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NEWS: Uk Government moving to ban extremists.

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posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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The governemnt is looking at stronger immigration laws to try and keep out extremists that are bent on inciting hate.
The proposals will start to be assessed in the coming weeks.
 



www.sky.com
Stronger immigration laws targeting extremists who incite terror in Britain are to be debated by senior MPs.

Tony Blair said keeping out "twisted" elements peddling an "evil ideology" and deporting those already here was a top priority.


He told MPs that ministers and members of other parties would start discussing the proposals within weeks.

The move addresses concern at the apparent ease with which some extremist religious preachers can propagate hate-filled views of Britain inside the country.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


news.bbc.co.uk...

It's about time something like this is done, why it hasn't been before or why it is not already covered by our laws is beyond me. It's a shame that something like the 7/7 tragedy had to happen before this blindingly obvious partial solution was thought of.

[edit on 13-7-2005 by AgentSmith]




posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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The bombers of 7/7 were British born. Just exactly where could they have been deported to?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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subz, my dear friend,

i think the government believes some master mind has come in and "brainwashed" them, well thats what their thinking
i think its about banning those sort of people


[edit on 13-7-2005 by infinite]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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Sensible policy. Difficult to enforce. Unpleasant to explain. Clearly the way of the future in terms of minimizing terror.

PROFILE. PROFILE. PROFILE.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Does that include all forms of incitement? I find that a hard and wobbly immigration position for our government to handle.

To be fair we would have to screen for anti-semetic and anti-muslim immigrants as well as anti-western ones. How do you prove this though? Will these new laws add to the immigration questionaire: do you like westerners? do you like jews? do you like muslims?

I think its absurd, we have racial hatred laws and we will soon have religious hatred laws in this country. If an immigrant runs foul of any of these laws (which apply to inciting home grown terrorism against us) then they should be jailed with a view to deportation.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Even if this was to be put to use its not like you can't lie on a questionaire.
Do you like jews?
Yes

when they really could mean

Do you like jews?
Yes I like it when they die

I'm not trying to bash anyone but just proving a point d unless they did do racial profiling...and that is not good. Even then you get the other yahoo's that don't care about anything even their own country. As a superpower,we are dedicated to figth for the people wiether it be for our own country or those that cannot fight for themselves. If we started saying .."ummm sorry but your from Iraq so you can't come here." then we would be no better then the fear mongers we are trying to stop.

-Aza

[edit on 13-7-2005 by Azathoth]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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Azathoth, hence why I said it was absurd. How do you implement a policy of not allowing individuals to enter this country who will incite hatred? You can either ask them (absurd) or you can run background checks on each applicant with our intelligence assets (ridiculous).

Its just a load of trash that will be trotted out only to block malcontents that the government fears/knows about. Including those who might point out the short comings of the supposed democratic Western hemisphere.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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If they do start cracking down on the "Street Preachers" etc., it's entirely possible they will simply go further underground (not literally), and perhaps more dangerous as a consequence. Without banning foreigners full stop, it's impossible to know if someone is going to incite hate before they are here, and when they are, theres nothing you can do but investigate, and if needed arrest. You can't throw out vast numbers of suspects because, like I said, we'll just have the actual terrorists going deeper, harder to find, and they'll certainly not be stopped.

[edit on 13-7-2005 by chebob]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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The real problems lies with the ones who come over to the US/UK and preach thier anti-western (terrorism) teachings to lone young men who are looking to be accepted....and these clubs, groups whatever accept them and they DO brainwash them. Much like the KKK/NAZI/Aryon groups in the US/UK...the leaders seek out young men who are willing to commit to something. They take advantage of them and BRAINWASH them. Not to take blame off the trigger pullers...they are ultimately responsible, but thier are others at work who teach this hatred and ideas to others...they, IMO, are just as guilty and should be dealt with.

There is a difference between free-speech and advocating/teaching violence, hate crimes and discremination.



[edit on 13/7/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 04:26 PM
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I could not agree more.

I have no problem whatsoever with Muslims fighting western oppression, I just wish that those chose to rise above their enemy and fight in a way that shows the dignity that is truly Islam.
(I wish much more that they did not have to fight in the first place, but then that is not going to happen very soon)

Isn’t a surprise a few brain-washed Brits decided to Bomb London last week after 6 months or so of with pseudo-Islamic preaching.
The troublesome preachers are correct about the issues they are fighting, but their methods are no better than their enemies, and will certainly never achieve anything other than further oppression to the vast majority of members of their faith that have no desire to anything but to live their lives as the majority of westerners do, i.e., with comfort and security for their families.


Great interview with Abu Hamza by the amazing Jeremy Paxman here(real player). Pretty much what I said above, fair points well put from Abu, but solutions that are imo wrong.



Not to take blame off the trigger pullers...they are ultimately responsible, but thier are others at work who teach this hatred and ideas to others...they, IMO, are just as guilty and should be dealt with.


It is amazingly easy to alter peoples morals and the way they think and observe, just look at any military outfit in the world and the procedures and discipline they use to 'build then break' men.

I feel almost certain amount of empathy for them, and especially so for their families, despite the crimes they have committed.
They are also innocents in the war. Cults of any description are powerful influences, I am just grateful that the majority that go through this training are still strong minded enough at the end, no doubt with a tremendous amount of help from their families, to not continue the path that others would have them tread.


edit spelling

[edit on 13-7-2005 by Strodyn]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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There has been much talk in the conservative media lately, mostly in the ultra-conservative camp but slowly working it's way into less radical media sites, urging the US govt. to do the same as the UK proposes, and more. Profiling on a grand scale for anyone who is muslim and deporting them to their country of origin, if from outside the US, and internment camps for the rest; just like they did to the Japanese in WWII. My question to all of you is: when does preemptive profiling of militant and terrorist muslims turn into a mass purge of all people of that faith.? Is there a point where we lose our common humanity and become as dispicable as those we fear? It seems like a mighty slippery slope to me.

