The 13th Apostle, a Sun God, and a Messiah

Originally posted by KSoze
The whole ordeal with the tree does come from Ancient Isra-EL...it was once called the asherah

Ooh! History lesson! Can you fill me in? I'd rather hear what you have to say than mass searching web-wide. If you want to cite a source or link to support, that'd be nice too.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 14-7-2005 by saint4God]

Well I got my info from reading books by Mark Smith such as The early histroy of God; origins of monotheism in the bible...it provides details of the parallels of Ancient Israelite religion and the Canaanite religions.

Basically, the asherah was an idol (distinguished from the Goddess Asherah) a tree, or a pole sometimes mentioned as having idols under it. The actual meaning is still uncertain

Some criticisms of the asherah can be found in the bible:
Judges 6, 1 Ki 15:13, and Jer 17:2; 2 Ki 17:10, 2 Ki 21:3,7; 2 Kings 18:4

The Christian term of Amen was stolen from the Egyptian Pagans. Did you even know that? It was not stolen but it was converted to worship Amen Ra. If you are aware of who Amen Ra was.

Why would Amen be in the Bible? Because it was edited to convert with Ancient pagan sun worship.

It was edited in Rome, by who? A pagan rome emperor. He had many original scriptures burned and converted to fit his needs. He failed to get The Dead Sea Scrolls as it was found hidden in a cave. (Little more of them survived)

Amen Ra is a monotheistic solar deity worshiped long before Christianity, long before even the Judaic Cult, long before the mention of any Jezus and the practices of the corresponding eastern sect cult known as Christianity.

Amen Ra is a pagan deity of the ancient Egyptians, whose followers saluted that pagan god by stating Amen, meaning they agreed with that pagan god and their practices.

Very few if any Christians realize when they utter those words, they are saluting a Pagan God, and are signaling they are followers of Amen RA. As such, they are signaling they are mindless sheep following the dogma of stolen and looted cultures blended in a fashion as to obscure where that comes from and denigrate its true worth.

Such is the shame and disgrace that comes from looting other cultures, and then denigrating them in a warped self serving fashion. The same is found in the Christian denigration of the Babylonian Goddess of the Moon whose name is SIN and the Norse Goddess of the Earth whose name is HEL.

Amen RA is a Pagan God, whose followers long preceded any Christian muttering Amen. Amen means you agree with Amen RA and that you are a follower of that specific Pagan Egyptian God.

The Sabbath day was changed. Saturday is the day of worship,
not Sunday (Sun-Day, ancient pagan sun worship that day).

Matter of fact some of the Vatican members had requests to change from Sunday to Saturday (the correct day) but it failed to get through.

www.remnantofgod.org...


[edit on 14-7-2005 by phantomviewer]

The dictionary disagrees on the origin of amen:

Main Entry: amen
Pronunciation: (')ä-'men, (')A-; 'ä- when sung
Function: interjection
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin, from Greek amEn, from Hebrew AmEn
-- used to express solemn ratification (as of an expression of faith) or hearty approval (as of an assertion)

From Hebrew is it? Then, did the Hebrews snake the word from Egyptian? If that's the case, you'd need to edit that part about the roman emporer because I'm fairly confident he spoke Latin.

As far as the Sabbath goes, I'd recommend reading the New Testament as to what Jesus did on the Sabbath...how he *gasp* "worked" on a day he should not have. He explains what he's doing and why, no breaking of any rules other than the Pharisee's. The book of Hebrews, again, has a nice follow-up on that as well.

The origins of the tree are not from Israel. The origins of the tree are a adoption from pagnism. It is one of the practices the Children of Israel were told not to engage in but did anyway when they decided by intellect logic and reason that they wanted to be like the nations surrounding them. This included the desire of the Children of Israel to have a king over them.

