maybe India sees itself pushing into ASEAN and maybe those ASEAN states welcome it, hoping to stave of the great dragon.
Maybe India perceives china as a states with motives/policies/intentions unknown and believe me that is more scary than knowing a state's agenda may they be friendly or hostile.
The Akash is irrelevant here.It is an attempt to achieve technological independance sometime in the future. Whil I may agree with your assessment of the missile w.r.t. the S-300 and/or the patriot; the point is that India strives/needs to be self sufficient in every aspect possible and the areas which do not allow this self sufficiency need to be sourced from more than one (auxilliary) dependable sources.
I do not feel that the Akash is superior to the Arrow2/S-300/Patriot..
What I do feel is: that India feels that is has sufficient time to investigate the technologies of ABM, while the S-300/Arrow2 are just a holler away.
The Patriot and well every other piece of american hardware have more than one reason for not being considered as a reliable source of tech/equipment.

EDIT:
When was Kashmir semi-autonomised?? It was a NORMAL state just like any other in India until some foreign country hadn't made its eternal goal to "liberate" it just because they suffer from some lingering complex and hope for revenge (loss of Bangladesh/East Pakistan).
Kashmir was(British Colonial),is (legally) and always will be a part of India.
Its upto Pakistan(more specifically the Pak Army) to give up this rancid infatuation with Kashmir.
India is not emotionally unstable vis-a-vis Kashmir. Its when you see foreign terrorists blow up institutions of govt., kill civilians all under the pretext of Jehad/liberation etc. etc., that your blood boils. 9/11
You realise that your neighbour falsely claims to close terror camps while it actually supports such militants.A time will come when you need take out those camps yourself.
A time will come when you need to respond to things like this:

"The parading of an Indian Army Colonel on a stick(like a poached tiger)who had gone across the border(Bangladesh) for a WHITE FLAG meeting"

by leveling a base with a few Jags/MiG-27s and or/missiles.

That is one thing I respect Israel for..

EDIT: W.r.t. nuclear weapons release India has a no first use policy and hence we need a credible land/air/sea second strike capability.


[edit on 5-3-2006 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 5-3-2006 by Daedalus3]



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Well ignoring urmomma.. not literally ofcourse!!

Maybe India sees itself pushing into ASEAN and maybe those ASEAN states welcome it, hoping to stave of the great dragon.
Maybe India perceives china as a states with motives/policies/intentions unknown and believe me that is more scary than knowing a state's agenda may they be friendly or hostile.
The Akash is irrelevant here.It is an attempt to achieve technological independance sometime in the future. Whil I may agree with your assessment of the missile w.r.t. the S-300 and/or the patriot; the point is that India strives/needs to be self sufficient in every aspect possible and the areas which do not allow this self sufficiency need to be sourced from more than one (auxilliary) dependable sources.
I do not feel that the Akash is superior to the Arrow2/S-300/Patriot..
What I do feel is: that India feels that is has sufficient time to investigate the technologies of ABM, while the S-300/Arrow2 are just a holler away.
The Patriot and well every other piece of american hardware have more than one reason for not being considered as a reliable source of tech/equipment.

EDIT:
When was Kashmir semi-autonomised?? It was a NORMAL state just like any other in India until some foreign country hadn't made its eternal goal to "liberate" it just because they suffer from some lingering complex and hope for revenge (loss of Bangladesh/East Pakistan).
Kashmir was(British Colonial),is (legally) and always will be a part of India.
Its upto Pakistan(more specifically the Pak Army) to give up this rancid infatuation with Kashmir.
India is not emotionally unstable vis-a-vis Kashmir. Its when you see foreign terrorists blow up institutions of govt., kill civilians all under the pretext of Jehad/liberation etc. etc., that your blood boils. 9/11
You realise that your neighbour falsely claims to close terror camps while it actually supports such militants.A time will come when you need take out those camps yourself.
A time will come when you need to respond to things like this:

"The parading of an Indian Army Colonel on a stick(like a poached tiger)who had gone across the border(Bangladesh) for a WHITE FLAG meeting"

by leveling a base with a few Jags/MiG-27s and or/missiles.

That is one thing I respect Israel for..

EDIT: W.r.t. nuclear weapons release India has a no first use policy and hence we need a credible land/air/sea second strike capability.


