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POLITICS: Rove Case May Test Bush Loyalty

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posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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The growing firestorm of controversy over the role of Karl Rove in the "outing" of CIA agent Valerie Plame may show again just how loyal President Bush is to his advisors and senior staff. In the past, President Bush has stood by senior staff who had come under fire for various reasons.
 



www.nytimes.com
By DAVID E. SANGER
Published: July 13, 2005
WASHINGTON, July 12 - Loyalty has long been the most hallowed virtue in the Bush White House, but rarely has it been tested the way it has this week.

No one has been closer to the president longer, or bailed him out of more tight spots, than Karl Rove, his chief political adviser. Now the question is whether President Bush can protect Mr. Rove from a gathering political storm, no matter how furious it becomes.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.




Well, it's pretty clear to anyone, who knows anything about the relationship between Bush and Rove, that Rove isn't going anywhere; he's the brains of the outfit, at least as far as political and policy issues are concerned and he is the one person chiefly responsible for Bush's political success.

I will say that if Bush decided to bite the bullett and fire Rove it would increase my opinion of the man and might even increase his popularity rating. although, after Iraq and
his refusal to draft a viable exit plan from that country, that ship has probably sailed aleady.

Related News Links:
www.cnn.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
politics.abovetopsecret.com...






[edit on 7/13/2005 by lightseeker]

[edit on 7/13/2005 by lightseeker]




posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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I can hardly wait to see where this goes. If Rove is guilty, Mr. Bush has to do something about the "brains" in this government, I would think.


Do i see that happening? NO. I will say that as the plot thickens, beware of large crowds, trains, planes, etc. if you know what i mean. This will be resolved pronto with some kind of "attack" right here in the USA. No more questions asked, IMHO.

And no, i'm not psychic, just wise



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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If Rove is charged with a crime, he'll probably have to cut loose -- he can't continue his job under indictment. But I think that's highly unlikely, since it's pretty clear whatever he may have done doesn't rise to the requirements of the criminal law.

I don't think he'd let him go because of any pressure, if he did, I'd have a much lower opinion of him.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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Bush is a felon and that didnt stop him from becoming POTUS so I think any charges against Rove will just bring them closer together.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Predictions anyone...

I say he gets fired, hand slap, and then continues to work behind the scenes...

Bush can't make it without his little Rovey...



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 11:53 AM
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I bet ya Rove goes down for employing an illegal Nanny which leads to his thoughtful resignation.

Karl Rove is such a traitor, what a scum bag.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Rove will be promoted just as every other Bush official has been



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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I think we have a tempest in a teapot here. Based upon all the information I have heard, Rove has done nothing wrong. All the Democrats keep screaming about compromised national security, but the CIA agent in question was not a covert agent. From what I gather, he never even mentioned her name. Rove even kept one reporter from going to jail by telling him to go ahead and testify about the incident.

If Rove is convicted of a crime, the President will have no choice but to let him go. I don't think a crime was committed and that eventually the whole thing will blow over.


[edit on 2005/7/13 by GradyPhilpott]


df1

posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
All the Democrats keep screaming about compromised national security...

With all do respect, to suggest that this is a matter of democrat/republican ideology is intellectually dishonest. Im a libertarian, not a democrat. I am completely unbiased about democrats and republicans with a great dislike for both.


If Rove is convicted of a crime...

I am more than willing to give Rove the presumption of innocent till proven guilty. However if he is convicted it is not merely a crime, it is a crime called TREASON. And at this point the evidence that has come out is quite damning should it prove to be factual.




Excerpted from: TREASONGATE: IT'S NOT JUST KARL ROVE by Ted Rall
Karl Rove, on the other hand, has already been found out as a likely traitor to the United States. Now we must work backwards. Does his exposure help to explain some of the Administration's most baffling foreign policy blunders?

No matter how remote, we must now consider the possibility that Karl Rove may in the employ of, and/or receiving money from, a terrorist organization such as Al Qaeda. Alternatively, could he be in the employ of a hostile foreign government? If he betrayed a CIA agent, Rove is a traitor and therefore capable of anything. Only an exhaustive investigation of his and his associates' anti-American activities, up to and including those committed by George W. Bush, can resolve these questions.