While I recognise the need for some kind of remedy to the seemingly endless influx of muslim and other extemist types into this country, there seems like there should be a better way to go about rounding them all up without lumping all people of the muslim faith into the same category: enemy. Just wondering what all of you think.


BTW: I think it's a great news story and an important one : thanks for the work on this



[edit on 7/13/2005 by lightseeker]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 06:15 PM
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as posted by subz
The bombers of 7/7 were British born. Just exactly where could they have been deported to?

Agreed.

Here is my simple and humble concern: racial profiling.




seekerof

[edit on 13-7-2005 by Seekerof]


dh

posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 07:11 PM
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Profiling is the name of the game, who you are, where you are, what you are doing, how you feel
That's the ultimate transmit and response



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 03:59 AM
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There is a difference between free-speech and advocating/teaching violence, hate crimes and discremination.


I don't disagree with it in principle, but can the UK's current government, or for that matter, any government administration be trusted not to abuse the situation. Would it infringe on the average person's privacy?

These are questions that I would want answered before any law was passed allowing governments throw people like this out, but then again, I don't suppose I'll have much of a say anyway, they pretty much do what they want these days.



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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they are going to ban dangerous extremists? Does that mean the bush admin. is going to ban itself as well and the hard right of the repugnaicans? LOL



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Time for you Brits to wake up and look up these messages straight from Muslim radicals:

Radical Blogs
THERE are about a hundred hardline jihadi websites that are used as forums for Islamists to discuss events and which, some analysts believe, have been used to pass messages. On most, the discussions are conducted in classical Arabic but a number also appear in English and in French.

For the past week the London bombs have been the main topic of discussion. The following extracts are from al-Hisbah, one of the websites concerned:

“London put an end to the Khilafah. It is London that gave the Balfour Declaration to the Jews. It is London that has divided Palestine and occupied Iraq. Oh London, you have paid a small part of that big bill of yours for the war against Islam and the Muslims. It was God’s will to give you a taste of the pain.”

- snip -

Yesterday Britain jumped in the air celebrating the announcement of the Olympics. Now they are flying through the air as corpses and parts of corpses. In the name of God that has raised the sky without pillars, let America and those who live with America know that they will never know security before we live that security in Palestine and before all the infidel armies leave the land of Mohammed.”

Source



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 06:19 AM
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And the Muslim Council of Britain have been touring Leeds today spreading the message of how Muslim and Islamic do not go with Terror or Terrorist. That there is radical elements of the muslim community in Britain does not surprise me, it also does not overly concern me.

We've stared down bigger threats to our existence before and we have came no where near to removing our civil rights in the process as we are now.

Im not scared, Leeds is less than 2 hours drive from here. I live downwind of Sellafield nuclear powerplant, the ships with radioactive waste come through my town's ports, there is a British Aerospace Engineering plant in my town that builds nuclear powered submarines.

Terrorists could have a field day in my town and I am not scared. Death is nothing compared to the hellish nightmare of being surveiled 24 hours a day and being continually forced to identify myself in my own country, to who ever the government deems fit.

Time to wake up - yes. Time to realise that terrorists take a back seat to ruining our way of life. Our governments have taken the batton on that race and are streets ahead.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 06:43 AM
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Yeah! Go thought police GO!


Originally by subz
The bombers of 7/7 were British born. Just exactly where could they have been deported to?


We could deport them to Hull.


Originally by infinite
think the government believes some master mind has come in and "brainwashed" them, well thats what their thinking i think its about banning those sort of people


What are the chances of this evil master-mind being an al-Qaeda operative? Maybe it was even Osama Bin Laden himself!

Ok, hands up all extremist fundamentalists who are going to brainwash primary school teachers to bomb public places.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by shanti23]



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 07:20 AM
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I know this is going to sound Politically incorrect and I will get hate mail but when people say a certain group of muslims are the real muslims do people mean westernised muslims? Maybe they are as they have the freedom to change their religion if they decided in the western world but are the real muslims in Iraq, iran or Saidi Arabia because their policies condem apostasy. Its all about submitting to Allah in the end and living under Muslim law with justice according to the Koran. Are western muslims as muslim as middle eastern people? Of course you have two seperate laws under shiite and sunni, because their view of the world is always being right under Allah, we can see why the west is disliked for its practices.

If we get people coming to Britain to preach extream hate and inciting the mind of young people in almost cult type brainwashing with the view of martyrdom. Then we will have to deport them before they get out of hand.
What reason do they have to come here, is it the weather its sunny in the UK or is it to cause political problems to the UK and the laws are better and free to preach hatred when Christians are condemed for preaching peace in Isalamic countries. Even before the war in Iraq there were tentions.

It sounds really horrible what I have written and maybe thats just how and many others feel, hope to change my opinion. I find having an increasing of internationals will give an increase of international problems and the government and the public find it hard to deal with.

Sorry for offendeing peoples views its just my outlook and have done reseach to come to these conclutions.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 07:35 AM
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The time lord, that's a very distorted view on Muslims.

A vast Majority of Muslims, do not "Submit to Allah's will" but "Live their life by Allah's Guidance" it all depends on who instructs them in Islam, just like those for Christians, etc, etc.

In reality there is not a larger problem with Islamic Extremists then there was in the past with Christian ones.

And this law is a piece of trash, that'll no doubt get destorted to mean "Political Radicals" until the Law Lords ruin the Governments fun like last time.




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