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Why does Creation HAVE to be against Evolution?

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posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Well, this is the first time i've been to this part of the forum, and in the first 3 or 4 topics I have read, i noticed that there seems to be this constant battle between Creation and Evolution.

Now, firstly, I have always firmly beleived in Evolution and never been a religious person. Having said this, I fail to see why the two 'theories' can't exist as BOTH true? Creation and Evolution both cover completely different areas of life and the questions associated with it.

Now having said that, could anyone point out firm-evidence that creation is true? (not because I don't believe in it because of Evolution -- I just can't think of anything!)

I am also not sure that 'Evolution' is the correct term. No creationist can deny that people, lifeforms, animals all 'adapt' to suit their surroundings, in some way or shape. This is really all evolution is, adaptation.




posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:40 AM
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I have always thought that both are true - to a point anyways.

Sure, we may have evolved - to a degree anyways, but I see too much evidence that we were at least manipulated to our current state. Of course it wasn't all done in 6 days - what was a day before the earth?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:47 AM
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Yah used evolution for creation. You just don't flick a switch and its all done. The growth of the universe is being studied as we speak. So there for it has always been evolving at a rate it chooses. Humans limit Yah with time and boundries. Science and the church have been hashing it out since satan(a draconian from sedna) got ahold of the church and believe you me he will have us belive this and love it. Watchout for him he's a sneaky little devil.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by ekul08
Now, firstly, I have always firmly beleived in Evolution and never been a religious person. Having said this, I fail to see why the two 'theories' can't exist as BOTH true?

Creationism is not a theory tho. But the idea of creationism is that evolution is completely wrong. Therefore, they cannot co-exist because they are exlusive of one another.

Creation and Evolution both cover completely different areas of life and the questions associated with it.


could anyone point out firm-evidence that creation is true?

What could such evidence even look like? Evidence of miraculous divine interference? The very meaning of scientific evidence contradicts it being able to be 'for' such a thing.


This is really all evolution is, adaptation.

And this is what many creationists deny as occuring. They'll state that adaptation cannot occur, and that organisms 'fit' their environment because god made it that way.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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You cannot limit Yah! Who is to say he didn't use this avenue of evolution to create what all now recognize? WE ARE ONLY HUMANS! We have to put limits on ourselves in order to have order. Everyone keeps on trying to figure out why and what Yah had done....You will all find out when you die.....Belive me it will happen in our life time. Enjoy life, trees, plants, animals, fossils and ancient history. You will never get the answer you want. I haven't and never will.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:31 PM
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According to Sumerian creational myths we were CREATED by cross breeding with higher apes alongside EVOLUTION! The Sumeriens starting around 3700BC, correct me if I'm wrong, seem to have this whole question sorted even before it started! Lol!

They do, which might not be to most people's taste though, attribute the act to aliens!This is of course only an interpretation but the Sumerians do seem to have had a lot of knowledge that traditionally they really have had. They deppict a heliocentric solar system with 9 planets! They are the first to have writing, schools and a form of parliament and also the first, I think to have irrigation!



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by ekul08
Now, firstly, I have always firmly beleived in Evolution and never been a religious person. Having said this, I fail to see why the two 'theories' can't exist as BOTH true?

Because some people believe the bible literally.. they seem to think it would be betraying/blaspheming against god to accept evolution as fact.. ironically.. if god and ID were real.. not accepting evolution as fact would be blasphemous.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

could anyone point out firm-evidence that creation is true?

What could such evidence even look like? Evidence of miraculous divine interference? The very meaning of scientific evidence contradicts it being able to be 'for' such a thing.


Short of a large booming voice saying "Would you guys cut it out, this is how it happened..." the only "evidence" would have to be a lack of evidence. I mean, there would have to be a massive break in the evolutionary chain, and no possibilities whatsoever that whatever is missing can exist.

Basically, we'd need to prove to ourselves that we've exhausted all of the fossils on this planet and there's just some pieces to the puzzle that aren't there. In the same breath though, you can always dig deeper, underneath that area no one's touched, so on and so forth.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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I think I know were it goes. One person says Evolution and the other says creation, soon its back to God and Atheism and than other religeons want to join the controversial argument.

If you believe in religeon than you must believe that we were created by a being wether a god or the Anunaki as a slave race (wich is a dead sumarian religeon) or a giant turtles back in a Native American religeon, I dont know wich though.

But time must have been created because there cannot be any one start in time (it goes in a contant circle, and there arent edges or starts or corners in circles). In the fourth dimension that is to a religeous beleaf, were god is in the midst of all time at onse and every point of every action all at onse, like a . in a way there isnt any time at all. So because all time is at once god must have allready been as well as everything ells, in the Budhist phyolophy; 'Once somethin has been made it cannot be unmade. At because god had this advantage of being there allready, he could make the third dimension, possably connecting some kind of hole to his dimension(4th) and creating ours (3). This could be how he gets to us so easily, if, you believe it.

But, if you believe what I have just stated than he could or could not have just started something known to us as the 'big bang', and I believe that since time can slow and speed up, when god created time in one place, it had to spread, and so with it came (What possably could have came through the hole in his (4th) dimension) stars and such , and as we call it now the big bang.