Do read the editorial before shooting the messenger over his ideology.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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Actually Grady...
the problem is that Bush is on record talking very angrily about this...
He promised the leak would be found and prosecuted to the full extent of the law... in his words... "this is a criminal act...

little did Bush know that he was getting his teddy bear in trouble...



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by df1

Excerpted from: TREASONGATE: IT'S NOT JUST KARL ROVE by Ted Rall


Ted Rall is a hysterical nincompoop and a traitor to boot. Ted Rall has no right to call out anyone.

[edit on 2005/7/13 by GradyPhilpott]


df1

posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by df1

Excerpted from: TREASONGATE: IT'S NOT JUST KARL ROVE by Ted Rall


Ted Rall is a hysterical nincompoop and a traitor to boot. Ted Rall has no right to call out anyone.

[edit on 2005/7/13 by GradyPhilpott]


Thus far your only defense of Rove is "Rall is a traitor too". Don't you think that is a bit hysterical and childish? I look forward to seeing your evidence that Rall is a traitor, but my expectations are low.

We do have a substantial amount evidence coming out indicating that Rove and perhaps others in the white hosue are traitors. But dont let the facts interfere with your ideology, that would require some independent thought on your part and you are far too partisan for that to happen.

I do you have one question for you:

Can you name anything that the Bush white house has done that you think is inappropriate or wrong?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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In september of 2003 bush and McCellen both stated that if anyone in the Bush administration was invovled in the leak, they would be fired, or be kicked out. So far The white house is in damage control mode and trying to deflect all questions. If you look at the video of the White house press breifing yesturday, and listen to the reporters, it is obvious there is a huge accountability issue with this administration who only says what needs ot be said to help out it's own party. Regardless if it is a lie or not.

THe main points are if Rove had access to this information (i.e. security clearance) and if he didn't, who actaully gave him the info, or where did he get it from.

The WORST rove will be charged with is being an accomplice to an act of treason.

Most likey he will get prison time, and be later pardoned by a republican US president, just like the watergate people did



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by df1
Thus far your only defense of Rove is "Rall is a traitor too". Don't you think that is a bit hysterical and childish? I look forward to seeing your evidence that Rall is a traitor, but my expectations are low.



If you would read more than one post you would see that I have not defended Rove, at all, and I find your arrogant condescension insufferable. I don't have to prove that Rall is a traitor, he proves it virtually anytime he publishes. So, kindly take your self-righteous tone and use it on your schoolyard buddies.

The most cogent arguments regarding the incident in question maintain that the agent in question was not operating undercover and her status with the CIA was well-known, as she drove to work everyday, parked her car in the parking lot and went home each day. Rove never mentioned her name in any conversation and therefore committed no wrong.

Now, I don't actually know what happened, so like any prudent individual, I will be watching to see what the grand jury comes up with. If Rove committed a crime, he should be punished, but based on the analyses I have seen, the case against Rove seems flimsy, at best.


[edit on 2005/7/13 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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The guy is guilty as sin.

Rove said "Wilson's wife ...apparently works at the agency on wmd issues"

It doesnt take a genius to figure out who Wilson's wife is. He'd wrote an autobiography and his wife was named in it.

Rove's lame defence that he didnt specifically mention her by name is ridiculous.

Also she wasnt a desk jockey as portrayed by some, she was working undercover in the Middle East. And why did McLellan say that whoever leaked the info on Valerie Plame would be fired, even if they were in the Bush administration? Why did he go so far as to say they'd be fired if Valerie Plame's status as a CIA employee was common knowledge?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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BUT we have this thing called Due Proccess.

Let's see how it plays.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 06:00 PM
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Seems he has previous form for doing exactly the same thing. Leaking info to Novak that he shouldnt of got him fired by Bush Snr in 1992.