The Israelites began to build groves and high places to worship as did the heathen/pagans. They worshiped on the hills in the day time and in the valleys at night . Worshiping as did the pagans the sun in the day time and the moon in the valleys at night.
The placing of trees in thier homes is covered in Jeramiah Chapter 10. To bring the tree in the house nail it up and decorate it with silver and gold. This is not a practice which the Hebrew God told them to do. Same with the groves and high places. These were the bunny clubs of the day. They would have made Hugh Hefner and company look like kindergarden kids.
These were among the abominiations for which the children of Israel were punnished over and over ...eventually being destroyed as a nation. Simple disobedience.
In short ..the practices of the Hebrews was not to be as the nations surrounding them did. This is quite clear.
Many Christians, as did the Hebrews, carry on this man made tradition in ignorance. Many preachers today know this information but refrain from teaching the Whole Council of God to keep their jobs. There are however Christians who know this tradition of the pagans and also how it has infiltrated the Christian belief as it did the practices of the Hebrews in ancient times.
There is no instruction in the New Testament to build huge buildings and edifices to the glory of the church. It is surprising how often one can go down the roads in any town and see how many churchs are moved around in the parking lots so as to get the sun to shine through the stained glass to the altar at worship time. This is a pagan tradition ...sun god worship. The worship of the Sun in the East.
The Christian sacrafice is finished. "It is Finished" no need of a altar anymore ..no sacrafice needed...simple..no altar needed. It is simplicity in itself..but the traditions of men have to complicate things for power and the glory of the institutions of men. By the way ..that means no priesthood needed as in the ancient times either. Every believer is a priest unto God.
Christmas comes from ancient Baal worship and its variations. The sun god religions. The sun god dies on the shortest day of the year...December 21/22 also known as the winter solstice. Three days in the grave and the sun god is raised and resurected in the newness of life and born again...December 24/25th.
The simplicity of this knowlege is that there is no instruction in the Olde or New Testaments to celebrate a birthday. None..period...ever. Not for the Hebrews or the Christians. The three wisemen and their bringing of gifts is not for a birthday but the custom of the day was when visiting a king to bring gifts. This history is not taught to most peoples anymore.
Christianity nor the Hebrew religion did not come from the pagans in its root forms..it was obviously by its instruction ..totally against this ..by the very prohibitions associated with its beginings. In its bastardization form today ..its pagan practices can be traced way back to thier corruption and origins. This is known by those who are willing to do the work and study.

Always by logic and reason ..inelligent men will try to bastardize a thing to thier glory often confusing their readers with such drivel. There is a clear line in conduct between the pagan customs and the Hebrews of olde and the Christians of today.
Christianity is sectarian ...in nature..antisocial, seperate..as were the Hebrews in ancient times supposed to conduct themselves. Seperate..come out from amongst them and be ye seperate sayeth the Lord. This is what it means to be in this world but not of this world. Every attempt by intelligentsia in education ,politics which finances education, news media, seminarys etc etc is to make Christianity social and in this world and of this world..a clear bastardization.
The bastardization is a attempt by logical intelligent men to make Christianity social and non sectarian..which comes from paganism. One need not be rocket material to figure this out.

Thanks ,
Orangetom

Now although Amen was the name of an Egyptian god, its purpose in Christian tradition does stem from the Hebrew word meaning truth. The Hebrews were in captivity under the Egyptians, and the word could have been picked up there.

Or it could just sound the same since the meanings are miles apart

Originally posted by orangetom1999
The origins of the tree are not from Israel. The origins of the tree are a adoption from pagnism. It is one of the practices the Children of Israel were told not to engage in but did anyway when they decided by intellect logic and reason that they wanted to be like the nations surrounding them. This included the desire of the Children of Israel to have a king over them.

Correct, thats what the books i mentioned are about...the assimilation of Canaanite religion into Israelite religion

once you go into the practices of other religions .in violation of the instructions of the Hebrew God..you have made a switch. Often as a matter of historical record..this was not told to the practicioners as they followed their "learned men...or Rabbi's". Right there you have switched gods. You now follow another god ..a counterfit ..made to look like the real thing , smell like it, but in fact it is not the real thing.
The example in the New Testament of the woman caught in adultery is textbook. They brought this woman caught in adultery ..in the very act before Jesus to see how he would handle the events. Would he handle events as would their learned teachers or some other way. First off they didnt care about the woman caught in adultery. They were concerned with entrapping Jesus in a mistake and then discrediting him to protect their power base. But the Law of Moses which they claimed to be keeping said that "they shall be stoned" meaning two. Male and female. They brought only the woman..caught in the very act.....oh .this awful woman. They claimed to keep the Law of Moses but were instead practicing something else. Women get stoned men do not get stoned. They had violated the Law of Moses ..in secret..they had in fact switched gods by traditions of men. And these were learned men. They had inserted this new rule..in secret and overlaid it on the Law of Moses as if it were in fact the Law of Moses..it was no such thing. Hence the famous reply to the Pharisees given by Jesus. They knew it too..thats why every time they tried to entrap Jesus they went away with thier tails tucked between their legs...speachless.
They had changed gods..in secret..they didnt tell anyone. You think our leaders today havent done this very thing ...in secret..by education ,by men of letters by gnosticism, by sophism.????