Black holes could possably be rips in space as it streches, if space is the same dencity through and through than this would occur, what the rips would be I dont know, black holes? The rips would stop time, or, lead to the fourth dimension were all time is one.

Possably, the idia of creation was not the Human, but the soal put into the Human by an all powerfull sorce, otherwise known as a god, because the soal cannot be destroyed, and so because it was put into Human bodys as a battery, the 'Karma' or the life span of a person would slowly become depleated until it died and the batterie would be put into another Human body without a soal (Second and past lives). (Anything made cannot be unmade) (or, anything done cannot be undone, because it allready has been, and so this is how we can live for ever and we do have an affterlife.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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People say the Bible should not be taken litrally and both evolution and creation was part of the same process. It could have been and maybe with how long it takes light to travel across the universe as such does not really mean it took as long as we do by using our measurements.

For example God created man ready made, the trees were ready made. If the trees had growth rings then God could have made everything set up within a few seconds and gave the trees an artificial growth signiture a bit like the universe and its expanse. All God needed to do to create vast distances is say one point x is length and one point height is y and depth is z and like building a cube. And what ever rules apply to that cube in terms of time and distance travelled by light applys only to our reality.

It still sounds unconclusive to some and ultimately its down to faith.

God would not interfere by giving us technology when spiritual understanding inspiration and miracles out do any technology. Any information like how to build a spaceship would have proven disasterous and led man kind to destruction anyway like the tower of Babel. God said man had advanced too quickly so he confused the languages. How advanced? maybe to a point of openning a portel to heaven or the spiritual realm of the fallen angels.

Like I said all this is not scientific evidence but anyway creation should not be seen as a way to say people who believe are just gullable and stupid and out dated. We can say we used granite to make a sculpture a day ago but the granite it self will carbon date thousands of years. But it does not mean the sculpture is thousands of years old.

Its up to the individual to believe what ever they want this is one explantion amoungst many other faiths.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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I just wanted to say I think that we were created by somthing. BUT I think when we were created we started off as somthing different.. and evolved so I personally believe in Both.. I think somthing created us, and we evolved into what we are now. Im with Ekul.. i think they should both be able to coexist. But im also with The Time Lord that it all comes down to faith. (or maybe were all wrong.)



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by Kupios

According to Sumerian creational myths we were CREATED by cross breeding with higher apes alongside EVOLUTION! The Sumeriens starting around 3700BC, correct me if I'm wrong, seem to have this whole question sorted even before it started! Lol!



Uh, the Sumerians said this or Zacharia Sitchen said this.

Do you have any sources for this info?


Anyways, the problem is that young earth creationism is totally incompatible with evolution. Literal interpretation of the bible makes science into satanism.

Evolution and a creator however work just fine. The problem is, that a supernatural creator is not science. The catholic church has no problem with evolution.

It's one thing to say you believe in creation, the problem is when people want to teach ID in school, in biology class. That is wrong.



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 02:50 AM
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Odin created us with his hammer, i mean i can see the proof of this because we have hammers !

no offense, but religion is a fabrication, if you do a little research you will see over time religions slowly evolved and eventually stopped evolving, and in the last ~100 years have become a road block on the path to our evolution through technology, our social structures, etc.

[edit on 14-7-2005 by Davood]



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 07:15 AM
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ev·o·lu·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lshn, v-)
n.
A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.


Biology.
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.


Evolution and adaptation are different. Evolution says a bunch of ooze over billion of years became what we see and us. From ooze to mankind. 2 different things.

I live in Wisconsin and it's July. 6 months from now I will be wearing a winter coat. I have adapted my clothing to my surroundings, but I will still be a man.

Evolution and creation are opposed to each other. God tells us He didn't do things through evolution.



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Evolution and adaptation are different. Evolution says a bunch of ooze over billion of years became what we see and us. From ooze to mankind. 2 different things.

They are simply not different things. Evolution is adaptation (or at least adaptation is an important phenomenon, along with neutral change, etc etc). The definition in a popular language dictionary is not relevant to the science. It was the recognition that animals can change over time, that they can adapt to their environment, that helped lead to the 'big picture' of evolution, that very primitive organisms in the deep past have evolved over time into all the things we see today.


I live in Wisconsin and it's July. 6 months from now I will be wearing a winter coat. I have adapted my clothing to my surroundings, but I will still be a man.

Thats rather irrelevant, don't you think? Organisms don't put on jackets or anything like that, thats not what 'adaptation' means in evolution. Adaptation means the changing of a population of organisms from generation to generation.


Evolution and creation are opposed to each other. God tells us He didn't do things through evolution.

I agree tho, they're mutually exclusive, creationism says 'god made all the kinds of animals at once', evolution broadly says 'they're all interrelated and have come about over time'. Creationism says that animals are 'fited' to their environment because that's how god made them, evolution says that adaptation via natural selection has lead to this.
As far as what god tells us, thats largely dependant on an interpretation of the bible, and lots of people interpret it lots of different ways. The RCC, for example, is perfectly in line with the idea that evolution is a valid scientific concept, like helio-centrism and gravity. Most protestants are also pretty well accepting of evolution, and I don'tknow what the Orthodox line is on it tho, but I'd think that there is a diversity of opinion since the Orthodox church is decentralized.



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