Rove fired from Bush Sr's '92 campaign over leak to Novak. Karl Rove was fired from the 1992 re-election campaign of Bush Sr. for allegedly leaking a negative story about Bush loyalist/fundraiser Robert Mosbacher to Novak. Novak's piece described a meeting organized by then-Senator Phil Gramm at which Mosbacher was relieved of his duties as state campaign manager because "the president's re-election effort in Texas has been a bust." Rove was fired after Mosbacher fingered him as Novak's source.

Rove was the "only one with a motive to leak": Mosbacher says: "I said Rove is the only one with a motive to leak this. We let him go." The motive in question? Mosbacher had given Rove only a quarter of the $1 million spent on direct mail contracts for the 92 campaign; Rove, who in 1988 had the entire direct mail contract, therefore had an axe to grind with Mosbacher. Novak's column stated: "Also attending the session was political consultant Karl Rove, who had been shoved aside by Mosbacher."

Mosbacher still says Rove did it: Although Novak and Rove continue to deny Rove was the source of the leak, Mosbacher recently stated "I still believe he did it."

(Sources: "Karl and Bob: a leaky history," Houston Chronicle, Nov. 7, 2003, ; "Genius," Texas Monthly, March 2003, p. 82; "Why Are These Men Laughing," Esquire, January 2003)

Rove was caught for leaking to Novak in '92 and was fired by Bush Sr.

I know there is due process. Im not a juror so I can comment on the evidence before the investigation is over


[edit on 13/7/05 by subz]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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There are many issues here.... One poster wrote "....Bush is a a felon." ... first time I've heard that; may I ask for what? As for Rove, the law is very clear in this matter, and what Rove did fits NONE of the criteria for the crime he's been charged with. 1st, Valerie "outed" herself on her second date with her future husband, while she actually WAS under deep cover as an agent. 2nd, the law states that there is a maximum time period from the time the agent left deep cover, which is five years; Valerie was out of deep cover, at a "normal" desk job, for over nine years. Her own husband "outed" her in his book. And, yes, she most certainly did have a desk job, a result of the possibility her cover may have been blown while in the field, fully nine years before Rove's supposed leak. President Bush SHOULD fire him, IF what Rove said actually did break the law. If he didn't, then he should keep his job. "GradyPhilpott" was correct in his post, in his second paragraph. Rove is the brains behind the scenes? That was said about Reagan, too. Odd, isn't it, that President Bush's grade levels were higher than Kerrys. I find it truly amazing how Rove's statement can cause such a fuss (although I dislike "leaks" of any kind) and yet ex-president Pantload sold our entire patent database to the Chinese, which included 40 years of nuclear technology and delivery systems. By the way, our exit plan for Iraq is "Victory." What's our exit plan for the war on poverty? or Kosovo? Treason??? .....Giving aid and comfort to the enemy is treason, and yet Kerry, Hillary and Chappaquidick Fats still aren't wearing prison orange.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
One poster wrote "....Bush is a a felon." ... first time I've heard that; may I ask for what?



This is the 1976 Maine police document recording the arrest of George W. Bush for driving under the influence of alcohol. Bush, who was 30 at the time, was popped over the Labor Day weekend near his family's Kennebunkport summer home. Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150 fine, and had his driving privileges briefly revoked in the state of Maine. The arrest record card was released November 2 by Kennebunkport police. The Maine Bureau of Motor Vehicles also released this summary of Bush's DUI conviction.

www.thesmokinggun.com...

Where I come from, DUI is a felony. He recklessly endangered the lives of everyone on the road that night. If I could write laws I would class DUI as attempted manslaughter.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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Well, as Bush said, if anyone in his administration broke the law, they would be off the team. However, as the facts of this case are coming out, it's becoming clearer and clearer Rove did not commit a crime. He was contacted by the reporter to talk about welfare reform (according to Rove's attorney) and at the end Cooper turned the conversation to WMDs. Rove advised him not to go down that path and that the former ambasador Joe was lying, according to the email that was released, knowing George Tennant was going to be making those same statements later in the day.

On top of that, the ousting of a spy as it applies to treason must meet one of two criteria: They must be a covert operative (there is no indication she is or was) and she must have been out of the country on CIA business in the past 5 years (she was not). So Rove broke no laws, and the special prosecuter knows it. That's why Rove is not being targeted in the criminal investigation.



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