This substitution is the very thing that our leaders ,congress, courts, educators, et al..do today .and often take advantage of the public in this manner.
This is why the Word will never be allowed in public schools..it will eventually put Light on this type of conduct. A Light that the learned men do not want around.

Thanks,
Orangetom

You have voted orangetom1999 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

This is why the Word will never be allowed in public schools..it will eventually put Light on this type of conduct.

Hmm...perhaps the Word will never be allowed in public schools because not everyone agrees with it.

A Light that the learned men do not want around.

"Learned men?" Are you suggesting that the academic community, in its whole, has an agenda to destroy the practice of religion? I'm sure a few select do, but not all "learned men" are atheists. We all have our own views.

You have voted orangetom1999 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Thank you

I am going to try to post your last quote as a base to make my point.

"Learned men?" Are you suggesting that the academic community, in its whole, has an agenda to destroy the practice of religion? I'm sure a few select do, but not all "learned men" are atheists. We all have our own views."

I am not saying this at all Fortimus. I am saying that the track record of history "clearly " indicates that learned men will "substitute" one religion for another often in secret and for dubious purposes. Often counterfitting the religion for purposes of power and control. Nevertheless always for this power and control by substituting the traditions of men for the Word of God..without exception. All academics...no ...but a very large portion. For the record...it becomes obvious that the "closed shop" halls of academia is the only place this drivel can survive. Obviously among the bulk of Americans here ..the public they dont want it. This is why it must survive mostly on campuses ..in a closed enviornment. You dont have to be rocket material again to figure it out.
For the record again ..I am well aware that Politics is a very devout religious practice with very devout religious adherants. A lifestyle if you like. Not what most people have learned to think about politics but a careful disection of politics ..especially every four years will make this clear. Also the Supreme Court nominations will also make this clear ..the devoutness of the adherants of this body Politic. It has already demonstrated this in the appelate court process.
Remember something Fortimus...the bulk of the academic process in this country is paid for by a group of devout religious zealots called politicians so what do you think they are going to pay for??? What view will they finance....any view that will not put Light on what they are doing and not doing. No rocket material needed here. By the way Fortimus...by this definition..what religion is it exactly ..that the body politic is financing in the halls of academia?? You might want to think this one through very carefully ..concerning any political party.

A very different view than is normally posted in these rooms.
Thanks,
Orangetom

With the up and coming debates and question sessions concerning the new pick for US Supreme Court openings observe carefully the placement of the sides in this issue. Watch carefully the line up and the questions. When observing this type of wildlife in its natural habitat...notice the zealous nature of this religion in operation...both sides and the motives. Consider if this is conduct you observe is for the purposes of the people or the political partys. Once you are able to determine this ..then you can begin to consider the religion in operation and the rules or non rules operating here or are they playing on the fears and indecisions of the public. This is a important telltale of what is going on. Observe carefully the religion in operation.

Thanks ,
Orangetom

Everyone please forgive my ignorance. I just dont understand how a Christian can justify a Sunday Sabbath & celebrate these modern Christian holidays (whether they are rooted in paganism or not). Didn't Yahweh appoint specific days & festivals that His people are to follow? Why not just hold to THEM? It seems like such a careless gamble for Christians to accept any man-made change or modification in instuctions that were given to you by Yahweh. And how risky is it to assume that Yahweh won't count you guilty for it on the grounds that you had good intentions? A disobedient child with good intentions is still a disobedient child. It's just difficult for me to understand how Christians seem to just overlook/ignore so many inconsistencies. Is it not possible that it is by His will that these 'issues' are now being revealed to us? In Revelations, when a Voice says "come out of her, my people", isn't that an indication that His people would be 'within' something detestable to Him? Bottom line, I just feel that it's a blessing that the truths about many things regarding the Word are so accessable to us now. Christians,although they come across this knowledge themselves, just seem to be stuck in their ways. Even when they find out their ways may have been wrong.

Welcome omniescient! Glad you've come to this thread for a more direct focus on pagan influences in Christianity.

Originally posted by omniescient
But I would like to say this:
I just dont understand how a Christian can justify a Sunday Sabbath

See Sabbath thread I'd linked on the other thread where we were talking about this. In summary:

"Another time he (Jesus) went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Stand up in front of everyone."

Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent. - Mark 3:1-4

Originally posted by omniescient
& celebrate these modern Christian holidays (whether they are rooted in paganism or not).

