Pay attention Britain - U.S. gives radical muslim cleric a life sentence

Appeasement does not work - ever. I applaud the strength showed by the U.S. legal system in this case where the cleric was clearly inciting other muslims to commit crimes.

article

Excerpt:

ALEXANDRIA, Va. — A prominent U.S.-based Islamic scholar who exhorted his followers after the Sept. 11 attacks to join the Taliban and fight U.S. troops was sentenced Wednesday to life in prison.

Ali al-Timimi (search) of Fairfax was convicted in April of soliciting others to levy war against the United States, inducing others to aid the Taliban (search), and inducing others to use firearms in violation of federal law.


Now let's move on to taking care of the rest of them ...


[edit on 7/13/2005 by centurion1211]

Wow, thats impressive. I'd've thought that he'd get a stiff sentence. Life, now thats a good sentence.

Wait a minute hold on here...
The man was given a life sentence for expressing his opinion?

But he was accused of telling a group of young Muslim men just days after the attack that an apocalyptic battle between Muslims and nonbelievers was at hand and that Muslims were obligated to engage in holy war. He told the group that defense of the Taliban was a requirement and that U.S. troops were a legitimate target, according to court testimony.

Interesting.
I dont really know the details of this case so Im not going to comment any further on it until I find out more.

As I said in another thread:

There is a difference between free-speech/opinions and advocating/teaching terrorism or hate crimes

Free speech is great.

Encouraging people to become more effective at murdering others doesn't fall under it.

From what I understand in the UK unlike many "life" sentances here in the US, Life means Life. I don't think the UK will have any problem putting those responable for the bombing away if they are caught.

Originally posted by boogyman
Wait a minute hold on here...
The man was given a life sentence for expressing his opinion?

But he was accused of telling a group of young Muslim men just days after the attack that an apocalyptic battle between Muslims and nonbelievers was at hand and that Muslims were obligated to engage in holy war. He told the group that defense of the Taliban was a requirement and that U.S. troops were a legitimate target, according to court testimony.

Interesting.
I dont really know the details of this case so Im not going to comment any further on it until I find out more.

Basically he encouraged (enlisted?) 9 people to go to Pakistan and train with Taliban in order to fight against the US.

It's a crime in the exact same way a KKK Grandmaster telling people to go kill black people is a crime. Freedom of speech does not extend so far as to protect speech when there is a very real threat to people or property.

Originally posted by Djarums
Free speech is great.

Encouraging people to become more effective at murdering others doesn't fall under it.

Does this mean that all the white supremacist groups in America are going to get life sentences now? It just seems a little strange thats all.

Im not saying that what he was doing is right just that a life sentence doesnt really fit in with past precedent in my opinion. All those KKK guys didnt get life sentences for advocating murder if they got convictions it was for arranging actual murders not for saying someone should be murdered.

Now if this cleric supplied these guys with actual contacts with mujihadeenforces and plane tickets to afghanistan then he deserves a life sentence because thats straight up treason. If he just said however that Muslims should fight western powers killing soldiers is justfied and vaguely suggested that muslims should go fight I think thats still defended under free speach as repugnant as it is. The article is too short on actual details for me to draw an opinion on it.

fair enough.

Shortened Link

Here are some of the indictments.


Moderator Edit to shorten text of link and correct thread display.

[edit on 7-14-2005 by Djarums]

Originally posted by boogyman

Originally posted by Djarums
Free speech is great.

Encouraging people to become more effective at murdering others doesn't fall under it.

Does this mean that all the white supremacist groups in America are going to get life sentences now? It just seems a little strange thats all.

It depends on specific statements which would imply a threat of violence or murder against specific person(s) or institution(s). Incitement to violence and murder against someone under the guise of free speech (or freedom of expression) is a no-no.

we already have incitment to racial hatred laws in the UK! The leader of the BNP is currently being prosecuted under these laws anyway. Plus there is a little thing called the european convention on human rights but of course basic human rights is something that Mr Bush doesn't understand.

Any muslim cleric (or anyone else) who preaches hatred against whites or l other racial groups/religions can be prosecuted under these same laws too but it's worth pointing out that in europe americans are not considered a racial group so preaching hatred against americans would be legal, however if you preach hatred against american jews/muslims/black etc that can be prosecuted.

There is strong evidence that allowing these clerics freedom to express their opinions had actually reduced the possibility of terror attacks.

Originally posted by arnold_vosloo....
There is strong evidence that allowing these clerics freedom to express their opinions had actually reduced the possibility of terror attacks.

I'd agree with that: whilst what the extremist clerics say is inexcusable, silencing them would only lead to others going "underground" surely - with demonstrable evidence to potential followers that they were being repressed, and hence, justified in their extremist viewpoints.

How can you "silence" dissenting voices, radicalism and feelings of alienation - people that are prepared to die for a cause eg suicide bombers, arent necessarily going to be stopped from hearing a distorted message simply because known perpertrators of these extreme views are rounded up and silenced IMO?? Wouldn't others "step up to the plate" and continue to rant hostile messages?? This time, however, they would be more secretive, vicious and extreme - or so I believe.

Well it all depends on the specifics.

I personally believe any preacher of hate, be it KKK, Islamic Extremist or whatever should be put away. But it doesn't work out that way.

You're right, they don't put away all the KKK guys. But they don't put away all the Islamic extremists either do they? As far as I can tell it's been this one guy who got that penalty, that's all.

The specifics are what decides the case. Can you sentence a moron KKK leader for his rants that he hates blacks jews and hispanics? No. He has the right to dislike whoever he wants. Can you jail him for sending out literature that commands his followers to lynch members of those aforementioned groups and offers training in how to do so? That's an entirely different story.