[edit on 5-3-2006 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 5-3-2006 by Daedalus3]


so ur saying American tech is faulty well uor air defenses are far better than your so called akash aie defense ystem ie more range,better rader better missiles etc the patriot ha sp rpoven itself in tests and i the indian are stupid for rejecting the offers of other countries for a akash 1 either they're too cheap or have an asad exucse for developing it besides can u read the rajendra is a copy of the S 300 radar and its based on an SA 6



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 09:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by urmomma158


so ur saying American tech is faulty well uor air defenses are far better than your so called akash aie defense ystem ie more range,better rader better missiles etc the patriot ha sp rpoven itself in tests and i the indian are stupid for rejecting the offers of other countries for a akash 1 either they're too cheap or have an asad exucse for developing it besides can u read the rajendra is a copy of the S 300 radar and its based on an SA 6


What part of
I do not feel that the Akash is superior to the Arrow2/S-300/Patriot..
did you not understand??!

I'm the one who's supposed to have English as a 2nd language not you!


Did you even read what you quoted here??!


Indians stupid for rejecting the patriot?
Again I don't think you read my post in which I clearly stated my opinions for the reasons behind this decision.
I guess whoever rejects american hardware is stupid aye?



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 01:23 PM
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Now i dunno which in madrassa urmomma158 and ch1466 were classmates in .... but one thing that's pretty clear that they share the same madrassa logic (in addition to being self confessed ORACLES) with their other al-keeda infidel cohorts in bringing up doctored non-issues about literacy, population and making racist reamrks instead of addressing issues about the missile in question.

Now getting to the point, the Akash is not better than the Arrow-2 or the PAC-3. It is only a part of India's envisioned layered missile defence plan.

The real cracker missile of this layered structure is the 100km ranged Prithvi-AD missile that is currently being worked on by RCI, a DRDO subsidary and will start testing later this year.
Here :

The Research Centre Imarat (RCI) in Hyderabad, a premier defense laboratory that produces the Agni and Prithvi missile systems and is under the administrative control of DRDO, has been developing a system since early 2003 that would have a range of 100 kilometers.

A DRDO scientist said the previous National Democratic Alliance government was so impressed with the RCI proposal that $444.4 million was allotted in June 2003 to complete the indigenous air defense system by 2008.

Vijay Kumar Saraswat, RCI director, said Feb 10 that the system RCI is working on will be superior to the Patriot-2 and Russia’s S-300 PMU, and will be ready to enter service by 2008. Saraswat claimed the system will have a mobile launcher carrying three surface-to-air, solid-fuel missiles, equipped with directional warheads.

He said the unnamed system will begin flight trials in mid-2006. RCI will carry out about 10 flights before deploying it with the Indian defense forces.

The DRDO scientist said the indigenous air defense system will have a mission control system that will conduct target acquisition, classification and track estimation, among other functions.

He said another major element is the active phased-array radar system purchased from Israel. Called Sword Fish, the system was purchased in early 2004 for $50 million and is undergoing trials at Hasan in Karnataka state.

Once the air defense system is operational, the DRDO scientist said, RCI will integrate it with other defense systems via satellite links and a secure digital data link that will enable it to track and transmit data up to a range of 1,000 kilometers. •


Article >>

In addition,

French defence major, Thales has offered an across the board technology transfer to India in state-of-art radar knowhow to help New Delhi move speedily towards bridging the gaps in its air space coverage, specially in detecting low flying intrusions.

www.outlookindia.com...

And perhaps you racist trolls have a reading of this as well >> www.abovetopsecret.com...&singlepost=1555289

Also, there is co-development of a new Barak-2 ADS with Israel as well ..

India, Israel tie up on next-gen Barak missile defence system

NEW DELHI, FEBRUARY 6: In an indisputable sign that Indo-Israeli defence ties have matured, the governments of both countries have signed their first-ever joint weapons development contract to design and produce the Barak-II next-generation air defence missiles.

The Barak-II will be jointly developed by the Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI), the Barak programme’s secondary integrator Rafael and by the Hyderabad-based Defence Research & Development Laboratories (DRDL), with the two countries splitting the approximately $330 million kick-start investment.

DRDO sources told Express, ‘‘It will be based on the original Barak, but we will work together for longer range, a more refined seeker, a long-range target-tracking system, better downlinking capabilities and possibly a new propulsion system and payload capacity.’’ In a phased manner, the Barak-I and the Barak-II missiles will replace the ageing Russian OSA-M and Volna RZ-31 missiles. Sources pointed to the inherent advantage of the Barak family’s digital systems over the analog computers that guide the Russian missiles.

The new variant, to be developed over three years, will be built for a targeting range of at least 50 km.

Full Article >>

Mind you, india has several batteries of S-300's in its various versions that were purchased in 1996, 1999, 2002 .... the Prithvi-AD must surely be better. Janes infact quotes an Indian Official as saying the the Prithvi AD is as technologically advanced as the THAAD itself.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 02:51 AM
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Stop highlighting your post. It shows how weak the articles you supply is since you have to highlight the bits you want people to read instead of them making their own opinoins.

Why dont you just cut and paste bits of articles and label them your own



[edit on 9-3-2006 by chinawhite]




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