There are a dime a dozen of these threads, take your pick. If I'm not on them, I'd be glad to come over. Just let me know which one. A lot of this has to do with the history of evangelism (which is not a swear word, but some people including some tv evangelists can make it so). If I recall correctly, the Roman Chatholic Church practised integration of regional cultures to facilitate Biblical understandings. I disagree with this practice because of this reprocussion, though the argument can be made that many have come to know God through these kinds of parallel analogies.

I agree Christian holidays should not have anything to do with paganism, and practice to remove any pagan symbols, practices, and rites that are associated with them. This means though that I do celebrate the birth and resurrection of Christ. I'm still scrutinizing these holydays closely (holiday comes from "holy day").

Originally posted by omniescient
Didn't Yahweh appoint specific days & festivals that His people are to follow?

Christ was a practicing Jew, who did introduce the Last Supper/Resurrection as holy events. Paul sums this answer up nicely:

"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." - Corinthians 10:31

There are other references too, that say do not worry about these things so long as we're doing it for Yahweh, according to His goodness, His love, and His righteousness.

Originally posted by omniescient
Why not just hold to THEM?

For a Christian, is the festival of lights a more glorious than the promise of eternal life? I agree that Christians should dig into their heritage more, and perhaps make use of these celebrations to remember. Having a solar calendar instead of lunar can complicate things, but I know of some Messianic Jewish friends whom I could learn a lot from in this regard.

Originally posted by omniescient
It seems like such a careless gamble for Christians to accept any man-made change(s) or modification(s) in instuctions that were given to you by Yahweh.

I agree we should be careful to remain in His Light and not get wrapped up in candy, costumes, clovers, alcohol, and other things making them our god. Clearly that breaks the laws and intentions for our hearts.

Originally posted by omniescient
And how risky is it to assume that Yahweh won't count you guilty for it on the grounds that you had good intentions?

No one is guiltless:

"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." - Roman 3:22-24

If a person is gambling on being perfect to get into heaven, they're in for a nasty surprise. I absolutely agree that we should be discerning and careful in the things we do, being sure that they honour God.

Originally posted by omniescient
A disobedient child with good intentions is still a disobedient child.

I agree we should take care, but again, there is no "perfect child" except One.

Originally posted by omniescient
It's just difficult for me to understand how Christians seem to just overlook/ignore so many inconsistencies.

Lack of a yearning for the truth? Selfishness? These are all things we can all accuse each other for, though not only in this instance but in many others. But, that's what we're here to discuss. Let both sides represent and the jury decide...but we should be cautious not to be hasty and judge one another.

Originally posted by omniescient
I believe in Yahweh & His Word,

Excellent, as do I. I think we've got a firm foundation from which to work then.

Originally posted by omniescient
but I also believe that these alteration are devices being used to 'decieve many of the elect'.

I agree that any alterations are devices to decieve. Furthermore, I appreciate your compassion and concern for others.

Originally posted by omniescient
Is it not possible that it is by His will that these 'issues' are now being revealed to us?

Certainly. I believe that you and me are supposed to be here having this discussion right now. If you try to figure out the probability of it being "chance" or "luck"(which is a part of a different religion entirely), the numbers would be staggering. Many times, when two reasonable people discuss things, something is learned by one, the other or even both. I think that's an important part of our mission --> spiritual growth.

Originally posted by omniescient
In Revelations, when a Voice says "come out of her, my people", isn't that an indication that His people would be 'within' something detestable to Him?

Ya, that's what I gather.

Originally posted by omniescient
Bottom line, I just feel that it's a blessing that the truths about many things regarding the Word are so accessable to us now. Christians,although they come across this knowledge themselves, just seem to be stuck in their ways. Even when they find out their ways may have been wrong.

This isn't a problem soley for Christians...this is a problem with manking. But! It is easy to see this problem in Christians because they are supposed to be adherents to God's truth. An athiest or agnostic is not bound by any fixed moral law, but a Christian should have it in their hands in black and white print. A Wiccan can "do as thou will", but a Christian has to do what is righteous in the sight of God. Any idea how difficult that can be to do all the time? They're high standards for any human to try to reach up to...nevertheless we must try.

I'm totally enjoying this conversation now. I'm feeling like I'm talking to you instead of someone else's notes. We all like to think we're original in thought, but these same questions and issues you're asking were also asked and addressed two thousand years ago (sometimes older) as well, not just on other ATS threads.